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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / February 2005Psyllium - too much fiber?
First I thought - Psyllium is Pfantastic. Psilky. Psuper. Appears to be very helpful during lowcarbing. The carbcount seems to be Zero. I got a big jar at Trader Joes. I wonder however, if you can have too much fiber. There are pros and cons and the reading on it never ends. What are your personal experiences. Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall you and it's best to lay off of it or reduce it. I take 2 tsp per day with water. Does not sound much. I'd like some personal experiences if possible. Thanks a million. Steve I ate less and I exercised more. I lost weight. And you're still a dumbass. You're stalled because you eat too much.  SignatureYou take stupid to a new level. -- MFW > First I thought - Psyllium is Pfantastic. Psilky. Psuper. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I ate less and I exercised more. > I lost weight. And you're still a dumbass. > You're stalled because you eat too much. And you should go to the store. They had called for you. They're out of Stupid. Best Regards, Steve Tout est per·du fors l'hon·neur You're still fat. Try to think about it, even if it hurts. SignatureNow piss off. You cannot possibly be this stupid and remember to breathe. You must be trolling. -- Carmen >> You're stalled because you eat too much. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tout est per?du fors l'hon?neur > You're still fat. > > Try to think about it, even if it hurts. I'm losing the weight. But you'll remain you. Forever. How is that for a predicament. Eh? And if being a miserable piece of flotsam would hurt, you'd be screaming in pain. Bwaha. (Gosh I love to Troll a Troll. It should be an Olympic event!) Best Regards, Steve Tout est per·du fors l'hon·neur You're still fat. Try to think about it, even if it hurts. SignatureNow piss off. You cannot possibly be this stupid and remember to breathe. You must be trolling. -- Carmen >> You're still fat. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Tout est per?du fors l'hon?neur > You're still fat. > > Try to think about it, even if it hurts. Wuf. Wuf wuf. Wuf... Grrrrr Wuf... Best Regards, Steve Tout est per·du fors l'hon·neur "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message > Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall you and it's > best to lay off of it or reduce it. I take 2 tsp per day with water. Does > not sound much. ===================== I permanently stalled in the 5th month after losing 46 lbs. Fiber drinks made no difference either way. It does make you wonder about a *diet* where you must drink extra fiber to move your bowels. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== If you think a low carb diet is wrong, then why are you here? SignatureYou take stupid to a new level. -- MFW > "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message >> Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall you and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > where > you must drink extra fiber to move your bowels. > I permanently stalled in the 5th month after losing 46 lbs. Fiber drinks > made no difference either way. It does make you wonder about a *diet* where > you must drink extra fiber to move your bowels. Even when I was on a * normal diet * both my DR and Dietician told me to take in extra fiber (such as a drink or pill) I don't take fiber right now because I don't need it due to the fact that I eat enough veggies. but that may be because I am following a real LC plan why post here if all you do is bash the diet? Angie { I know she has always been like this I remember... its just sad and I'm half her age :o) Before its said I mean diet as in the foods consumed as a way of life > > I permanently stalled in the 5th month after losing 46 lbs. Fiber drinks > > made no difference either way. It does make you wonder about a *diet* [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Even when I was on a * normal diet * both my DR and Dietician told me to > take in extra fiber (such as a drink or pill) ## Why would you need extra fiber on a normal diet? I never did. All my food supplied it, from my morning cereal to the fruit and veggies I consumed. ??? > I don't take fiber right now because I don't need it due to the fact that I > eat enough veggies. > but that may be because I am following a real LC plan ## How much fiber is in your daily ration of veggies now? Many people can't consume enough lettuce, cucumbers, summer squash and such to get the fiber they need for normal bowel function. If they do the carbs start to add up. I know, I was on the diet for over 2 years. Getting enough fiber without the carbs was an ongoing problem. > why post here if all you do is bash the diet? ## Who's bashing it? I asked a simple question. No questions allowed here? > Angie { I know she has always been like this I remember... its just sad and > I'm half her age :o) ## LOL!! Maybe it's because OLDER people are wiser people and don't take all the BS they hear as gospel truths. Now then, I didn't say the diet was *no good*... I simply asked about a diet that required people to take extra fiber for normal bowel function. > Before its said I mean diet as in the foods consumed as a way of life SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== >> > I permanently stalled in the 5th month after losing 46 lbs. Fiber > drinks [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > do the carbs start to add up. I know, I was on the diet for over 2 > years. Getting enough fiber without the carbs was an ongoing problem. You're too stupid to do the diet. >> why post here if all you do is bash the diet? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >> Before its said I mean diet as in the foods consumed as a way of life > > ## How much fiber is in your daily ration of veggies now? Many > > people can't consume enough lettuce, cucumbers, summer squash and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You're too stupid to do the diet. ================== Your AVOIDANCE technique is noted. You obviously cannot answer the question. I REST MY CASE! :-) SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== >> > ## How much fiber is in your daily ration of veggies now? Many >> > people can't consume enough lettuce, cucumbers, summer squash and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Your AVOIDANCE technique is noted. You obviously cannot answer the > question. I REST MY CASE! :-) Avoidance? You nitwit. Who can say how much fiber is too much? You can rest your silly case til the cows come home, fool. > > You're too stupid to do the diet. > ================== > Your AVOIDANCE technique is noted. You obviously cannot answer the > question. I REST MY CASE! :-) That's funny coming from you. You completely avoided my question asking you what publishing year version of the Atkins book you had that mentioned Fat Fast but didn't specify it's 1000 calories. That came after you claimed to not be aware of the 1000 calorie limit in response to JC's question. For those of you playing the home version of the game this exchange can be found in the "I (newbie) need some advice" thread. You can't play fast and loose with the rules and then complain when you don't win the game. Carmen SignaturePlease note change in Reply To address carmensrt <at> gmail <dot> com Hotmail isn't working and is being abandoned >> > You're too stupid to do the diet. >> ================== [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >You can't play fast and loose with the rules and then complain when >you don't win the game. Carmen. Some of us play hard and tight with the rules, follow them to an absolute T, and don't win the game. You know lots of us in this position. Me. Aramanth. Debbie C. Myra, for a long time. Jenny the Bean, for a long time. What's left for us but to investigate which bits of the rules need to be tweaked? SignatureMogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat Hi, Carmen (to Wysong): > >You can't play fast and loose with the rules and then complain when > >you don't win the game. > Carmen. Some of us play hard and tight with the rules, follow them > to an absolute T, and don't win the game. You know lots of us in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > What's left for us but to investigate which bits of the rules need > to be tweaked? I'm going to tread carefully here, because there are some fine points to be made. First, Wysong doesn't qualify for the group of folks you're referring to. She did whatever she felt like. Okay, now for the oddballs who don't lose weight. There aren't many of you. A few found that they had a medical block that, when removed, sped up their metabolism and allowed weightloss to occur. For Bridget it was the celiac disease diagnosis, for Aramanth and Myra it was glucophage and a diabetes diagnosis. Once the problem was found the obstacle was either removed or lessened so the person's efforts made a difference. The key is finding the problem. If the problem is something that the doctor and patient don't know to look for the odds of stumbling on it by accident probably aren't that high. Let's say you have someone who follows all the right things every waking moment of the day but doesn't lose weight. They cannot understand why and are understandably upset. What if they don't realize that almost every night they get up and eat? They never wake up enough to remember the eating episodes, but it's happening. What if that person had sleep apnea that kept them in the not-awake-but-still-capable-of-getting-up stage of the sleep process more than most people? There are such people, and given some time I could come up with other scenarios where the person is making an honest good faith effort and won't lose until someone stumbles on the real reason. People with short term memory problems that they aren't aware of might not remember eating. Every year elderly patients get hospitalized for accidental overdoses when they don't remember taking their meds so they take more. I guess what I'm trying to say is that what needs to be done is not find out which rules need tweaking. What needs to be done is to find out what rule or rules are being inadvertently broken. Take care, Carmen SignaturePlease note change in Reply To address carmensrt <at> gmail <dot> com Hotmail isn't working and is being abandoned Each one of them didn't lose weight because they ate too much. Fact. SignatureEat less, exercise more. -- MFW -- > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > Take care, > Carmen Yeahbut. If, in order to lose weight you have to eat so little that you are ravenously hungry all the time, and possibly dizzy and weak and your hair starts falling out, or you have to exercise intensely for several hours a day, or both, then I'd bet there is a medical problem. I mean yes, we could all theoretically starve ourselves thin, but a healthy person with all systems working properly shouldn't have to. > Each one of them didn't lose weight because they ate too much. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >> What's left for us but to investigate which bits of the rules need > >> to be tweaked? SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. I've worked with people who claim to get dizzy when they don't eat. Uh huh. SignatureEat less, exercise more. -- MFW -- > Yeahbut. If, in order to lose weight you have to eat so little that you > are ravenously hungry all the time, and possibly dizzy and weak and your [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> >> What's left for us but to investigate which bits of the rules need >> >> to be tweaked? I get dizzy, but my hypothesis is that it's not eating less that makes me dizzy, it's the suddenness of the change. If I gradually reduce calories, I don't get dizzy, but if I do it abruptly I get dizzy, lightheaded, etc. Like this weekend with all the painting and moving and very little eating. Same thing happens with carb intake too, regardless of calories. Also, same thing happens in reverse with carbs. If I go a long time at very low carb levels, then eat something carby, I feel sick in a lot of ways, including being dizzy, even if the carby food was something I used to eat with no ill effects. This makes me think that maybe many people fail at eating less and exercising more because they try to do too much too soon, and it feels so awful they give up, and then have a negative association with the whole process. I know that was true for me for a long time, when I tried to go super low-calorie _and_ start overly ambitious exercise regimens all at the same time. My very first attempt at dieting was when I was 15, and I did Slimfast, only instead of having two shakes and a regular dinner, I skipped breakfast, had a shake for lunch, and a shake for dinner. And I'd go run in the afternoons until I couldn't breathe and I threw up. I did lose about 15 pounds in those two weeks, feeling awful the whole time, and when I fainted in class I gave it up and went back to real food. I remembered how sick and weak I felt during that time, and up until I started low carb and started exercising the right way, I just assumed that being miserable was the only way to lose weight. So, do you think the weight loss process _should_ make you feel that bad? That if you're not constantly starving you're eating too much, and if you're not short of breath or throwing up you're not exercising enough? > I've worked with people who claim to get dizzy when they don't eat. > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >> >> What's left for us but to investigate which bits of the rules need > >> >> to be tweaked? SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > I get dizzy, but my hypothesis is that it's not eating less that > makes me dizzy, it's the suddenness of the change. If I gradually [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > even if the carby food was something I used to eat with no ill > effects. I see no payoff in being dizzy. > This makes me think that maybe many people fail at eating less and > exercising more because they try to do too much too soon, and it > feels so awful they give up, and then have a negative association > with the whole process. Bingo! I know that was true for me for a long time, > when I tried to go super low-calorie _and_ start overly ambitious > exercise regimens all at the same time. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > So, do you think the weight loss process _should_ make you feel that > bad? I really enjoy going hungry now! >That if you're not constantly starving you're eating too much, Did you mean constantly hungry? > and if you're not short of breath or throwing up you're not > exercising enough? Good News! Neither of those are required, especially if you spend most of your day hungry! >> I've worked with people who claim to get dizzy when they don't eat. >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >> >> >> What's left for us but to investigate which bits of the rules >> >> >> need to be tweaked? > >That if you're not constantly starving you're eating too much, > > Did you mean constantly hungry? If, on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being "I could eat" and 10 being "I live in a third world country and haven't eaten anything but ants for months" I mean living at a hunger level between a 5 and an 8. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > > >That if you're not constantly starving you're eating too much, > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > in a third world country and haven't eaten anything but ants for months" I > mean living at a hunger level between a 5 and an 8. That's how I felt while trying and failing to stick with the ADA exchange plan I was given. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes >> >That if you're not constantly starving you're eating too much, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > live in a third world country and haven't eaten anything but ants for > months" I mean living at a hunger level between a 5 and an 8. Well, until you've done that I don't see how you can appreciate such a thing. But I think there is a world of difference betwen starving and being constantly hungry. If you have significant bodyfat and can eat some protein everyday, the likelihood of starving is practically nil. > So, do you think the weight loss process _should_ make you feel that bad? > That if you're not constantly starving you're eating too much, and if > you're not short of breath or throwing up you're not exercising enough? No, but if it does, so what? How about butching up a little and working through it? Do you end your life if you get the flu, or do you keep on, knowing that it'll get better? > > So, do you think the weight loss process _should_ make you feel that bad? > > That if you're not constantly starving you're eating too much, and if [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > through it? Do you end your life if you get the flu, or do you keep on, > knowing that it'll get better? Keep on, of course. But if you have to eat the minimal caloric level for survival and exercise every spare minute of the day to lose weight, then you'd have to continue that misery to maintain, so it would _never_ get better. I think that for at least 99.9% of the overweight population, there is a caloric level and an exercise level that will be comfortable enough to live with, yet still lead to weight loss. Some people though, especially impulsive people who want what they want when they want it, skip right past that balanced, comfortable level into anorectic or exercise bulimia territory, find after a few weeks they can't live like that, feel like failures, go back to old habits, and gain back any weight that may have been lost. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. When you've reached your goal, you can adopt a maintainable regimen. It's not rocket science. Butching up is good for you. SignatureMost people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW >> > So, do you think the weight loss process _should_ make you feel that >> > bad? [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > failures, go back to old habits, and gain back any weight that may have > been lost. Sure. To an extent. But this isn't a game of "Let's see how miserable I can make myself." If anything, it's the opposite: let's see how easy and fun I can make this. Low carb itself is a way of making weight loss easier, because I've stopped eating the foods that just make me hungrier, I've started eating foods that make me feel healthy, all the foods I eat taste good, I do exercise that is enjoyable and makes me feel energetic and strong instead of weak and tired. If you really want to butch up and push yourself, quit the weight training and low carb and instead do hours of cardio and eat plain rice cakes and dry toast. You'll lose weight and hate every second of it. > When you've reached your goal, you can adopt a maintainable regimen. It's > not rocket science. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > failures, go back to old habits, and gain back any weight that may have > > been lost. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > Sure. To an extent. But this isn't a game of "Let's see how > miserable I > can make myself." Why think of it like that? How about - hey, this ain't so bad...and I'll drop these 30 lbs in almost no time....and once I do, I'll be done with this weight loss sh.t. If anything, it's the opposite: let's see how easy > and > fun I can make this. Low carb itself is a way of making weight loss [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and low carb and instead do hours of cardio and eat plain rice cakes > and dry toast. You'll lose weight and hate every second of it. haha. There is a serious problem with that, though. One would lose too much muscle, IMO. >> When you've reached your goal, you can adopt a maintainable regimen. >> It's not rocket science. