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Sodium & Water Weight Gain - A 10-Day Accounting

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Saffire - 12 Feb 2005 09:44 GMT
Below is a summary of my weight and sodium intake from 2/1- 2/11.  As
you can see, it started to jump up after ingesting 2000+ mgs of
sodium/day.  After cutting it back down to less than 2000 mgs/day, my
weight returned to what it was before the jump.  CAVEAT:  My TOM is
about 5 weeks overdue, so I have NO idea at this point when PMS might
affect my weight -- since it's STILL not here, even with the temporary
weight gain during the last 10 days, I'm going to assume that my
hormones had nothing to do with that (and no, I'm NOT pregnant).  It may
also be that the sodium had nothing to do with it, but I've noticed a
jump in weight before when I've had noticeable extra sodium intake.  

Wt     Sodium (mgs)

144.5    1538
145.0    2099
145.5  3592
147.5    3224
148.0    2251
148.0    2246
146.5    3675
146.5    2750
146.0    3310
146.0    1683
144.5    1474

The point of this post is to show that sodium can and DOES appear to
have a measurable effect on weight, so if you have a quick jump up on
the scale, a) don't freak out over it because it's highly doubtful that
it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are taking in.  

Signature

Saffire
205/144/125  -  5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Roger Zoul - 12 Feb 2005 12:22 GMT
There's no question about this.

Last year I went on a charity ride with a buddy of mine.  He is not a LCer.
During that 60+ mile ride, he consumed a lot of Gatoraid.  A week later he
told me that when he got home he had gained about 7 lbs and it took most of
the week for the extra weight to disappear.  Since then he stopped drinking
so much Gatoraid during rides.

I've also experienced this kind of weight gain due to extra sodium, too.

> Below is a summary of my weight and sodium intake from 2/1- 2/11.  As
> you can see, it started to jump up after ingesting 2000+ mgs of
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> that it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are taking
> in.
GaryG - 12 Feb 2005 23:50 GMT
> There's no question about this.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the week for the extra weight to disappear.  Since then he stopped drinking
> so much Gatoraid during rides.

I find it very hard to believe that your friend gained 7 lbs on a 60 mile
ride.  And, even if he did gain some weight, I doubt the Gatorade had
anything to do with it. Most folks experience temporary weight loss after a
long ride due to dehydration, regardless of whether they were drinking
Gatorade.

Checking my records from last year, I see that:

The day after a 105 mile ride my weight was down -2.6 lbs.

The day after a 104 mile ride, I recorded a weight "loss" of 3.8 lbs (it
bounced back over the next couple of days).

On a 65 mile ride, I "gained" 1.6 lbs, and on a 70 mile ride, I "lost" 0.4
lbs.

These are pretty typical of the temporary weight fluctuations that occur
after an extended effort.  On most of those rides, I drank mostly straight,
full strength Gatorade (probably at least a gallon on the longer rides),
plus pretzels and other salty snacks to help ward off cramping due to
electrolyte loss.

Are you sure your friend didn't gain those 7 lbs eating spaghetti and
drinking beer after the ride?  That's a pretty common scenario...especially
after a charity ride where they put on a big post-ride feed.

GG
http://www.WeightWare.com
Your Weight and Health Diary

> I've also experienced this kind of weight gain due to extra sodium, too.
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> > that it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are taking
> > in.
Roger Zoul - 13 Feb 2005 05:13 GMT
>> There's no question about this.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> On a 65 mile ride, I "gained" 1.6 lbs, and on a 70 mile ride, I
> "lost" 0.4 lbs.

Well, there is a gain....

> These are pretty typical of the temporary weight fluctuations that
> occur after an extended effort.  On most of those rides, I drank
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Are you sure your friend didn't gain those 7 lbs eating spaghetti and
> drinking beer after the ride?

No....How can I be sure of anything that happened to him?  I'm only
reporting what he told me.

Also, there might be the issue of him just not being use to the extra
electrolyte load..whereas you are.  But who knows.

That's a pretty common
> scenario...especially after a charity ride where they put on a big
> post-ride feed.

I doubt one could put on a 7 lb post-ride feed that would stay around for
nearly a week.  I could see if in the case of a LCer who has been gylcogen
drained and then takes a serious carb load.  This has happened regularly
with me.

> GG
> http://www.WeightWare.com
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>> > that it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are
>> > taking in.
GaryG - 13 Feb 2005 06:28 GMT
> >> There's no question about this.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Well, there is a gain....

Yeah...I was ravenous after that ride and pigged out.  The point is, that I
drank a LOT of Gatorade on all those rides, and on most I experienced fairly
significant, though temporary, weight loss.  I never gained anywhere near 7
lbs, and really doubt that your friend did either (and if he did, it wasn't
due to Gatorade).

> > These are pretty typical of the temporary weight fluctuations that
> > occur after an extended effort.  On most of those rides, I drank
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> No....How can I be sure of anything that happened to him?  I'm only
> reporting what he told me.

Precisely...it's hearsay, and of no value to this discussion.

> Also, there might be the issue of him just not being use to the extra
> electrolyte load..whereas you are.  But who knows.

I've tried googling for "sodium" and "water retention", but have been unable
to locate any studies that quantified the effect (if it exists).  I would
assume that the body is reasonably adept at regulating electrolyte balances,
and that excess sodium would be rather rapidly removed by the kidneys and/or
by sweat.