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> > like failures, go back to old habits, and gain back any weight >> > that may have been lost. This is a game of goals. This is a game of progress. How are those going for you? Butching up can help tremendously. SignatureMost people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW > Sure. To an extent. But this isn't a game of "Let's see how miserable I > can make myself." If anything, it's the opposite: let's see how easy and [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >> > failures, go back to old habits, and gain back any weight that may have >> > been lost. >> > So, do you think the weight loss process _should_ make you feel >> > that bad? That if you're not constantly starving you're eating too [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > weight, then you'd have to continue that misery to maintain, so it > would _never_ get better. See...you seem to be having a hard time here, Luna. Think about rate of weight loss and then stopping weight loss. What you do to maintain doesn't have to be the same as what you did to lose. They could be, but they don't have to be. So it might be painful to lose fast, but having done so should make it relatively easier to maintain. > I think that for at least 99.9% of the overweight population, there > is a caloric level and an exercise level that will be comfortable > enough to live with, yet still lead to weight loss. Yes. Some people > though, especially impulsive people who want what they want when they > want it, skip right past that balanced, comfortable level into > anorectic or exercise bulimia territory, No...one can establish a good rate of weightloss, even at your size, to avoid this extreme. Fear is guiding your thinking. find after a few weeks they > can't live like that, feel like failures, go back to old habits, and > gain back any weight that may have > been lost. Certainly possible, but it doesn't have to be that way. > >> > So, do you think the weight loss process _should_ make you feel > >> > that bad? That if you're not constantly starving you're eating too [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > have to be. So it might be painful to lose fast, but having done so should > make it relatively easier to maintain. Really? Let's say for the sake of argument I can't lose weight unless I eat no more than 1000 calories, with exercise at the maximum intensity and time commitment that I can stand. So, what would happen when I reach goal and cut back the exercise and/or increase calories to say, 1200? Logic says I would start to gain. > > I think that for at least 99.9% of the overweight population, there > > is a caloric level and an exercise level that will be comfortable [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > No...one can establish a good rate of weightloss, even at your size, to > avoid this extreme. Fear is guiding your thinking. I know! Actually, more accurately, fear _was_ guiding my thinking, because before low carb the only attempts I'd ever made at losing weight were too extreme for me to want to continue. With low carb, I can lose while eating enough to not feel _too_ hungry, just a little hungry. In fact, if I am very particular in my food choices and timing of meals, I don't have to be hungry at all. > find after a few weeks they > > can't live like that, feel like failures, go back to old habits, and > > gain back any weight that may have > > been lost. > > Certainly possible, but it doesn't have to be that way. Which is my point. I think eating less is great, but it can be taken to extremes. And, eating less doesn't have to mean being hungry. Learning _how_ to eat less in a way that works for your lifestyle is important too. Finding foods that satiate and last longer, or eating fewer calories in a day but spread out more, or eating a bigger breakfast, or cutting off eating a couple of hours before bed, are some ways to eat less without it sucking. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. >> >> > So, do you think the weight loss process _should_ make you feel >> >> > that bad? That if you're not constantly starving you're eating [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > calories to say, 1200? Logic > says I would start to gain. Until you specify a rate at which you lose, it makes no sense. The situation you describe it only true if you lose at an incredibly slow rate. But the situation you describe is so unlikely that I can't see it being worth any discussion. Has that ever been teh case for you? My point is you can decide you need to get some weight off. You can then, for a relatively short period of time (say several months), decide to hold calories to a low level and exercise a lot. You'll begin to lose at a fast rate. Once you lose a certain amount, you could then just decide to stop. AT that point, you can increase calories and even decrease exercise, and not necessarily gain the weight back. How much you can increase calories and decrease exercise will depend, of course. But it is NOT a given that you will automatically regain the weight if you cease to do what you were doing to achieve the weight loss. If you revert back to eating like you did before you started weight loss, and at the same time become completely inactive, then yes, you are virtually guaranteed to regain. >> > I think that for at least 99.9% of the overweight population, there >> > is a caloric level and an exercise level that will be comfortable [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > hungry. In fact, if I am very particular in my food choices and > timing of meals, I don't have to be hungry at all. I think you still habor some fears...perhaps not nearly as many as before. But you still seem to fear some slight hunger. >> find after a few weeks they >> > can't live like that, feel like failures, go back to old habits, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Which is my point. I think eating less is great, but it can be taken > to extremes. And, eating less doesn't have to mean being hungry. But hungry is not the end of the world.. > Learning _how_ to eat less in a way that works for your lifestyle is > important too. Finding foods that satiate and last longer, or eating > fewer calories in a day but spread out more, or eating a bigger > breakfast, or cutting off > eating a couple of hours before bed, are some ways to eat less > without it sucking. I don't disagree with that. What I'm saying if that you can decide to "suck it up" for a time, drop some pounds, then take a break without gaining any weight back, if you're careful. Then you can do it all again. Yes, there is some 'pain' involved, but it only lasts a relatively short time. Yes, that is definitely a sledgehammer approach, but sometimes it is what is called for. >Really? Let's say for the sake of argument I can't lose weight unless I >eat no more than 1000 calories, with exercise at the maximum intensity and >time commitment that I can stand. So, what would happen when I reach goal >and cut back the exercise and/or increase calories to say, 1200? Logic >says I would start to gain. Luna, there's one thing you've left out of your equation. When you're eating at your hypothetical 1000 cals/day and exercising as much as you can you are DELIBERATELY trying to take in FEWER calories than you expend. You're doing this in order to lose weight. Once you get to goal, you need to eat and exercise at a balance point such that you neither gain nor lose weight. For most people (there are a few exceptions) that's going to be around 12 calories for every pound of weight if you believe the many reports of people on this list over the years. Yes, you WILL regain weight IF you eat more calories than you expend through normal living and the exercise level you choose to keep. However, if you keep a close watch on your weight in maintenance you've got a good opportunity to cut back when you've gained a few and get back to your preferred weight before it becomes too high. Many people set a personal limit of 5 or 10 pounds (of course, if you know you regularly gain a certain amount near TOM you might want to ignore that as long as it dumps itself again at the regular time) and get back to strict eating for a month or so until they're back to their comfort zone. As always, it relies on your being honest with yourself. Aramanth >I get dizzy, but my hypothesis is that it's not eating less that makes me > dizzy, it's the suddenness of the change. If I gradually reduce calories, > I don't get dizzy, but if I do it abruptly I get dizzy, lightheaded, etc. > Like this weekend with all the painting and moving and very little eating. > Same thing happens with carb intake too, regardless of calories. Also, > same thing happens in reverse with carbs. The other possibility is dehydration. After superbowl Sunday, I tried to do a medicine ball class on Monday (something I've been doing for weeks). I had to leave half way through the class because I was so dizzy. That was about all of the hangover symptoms I experienced. After I drank a quart of water, I felt much better. We get alot of fluid from the food we eat. So when fasting or reducing actual food intake, it is important to up fluids. Kristen > >I get dizzy, but my hypothesis is that it's not eating less that makes me > > dizzy, it's the suddenness of the change. If I gradually reduce calories, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Kristen I never thought of that! Very true. You're so smart. :o) Thinking back on this weekend when I was doing all the painting and not stopping to eat, I realize I also didn't stop to drink water often enough either. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. >for Aramanth and Myra it was >glucophage and a diabetes diagnosis. Not entirely true. I had a *small* improvement with the glucophage prescription but it tailed off very quickly. It wasn't until an astute doctor put the pieces together and sent me for a Sleep Study that we realised that I had not slept well for over 30 years. Once the Apnoea issues were dealt with I found weight loss relatively easy. Even then, it only takes a few broken nights to put a halt to the weight loss again. Then it takes about a week of good sleep to get things moving once more - but it DOES move again, given the chance. It was a huge weight (as it were) off my shoulders when I realised that there was an explanation for why things didn't work for me. Some people have a tough time figuring out where their problems lie. It takes a lot of effort, a lot of strength of will to get there. Flip comments like "Well, obviously you didn't do it right" don't help and DO get my back up. Suggestions such as "Have you tried <insert useful tool here>" are better. A person who is frustrated from doing things 'right' might get an insight here which they won't from the 'blame the victim' stance of the first comment. All that being told "You're not doing it right" does is to get one either angry or despondent. I was so damned frustrated about my inability to lose weight that I seriously considered taking Laureen's path. I didn't do so mainly because the only surgery I could find on offer in my area is gastric banding and since I was already eating the kind of diet recommended post-op, just in smaller quantities that they suggested (at the time I was eating around 1200 cals/day and their suggested diet for the loss phase (about 4 months post-op) was around 1400 cals) so I didn't see how it would help. If any surgeon in my area had offered RNY I would probably have gone under the knife a year ago and damn the consequences. I was desperate enough that it looked like a good idea! I agree that Wysong doesn't fit the category of those of us who worked *damned* hard trying to find out what the issue was that blocked our personal path to a healthy weight. I still don't think that a flip comment helps or is appropriate. Aramanth Hello, <Snip> > I agree that Wysong doesn't fit the category of those of us who > worked *damned* hard trying to find out what the issue was that > blocked our > personal path to a healthy weight. I still don't think that a flip > comment helps or is appropriate. I don't think I made any flip comments in my post - if I'm wrong please point it out to me - and I tried extremely hard to make my point without hurting people's feelings. It looks/feels as if that was unsuccessful as far as you and Mogget go. I'm sorry. Take care, Carmen SignaturePlease note change in Reply To address carmensrt <at> gmail <dot> com Hotmail isn't working and is being abandoned Handy guide to modern science: If it's green or wriggles, it's biology. If it stinks, it's chemistry. If it doesn't work, it's physics. >Hello, ><Snip> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Take care, >Carmen Not you, Carmen. You're always working to help people out and I respect and admire you for that - especially given how much you were doing this while facing your own personal hell last year with your husband's illness. However, the first post I was responding to, before your excellent post of the differences between me, Myra, Jenny, Brigid and Mogget (among others who have found it tough going) and Wysong WAS a flip comment along the lines of "You must have done it wrong if it didn't work". THAT kind of flip comment is something that I've been dealing with for so long during my hell-stall and it gets my back up. When I responded to you I was trying to expand and clarify on why I was, sort-of, supporting Wysong. I guess I got carried away - and I'm sorry I caused you any worry over it. Aramanth Hello, Snip > When I responded to you I was trying to expand and clarify on why I > was, > sort-of, supporting Wysong. I guess I got carried away - and I'm > sorry I caused you any worry over it. Alrighty then, guess there was a misunderstanding on my part. Take care, Carmen SignaturePlease note change in Reply To address carmensrt <at> gmail <dot> com Hotmail isn't working and is being abandoned >Hello, ><Snip> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >point without hurting people's feelings. It looks/feels as if that >was unsuccessful as far as you and Mogget go. I'm sorry. <Baffled> I see no need for an apology, but I'll accept it anyway so that we can all move on. Thank you. What saddens me is that old friends like us should be treading on eggshells with each other. What's happened to this group? :-( SignatureMogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat Hello, Snip > What saddens me is that old friends like us should be treading on > eggshells with each other. What's happened to this group? :-( Maybe there's too many examples of what can happen when someone gets a mad-on lately. Just a theory. In the last month alone two people have gone postal on me. Take care, Carmen SignaturePlease note change in Reply To address carmensrt <at> gmail <dot> com Hotmail isn't working and is being abandoned Hi again, > Hello, > Snip [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Just a theory. In the last month alone two people have gone postal > on me. BTW, "going postal" is a reference to a spate of postal workers going berserk and shooting their co-workers some years back. It's analogous to "going off the deep end". Take care, Carmen SignaturePlease note change in Reply To address carmensrt <at> gmail <dot> com Hotmail isn't working and is being abandoned > Carmen. Some of us play hard and tight with the rules, follow them to > an absolute T, and don't win the game. You know lots of us in this [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What's left for us but to investigate which bits of the rules need to > be tweaked? But there has to be some finesse to the investigation. The above named folks may have asked for advice and followed it to the letter, only to find the same old numbers on the scale - but I don't recall any of you lashing out at the group for it. I don't think anyone here is on anyone's payroll as the personal advice lackey. It reminds me of someone I used to work with who would ask what to make for dinner. Make spaghetti - she had spaghetti last night. Make chili - it takes too long. Make burgers- she doesn't have any buns and doesn't feel like stopping at the store. So then I would tell her I didn't have any more ideas and she would lose her sh.t because I didn't help her plan her f.cking dinner. I mean - don't ask for free advice and then lose your mind because you didn't get the answer you want. Sometimes you just want to tell someone to make a grilled cheese sammy with a freaking can of green beans and wash it down with a valium or two and a bottle of vodka for christ-sakes. There's your dinner. That whole I-am-entitled-to-have-others-do-my-thinking-for-me-like-it's-their-goddam-job attitude that grates. Oh - and the ceaseless and endless repetitiveness. And the yelling. And the symbols in front of all the responses. I think that's all. SKW -- 214.5/212/160 > > I don't take fiber right now because I don't need it due to the fact that > I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > add up. I know, I was on the diet for over 2 years. Getting enough fiber > without the carbs was an ongoing problem. Here are my veggies for yesterday (I'm on a mashed cauliflower kick) fresh cauliflower 15.2 oz (thats almost 2 cups) fresh asparagus 1 cup no lettuce today but i made up for it with real veggies the day before Wendy's Chicken BLT salad with my own dressing/ no junk (thats at least 2 cups) snow peas 1.3 cups I don't see where you had such a hard time..... > > why post here if all you do is bash the diet? > > ## Who's bashing it? I asked a simple question. No questions allowed here? This is a Quote: >It does make you wonder about a *diet* > where > > you must drink extra fiber to move your bowels. This is not a real question. This would be bashing the diet. Wait were you talking about some other diet in the LC newsgroup? > > Angie { I know she has always been like this I remember... its just sad > and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > *no good*... I simply asked about a diet that required people to take extra > fiber for normal bowel function. What ever... I am wise enough to know that old people don't know it all just because they are old. Its all about life and how you live it, I know 25 year olds that know more then some 80 year olds. I do ask questions and I even (get this) READ to learn. Angie (I'm done) > > > I don't take fiber right now because I don't need it due to the fact > that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > add up. I know, I was on the diet for over 2 years. Getting enough fiber > > without the carbs was an ongoing problem. =============================================== > Here are my veggies for yesterday (I'm on a mashed cauliflower kick) > fresh cauliflower 15.2 oz (thats almost 2 cups) > fresh asparagus 1 cup > no lettuce today but i made up for it with real veggies ## You are 3 cups of veggies? I don't think I could hold 1/2 that amount. > the day before > Wendy's Chicken BLT salad with my own dressing/ no junk (thats at least 2 > cups) > snow peas 1.3 cups > > I don't see where you had such a hard time..... ## No way on earth could I consume that much (3 cups?). What was the fiber count of these veggies? > > > why post here if all you do is bash the diet? ## Oh, is asking questions "bashing?" Thank god our teachers in school didn't tell us that, huh? > This is a Quote: > > >It does make you wonder about a *diet* > > where > > > you must drink extra fiber to move your bowels. ## So where is th BASH? > This is not a real question. This would be bashing the diet. Wait were you > talking about some other diet in the LC newsgroup? ## So where is the BASH? Do you think everyone can consume 3 cups of veggies??? What was the fiber count of that many and what was the carb count? Some of us can't hold more than 3/4s to a cup of veggies. > > ## LOL!! Maybe it's because OLDER people are wiser people and don't take > > all the BS they hear as gospel truths. Now then, I didn't say the diet > was > > *no good*... I simply asked about a diet that required people to take > extra > > fiber for normal bowel function. > What ever... I am wise enough to know that old people don't know it all just > because they are old. ## Of course they don't - but they do usually have sense enough to QUESTION things. > Its all about life and how you live it, I know 25 year olds that know more > then some 80 year olds. I do ask questions and I even (get this) READ to > learn. ## As do we all.... > Angie (I'm done) ## So am I - I am also amazed your gut can hold 3 cups of veggies at a time..... ?!?!??!!!!??!? SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== >> > > I don't take fiber right now because I don't need it due to the >> > > fact [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > ## You are 3 cups of veggies? I don't think I could hold 1/2 that > amount. More of your lame excuses. >> the day before >> Wendy's Chicken BLT salad with my own dressing/ no junk (thats at [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > ## So am I - I am also amazed your gut can hold 3 cups of veggies at > a time..... ?!?!??!!!!??!? > >> > > I don't take fiber right now because I don't need it due to the > >> > > fact [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > More of your lame excuses. ===================== I'm not 300+ lbs so therefore cannot consume 3 cups of veggies. My stomach simply couldn't hold that much. I notice you carefully avoid mentioning the 46 lbs I lost those first 5 months. :-))) SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > stomach simply couldn't hold that much. I notice you carefully avoid > mentioning the 46 lbs I lost those first 5 months. :-))) One doesn't have to be 300+ lbs to eat 3 cups of veggies. You're just making excuses. What makes you think I avoided mentioning your 46 lbs? You're the one who wants to lose more, but seem to think you can't - and that you can't get enough fiber on LC. Geez. > > ===================== > > I'm not 300+ lbs so therefore cannot consume 3 cups of veggies. My > > stomach simply couldn't hold that much. I notice you carefully avoid > > mentioning the 46 lbs I lost those first 5 months. :-))) ============= > One doesn't have to be 300+ lbs to eat 3 cups of veggies. You're just > making excuses. ## I repeat. I cannot consume 3 cups of veggies at a meal and will not drag cooked food around with me all day. What makes you think I avoided mentioning your 46 lbs? ## Well, if I didn't know how to do low-carb I would not have lost that much in 5 months. > You're the one who wants to lose more, but seem to think you can't ## Where did I say I can't. I lost 5 lbs since 1/8. - and > that you can't get enough fiber on LC. Geez. ## Sure I could get enough fiber on LC, but then I wasn't low-carbing nor did I lose any weight. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ## I repeat. I cannot consume 3 cups of veggies at a meal and will > not drag cooked food around with me all day. Whatever. You're just too stupid to deal with. > What makes you think I avoided mentioning your 46 lbs? > > ## Well, if I didn't know how to do low-carb I would not have lost > that much in 5 months. Hey, some people just cut out a few things and they can lose some weight. But then you stalled. And once you couldn't figure out how to break it, you lack of skill because apparent. And you're showing it over and over here. >> You're the one who wants to lose more, but seem to think you can't > > ## Where did I say I can't. I lost 5 lbs since 1/8. You said over and over that you could on LC..and you claimed you could get enough fiber without getting too many carbs. What you're doing now can't be that much different than LCing, but you're too stupid to see that. > - and >> that you can't get enough fiber on LC. Geez. > > ## Sure I could get enough fiber on LC, but then I wasn't > low-carbing nor did I lose any weight. I rest my case. > > X-No-Archive: yes > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Whatever. You're just too stupid to deal with. ================= Yes, whatever, you're too stupid to know what happens to unrefrigerated food. Boy are you stupid.... SNIP your utter stupidity.... SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Yes, whatever, you're too stupid to know what happens to unrefrigerated > food. Boy are you stupid.... SNIP your utter stupidity.... Unrefrigerated? Who said that in order to eat 3 cups of veggies in one day, you have to cook it all at once and leave it out on the counter? Can't you eat some veggies at lunch, then some at dinner? A cup and a half of salad at lunch, and then a cup and a half of broccoli at dinner is too much food? I mean, 1.5 cups of a green leafy salad is less than 10 calories, less than 1g carbs, and 1.5 cups raw broccoli is 45 calories, less than 6g carbs. And, that broccoli cooks down, probably to less than a cup when cooked. I'm honestly wondering if you mean something different by "cup" than the rest of us do. But this whole thing about having to leave food out or drag it around with you if you can't eat 3 cups all at one sitting is so weird I worry about your mental health. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > Unrefrigerated? Who said that in order to eat 3 cups of veggies in one > day, you have to cook it all at once and leave it out on the counter? ## Who said leave it out on the counter? Can't > you eat some veggies at lunch, then some at dinner? ## When I'm home, yes. The days I'm not home I don't carry food with me. A cup and a half of > salad at lunch, ## I don't eat salad. I despise salad. And no, I couldn't eat more veggies than once a day to keep the carbs UNDER 25, max 30. I still had to figure in the carbs from other food I was also eating/drinking. and then a cup and a half of broccoli at dinner is too much > food? ## Yes. My stomach cannot hold that much broccoli plus meat. I mean, 1.5 cups of a green leafy salad is less than 10 calories, > less than 1g carbs, ## Eating salad to me is like you eating raw liver. It's also not filling and it's tasteless. I don't like vinegar so would eat it plain. Finally I reached the point where even the sight of salad turned my stomach. What you're describing is very much like a vegetarian diet - not a LC diet. and 1.5 cups raw broccoli is 45 calories, less than 6g > carbs. And, that broccoli cooks down, probably to less than a cup when > cooked. I'm honestly wondering if you mean something different by "cup" > than the rest of us do. ## I'm talking about the 8 oz. cup Americans use. 3/4 cup of cooked down veggies in the cup was all I could comfortably hold. But this whole thing about having to leave food > out or drag it around with you if you can't eat 3 cups all at one sitting > is so weird I worry about your mental health. ## I worry about YOUR mental health if you run home from work, or where ever you are to eat your cooked refrigerated cup of veggies. Sounds kind of,... er .... mentally ill to me. You must have endless free time or seldom leave your house. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Sounds kind of,... er .... mentally ill to me. You must have endless > free time or seldom leave your house. Major space-cadet. > I worry about YOUR mental health if you run home from work, or where > ever you are to eat your cooked refrigerated cup of veggies. Sounds kind > of,... er .... mentally ill to me. You must have endless free time or > seldom leave your house. Um, no. They are not already cooked. This is very simple: Buy vegetables. Put raw vegetables in the refrigerator. At dinner time, take raw vegetables out of refrigerator. Cook the raw vegetables. Eat the cooked vegetables. Here are some quotes of yours which indicate you do not understand some important points about vegetables and how to eat them, and some facts which contradict your statements: "I worry about YOUR mental health if you run home from work, or where ever you are to eat your cooked refrigerated cup of veggies." FACT 1: The vegetables CAN be stored RAW in the refrigerator, and cooked right before being eaten. "Yes, whatever, you're too stupid to know what happens to unrefrigerated food. Boy are you stupid.... SNIP your utter stupidity...." FACT 2: Any cooked vegetables that are left over can ALSO be stored in the refrigerator. "I cannot consume 3 cups of veggies at a meal and will not drag cooked food around with me all day." FACT 3: Some people DO bring their lunch with them to work, and/or may be given something called a "lunch break" and if they did not bring lunch with them, may go to a place called a "restaurant" where food, including vegetables, can be purchased with money. "And no, I couldn't eat more veggies than once a day to keep the carbs UNDER 25, max 30. still had to figure in the carbs from other food I was also eating/drinking." And BINGO! That is precisely why you could not lose weight with low-carb. You were eating and drinking things with significant carbohydrates, other than vegetables. What things were these? Bread? Sugar? Fruit juice? If you were filling up on that stuff, no wonder you couldn't eat 3 cups of vegetables in a day. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > > I worry about YOUR mental health if you run home from work, or where > > ever you are to eat your cooked refrigerated cup of veggies. Sounds kind [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Cook the raw vegetables. > Eat the cooked vegetables. =================================== NOTE: I said COOKED: I worry about YOUR mental health if you run home from work, or where ever you are to eat your COOKED refrigerated cup of COOKED veggies 3 times a day. I didn't say you ate them RAW. I repeat. You must have endless free time or seldom leave your house. Now get a grip because you're starting to post like a LUNA-TIC. :-) SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I repeat. You must have endless free time or seldom leave your house. Now > get a grip because you're starting to post like a LUNA-TIC. :-) I don't know where you get the idea I have to run home from work. First off, I do have a car, so I don't have to run, I can drive. Second, I sometimes also bring my lunch to work, depending on which job I go to. A vegetable stir-fry with chicken or beef, in a gladware container. I put it in the cooler at work, take it out and nuke it at dinner time. I think you snipped the most important part, where you said you can't eat enough vegetables to get enough fiber, and stay within your carb limit, because you have to allow for the carbs in the other stuff you're eating. If you're doing a low-carb diet, the only other stuff you should be eating that has carbs in it are eggs and cheese, and these both have less than 1g per serving. So, if you're eating only 3/4 a cup of veggies a day, which you said was your limit, yet you eat around 20g - 30g carbs a day, where are those carbs coming from? 40 eggs? 20 ounces of cheese? SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > If you're doing a low-carb diet, the only other stuff you should be eating > that has carbs in it are eggs and cheese, and these both have less than 1g > per serving. So, if you're eating only 3/4 a cup of veggies a day, which > you said was your limit, yet you eat around 20g - 30g carbs a day, where > are those carbs coming from? 40 eggs? 20 ounces of cheese? don't try to confuse her with logic. her head might explode. >> If you're doing a low-carb diet, the only other stuff you should be >> eating that has carbs in it are eggs and cheese, and these both have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > her head might explode. might? that's the problem...she's the great headless wonder. > The Queen of Cans and Jars <dhrravr@ohatzhapu.bet> typed: > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > might? that's the problem...she's the great headless wonder. she's really incredibly stupid. and i noticed that as things started to get a little more heated, she started posting x-no-archive. the whole thing would be funny if it wasn't so fraught with ignorance and desperation. > I think you snipped the most important part, where you said you can't eat > enough vegetables to get enough fiber, and stay within your carb limit, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > you said was your limit, yet you eat around 20g - 30g carbs a day, where > are those carbs coming from? 40 eggs? 20 ounces of cheese? ---------------- What difference does it make? No matter what I say you'll have some smartass reply. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > What difference does it make? No matter what I say you'll have some > smartass reply. The major difference between you and the rest of the population is: You call people mental because you think they eat far too much vegetables and - horror horror - they might even run home for lunch! Others call you mental because you think the USDA lie to us about carb and fibre counts in vegetables. > > X-No-Archive: yes > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > You call people mental because you think they eat far too much vegetables and - > horror horror - they might even run home for lunch! $$ Where did anyone call anyone MENTAL for eating vegetables? LOL!!! Are you hallucinating? I love vegetables and eat them every day. However, I'm not a vegetarian. > Others call you mental because you think the USDA lie to us about carb and fibre > counts in vegetables. $$ They LIE to you? Are the food packers also lying or wrong? Someone is LYING or WRONG when the amounts on my cans of veggies and frozen packages are not the SAME as what the USDA has on their site. Please learn to READ before you reply to messages. ;-) SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 165 / 140 lb ========================================== >>The major difference between you and the rest of the population is: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > you hallucinating? I love vegetables and eat them every day. However, I'm > not a vegetarian. Well, you did. You wrote: "I worry about YOUR mental health if you run home from work, or where ever you are to eat your cooked refrigerated cup of veggies. Sounds kind of,... er .... mentally ill to me. You must have endless free time or seldom leave your house." >> Others call you mental because you think the USDA lie to us about carb and >> fibre counts in vegetables. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > are not the SAME as what the USDA has on their site. Please learn to READ > before you reply to messages. ;-) Well continue to eat, or not eat, those canned and frozen veg then. Enjoy. > Do you think everyone can consume 3 cups of > veggies??? What was the fiber count of that many and what was the carb > count? Some of us can't hold more than 3/4s to a cup of veggies. I think maybe you should learn how to do that your self. After all if you give a man a fish..... Most people that have been doing LC for as long as you tend to know the average carb count on foods they should be eating all the time. I bet any money that Roger, Peter, Luna, Saffire, Carmen, Crafting Mom, JC, Queen of Cans and Jars or many of the others could tell you the approximate amount of carbs I took in. They have all been dong this a long time. > ## So am I - I am also amazed your gut can hold 3 cups of veggies at a > time..... ?!?!??!!!!??!? you mean in one day? So I take it you don't measure food 3 cups of fresh veggies in a day is not that much considering I don't eat junk and starch , most of my carbs come from veggies like they should. Ever measure 8 oz of fresh cauliflower? Well no if you did you would know its not that much. Angie Its like having a rock with arms in the NG. I know better then to reply to her. > > Do you think everyone can consume 3 cups of > > veggies??? What was the fiber count of that many and what was the carb > > count? Some of us can't hold more than 3/4s to a cup of veggies. ===================================== > I think maybe you should learn how to do that your self. After all if you > give a man a fish..... > Most people that have been doing LC for as long as you tend to know the > average carb count on foods they should be eating all the time. ## I don't remember the carb counts of *all* the veggies but if you ate 3 cups of broccoli at 8 grams carbs per cup that was 24 grams of carbs alone!!! You call that low carbing? 24 grams in one meal? To lose weight I had to spread that much out over the whole day. > I bet any money that Roger, Peter, Luna, Saffire, Carmen, Crafting Mom, JC, > Queen of Cans and Jars or many of the others could tell you the approximate > amount of carbs I took in. They have all been dong this a long time. ## So have I, until last November. How the hell do you think I dumped those 46 lbs? > > ## So am I - I am also amazed your gut can hold 3 cups of veggies at a > > time..... ?!?!??!!!!??!? > you mean in one day? ## I mean in one meal as I assume you didn't carry a lunch bag of cooked broccoli around with you all day. > So I take it you don't measure food 3 cups of fresh veggies in a day is not > that much considering I don't eat junk and starch , ## Nor did I eat junk and starch to lose the 46lbs in 5 months on low-carb. Yes, 3 cups would be too much for me. I was only 207 lbs when I started the diet in the early summer of 2001. most of my carbs come > from veggies like they should. Ever measure 8 oz of fresh cauliflower? Well > no if you did you would know its not that much. ## You think we don't have measuring cups here in the rural areas? I measured everything I ate and still do. > Angie > Its like having a rock with arms in the NG. I know better then to reply to > her. ## Then why do you? BTW, I assume by eating all these veggies you're losing the 1 to 2 1/2 lbs a week, week after week as I did? SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > ## I don't remember the carb counts of *all* the veggies but if you > ate 3 cups of broccoli at 8 grams carbs per cup that was 24 grams of > carbs alone!!! You call that low carbing? 24 grams in one meal? > To lose weight I had to spread that much out over the whole day. You obviously never knew the carb counts on anything. 1 cup of frozen cooked broccoli (weight 184g) has 4.3g carbs and 5.5g fiber. 1 cup fresh spinach cooked (weight 180g) has 2.5g carbs and 4.3g fiber. 1 cup cauliflower cooked (weight 124g) has 1.8g carbs and 3.3g fiber. Unless you're going to claim that you know better than the USDA. http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ >>> ## So am I - I am also amazed your gut can hold 3 cups of veggies >>> at a time..... ?!?!??!!!!??!? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ## I mean in one meal as I assume you didn't carry a lunch bag of > cooked broccoli around with you all day. You are truly mentally ill. Where did you get the idea that you had to eat all of your veggies in one meal? Or that to spread them out over the course of a day you have to carry them around with you? What a loon you are! <snipped the rest of the crap> SignatureJeri "Change is inevitable, except from vending machines (and Wysong)." > > ## I don't remember the carb counts of *all* the veggies but if you > > ate 3 cups of broccoli at 8 grams carbs per cup that was 24 grams of [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > <snipped the rest of the crap> Thank you Jeri I could not have said it better Angie > > ## I don't remember the carb counts of *all* the veggies but if you > > ate 3 cups of broccoli at 8 grams carbs per cup that was 24 grams of > > carbs alone!!! You call that low carbing? 24 grams in one meal? > > To lose weight I had to spread that much out over the whole day. > > You obviously never knew the carb counts on anything. $ You're obviously WRONG since I lost 46 lbs the first 5 months. :-))) > 1 cup of frozen cooked broccoli (weight 184g) has 4.3g carbs and 5.5g fiber. $ Not according to the book I have. Are we going to match books now? > 1 cup fresh spinach cooked (weight 180g) has 2.5g carbs and 4.3g fiber. $ Spinach - 1 cup 11 grams of carb. > 1 cup cauliflower cooked (weight 124g) has 1.8g carbs and 3.3g fiber. $ Cauliflower - 1 cup - 5 grms carbs etc.... what makes your book better and more accurate than my book? > Unless you're going to claim that you know better than the USDA. > http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ $ I see,... I guess Dr. Rachael Heller and Dr. Richard Heller just made up the above numbers.... > > ## I mean in one meal as I assume you didn't carry a lunch bag of > > cooked broccoli around with you all day. > You are truly mentally ill. Where did you get the idea that you had to eat > all of your veggies in one meal? $ You are truly mentally ill. Where did you get the idea everyone carts around cooked veggies, especially in summer when spoilage is a good possibility? You truly are mentally ill. Or that to spread them out over the course > of a day you have to carry them around with you? What a loon you are! $ What a loon you are! A real loon. Not everyone is home all day as you are. > <snipped the rest of the crap> < snip the rest of your mentally ill loony crap> SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > $ Not according to the book I have. Are we going to match books now? You had better. >> 1 cup fresh spinach cooked (weight 180g) has 2.5g carbs and 4.3g >> fiber. > > $ Spinach - 1 cup 11 grams of carb. Fitday - cooked, drained, boiled with salt - 6.75g of carb minus 4.32g of fiber. Net fiber = 2.43g per cup. >> 1 cup cauliflower cooked (weight 124g) has 1.8g carbs and 3.3g fiber. > > $ Cauliflower - 1 cup - 5 grms carbs etc.... what makes your book > better and more accurate than my book? The fact that you can't continue to lose and get adequate fiber. why can't you check some other books? >> Unless you're going to claim that you know better than the USDA. >> http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ > > $ I see,... I guess Dr. Rachael Heller and Dr. Richard Heller just > made up the above numbers.... Perhaps they got them wrong... >> > ## I mean in one meal as I assume you didn't carry a lunch bag of >> > cooked broccoli around with you all day. Why can't you get a lunch box like everyone else? Another excuse, right? >> You are truly mentally ill. Where did you get the idea that you had >> to eat all of your veggies in one meal? > > $ You are truly mentally ill. Where did you get the idea everyone > carts around cooked veggies, especially in summer when spoilage is a > good possibility? You truly are mentally ill. Take them around raw. > Or that to spread them out over the course >> of a day you have to carry them around with you? What a loon you are! > > $ What a loon you are! A real loon. Not everyone is home all day > as you are. Right. I take mine with me. You're just full of sh.t. >> <snipped the rest of the crap> > > < snip the rest of your mentally ill loony crap> > Right. I take mine with me. You're just full of sh.t. > >>><snipped the rest of the crap> Heh. She wouldn't be if she got enough fiber. Marsha/Ohio Wysong, I Googled a bit and I have a serious question. Don't you have enough problems already without stirring up more newsgroups? Isn't one psychotic bottom feeding stalker enough for you? You never know where the next one is. A sensible person would chill a bit. Carmen SignaturePlease note change in Reply To address carmensrt <at> gmail <dot> com Hotmail isn't working and is being abandoned > Wysong, > I Googled a bit and I have a serious question. Don't you have enough > problems already without stirring up more newsgroups? > Isn't one psychotic bottom feeding stalker enough for you? You never > know where the next one is. A sensible person would chill a bit. ========================== ??? SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > > Wysong, > > I Googled a bit and I have a serious question. Don't you have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ========================== > ??? Jabber Jaw, your admirer from NJ. He doesn't seem stable - when things get to the physical threat stage I think that's a fair assessment - yet you continue to not only poke him, you look for fights (and risk more psychos) on the other groups you frequent, this one included. I can't help but wonder what you get out of that behavior, so I asked. You don't want to address it. Message received. Carmen SignaturePlease note change in Reply To address carmensrt <at> gmail <dot> com Hotmail isn't working and is being abandoned > > > Wysong, > > > I Googled a bit and I have a serious question. Don't you have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Jabber Jaw, your admirer from NJ. He doesn't seem stable ## He isn't. Nothing new there. - when > things get to the physical threat stage I think that's a fair > assessment - yet you continue to not only poke him, ## You mean I should do what exactly? you look for > fights (and risk more psychos) on the other groups you frequent, this > one included. ## There are many, many people who do not get along with Jabriol. I was advised to report him when he threatened me and I did. I think you need to Google him. > I can't help but wonder what you get out of that behavior, so I asked. > You don't want to address it. Message received. ## What do you think I get out of it? I know what a dangerous cult that is and anyone I can discourage from joining I will - Jabber's threats not withstanding. Since it's OT here, why bring it here? What's next, the gardening NG? The Pond NG? The Dog and cat NGs? :-D SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > 1 cup of frozen cooked broccoli (weight 184g) has 4.3g carbs and 5.5g fiber. > 1 cup fresh spinach cooked (weight 180g) has 2.5g carbs and 4.3g fiber. > 1 cup cauliflower cooked (weight 124g) has 1.8g carbs and 3.3g fiber. > > Unless you're going to claim that you know better than the USDA. > http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ What am I missing? I checked the USDA Nutrient Database and found: Broccoli, cooked, boiled, drained, with salt 2 X 0.5 cup, chopped (156g) Carbohydrate, by difference 7.89g Fiber, total dietary 5.1g Broccoli, frozen, chopped, cooked, boiled, drained, with salt 1.00 X 1 cup (184g) Carbohydrate, by difference 9.84g Fiber, total dietary 5.5g Just as an example of my confusion, Mark 260/245/220 since: 18/01/2005 :: Jeri wrote: ::: 1 cup of frozen cooked broccoli (weight 184g) has 4.3g carbs and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] :: Carbohydrate, by difference 9.84g :: Fiber, total dietary 5.5g 9.84-5.5=4.34. Jeri was obviously providing net carbs, as that's the only way fiber can be greater than the carbs. USDA is providing total carbs, which includes fiber. net carbs are what you need to be concerned with as far as veggies go. > > 1 cup of frozen cooked broccoli (weight 184g) has 4.3g carbs and 5.5g fiber. > > 1 cup fresh spinach cooked (weight 180g) has 2.5g carbs and 4.3g fiber. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > 260/245/220 since: 18/01/2005 =========================== Looks like another one of those things where you can check 10 books or sources, and get 10 different answers. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Looks like another one of those things where you can check 10 books or > sources, and get 10 different answers. Typical. > Looks like another one of those things where you can check 10 books or > sources, and get 10 different answers. No one ever got fat from eating vegetables. It's what in, on, beside, and around the vegetables that makes people fat. If you 'can't' get enough fiber (what is 'enough'?) in the form of vegetables because your carb budget has already been spent, why can't you consider reducing you non-veggie carb intake? Would it be so terrible to eat only meat and vegetables for a while? I think I read that you're eating some amount (a lot? exclusively?) of canned vegetables, which will of course have different nutritional values (notably sodium, which will cause you to retain water and thus not lose weight) than fresh veggies. Cate > > Looks like another one of those things where you can check 10 books or > > sources, and get 10 different answers. ================= > No one ever got fat from eating vegetables. It's what in, on, beside, and > around the vegetables that makes people fat. ## Yes, I'm well aware of this, but still had to keep my carbs below 30g or lose nothing on LC. After the 5th month on LC, even 15g didn't work. And as much as I love veggies I'm not a vegetarian. Low-carb veggies are not filling. They're mostly water. I can eat a plate of a "veg medley," and still do because I love it, and I'm ravenous in an hour. > If you 'can't' get enough fiber (what is 'enough'?) in the form of > vegetables because your carb budget has already been spent, why can't you > consider reducing you non-veggie carb intake? Would it be so terrible to > eat only meat and vegetables for a while? ## You missed many of my posts. By the time I gave up on strict LC that's all I was eating and it got old after months and months..... I had already given up milk, cheese, nuts, coffee, cream, diet soda, even tea because of the caffeine ... there was nothing left to give up! Only a borderline starvation diet worked by then - of 1000 calories or less. The side effects were too severe so my NP suggested I switch to a better balanced diet with more variety. > I think I read that you're eating some amount (a lot? exclusively?) of > canned vegetables, ## Both canned and fresh. which will of course have different nutritional values > (notably sodium, which will cause you to retain water and thus not lose > weight) than fresh veggies. ## Sodium doesn't stop the burning to FAT tissue. When you exercise you must consume sodium as you know - from somewhere - or you could die. Even without exercise sodium is essential for life. They stressed that down at the gym I used to go to. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== >> > Looks like another one of those things where you can check 10 books or >> > sources, and get 10 different answers. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > with > more variety. Well, if carbs really do matter, then the "better balanced diet with more variety" means that you won't lose any weight. >> I think I read that you're eating some amount (a lot? exclusively?) of >> canned vegetables, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > at > the gym I used to go to. I think it comes down to calories, regardless of the diet you're on. If you can't lose weight at 1000 calories/day, I don't think it matters how many grams of carbs you're eating. Have you asked yourself why you want to lose this weight? Maybe your body is telling you not to lose it. I've toned down my goals because it's incredibly hard to get to where I'd like to be. I only have so much time to exercise and really don't like to starve myself. My goal is still weight loss, but I'm resigned to the fact that I may never be able to see my abs again (heck, never could see them even when I could see all the veins in my arms and women would complain at how gross my arms were). So, I either diet like mad and exercise like crazy while living on a diet of raw celery and carrots, or tone my goals down a bit. Moreover, let's say you did lose another 10 pounds or 15 pounds. How much happier would you be, especially if you have to eat like a bird to lose the weight? SignatureBob in CT > >> > Looks like another one of those things where you can check 10 books or > >> > sources, and get 10 different answers. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > with > > more variety. > Well, if carbs really do matter, then the "better balanced diet with more > variety" means that you won't lose any weight. ## WRONG! A diet with a lot less FATS in the way of bacon, steak, chops, eggs etc. makes the difference evidently since I am now losing almost a 1 lb a week. My calories are coming more from carbs than FATS now. > > ## Sodium doesn't stop the burning to FAT tissue. When you exercise you > > must consume sodium as you know - from somewhere - or you could die. > > Even > > without exercise sodium is essential for life. They stressed that down > > at > > the gym I used to go to. > I think it comes down to calories, regardless of the diet you're on. If > you can't lose weight at 1000 calories/day, I don't think it matters how > many grams of carbs you're eating. ## I *CAN* lose on 1000 c. a day if I want to chance serious health problems. The dizziness and heart palpitations were the biggest concern at 1000 or less calories a day. Have you asked yourself why you want > to lose this weight? Maybe your body is telling you not to lose it. I've > toned down my goals because it's incredibly hard to get to where I'd like > to be. I only have so much time to exercise and really don't like to > starve myself. ## I can relate to that. I don't like starving either but until I was bedridden my normal adult weight was somewhere between 115 and 125 - no matter what I ate. My goal is still weight loss, but I'm resigned to the fact > that I may never be able to see my abs again (heck, never could see them > even when I could see all the veins in my arms and women would complain at > how gross my arms were). ## That just might be your body type. I always had a nice figure, even at 125 lbs. Other women at 125 may not have a nice figure due to bone structure (too wide hips, short spine) or fat deposition in the wrong places (hips, thighs, midriff). As long as you're not flabby and jiggly you don't need 6-pack abs. :-) So, I either diet like mad and exercise like > crazy while living on a diet of raw celery and carrots, or tone my goals > down a bit. Moreover, let's say you did lose another 10 pounds or 15 > pounds. How much happier would you be, especially if you have to eat like > a bird to lose the weight? ## I think I would be a lot happier with myself because my clothes would fit better, I would look younger and less matronly.... food is not my biggest pleasure in life. I don't live to eat if you know what I mean. I never had a weight problem or issues with food. I know once I reach my normal weight, or slightly above it, I can easily maintain it. I'm not a snacker or junk food eater so smaller portions are ok with me. I don't have these severe cravings I read about here. > Bob in CT SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== >> > Looks like another one of those things where you can check 10 >> > books or sources, and get 10 different answers. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > plate of a "veg medley," and still do because I love it, and I'm > ravenous in an hour. Why did you not follow Atkins advice and increase carbs until you stop losing to find your CCLL? Now you are on a WW LC diet and eat more calories and more carbs. It sounds just like Atkins OWL to me. >> If you 'can't' get enough fiber (what is 'enough'?) in the form of >> vegetables because your carb budget has already been spent, why [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > calories or less. The side effects were too severe so my NP > suggested I switch to a better balanced diet with more variety. That was not Atkins... >> I think I read that you're eating some amount (a lot? exclusively?) >> of canned vegetables, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > die. Even without exercise sodium is essential for life. They > stressed that down at the gym I used to go to. > >> No one ever got fat from eating vegetables. It's what in, on, > >> beside, and around the vegetables that makes people fat. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > plate of a "veg medley," and still do because I love it, and I'm > > ravenous in an hour. ============================================== > Why did you not follow Atkins advice and increase carbs until you stop > losing to find your CCLL? ## You seem convinced everyone here was doing strict Atkins. If I didn't increase my carbs how would I have known I had to say under 30 max? Even 15g didn't work after the 5th month. Now you are on a WW LC diet and eat more calories > and more carbs. It sounds just like Atkins OWL to me. ## No. Because this diet is very *LOW FAT* as well, and that seems to be making the difference. You know all that SUMPTUOUS bacon, steak, sausages, gravy, cheese, butter and chops Atkins recommended... just too much FAT! I'm eating a lot less SUMPTUOUSLY now, have a lot more variety in my diet, and am thrilled to be losing even this 1 lb a week. :o) > > ## You missed many of my posts. By the time I gave up on strict LC > > that's all I was eating and it got old after months and months..... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > calories or less. The side effects were too severe so my NP > > suggested I switch to a better balanced diet with more variety. > That was not Atkins... ## Of course not, as I gave up everything on the advice I got HERE! According to posts HERE just about *everything* caused a stall, from diet soda to nuts. So evidently no one here at the time was on Atkins either. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > didn't increase my carbs how would I have known I had to say under 30 > max? Even 15g didn't work after the 5th month. The carb numbers don't matter beyond appetite control. My guess is you didn't allow enough time for weight loss to appear on the scale. > Now you are on a WW LC diet and eat more calories >> and more carbs. It sounds just like Atkins OWL to me. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > now, have a lot more variety in my diet, and am thrilled to be losing > even this 1 lb a week. :o) Didn't you say you were doing 1200 kcals per day now with greater numbers of carbs than before? if you were doing 1200 kcals or less before, and keeping carbs at 30g or less, then you could not have been eating all that much bacon, steak, sasuages, etc. You could not have been eating too much FAT. It is really hard to me to continue to be nice to you when you make such statements! >> > ## You missed many of my posts. By the time I gave up on strict >> > LC that's all I was eating and it got old after months and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > diet soda to nuts. So evidently no one here at the time was on > Atkins either. Eat too many nuts and you will not lose weight. And perhaps people weren't doing Atkins. But your very own comments reveal that you don't understand the basics of LC. Heck, you can't even figure out how to count the carbs in veggies... In fact, the WW program is about counting points. Since you can't handle counting carbs, and probaby not calories either, you had better stay with WW. It probably is a program that works for your body...er, well, your brain. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Didn't you say you were doing 1200 kcals per day now with greater numbers of > carbs than before? ## And a LOT LESS FAT. if you were doing 1200 kcals or less before, and keeping > carbs at 30g or less, then you could not have been eating all that much > bacon, steak, sasuages, etc. ## What a LOT is to one person is not a lot to another. You could not have been eating too much FAT. ## What? All that SUMPTUOUS bacon, steak, cheese, chicken with the skin wasn't fatty? Wow! That white stuff must have just looked like fat then.... ya know, artificial fat someone added. The same people who put the WRONG carb numbers on the cans, cartons and in the books. LOL!!! :-D > It is really hard to me to continue to be nice to you when you make such > statements! ## The TRUTH hurts for some reason? > >> That was not Atkins... > > ## Of course not, as I gave up everything on the advice I got HERE! > > According to posts HERE just about *everything* caused a stall, from > > diet soda to nuts. So evidently no one here at the time was on > > Atkins either. > Eat too many nuts and you will not lose weight. And perhaps people weren't > doing Atkins. But your very own comments reveal that you don't understand > the basics of LC. Heck, you can't even figure out how to count the carbs in > veggies... ## Heck all I went by were the CANS of veggies themselves, the packages of frozen veggies themselves - and books I have on Nutrition! > In fact, the WW program is about counting points. Since you can't handle > counting carbs, ## Why don't you report all the food companies for putting the WRONG carb counts on their products then? And the book Co's for publishing the WRONG carb counts in nutrition books? and probaby not calories either, you had better stay with > WW. It probably is a program that works for your body...er, well, your > brain. ## See above and let me know how your lawsuit for false carb counts on products goes. :-) SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > ## Why don't you report all the food companies for putting the WRONG carb > counts on their products then? And the book Co's for publishing the WRONG > carb counts in nutrition books? I don't mean to interrupt your and Roger's bitch-slap, but here's a serious question: Why are you the only one in this ng who gives such high carb counts for vegetables? Some of them are wildly different than the carb counts commonly cited in this ng. I'm just curious to know why you think that might be the case. Cate > > ## Why don't you report all the food companies for putting the WRONG carb > > counts on their products then? And the book Co's for publishing the WRONG > > carb counts in nutrition books? --------------------------------------------------------------- > I don't mean to interrupt your and Roger's bitch-slap, but here's a serious > question: > Why are you the only one in this ng who gives such high carb counts for > vegetables? ## I'm taking the numbers off the cans in by kitchen cabinet. I have no packages of frozen veggies on hand at the moment. You should ask them why the numbers are so high. I will even provide you the names of the companies so you can call them and ask - ok? Some of them are wildly different than the carb counts commonly > cited in this ng. ## Wildly? I took these figures right off the cans. > I'm just curious to know why you think that might be the case. ## Example: Allen's Green Beans 1 cup = 60 calories. Total Carb.10 gram. Fiber 4 gram. Fat 0, Sugars 2 gm - per cup of these beans. Hey, if you lose weight on the strict LC diet stay with it. It actually worked for me for 5 whole months. :-) A 2 year stall is more than most people would put up with..... and now I'm losing weight eating fruit, low-carb bread, macaroni, oatmeal etc. Isn't that great? :-)))) And to boot I have VARIETY back in my diet. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 165 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > ## See above and let me know how your lawsuit for false carb counts on > products goes. :-) You are one seriously screwed up person. In-f.cking-crebile. Here a tip to help you make your weight loss goal: chop your head off. You're not using it for much, anyway. Hi, > You are one seriously screwed up person. In-f.cking-crebile. Here > a tip to help you make your weight loss goal: chop your head off. > You're not > using it for much, anyway. Why Roger, you're usually so nice. What ever could the problem be? <BEG> Take care, Carmen PS Can I take it from your comment about perhaps ordering plans from Norm's site for the Bermuda table that you have some experience woodworking? If so I may ask to pick your brain about some projects I have planned. Basic stuff like wood selection, staining, stuff like that. SignaturePlease note change in Reply To address carmensrt <at> gmail <dot> com Hotmail isn't working and is being abandoned > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Why Roger, you're usually so nice. What ever could the problem be? > <BEG> ======================= He's NICE when no one questions him on anything, or disagrees with him. I'm not kissing his @$$ and buying into his bullsh*t. Some immature males can't handle that. I also produced some can goods that don't square with his rap. That's his problem! :-) It's also killing him that he has to restrict his diet and give up so many foods to lose weight and I don't...... it pushed him off the edge of civility. Typical of the average unpopular teenage boy. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 165 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > foods to lose weight and I don't...... it pushed him off the edge of > civility. Typical of the average unpopular teenage boy. More of your silly bullshit. Where are you getting this stuff? Weight loss for me goes strictly according to calories. I LC to control appetite and BG....and I'm very happy with what I'm eating...unlike you, you seem to be worshiping food. Now go ahead had chop your head off, since you're not using it. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > have planned. Basic stuff like wood selection, staining, stuff like > that. Sorry...I know basically nothing about woodworking...but I'd love to learn, too. Talk to DJ, perhaps. > > PS Can I take it from your comment about perhaps ordering plans from > > Norm's site for the Bermuda table that you have some experience [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Sorry...I know basically nothing about woodworking...but I'd love to learn, > too. Talk to DJ, perhaps. Ask on rec.woodworking or www.sawmillcreek.org for the location of your local woodworking club or guild (www.gnhw.org in NH). Then make a new friend who can sit down with you and talk about the subject for a couple hours :-) They also know where your local reputable wood sources are. As for my opinion of wood selection and staining: oak and don't ;-) Seriously, I have a very good book on wood finishes but it's 800 miles away so I can't check the title or author. It's the one that's "the" book on the subject, so a google news search should give you an obvious answer. As for wood selection, it depends on the purpose and design, and often the plans make suggestions anyway. > You are one seriously screwed up person. In-f.cking-crebile. Here a tip to > help you make your weight loss goal: chop your head off. You're not using > it for much, anyway. =================== I bet you still get into p*ssing contests in the school yard. LOL!!!! You are truly an immature jerk It's killing you that I am now eating all the things you can't, and I'm losing weight. Well don't *eat* your heart out over it. >>> FLUSH <<< SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 165 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > now eating all the things you can't, and I'm losing weight. Well > don't *eat* your heart out over it. What in the hell are you talking about, moron? Everything you're eating how you could have been eating before, had you had a clue and followed the plan for more than a minute. Also, quit bragging so much. You've dropped a mere 6 lbs...I'm sure your lost will mysteriously stop soon. <snip> >>> ## You missed many of my posts. By the time I gave up on strict LC >>> that's all I was eating and it got old after months and months..... >>> I had already given up milk, cheese, nuts, coffee, cream, diet soda, >>> even tea because of the caffeine ... there was nothing left to give >>> up! That's strange. If you were eating 25g carbs a day (as you claim repeatedly) yet gave up all the above and only ate 3/4 cup of veggies (as you've stated numerous times) it kind of makes me wonder just what you were eating to get those 25g of carbs. (BTW....that's just a figure of speech. I could care less what you were eating because if you told me it would be a lie anyways.) > ## Yes, I'm well aware of this, but still had to keep my carbs below > 30g or lose nothing on LC. After the 5th month on LC, even 15g didn't > work. And as much as I love veggies I'm not a vegetarian. Low-carb > veggies are not filling. They're mostly water. I can eat a plate of > a "veg medley," and still do because I love it, and I'm ravenous in an > hour. I wasn't talking about eating only vegetables, or filling up mostly on vegetables. 3/4 cup of veggies, from another of your posts, would give you, what, 2-10 carbs depending on what's in there? That means 15-23 carbs are coming from other foods that are high in carbs. Or too many calories from food that's not high in carbs. Cate > ## Yes, I'm well aware of this, but still had to keep my carbs below > 30g or lose nothing on LC. After the 5th month on LC, even 15g didn't > work. And as much as I love veggies I'm not a vegetarian. Low-carb > veggies are not filling. They're mostly water. I can eat a plate of > a "veg medley," and still do because I love it, and I'm ravenous in an > hour. Wait, wait. You must have really teeny tiny plates, since you said you can't fit more than 3/4 cup of veggies in your stomach, and people who can must be 300 pounds or have a black hole in their tummy. And, no one ever said you have to eat nothing but vegetables! Sheesh. What happens if you eat a cup of your vegetable medley as a side dish along with some steak or chicken? Then are you ravenous in an hour? Your complaint was that you can't eat enough vegetables to get enough fiber on low-carb. Now, you've changed your story. You CAN eat enough vegetables, they just aren't filling as a meal by themselves. Well duh, eat something else too. Sometimes, people do have more than one food item at a meal, you know. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > > ## Yes, I'm well aware of this, but still had to keep my carbs below > > 30g or lose nothing on LC. After the 5th month on LC, even 15g didn't > > work. And as much as I love veggies I'm not a vegetarian. Low-carb > > veggies are not filling. They're mostly water. I can eat a plate of > > a "veg medley," and still do because I love it, and I'm ravenous in an > > hour. ---------------------------------------------------------- > Wait, wait. You must have really teeny tiny plates, since you said you > can't fit more than 3/4 cup of veggies in your stomach, ## Wait! Wait! 3/4 cup is a lot for some people unless the whole meal is veggies. and people who can > must be 300 pounds or have a black hole in their tummy. ## Black hole? Seems that's your expression for YOUR tummy - not mine. :-) > And, no one ever said you have to eat nothing but vegetables! Sheesh. ## Exactly! That's why 3/4 cup of veggies was quite enough with all that SUMPTUOUS steak, roast pork, chicken etc. > What happens if you eat a cup of your vegetable medley as a side dish along > with some steak or chicken? Then are you ravenous in an hour? ## Would you be? Would you be comfortably full eating a cup of veggies? Is 1 cup the magic number for you? > Your complaint was that you can't eat enough vegetables to get enough fiber > on low-carb. ## Oh, I COULD get plenty by eating MOSTLY veggies with a lot less meat, more like a vegetarian diet and be hungry all the time. But then why LC? We can all just walk around with growling bellies. Now, you've changed your story. You CAN eat enough > vegetables, they just aren't filling as a meal by themselves. ## Well DUH,... of course I can eat 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 cups if that's all I eat - ya know, a vegetarian diet. LC is not a vegetarian diet. Is that what LC is becoming? A vegetarian diet now? What happened to all that SUMPTUOUS eating? Well duh, > eat something else too. Sometimes, people do have more than one food item > at a meal, you know. ## Well DUH again, some people have to eat LESS veggies to have the room for "something else" as well. So tell me, how is it I was doing the RIGHT thing those first 5 months, and then suddenly *wasn't* doing the RIGHT thing when the permanent plateau came along? I was doing the SAME THING! SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > So tell me, how is it I was doing the RIGHT thing > those first 5 months, and then suddenly *wasn't* doing the RIGHT thing > when the permanent plateau came along? I was doing the SAME THING! Physics. You got lighter. You needed fewer calories and less fat from calories. Cate > > So tell me, how is it I was doing the RIGHT thing > > those first 5 months, and then suddenly *wasn't* doing the RIGHT thing > > when the permanent plateau came along? I was doing the SAME THING! > > Physics. You got lighter. You needed fewer calories and less fat from > calories. ================== RIGHT! So I gave up the nuts, the cheese.... and still didn't lose weight. Then I gave up coffee and other caffeine drinks,... and still didn't lose any weight..... and now I"M LOSING WEIGHT and eating all the foods we all love!!! :-))) Hey, I'm even drinking coffee again! SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 165 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ## Wait! Wait! 3/4 cup is a lot for some people unless the whole meal > is veggies. I never said whether it was a LOT or not. You said you can eat a WHOLE PLATE of vegetables at once. You also said you CAN'T eat more than 3/4 a cup at once. So, either you have very small plates, or one of those statements was not true. > > And, no one ever said you have to eat nothing but vegetables! Sheesh. > > ## Exactly! That's why 3/4 cup of veggies was quite enough with all that > SUMPTUOUS steak, roast pork, chicken etc. All your SUMPTUOUS food you list there has NO carbs. So, how did you go over 20g of carbs eating ONLY 3/4 a cup of vegetables? > ## Well DUH again, some people have to eat LESS veggies to have the room for > "something else" as well. Fine, of course. But if you found that you didn't get anough fiber doing it that way, why not eat less meat and more vegetables? Oh, then you might have to cut out some of the bread or pasta or cake or whatever you were eating to keep your carb count low enough. > So tell me, how is it I was doing the RIGHT thing > those first 5 months, and then suddenly *wasn't* doing the RIGHT thing when > the permanent plateau came along? I was doing the SAME THING! Well, depends on what plan you were following. If you were doing Atkins, then you should NOT have been doing the SAME THING since you are supposed to increase carbs until you find your level. If you weren't doing Atkins, then you still should not be doing the same thing, because the lighter you are the lower your calories have to be in order to lose weight. Also, if you were following any sensible weight loss plan, you should be increasing exercise as well, since as your body gets stronger it needs higher intensity and/or longer workouts to get the same benefits. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > > news:lunachick-530D7C.11581003022005@news1.east.earthlink.net... > > ## Wait! Wait! 3/4 cup is a lot for some people unless the whole meal > > is veggies. > I never said whether it was a LOT or not. You said you can eat a WHOLE > PLATE of vegetables at once. You also said you CAN'T eat more than 3/4 a > cup at once. So, either you have very small plates, or one of those > statements was not true. ## I can eat a plate of veggies (about 1 1/2 cups) if veggies is all I eat - no meat in the meal. What's so difficult to understand about that? But then I'm hungry in no time. Veggies are mainly water. A plate of veggies isn't my idea of dinner. Once in awhile it's ok but not every night. I'm no vegetarian. > > ## Well DUH again, some people have to eat LESS veggies to have the room for > > "something else" as well. > Fine, of course. But if you found that you didn't get anough fiber doing > it that way, why not eat less meat and more vegetables? Oh, then you might > have to cut out some of the bread or pasta or cake or whatever you were > eating to keep your carb count low enough. ## Sorry you have your posters confused.... :-) I don't know who you're replying to now. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 165 / 140 lb ========================================== . <p><img src="http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/cr-9-04.jpg" ALIGN=left HSPACE=15> > > ## Yes, I'm well aware of this, but still had to keep my carbs below > > 30g or lose nothing on LC. After the 5th month on LC, even 15g didn't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > vegetables. 3/4 cup of veggies, from another of your posts, would give you, > what, 2-10 carbs depending on what's in there? ## Right. It varied. > That means 15-23 carbs are coming from other foods that are high in carbs. > Or too many calories from food that's not high in carbs. ## RIGHT! And those calories came from all those SUMPTUOUS steaks, chops, roasts, chicken with the skin, eggs.... if I was consuming too many carbs how the hell was I losing up to 2 1/2 lbs a week those first 5 months? No one addresses that. Then posters here claim the cans and cartons of veggies had the WRONG carb counts. How do they know? They don't even know the brands sold where I live. It's insane - what's with the people here? Why would anyone STOP a diet that was so effective? Had I kept losing even a lb a week I would have stayed on strict LC. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > ## RIGHT! And those calories came from all those SUMPTUOUS steaks, > chops, roasts, chicken with the skin, eggs.... if I was consuming too > many carbs how the hell was I losing up to 2 1/2 lbs a week those > first 5 months? No one addresses that. People in this ng address it *all the time.* In fact, longtime posters (like Roger) always weighs in when newbies show up asking if, after a certain time, calories matter. The answer: yes. As you get lighter, your calorie requirement decreases, and you have to count your calories and where they're coming from. So what's the problem? Where's the mystery? Cate >So what's the problem? Where's the mystery? > >Cate Cate, arguing with Wysong is just beating your head against a brick wall, as many of us have discovered over the years. She doesn't WANT to hear what you have to say. She wants you to say that she's Special and the Laws Of Nature don't apply to her. It's not true, of course, but she wants to hear that. There *are* circumstances that make weight loss difficult for people. I should know, having finally broken a 4 year stall last year when I was diagnosed with a medical condition (obstructive sleep apnoea) which left untreated leads to significant problems with insulin resistance. I spent a lot of time working on my eating plan, lots of time trying different things, different amounts and types of exercise, everything from very low carb and calorie counts to literally drinking oil before every meal, but until I got the sleep issues sorted out I found it nigh on impossible to lose. When my sleep is disturbed (other issues came into play later last year) I don't lose. When I have good sleep time for at least a week then I'll do fine. However, Wysong doesn't appear to have any such problems, doesn't want to believe she might have to stick to rules, all her 'stallbusting' attempts have consisted of half-a-day of sticking to something, followed by a major binge and long whinging sessions of "Nothing Works For Me Except Extreme Calorie Restriction And I Can't Do That For Long". Putting her in my Kill File was one of the best things I ever did for my peace of mind. Aramanth > Cate, arguing with Wysong is just beating your head against a brick > wall, You are of course right. I just wanted her to answer the discrepancies she's been posting, but I see that isn't going to happen no matter how I phrase it. She's not interested in facts--like how you can't get to 25 carbs a day eating only meat and 3/4 cup salad. > as many of us have discovered over the years. Didn't know the history was that long. Cate >> Cate, arguing with Wysong is just beating your head against a brick >> wall, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >phrase it. She's not interested in facts--like how you can't get to 25 >carbs a day eating only meat and 3/4 cup salad. She will never see it, because she doesn't want to see it. You and I know you can eat a heck of a lot of veggies while keeping your carbs below 25 BUT you have to be willing to give up things like breads (even LC types), pastas, cookies, potatoes, beets and other high-starch or sugar food items. You also have to be willing to get your a.s in gear and do some extra activity for the most part. >> as many of us have discovered over the years. > >Didn't know the history was that long. > >Cate A quick Google shows her complaining about how things 'no longer work for her' as early as October of 2001. A lot of us have tried to point out the fallacy in her posts over the years. Aramanth > She will never see it, because she doesn't want to see it. You and I > know you can eat a heck of a lot of veggies while keeping your carbs > below 25 BUT you have to be willing to give up things like breads > (even LC types), pastas, cookies, potatoes, beets and other > high-starch or sugar food items. =============================== Which of course I gave up or would not have lost those 46 lbs in 5 months, eh? But now I'm enjoying those foods once again AND losing weight. Doesn't that just thrill you to know YOU can do it too? You just have to TRY harder Aramanth. You too can be losing weight like I am instead of living on all those SUMPTUOUS plates of salad and cauliflower. :-) SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 165 / 140 lb ========================================== > > Cate, arguing with Wysong is just beating your head against a brick > > wall, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > phrase it. She's not interested in facts--like how you can't get to 25 > carbs a day eating only meat and 3/4 cup salad. $$ What salad? Where did I mention salad and the carb counts for salad? Are you also confusing your posters? I detest salad and gave it up ages ago. Let's not LIE to feel better about our own shortcomings. > > as many of us have discovered over the years. > Didn't know the history was that long. $$ Yes, Aramanth is still obese eating all that LC salad, broccoli, SUMPTUOUS steaks, roasts and bacon... maybe it's time she/he/it switched to something that worked. ;-) I'm sure you agree..... SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 165 / 140 lb ========================================== > >So what's the problem? Where's the mystery? > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that she's Special and the Laws Of Nature don't apply to her. It's > not true, of course, but she wants to hear that. ============= Which shows you missed so many of my posts you have no idea what you're talking about. I can only assume YOU have reached your goal weight on Atkins. I'm sure you enjoyed all those SUMPTUOUS plates of broccoli and cauliflower.... all those bowls of string beans and salad. Well,... good for you. I'm happy you're down to 130 lbs. :-))) SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 165 / 140 lb ========================================== > > ## RIGHT! And those calories came from all those SUMPTUOUS steaks, > > chops, roasts, chicken with the skin, eggs.... if I was consuming too > > many carbs how the hell was I losing up to 2 1/2 lbs a week those > > first 5 months? No one addresses that. > People in this ng address it *all the time.* In fact, longtime posters > (like Roger) always weighs in when newbies show up asking if, after a > certain time, calories matter. ## And when anyone says they do they're attacked as I am now? Of course calories matter, but to lose on LC I had to drop them too low and eat such a restricted diet the side-effects weren't worth it. Why do I have to keep repeating what I already posted? > The answer: yes. As you get lighter, your calorie requirement decreases, > and you have to count your calories and where they're coming from. > So what's the problem? Where's the mystery? ## What mystery? It's been covered several times already..... ??? > Cate SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 165 / 140 lb ========================================== >> People in this ng address it *all the time.* In fact, longtime >> posters (like Roger) always weighs in when newbies show up asking [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and eat such a restricted diet the side-effects weren't worth it. > Why do I have to keep repeating what I already posted? <snip> You're being attacked because this is alt.support.diet.low-carb and you are nothing but a troll in here. Do you see anyone from here over in the Weightwatchers group telling everyone who has the slightest glitch in weightloss that weightwatchers didn't work for them and they should go low carb? Of course not. Because the rest of us understand that everyone is different and what works for one doesn't work for everyone. We have firmly established that low carb no longer works for you for whatever reason. So, go away. No one needs you saying that because it didn't work for you it won't work for them or it will stop working for them. Unless of course you think we're all too stupid to decide for ourselves what's best. Do you really think you're the only person in the world who has had a diet stop working and decided to make a change? The only difference between you and everyone else in here is that you wallow in your failure and enjoy spreading that doom and gloom around while the rest of us take it in stride and tweak whatever has to be tweaked and get on with life. I have an idea that will make all of us happy. Why don't you start a newsgroup called alt.support.wysongs-diet-of-the-day. That way you and whoever wants to join you can slam whatever diet you want to your heart's content and anyone who is really interested in your opinions can go there and read them. >You're being attacked because this is alt.support.diet.low-carb and you are >nothing but a troll in here. Actually she *is* a human being just as you are. >We have firmly established that low carb no longer works for you for >whatever reason. So, go away. Who are you? The newsgroup police. She has as much right to be here as you do or even me for that matter. You do not like her then killfile her which is what I will be doing to you once I hit send. >No one needs you saying that because it didn't >work for you it won't work for them or it will stop working for them. Unless >of course you think we're all too stupid to decide for ourselves what's >best. Some of you might be. <g> > Do you really think you're the only person in the world who has had a >diet stop working and decided to make a change? The only difference between >you and everyone else in here is that you wallow in your failure and enjoy >spreading that doom and gloom around while the rest of us take it in stride >and tweak whatever has to be tweaked and get on with life. She seems to be doing great with what I am reading but I do not blame her for feeling defensive at times when the *itches come out to criticize. >I have an idea that will make all of us happy. Why don't you start a >newsgroup called alt.support.wysongs-diet-of-the-day. That way you and >whoever wants to join you can slam whatever diet you want to your heart's >content and anyone who is really interested in your opinions can go there >and read them. Why don't *you* leave and quit your whining? Oh yeah....*plonk*. LOL!! ************************************** I'm *not* a bad person. I simply made the mistake of getting involved with a *jack*ss*. Is it ironic that he lives on a farm? ************************************** >> You're being attacked because this is alt.support.diet.low-carb and >> you are nothing but a troll in here. > > Actually she *is* a human being just as you are. A human being who has the need to troll newsgroups. And speaking of trolls......do the people over in the weightwatchers group who have taken a lot of time giving you so much support know that you are really doing Body For Life? <snip> > Why don't *you* leave and quit your whining? Because *I'm* actually doing low carb and belong here. > Oh yeah....*plonk*. LOL!! At least my email address doesn't change every other week so I'll stay plonked. That is if you really did which I doubt. > ************************************** > I'm *not* a bad person. I simply made the > mistake of getting involved with a *jack*ss*. > Is it ironic that he lives on a farm? > ************************************** You poor woman. It's been YEARS and you're still beating that horse huh? You should get some serious help. Oh, you've been plonked by Jaime, you must be making sense! In news:loc9019bccp1qmatauilpefme2rvg54kpg@4ax.com, jaime <missjaime@canada.com> stated | Oh yeah....*plonk*. LOL!! > Then posters here claim the cans and cartons of veggies > had the WRONG carb counts. How do they know? They don't even know the > brands sold where I live. It's insane - what's with the people here? Um, could it be that out of thousands of posts by hundreds of people, no one has EVER listed carb counts for vegetables even CLOSE to as high as yours? I see several possibilities for the discrepancy. Either you're buying some product that looks like canned vegetables but really it has some kind of carby sauce or added sugar in it, or you're misreading the label, or it was a typo, or you're crazy, or you're an idiot. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > > Then posters here claim the cans and cartons of veggies > > had the WRONG carb counts. How do they know? They don't even know the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > one has EVER listed carb counts for vegetables even CLOSE to as high as > yours? $$ I took them right off the can and from the Dr. Phil book. Why bitch to me? Bitch to them - the beans were Allen's Green beans. I see several possibilities for the discrepancy. Either you're > buying some product that looks like canned vegetables but really it has > some kind of carby sauce or added sugar in it, $$ The can says Italian green beans, water, salt. or you're misreading the > label, or it was a typo, or you're crazy, or you're an idiot. $$ And this kind of immature statement is going to make the can and book correct? What's your point? If you can make such claims without first checking the book and can of beans then "you're" crazy, or "you're" an idiot. Which is it? Or are you eating your heart out living on plates of SUMPTUOUS cauliflower and salads while I'm eating a large variety of foods and LOSING WEIGHT? :0) SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 165 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > living on plates of SUMPTUOUS cauliflower and salads while I'm eating > a large variety of foods and LOSING WEIGHT? :0) Beans aren't the only veggie around... snip > $$ And this kind of immature statement is going to make the can and book > correct? What's your point? If you can make such claims without first > checking the book and can of beans then "you're" crazy, or "you're" an > idiot. Which is it? Or are you eating your heart out living on plates of > SUMPTUOUS cauliflower and salads while I'm eating a large variety of foods > and LOSING WEIGHT? :0) Why do you keep yelling the word *sumptuous* at me? It is giving me a headache. You have screamed it in every single post you wrote. Did you get one of those cool word-a-day calendars for Christmas? Maybe next year Santa will give you a thesaurus. Just wonderin' SKW Signature214.5/213.5/160 > snip > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > SKW ha ha! I think Wysong can't spell sumptuous, which is why she cut and paste it into all of her posts. But since she copied it in uppercase and she's too stupid to retype it in lowercase, we're stuck with her using the word sumptuous in uppercase. This is the only explanation I can think of... Poor us. Poor ASDL-Cers. > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > SUMPTUOUS cauliflower and salads while I'm eating a large variety of foods > and LOSING WEIGHT? :0) I was just listing possibilities, never said you were crazy or an idiot. The large carb numbers you listed weren't just for green beans, you also said broccoli had 8g carbs per cup. Which, um, is not correct. It's around 6g _before_ you even subtract fiber. Fiber's around 2g per cup, so broccoli's got about 4g net carbs per cup, raw. Half what you said it had. If you cook that cup of raw broccoli, then you end up with what, half a cup? Anyway, according to you, vegetables are too filling, and not filling enough, all at the same time. According to you, you can eat more than 20g worth of low-carb vegetables, yet no more than 3/4 a cup of them. According to you, you stayed on the same plan for 2 years with no weight loss. I'm glad you finally found something that works for you, but you did come in here pretty combative about low-carb dieting, apparently resentful that it stopped working for you. It's ok. And yes, you are a little crazy. Anyone who can stick with the same plan for 2 years with no results has to have a bit of madness in them. And when the scale stops moving, it can be enough to drive a person up the wall. So you're a little crazy. So what? Just accept it. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. >Anyone who can stick with the same plan for 2 years with no results has to >have a bit of madness in them. And when the scale stops moving, it can be >enough to drive a person up the wall. So you're a little crazy. So what? Either that or VERY very determined to find out what ELSE is going wrong. I stuck to LC (tweaking with stallbreakers left, right and centre) for 4 years before finally discovering that it was an undiagnosed medical condition that was the problem. Treated that and things worked much better. Started losing without needing to change any other factors. I kept telling myself during the long stall that I was doing this primarily for health reasons (since my kidney issues cleared up almost immediatly with LC) with any weight loss just a bonus. It wasn't true, not really, but I did (and do) feel MUCH better on LC than I do on any other Plan I've ever tried. Aramanth : >Anyone who can stick with the same plan for 2 years with no results has to : >have a bit of madness in them. And when the scale stops moving, it can be [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] : : Aramanth aramanth, has anyone told you lately what an inspiration to ASD-LC you are? rosie >aramanth, >has anyone told you lately what an inspiration to ASD-LC you are? > >rosie Thanks, Rosie. I went through a long period when I wondered why I even bothered to be here - I wasn't losing, couldn't offer any insights that seemed valuable in the light of my inability to lose. I'm starting to feel that I have something to offer again. Aramanth It wasn't a medical condition the made you not lose weight, it was eating too much and not doing enough exercise. SignatureYou take stupid to a new level. -- MFW >>Anyone who can stick with the same plan for 2 years with no results has to >>have a bit of madness in them. And when the scale stops moving, it can be [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Aramanth > Thanks, that looks easy. Don't you have to melt chocolate in a special > pot > though? And if you use Splenda, the kind that doesn't come in packets, > instead of Equal, how much do you use? Also, sour cream? Really? Sounds > like that would be . . . gross. >> 1 cup of frozen cooked broccoli (weight 184g) has 4.3g carbs and >> 5.5g fiber. 1 cup fresh spinach cooked (weight 180g) has 2.5g carbs [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > 260/245/220 since: 18/01/2005 Roger is correct. The USDA site doesn't subtract out the fiber from the total carb counts. Since fiber isn't digested it can be subtracted. So, the countable (net) carbs for the broccoli in question is 4.3g. > ## How much fiber is in your daily ration of veggies now? Many people > can't consume enough lettuce, cucumbers, summer squash and such to get the > fiber they need for normal bowel function. If they do the carbs start to > add up. I know, I was on the diet for over 2 years. Getting enough fiber > without the carbs was an ongoing problem. Green beans, asparagus, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, mushrooms, at least 1/3 of the carbs are fiber. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes >> ## How much fiber is in your daily ration of veggies now? Many people >> can't consume enough lettuce, cucumbers, summer squash and such to get [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > least > 1/3 of the carbs are fiber. Getting enough fiber has never been a problem for me. SignatureBob in CT > >> ## How much fiber is in your daily ration of veggies now? Many people > >> can't consume enough lettuce, cucumbers, summer squash and such to get [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Getting enough fiber has never been a problem for me. ========================== That's great Bob. Speaking for myself. To get enough fiber I would go over 25 carbs a day and lose nothing. I'm not talking bread and potatoes. I'm talking about a large assortment of veggies, which I love. *You* may lose with a much higher carb intake. Some people can eat as many as 50 g's a day carbs, and still lose weight. I mentioned the other two women who started shortly after I did, when they saw the great success I was having on LC. One had some trouble with diarrhea on and off, and some constipation. The other women had constant problems with it. Like myself, if she went over 25 to 30 g's of carbs a day for a few days, she lost nothing. One size doesn't fit all (metabolisms). Since Atkins mentions this in at least one of his books it must be a problem for some people. It's also mentioned here and asked about here. I remember seeing the posts. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > books it must be a problem for some people. It's also mentioned here and > asked about here. I remember seeing the posts. I just don't think that carbs matter as much as calories (on this account, I think Atkins got it wrong). Test it on yourself -- count calories. Keep at the same activity level and calories for one week with 30 grams of carbs per day. Try another week with the same calorie level but with 50 (or 60) grams of carbs per day. Report back. SignatureBob in CT One size > > doesn't > > fit all (metabolisms). Since Atkins mentions this in at least one of his > > books it must be a problem for some people. It's also mentioned here and > > asked about here. I remember seeing the posts. ============================ > I just don't think that carbs matter as much as calories (on this account, > I think Atkins got it wrong). ** I'm starting to believe you're right. It is calories and not the carbs. But I do believe there is a difference in carb calories and fat calories (at least for some of us). To lose weight on mainly LCing I have to cut the calories to below 1000 a day. With carbs up to 1200 a day and I'll will lose weight - and without the side effects of headaches etc.. If all these people went on a normal diet and simply practiced "portion control" they would lose weight. But that doesn't seem to work for the devout low-carbers. They cannot have one small potato, they must have a large one floating in butter or even two potatoes - I saw what my obese family members and friends ate. If you point this out to many obese people they get highly offended. There is really no magic in a LC diet, it just gets them off the donuts, the plates of macaroni, the 1/2 of a pecan pie, the pound bag of Chips and cuts their calories drastically. Had I practiced portion-control when I was bedridden I probably would not have put on those 80 pounds. Test it on yourself -- count calories. > Keep at the same activity level and calories for one week with 30 grams of > carbs per day. Try another week with the same calorie level but with 50 > (or 60) grams of carbs per day. Report back. ** I'm not going THAT route again. I'm enjoying a more varied diet now and I am losing weight. Right now I average around 1200 calories a day - give or take a few here and there. > Bob in CT SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > bag of Chips and cuts their calories drastically. Had I practiced > portion-control when I was bedridden I probably would not have put on those > 80 pounds. It's not like you could get up and run to the fridge 6 times a day for a small snack. You probably had to eat what you were brought when you were brought it. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes > > bag of Chips and cuts their calories drastically. Had I practiced > > portion-control when I was bedridden I probably would not have put on > those > > 80 pounds. ======== > It's not like you could get up and run to the fridge 6 times a day for a > small snack. You probably had to eat what you were brought when you were > brought it. ======== This is true. And since I never had to watch what I ate, I didn't think about drastically cutting the amount. :*( SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > constant problems with it. Like myself, if she went over 25 to 30 > g's of carbs a day for a few days, she lost nothing. So what if you don't lose for a few days? Geez...another example of you amazing lack of skill. One size > doesn't fit all (metabolisms). Since Atkins mentions this in at > least one of his books it must be a problem for some people. It's > also mentioned here and asked about here. I remember seeing the > posts. > In news:jdSdnaKQ9oJVG2PcRVn-iA@heartoftn.net, > > So what if you don't lose for a few days? Geez...another example of you > amazing lack of skill. ===================== Lack of skill? LOL!!!! You have a SERIOUS lack of intelligence and reading comprehension. After a few days she would simply STALL/plateau until she dropped the carbs below 25 to 30 a day. What has that got to do with anyone's skill level? :-D SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > > ## How much fiber is in your daily ration of veggies now? Many people > > can't consume enough lettuce, cucumbers, summer squash and such to get the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Green beans, asparagus, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, mushrooms, at least > 1/3 of the carbs are fiber. ====================== So how many carbs a day do YOU consume to lose at least 1 to 2 lbs a week? I just lost 5 lbs for example and didn't count carbs, just stayed at around 1200 calories a day and exercised almost every day. Calories do count no matter how many carbs you consume. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > 1200 calories a day and exercised almost every day. Calories do count no > matter how many carbs you consume. I don't have any idea how much weight I've lost all together because I don't own a scale, but I'm not following one of the diets, either. I lost 32lbs in about 4? months as of the last week in Oct. according to the dr's scale. I'm controlling carbs for diabetes only, and I know I'm eating way more than 1200 calories. I don't think I can eat anywhere near the carbs I was eating before without all the junk food I was eating all day. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes > I don't have any idea how much weight I've lost all together because I don't > own a scale, but I'm not following one of the diets, either. I lost 32lbs > in about 4½ months as of the last week in Oct. according to the dr's scale. ## Well, that's great! Whatever works for you. :o) > I'm controlling carbs for diabetes only, and I know I'm eating way more than > 1200 calories. I don't think I can eat anywhere near the carbs I was > eating before without all the junk food I was eating all day. ## I understand. Please keep in mind though that not everyone got obese on junk foods. And there are those of us who can't go over a certain number of calories a day, or we wont lose anything. Experimenting will let you know many that is. At some point in your weight loss you will probably have to drop the number of calories you eat each day to continue losing the weight. BTW, you can get cheap scales at Wal-Mart that go up to 300 lbs - for about $20. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > many that is. At some point in your weight loss you will probably have to > drop the number of calories you eat each day to continue losing the weight. > BTW, you can get cheap scales at Wal-Mart that go up to 300 lbs - for about > $20. I don't really care enough to buy one. I just wait for a drs appt and get on hers, lord knows I've already bought the thing several times over. The only measurement that matters to me is the one on my BG meter. I can tell I'm losing weight, though, because everything is getting too big, watchband, shoes, gloves, bras, especially bras. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes > > many that is. At some point in your weight loss you will probably have to > > drop the number of calories you eat each day to continue losing the > weight. > > BTW, you can get cheap scales at Wal-Mart that go up to 300 lbs - for > about > > $20. ========================= > I don't really care enough to buy one. I just wait for a drs appt and get > on hers, lord knows I've already bought the thing several times over. $ I know what you mean. I have to see my NP several times a year because of my thyroid meds. The > only measurement that matters to me is the one on my BG meter. I can tell > I'm losing weight, though, because everything is getting too big, watchband, > shoes, gloves, bras, especially bras. $ Those are excellent signs. Soon you'll be out buying a smaller size. :o) I gave all my size 16s and 18s to the Salvation Army. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > I can tell > I'm losing weight, though, because everything is getting too big, > watchband, > shoes, gloves, bras, especially bras. Don't! I think I'm on my 3rd lot of bras since I started losing, and I need another lot - and an exercise bra... Why do they cost so much?! Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.7/<6 Weight 95/78/72Kg 1g Metformin, 87.5ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004 > > I can tell > > I'm losing weight, though, because everything is getting too big, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Nicky. ===================== You lucky ladies! I was 207 when I started dieting in 2001, and at 166 lbs my bra size hasn't changed, although I went down 2 dress sizes. :-( SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > stayed at around 1200 calories a day and exercised almost every day. > Calories do count no matter how many carbs you consume. So, if you didn't count carbs, it is likely you got more than 25g per say, yet you still lose 5 lbs while staying at around 1200 kcals. So, what have you been saying in these other posts? Amazing. > "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message >> Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > drinks made no difference either way. It does make you wonder about > a *diet* where you must drink extra fiber to move your bowels. You're stupid. > > "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message > >> Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall you [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You're stupid. ============ No, you're stupid. The WISE person asks questions. The stupid person *YOU,* doesn't even think or question anything. :-D I see you were unable to answer the question. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > > Wysong *~ <P@P> typed: > > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ============ > No, you're stupid. people who follow a low carb plan correctly have no problem getting enough fiber. whose fault is it that you weren't bright enough to figure that out? oh, and by the way - your formatting is fugly. do us all a favor and stop posting so we don't have too look at it, mmmkay? > > > Wysong *~ <P@P> typed: > > > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > enough fiber. whose fault is it that you weren't bright enough to > figure that out? $$ Many are getting their FIBER from things like fiber pills and Metamucil. Try reading all the posts here. The subject of constipation comes up constantly. It's even mentioned in the Atkins book. > oh, and by the way - your formatting is fugly. do us all a favor and > stop posting so we don't have too look at it, mmmkay? $$ Mmmmmm.... killfile me! :-) This way you wont have to think at all, mmmmkay? SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > > > > Wysong *~ <P@P> typed: > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Many are getting their FIBER from things like fiber pills and Metamucil. many people are absolute morons. kind of like you. what's your excuse? > many people are absolute morons. kind of like you. > > what's your excuse? =============== OK, now I understand. All those people who posted here with bowel problems are all morons, all liars, all too crazy to eat at least 3 cups of vegetables a day..... LOL!!! :-D Calling people childish names while hiding behind your computers will not make the fiber/bowel problems people have go away. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > > many people are absolute morons. kind of like you. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > hiding behind your computers will not make the fiber/bowel problems people > have go away. do you have to work at being delusional or does it come naturally to you? > > > many people are absolute morons. kind of like you. > > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > do you have to work at being delusional or does it come naturally to > you? =============== $$ Oh, more childishness..... go for it! If you actually read all the messages on this board you would actually see those asking about fiber and the constipation problem even Dr Atkins acknowledged. Oh wait,... you'll claim Dr. Atkins was just delusional.... LOL!!! :-D SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > Oh, more childishness..... go for it! If you actually read all the > messages on this board you would actually see those asking about fiber and > the constipation problem even Dr Atkins acknowledged. Oh wait,... you'll > claim Dr. Atkins was just delusional.... LOL!!! :-D i've been here for two years. i've seen just about every kind of stupid post there is to see. yours rank way up there. > > Oh, more childishness..... go for it! If you actually read all the > > messages on this board you would actually see those asking about fiber and > > the constipation problem even Dr Atkins acknowledged. Oh wait,... you'll > > claim Dr. Atkins was just delusional.... LOL!!! :-D ==================== > i've been here for two years. i've seen just about every kind of stupid > post there is to see. > > yours rank way up there. ===================== Of course it does! You need your fantasy to survive.... SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > Of course it does! You need your fantasy to survive.... the horror of your posts is, alas, purely real. would that it were otherwise. Those are mostly newbies who (1) are going through the process of their bodies adjusting to a new way of eating and/or (2) are not eating as many veggies as they should. In addition, there are a number of factors that may make individuals more prone to constipation--the digestive system slows down somewhat with age, many medications--including common OTC painkillers--can cause constipation. I took psyllium every day for a while but now I just do on days when I realize my fiber intake has been low. I do quite a few soups that have lots of nice veggies in them, any easy way to get your fiber. In news:1OednQnRQ7twKmDcRVn-3g@heartoftn.net, Wysong *~ <P@P> stated | $$ Oh, more childishness..... go for it! If you actually read all | the messages on this board you would actually see those asking about [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | 171/ 166 / 140 lb | ========================================== > Those are mostly newbies who (1) are going through the process of their > bodies adjusting to a new way of eating and/or (2) are not eating as many [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > on days when I realize my fiber intake has been low. I do quite a few soups > that have lots of nice veggies in them, any easy way to get your fiber. ================================ I'm glad to hear that. When I added enough veggies for good gut action I stopped losing weight. I can only assume it was the carbs they contained. I can't see what else it could have been. It happened too many times to be a coincidence. Can I assume you are losing the 1 to 2 lbs a week Atkins claims we can without counting calories? SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message > > Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall you and it's [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > made no difference either way. It does make you wonder about a *diet* where > you must drink extra fiber to move your bowels. When you increase your carbs every few weeks to find your CCLL, eat more salad veggies, berries and nuts before adding things that are higher carb. Chewing food(like tougher steaks) for longer helps, as well as sipping a little water while eating larger portions of meat. Although drinking lots of water has been downplayed lately because it is unproven as being needed for weightloss, I have noticed that my stools are harder if I don't drink a lot during the day. Fat also helps to soften stools. Many new starters on lo-carb try to eat meat that is too lean. I don't find it necessary to add any soluable fiber. It makes me wonder too, that some people have to add fiber supplements. YMMV of course. > -- > Wysong > Age 60. Height 5'6" > Starting date: 1/8/05 > 171/ 166 / 140 lb > ========================================== > > "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message > > > Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall you and [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > It makes me wonder too, that some people have to add fiber supplements. YMMV > of course. So, if your bowels are moving along fine, do you need fiber for anything else? SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > So, if your bowels are moving along fine, do you need fiber for anything > else? There's been studies that show that, for diabetics, fibre intake can reduce blood glucose levels. I've no idea why! I take flax seeds daily, which add fibre and give me Omega 3, because that sounds like a win-win combo. Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.7/<6 Weight 95/78/72Kg 1g Metformin, 87.5ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004 > > > "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message > > > > Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall you and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > So, if your bowels are moving along fine, do you need fiber for anything > else? I think fiber is best when it is coming from natural sources. It helps to regulate the calories extracted by slowing down or "getting in the way" so to speak of digesting. It doesn't make much sense to me to pay to have it removed(like in flour) and then pay to get some as a supplement. I also wonder about whether fiber is doing it's proper job if it taken as a supplement "beside" other foods, rather than "surrounding" food which was it's original design. I don't see a problem really with supplementing anything. But I don't believe I could be healthier by eating more of something I should be getting naturally. Anybody taking fiber on the advise of a doctor may have good reason to be taking it because of bowel problems. I don't have any health problems, therefore, I don't see a need. Again, YMMV. > -- > Michelle Levin > http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick > > I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > > "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message > > > Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall you and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > where > > you must drink extra fiber to move your bowels. ================================================== > When you increase your carbs every few weeks to find your CCLL, eat more > salad veggies, berries and nuts before adding things that are higher carb. $$ Yes, we all know this Tom. Salad's are low in fiber. How much salad can you eat. Some people, like myself ate so much salad they cann;t stand the sight of one more low-fiber salad. Berries are expensive and can't be found everywhere. They're all but impossible to get where I live except for a few weeks of the year. Nuts are not high in fiber either. To get enough fiber increases the carbs - and that stalls/stops weight loss. > Chewing food(like tougher steaks) for longer helps, as well as sipping a > little water while eating larger portions of meat. > Although drinking lots of water has been downplayed lately because it is > unproven as being needed for weightloss, I have noticed that my stools are > harder if I don't drink a lot during the day. $$ I'm sure that works for some, but extra water did nothing for me and my closest friends on L.C.. We all gagged down Metamucil by the glassful. We all had a similar problem (although one gal had diarrhea at the start of LC) of being unable to consume enough fiber without a *supplement* and stay below a certain carb number. > Fat also helps to soften stools. Many new starters on lo-carb try to eat > meat that is too lean. I don't find it necessary to add any soluable fiber. > It makes me wonder too, that some people have to add fiber supplements. YMMV > of course. $$ All of us had to use them or consumed too many carbs. Oddly enough, one gal kept going from constipation to diarrhea. (I don't know if she would have adapted as she passed away with pneumonia a few months into the diet) Hay, I would have put up with the Metamucil had the diet kept working. I had hoped to lose all 80 lbs, then switch to a low calorie more diversified diet. Unfortunately nothing but cutting my calories drastically (900 to 1000 c. a day) worked on LC after those first 5 months. Talk about being disappointed.... :*( SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== >> > "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message >> > > Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > $$ Yes, we all know this Tom. Salad's are low in fiber. Nonsense. Salads are not just lettuce, unless you're stupid. How much > salad can you eat. Some people, like myself ate so much salad they > cann;t stand the sight of one more low-fiber salad. Berries are > expensive and can't be found everywhere. They're all but impossible > to get where I live except for a few weeks of the year. Nuts are not > high in fiber either. To get enough fiber increases the carbs - and > that stalls/stops weight loss. More bullshit. >> Chewing food(like tougher steaks) for longer helps, as well as >> sipping a little water while eating larger portions of meat. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > diarrhea at the start of LC) of being unable to consume enough fiber > without a *supplement* and stay below a certain carb number. Incredible nonsense. >> Fat also helps to soften stools. Many new starters on lo-carb try >> to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > but cutting my calories drastically (900 to 1000 c. a day) worked on > LC after those first 5 months. Talk about being disappointed.... :*( LC is not magic....you can still eat too much. > >> > "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message > >> > > Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Nonsense. Salads are not just lettuce, unless you're stupid. ## Who said they were JUST lettuce - are you too stupid to comprehend what you read? > How much > > salad can you eat. Some people, like myself ate so much salad they [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > high in fiber either. To get enough fiber increases the carbs - and > > that stalls/stops weight loss. > More bullshit. ## So you found carb-less veggies high in fiber??? Sounds like bullshit to me. > > $$ I'm sure that works for some, but extra water did nothing for me > > and my closest friends on L.C.. We all gagged down Metamucil by the > > glassful. We all had a similar problem (although one gal had > > diarrhea at the start of LC) of being unable to consume enough fiber > > without a *supplement* and stay below a certain carb number. > Incredible nonsense. ## So you found carb-less veggies high in fiber??? Sounds like bullshit to me. > > $$ All of us had to use them or consumed too many carbs. Oddly > > enough, one gal kept going from constipation to diarrhea. (I don't [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > but cutting my calories drastically (900 to 1000 c. a day) worked on > > LC after those first 5 months. Talk about being disappointed.... :*( > LC is not magic....you can still eat too much. ## How true! But 900 to 1000 calories of protein & fat is not much food for an active person. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== >> >> > "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message >> >> > > Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > ## Who said they were JUST lettuce - are you too stupid to > comprehend what you read? Then you are just trolling. You can get plenty of fiber from broccoli, cauliflower, spinach, etc. >> How much >> > salad can you eat. Some people, like myself ate so much salad they [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ## So you found carb-less veggies high in fiber??? Sounds like > bullshit to me. Most low-carb veggies are high in fiber. This is why you could not succeed on LC. >> > $$ I'm sure that works for some, but extra water did nothing for me >> > and my closest friends on L.C.. We all gagged down Metamucil by [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > ## So you found carb-less veggies high in fiber??? Sounds like > bullshit to me. See. >> > $$ All of us had to use them or consumed too many carbs. Oddly >> > enough, one gal kept going from constipation to diarrhea. (I don't [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > ## How true! But 900 to 1000 calories of protein & fat is not much > food for an active person. Again...why you can't succeed. why don't you just admit that you don't want to reach your stated goal. No one could think less of you. > > ## So you found carb-less veggies high in fiber??? Sounds like > > bullshit to me. >======================== > Again...why you can't succeed. $ RIGHT! Everyone including my Dr and NP just IMAGINED the 46 lbs vanished in 5 months! LOL!!! why don't you just admit that you don't want > to reach your stated goal. No one could think less of you. $ RIGHT AGAIN! Those who reach unexpected and permanent stalls enjoy remaining overweight. :-D It's magic! SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== >> > ## So you found carb-less veggies high in fiber??? Sounds like >> > bullshit to me. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > $ RIGHT! Everyone including my Dr and NP just IMAGINED the 46 lbs > vanished in 5 months! LOL!!! You still have 26 lbs to go to reach your stated goal...yet, you claim that LC stop working for you. Now, here you are making bullshit arguments that you can't get enough fiber on LC without blowing your carb amounts. Perhaps had you understood that calories *do* count too and that you can, if you eat the right veggies, get plenty of fiber without getting too many carbs, you'd be successful. Yet, you switch two a different plan like a yo-yo dieter. > why don't you just admit that you don't want >> to reach your stated goal. No one could think less of you. > > $ RIGHT AGAIN! Those who reach unexpected and permanent stalls enjoy > remaining overweight. :-D It's magic! Those who reach stalls either don't want to lose weight or are idiots. Which are you? > >> > ## So you found carb-less veggies high in fiber??? Sounds like > >> > bullshit to me. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > $ RIGHT! Everyone including my Dr and NP just IMAGINED the 46 lbs > > vanished in 5 months! LOL!!! ========================= > You still have 26 lbs to go to reach your stated goal...yet, you claim that > LC stop working for you. ## Now if it KEPT working I would have reached my goal in the spring of 2002. I didn't mind the diet all that much since I was seldom hungry on it. I ended up staying on it anyway for a long time after it quit working. Now tell me, if it works 100% of the time, and there were no permanent stalls/plateaus, why isn't everyone on this NG losing 1 to 2 1/2 lbs a week? Now, here you are making bullshit arguments that > you can't get enough fiber on LC without blowing your carb amounts. ## Now you're going to make the bullshit claim that one-size-fits-all when even Dr. Atkins knew about the fiber/constipation connection. Perhaps > had you understood that calories *do* count too and that you can, if you eat > the right veggies, get plenty of fiber without getting too many carbs, ## Anything over about 25 carbs and I didn't lose anything. How much fiber is in a cup of veggies at 8 carbs a cup? How many grams of fiber a day does a man need? A women? A fat person? A not so fat person for normal gut action? One cup of Italian green beans only supplies about 26% of the average person's daily fiber. It would take 4 cups to supply all that's needed - plus 36 grams of carbs. Add those 36 grams to whatever else is consumed that day that contains carbs. The few carbs in a slice of cheese, a glass of milk, a couple of walnuts, a salad .... the carbs add up. you'd > be successful. Yet, you switch two a different plan like a yo-yo dieter. ## I stuck to low-carb from 7/2001 to 11/2004 when I finally gave up on it. My NP did take me off it for a few months to see if a "break" would get the weight loss started again. It didn't, and I gained nothing those 3 months. If that's yo-yo ing then so be it. I did it on her advice. > > why don't you just admit that you don't want > >> to reach your stated goal. No one could think less of you. > > $ RIGHT AGAIN! Those who reach unexpected and permanent stalls enjoy > > remaining overweight. :-D It's magic! > Those who reach stalls either don't want to lose weight or are idiots. > Which are you? ## The same as you! :-) SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > there were no permanent stalls/plateaus, why isn't everyone on this > NG losing 1 to 2 1/2 lbs a week? Eating too much? > Now, here you are making bullshit arguments that >> you can't get enough fiber on LC without blowing your carb amounts. > > ## Now you're going to make the bullshit claim that > one-size-fits-all when even Dr. Atkins knew about the > fiber/constipation connection. Not everyone gets constipated and many try the plan eating mostly meat. Constipation is not a given. > Perhaps >> had you understood that calories *do* count too and that you can, if [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that contains carbs. The few carbs in a slice of cheese, a glass of > milk, a couple of walnuts, a salad .... the carbs add up. Eat 8 oz of broccoli with your meal. Besides...according to fitday, 1 cup of broccoli has 4.61g of carbs, with 2.64g of fiber. So that barely 2g per cup. 3 cups is 6 g carbs and 8g fiber. Friggin 75 kcals, too. More proof that you're clueless. But NOOOO. 3 cups is too much for you. 75 kcals is more than you can eat. Liar. > you'd >> be successful. Yet, you switch two a different plan like a yo-yo [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > nothing those 3 months. If that's yo-yo ing then so be it. I did it > on her advice. So. >> > why don't you just admit that you don't want >> >> to reach your stated goal. No one could think less of you. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > ## The same as you! :-) You're just making excuses. If you don't want to lose weight, just say so. No one cares. > > ## Now if it KEPT working I would have reached my goal in the spring > > of 2002. I didn't mind the diet all that much since I was seldom [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Eating too much? $$ Why are they eating too much if this is such a great diet, and works to goal weight? If they're following the Atkins plan they should all have their fat just "melting off" as they eat all those *sumptuous* meals..... > > ## Now you're going to make the bullshit claim that > > one-size-fits-all when even Dr. Atkins knew about the > > fiber/constipation connection. > Not everyone gets constipated and many try the plan eating mostly meat. > Constipation is not a given. $$ No on said it was a given. > > ## Anything over about 25 carbs and I didn't lose anything. How > > much fiber is in a cup of veggies at 8 carbs a cup? How many grams [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Eat 8 oz of broccoli with your meal. $$ I ate 3/4s of a cup. That was all I could hold. > Besides...according to fitday, 1 cup of broccoli has 4.61g of carbs, with > 2.64g of fiber. > So that barely 2g per cup. 3 cups is 6 g carbs and 8g fiber. Friggin 75 > kcals, too. More proof that you're clueless. $$ More proof you're clueless. 2.64 gms of fiber is not much for an adult. Learn about nutrition. > But NOOOO. 3 cups is too much for you. 75 kcals is more than you can eat. > Liar. $$ But NOOOO.... 3 cups is too much form many people unless they're huge with well stretched stomachs. How clueless can you get. 3 cups is still only 8 gms of fiber. To get even a quarter of what most adults need you would have to eat 9 cups of broccoli! Have at it! > > ## I stuck to low-carb from 7/2001 to 11/2004 when I finally gave up > > on it. My NP did take me off it for a few months to see if a "break" > > would get the weight loss started again. It didn't, and I gained > > nothing those 3 months. If that's yo-yo ing then so be it. I did it > > on her advice. > So. ## So? > >> Those who reach stalls either don't want to lose weight or are > >> idiots. Which are you? > > ## The same as you! :-) > You're just making excuses. If you don't want to lose weight, just say so. > No one cares. ## Of course NONE of us who are stalled or who hit permanent plateaus want to lose weight - that's why we stalled ourselves! Didn't you know? It's magic! SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > $$ Why are they eating too much if this is such a great diet, and > works to goal weight? Because people like to eat and atkins was trying to sell his diet. If they're following the Atkins plan they > should all have their fat just "melting off" as they eat all those > *sumptuous* meals..... sumptuous meals can be small, you know. >> > ## Now you're going to make the bullshit claim that >> > one-size-fits-all when even Dr. Atkins knew about the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > $$ I ate 3/4s of a cup. That was all I could hold. Then your problem is solved. Just eat broccoli all day. You'll be full and not hungry. Since broccoli has only a small number of calories, you easily lose weight. >> Besides...according to fitday, 1 cup of broccoli has 4.61g of carbs, >> with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > $$ More proof you're clueless. 2.64 gms of fiber is not much for an > adult. Learn about nutrition. Wow. Incredible. Like you can't eat something else. You're really unfucking believable. >> But NOOOO. 3 cups is too much for you. 75 kcals is more than you >> can eat. Liar. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is still only 8 gms of fiber. To get even a quarter of what most > adults need you would have to eat 9 cups of broccoli! Have at it! Wow. You have found the secret to weight loss. Just eat broccoli. You won't be able to eat more than 3 cups a day. You'll be full all day. You'll drop weight like flies going for a pile of sh.t. >> > ## I stuck to low-carb from 7/2001 to 11/2004 when I finally gave >> > up on it. My NP did take me off it for a few months to see if a [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > want to lose weight - that's why we stalled ourselves! Didn't you > know? It's magic! Yep. Just eat broccoli only and you're get your remaining 26 lbs - in record time, too. > > X-No-Archive: yes > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > $$ Why are they eating too much if this is such a great diet, and > > works to goal weight? > Because people like to eat and atkins was trying to sell his diet. ** Why are they eating too much if this is such a great diet, and works to goal weight? > If they're following the Atkins plan they > > should all have their fat just "melting off" as they eat all those > > *sumptuous* meals..... > sumptuous meals can be small, you know. ** Then why LC? Enjoy normal meals that are *small.* After all a small meal is a small meal. :o) ======== snip your same old idiotic blather..... SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== >Those who reach stalls either don't want to lose weight or are idiots. >Which are you? Oh, Roger. How cruel, unfair, and unwarranted. SignatureMogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat >>Those who reach stalls either don't want to lose weight or are idiots. >>Which are you? > > Oh, Roger. How cruel, unfair, and unwarranted. Sorry, Mogget. That was cruel. Of course, I'm speaking from my personal experience, which I admit, is very, very limited. :) Didn't I write that to Wysong? If so, you're going to have to give me a pass. She's under my skin at the moment. >>>Those who reach stalls either don't want to lose weight or are idiots. >>>Which are you? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Didn't I write that to Wysong? Maybe so, but you phrased it globally. Read the sentence again. >If so, you're going to have to give me a >pass. She's under my skin at the moment. WHY, for heaven's sake? She's a *success*. She met difficulties low carbing, stalled for a good long time, and found a way through it. She's now losing, and happy with all that entails. She deserves applause for being a sticker even when the going got tough. This is a bloody support group, yet she's high on the group's shitlist even though she's succeeding. You want to know my pet theory? I think that when people have difficulties losing with low carb, it threatens the cosy world view of those who still believe that "if you follow the plan, you will lose weight". And that brings out a lot of hostility. SignatureMogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat >>>> Those who reach stalls either don't want to lose weight or are idiots. >>>> Which are you? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > those who still believe that "if you follow the plan, you will lose > weight". And that brings out a lot of hostility. No, she's on my craplist because she blames everything on low carb. I congratulate her on her success; nonetheless, she doesn't have to come here and repeat over and over again that low carb doesn't work. However, I still believe that calories count the most (unlike Atkins). What she said that she didn't lose weight unless she kept her carbs very low, but she never once talked about calories. I liken her view to a Muslim who used to be in a Christian group but then converted and now is telling everyone how bad Christianity is (and you can switch "Muslim" and "Christian" with any religion). She's telling us that low carb didn't work for her and that it won't work for us, which is wrong. SignatureBob in CT >> You want to know my pet theory? I think that when people have >>difficulties losing with low carb, it threatens the cosy world view of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >congratulate her on her success; nonetheless, she doesn't have to come >here and repeat over and over again that low carb doesn't work. Maybe we're reading different things into her words. I haven't heard that. I've heard that low carb doesn't work, at this time, *for her*. >However, I still believe that calories count the most (unlike Atkins). >What she said that she didn't lose weight unless she kept her carbs >very low, but she never once talked about calories. Untrue. Wysong has many, many times said that she can only lose if she cuts her calories ultra-low, which she finds unsustainable. SignatureMogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat >>> You want to know my pet theory? I think that when people have >>>difficulties losing with low carb, it threatens the cosy world view [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Maybe we're reading different things into her words. I haven't heard > that. I've heard that low carb doesn't work, at this time, *for her*. If low carb doesn't work for her, why is she doing WW low carb / low fat? When she was here before, she was doing what she called *strict* LC (30g or less per day), which isn't what Atkins is about. She would have ended up in the same place she is now 2 years ago had some simply been more patient and followed the rules. Now she in here bitching about SUMPTUOUS meals and saying she couldn't lose before because she was eating too much FAT while still only getting 900 kcals per day. And then she talks about how we must give up all the foods we LOVE in order to lose weight. BULLSHIT. >>However, I still believe that calories count the most (unlike >>Atkins). What she said that she didn't lose weight unless she kept >>her carbs very low, but she never once talked about calories. > > Untrue. Wysong has many, many times said that she can only lose if > she cuts her calories ultra-low, which she finds unsustainable. On strict LC...now she eats around 1200 which isn't that low for a woman. She claims to be doing WW LC/LF (whatever that is) > She would have ended up in >the same place she is now 2 years ago had some simply been more patient and >followed the rules. Ah yes, the old "blame it on non-compliance" ploy. SignatureMogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat > > She would have ended up in > >the same place she is now 2 years ago had some simply been more patient and > >followed the rules. > > Ah yes, the old "blame it on non-compliance" ploy. I understand your sympathy with Wysong, based on results. But, 2 years ago, when she was here (I think it was during your pregnancy, but I'm not sure), the attitude that she expressed toward her non-results was very different from that expressed by other folks who have difficulty losing (folks like you and Aramanth, for instance). For instance, I never saw people lose patience with you two, because you gave things a fair shot before declaring them a failure. Wysong would give long explanations of why she couldn't try something, or she would try it for one day, observe that she had gained a pound, and declare it a failure. Then she started morphing her username, to avoid killfiles. Understand, for all that "blame it on noncompliance" is a really pernicious attitude, sometimes patients/dieters, etc. really *are* non-compliant. SignatureAF Should it rather be blamed on total idiocy? SignatureMost people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW >> She would have ended up in >>the same place she is now 2 years ago had some simply been more patient >>and >>followed the rules. > > Ah yes, the old "blame it on non-compliance" ploy. >>>>Those who reach stalls either don't want to lose weight or are idiots. >>>>Which are you? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>Sorry, Mogget. That was cruel. Of course, I'm speaking from my personal >>experience, which I admit, is very, very limited. :) PS Apology accepted, which means I won't hold it against you, and won't bring it up again. Even if I had a go at you, I still hold you as one of the good guys. SignatureMogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat >>>>>Those who reach stalls either don't want to lose weight or are >>>>>idiots. Which are you? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > as one > of the good guys. I don't take things personally here, so even if you had a go at me we get beyond it. But obviously I am very PRO LC. It someone chooses another plan and finds success, more power to them. But they can also go elsewhere to preach. >>>>Those who reach stalls either don't want to lose weight or are >>>>idiots. Which are you? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > those who still believe that "if you follow the plan, you will lose > weight". And that brings out a lot of hostility. She isn't doing anything that one could do on LC now. Atkin is all about finding the right carb level for YOU. Now her carb level is higher than it was. Had she followed the rules, she would have met success a long time ago. Now she is simply here talking BS. I bought a can of benifiber over a year ago- a good product that cost me $12, it will expire I'm sure, I don't need it, drinking 64 oz of water a day, eating all the salad and fiber I eat. If you add fiber and don't add water- you get cement! Diane SignatureThe key to success is knowing your limits > >> "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> 171/ 166 / 140 lb >> ========================================== > I bought a can of benifiber over a year ago- a good product that cost me > $12, it will expire I'm sure, I don't need it, drinking 64 oz of water a > day, eating all the salad and fiber I eat. > > If you add fiber and don't add water- you get cement! ============================ Two of us used Metamucil and Lil was using something similar but 1/2 the price. We could get enough fiber from our diet of course but that brought the carbs up to unacceptable levels. What did you have in your salad that was high in fiber? I personally reached the point where the sight of salad made me want to retch! I was getting my fiber from low-carb veggies, but that was something 3 grams per 1/2 cup of stringbeans etc. Nowhere's near enough. But with those 3 grams of fiber came 9 grams of carbs. OK, deduce the fiber = 6 grams of carbs! How that other poster consumed 3 cups of veggies a day and still remained below 25 to 30 carbs a day is a mystery to me. She/he was getting at least 18 carbs from dinner alone. You still have to add the carbs from your milk and whatever else you consume during the day. I had to keep my carbs at no more than 25 to 30 a day during those 5 months or I lost nothing. Unfortunately even at that low count I stopped losing after those first 5 months. One friend also stopped losing, but after 8 months as I recall, Lil passed away with pneumonia so..... she was averaging 2 to 2 1/2 lbs a week, i.e. losing the most on Atkins. At the point I stopped losing everyone claimed the things I had eaten and the things I had been drinking for those 5 months *suddenly* and out of the blue STALLED my weight loss! In the end I gave up coffee, diet soda, milk, cheese, nuts.... I am not kidding when I say by the time I gave up on total low-carbing I was down to little more than lettuce, cucumbers, Swiss chard, spinach, meat and eggs. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== I don't know where you get your number, according to FitDay one cup of string beans has 11 carbs, 4 fiber, 7 net. The baby green beans (haricots) that I buy at Costco have 4 less 2, net 2 per cup. And Romaine lettuce has 1 gram, all fiber, per cup. If you really want a veggie that will make you go eat cabbage, it's 5 less 2 net 3 per cup but has a laxative effect greater than the fiber would indicate. In news:-aqdnRQcqZkEHGDcRVn-jw@heartoftn.net, Wysong *~ <P@P> stated | Two of us used Metamucil and Lil was using something similar but 1/2 | the price. We could get enough fiber from our diet of course but [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] | 171/ 166 / 140 lb | ========================================== > I don't know where you get your number, according to FitDay one cup of > string beans has 11 carbs, 4 fiber, 7 net. ** I don't know where fitday gets them from either. I took them right off a can of beans in my cabinet. I have several types of bean. This can (Allen's brand) is 1 cup: 14 carbs, fiber 3 - 11 net carbs. The baby green beans (haricots) > that I buy at Costco have 4 less 2, net 2 per cup. ** I didn't take them off the same brand of beans. And Romaine lettuce has > 1 gram, all fiber, per cup. ** That's almost nothing. If you really want a veggie that will make you > go eat cabbage, it's 5 less 2 net 3 per cup but has a laxative effect > greater than the fiber would indicate. ** Tell that to those who ask about fiber here. I'll buy plenty of cabbage if I go back on the strict low-carb diet again. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== Well, it looks like you need to do more label reading while you shop. If you want some nice soup recipes with cabbage in them google for my name and soup. In news:cu-dnYSuuMcmI2DcRVn-tg@heartoftn.net, Wysong *~ <P@P> stated | X-No-Archive: yes | [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] | 171/ 166 / 140 lb | ========================================== > Well, it looks like you need to do more label reading while you shop. > > If you want some nice soup recipes with cabbage in them google for my name > and soup. ================= Thanks FOB but I'm not a soup eater. I made cabbage with either thick Canadian bacon or boneless country style ribs. What liquid was there was drained off and disposed of. SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== > I don't know where you get your number, according to FitDay one cup of > string beans has 11 carbs, 4 fiber, 7 net. The baby green beans (haricots) > that I buy at Costco have 4 less 2, net 2 per cup. I've never heard of these. Do they taste like regular green beans? Marsha/Ohio Yes, they're just young green beans so the beans inside are not well developed. They are nice and tender. In news:642dnX7YHfcFWmPcRVn-qw@buckeye-express.com, Marsha <mas@sev.org> stated || I don't know where you get your number, according to FitDay one cup || of string beans has 11 carbs, 4 fiber, 7 net. The baby green beans [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | | Marsha/Ohio || "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message ||| Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall you [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] || 171/ 166 / 140 lb || ========================================== You obviously are not following a proper low-arb diet. I eat far more fiber now than I did pre-low carb, Every day I'm eating plenty of broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, cabbage, lettuce, etc. Prior to low-arb I ate junk food. If you're constipated try eating right. -- Peter 270/219/180 website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo > || "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message > ||| Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall you [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > cauliflower, brussel sprouts, cabbage, lettuce, etc. Prior to low-arb I > ate junk food. If you're constipated try eating right. This is a learned process. Low carbing now for about a month, I'm amazed at how I had changed in selecting what I eat. Indeed, reaching for the cabbage, broccoli, brussel sprouts, asparagus. Most of what I eat is protein. And still, I eat 3 to 4 times the fiber as I did not lowcarbing. Search me if it's all in the mind or not, but I am feeling incredible. I will go as far as to say, that if I got nothing else (like losing weight!) out of this but blood sugar control, blood pressure control, appetite control and healthy eating, I'll be fine with it. Losing weight is a bonus and is certainly a huge part of the above controls. I've always been a "Big guy" and I'm comfortable with that part. The health benefits is what make the difference in losing the weight. Not some moron telling you "You're still fat." Like, Blow me. When I posted about the psyllium, I had not made this fiber transition yet. It was helpful. I had cut back to a tbsp or so on it. And will drop it soon. Best Regards, Steve Tout est per·du fors l'hon·neur > This is a learned process. Low carbing now for about a month, I'm amazed > at how I had changed in selecting what I eat. Indeed, reaching for the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > out of this but blood sugar control, blood pressure control, appetite > control and healthy eating, I'll be fine with it. Congratulations, Steve! You have seen the light! You "get it" :-) SignatureSaffire 205/144/125 - 5'1.5" Atkins since 6/14/03 Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333 > > This is a learned process. Low carbing now for about a month, I'm amazed > > at how I had changed in selecting what I eat. Indeed, reaching for the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Congratulations, Steve! You have seen the light! You "get it" :-) Thanks Miss, I do know you're talking from experience. Considering your long haul with LC and seems you're there to stay. Your inputs are very valuable. But to think I just asked about Psyllium and people seem to beat the crap out of each other. It's even entertaining. Add the Village Eunuch (snicker) and we have a small Global dysfunctional community. Like, where can you buy something like this?! Best Regards, Steve Tout est per·du fors l'hon·neur > || "Perdu" <perdu.conundrum@SPAMBAITgmail.com> wrote in message > ||| Since I'm temporarily stalled, I also wonder if it can stall you [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > You obviously are not following a proper low-arb diet. $ Now I am following the WW diet and have lost 5 lbs in the past few weeks. I wanted more *variety* then I was getting on low-carb, and hadn't lost anything in 2 years. I eat far more > fiber now than I did pre-low carb, Every day I'm eating plenty of broccoli, > cauliflower, brussel sprouts, cabbage, lettuce, etc. $ Yes, I did as well - but only up to 25 grams of carbs a day or I stopped losing weight. That was not a lot of veggies. Stringbeans alone have 6 carbs per 1/2 a cup and only 3 grams of fiber. High fiber veggies are corn, peas - also high in carbs. I don't have my nutrition book at hand but I looked all veggies up when I began low-carbing in 2001. Prior to low-arb I > ate junk food. If you're constipated try eating right. $ I'm not constipated. :-) I seldom if ever ate junk food. Cake, pie, things like that are and were a treat. Not something I ate even once a week. I'm married and cook dinner 6 nights a week. One night we go to a restaurant - not a fast food joint. It's amazing how all the regulars claim to be low-carbing and yet eating loads and loads of assorted veggies. And the newcomers are asking about constipation.... ??!?!?! > Peter > 270/219/180 > website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo SignatureWysong Age 60. Height 5'6" Starting date: 1/8/05 171/ 166 / 140 lb ========================================== 2 heads of lettuce a day (the ones for making ceasar salad) is good enough for me. if I stall, it's all because I eat too much or because my water is up due to, ahem, eating carbs. > First I thought - Psyllium is Pfantastic. Psilky. Psuper. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I ate less and I exercised more. > I lost weight. And you're still a dumbass. > 2 heads of lettuce a day (the ones for making ceasar salad) is good enough for > me. if I stall, it's all because I eat too much or because my water is up due > to, ahem, eating carbs. My carbs are good. I stay around 10 to 15 a day. And I did cut back on the Psyllium. I dang near forgot how good bacon wrapped asparagus is. Heck, if you think, even 2X4's are good wrapped in bacon. But I'm upping the fiber. Doing pretty ok. Romaine lettuce is also a staple. Lot of stuff out there. Farmer's Market is a heaven sent. Best Regards, Steve Tout est per·du fors l'hon·neur > even 2X4's are good wrapped in bacon. Steve That's a good one. And, 2X4's are high in fiber too. : ) Tom 210/180/180 |
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