I did find one page that seems to indicate that the "water retention"
effects of sodium intake are not all that significant.  Specifically:

http://www.gssiweb.com/reflib/refs/455/200107_q6.cfm?pid=55&CFID=1338295&CFTOKEN
=73799354

"Will the sodium from sports drinks make me retain water?

That depends.

 a.. No, if you're worried about excess fluid retention associated with
increased blood pressure or body weight. The body very efficiently regulates
blood sodium so the small amount in sports drinks (no more than a slice of
bread or glass of milk) is insignificant.
 b.. Yes, if you consider what happens during exercise. By replacing sodium
lost in sweat, it helps maintain extracellular fluid volume and stimulates
drinking. This limits dehydration, heat illness and decreased performance.
-- Mark Davis Ph.D., Department of Exercise Science, School of Public
Health, University of South Carolina"

>  That's a pretty common
> > scenario...especially after a charity ride where they put on a big
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> >> > that it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are
> >> > taking in.
Roger Zoul - 13 Feb 2005 14:23 GMT
>> >> There's no question about this.
>> >>
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines]
> I did find one page that seems to indicate that the "water retention"
> effects of sodium intake are not all that significant.  Specifically:

Well, it's a good thing to know that Gatoraid won't contribute to some
additional kind of bloating (extra sodium)....It's bad enough to get bloated
from adding in lots of carbs around a ride. (probably due to overdoing the
carbs! :) )
GaryG - 13 Feb 2005 06:33 GMT
> >> There's no question about this.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> Also, there might be the issue of him just not being use to the extra
> electrolyte load..whereas you are.  But who knows.

FWIW, full strength Gatorade only contains 100 mg of sodium per 8 oz serving
(4% of the RDA).

GG

>  That's a pretty common
> > scenario...especially after a charity ride where they put on a big
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> >> > that it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are
> >> > taking in.
Wysong *~ - 13 Feb 2005 04:39 GMT
> I've also experienced this kind of weight gain due to extra sodium, too.
==========================
Redundancy in sentence.
Signature

Spelling & Grammar Police
Age 60.  Height 5'6"
Starting date: 1/8/05
171/ 165 / 140 lb
Starting date LC 7/01 at 207lbs
Stopped losing on LC 11/01 at 165lbs
==========================================
Crap - I forgot to get my official stamp of approval and sign the
little document promising only to have thoughts that conform to the
official ASDLC guidelines.
I hate it when that happens. (credit Sophie)
~~<~~<~~{@  ~~<~~<~~{@  ~~<~~<~~{@

JC Der Koenig - 12 Feb 2005 14:49 GMT
Try eating less and doing some exercise.

Duh.

Signature

Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that.  -- MFW

> Below is a summary of my weight and sodium intake from 2/1- 2/11.  As
> you can see, it started to jump up after ingesting 2000+ mgs of
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> the scale, a) don't freak out over it because it's highly doubtful that
> it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are taking in.
tia - 12 Feb 2005 15:20 GMT
sodium is salt...salt retains water.. so wouldnt it make sense that you
would gain weight injesting more of that?
warehouse - 12 Feb 2005 20:49 GMT
> sodium is salt...salt retains water.. so wouldnt it make sense that you
> would gain weight injesting more of that?

Sodium is a metal.

Sodium Chloride is a salt.
Saffire - 12 Feb 2005 21:18 GMT
> sodium is salt...salt retains water.. so wouldnt it make sense that you
> would gain weight injesting more of that?

It wasn't posed as a question, but as a demonstration.

Signature

Saffire
205/144/125  -  5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

warehouse - 12 Feb 2005 21:40 GMT
> > sodium is salt...salt retains water.. so wouldnt it make sense that you
> > would gain weight injesting more of that?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Atkins since 6/14/03
> Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Precisely.  A demonstration of the outcomes of sleeping through
chemistry, biology and english.
Saffire - 13 Feb 2005 01:52 GMT
> > > sodium is salt...salt retains water.. so wouldnt it make sense that
> you
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Precisely.  A demonstration of the outcomes of sleeping through
> chemistry, biology and english.

Since you are obviously a troll, you are deliberately being obtuse.  I
was using the word "sodium" based on the category listed on nutritional
labels and the USDA Nutritional Database.  

Signature

Saffire
205/144/125  -  5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

warehouse - 13 Feb 2005 04:34 GMT
> > > > sodium is salt...salt retains water.. so wouldnt it make sense that
> > you
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Atkins since 6/14/03
> Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

You grossly misunderstood the intent of my reponse using your post as a
foil to take aim at tia's post.  Obtuse to some, humor to others, and
nay trolling to the few.

Salt ingestion is self-limiting and will produce a temporary weight
gain of addtional water.  But who cares?  Isn't the goal to lose
visceral body fat?  Would you go carrying on if you gained 10 pounds of
muscle tissue or are you intent on losing that as well towards the goal
of "weight loss"?
JC Der Koenig - 13 Feb 2005 05:15 GMT
>> > > In article
> <1108221641.147450.148350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> muscle tissue or are you intent on losing that as well towards the goal
> of "weight loss"?

If Saffire disagrees with you, then you must be a troll.

So it is written, and so it shall be.
Pedro's Cat - 13 Feb 2005 02:24 GMT
> sodium is salt...salt retains water.. so wouldnt it make sense that you
> would gain weight injesting more of that?

Yes, well. um. Have you thought this through? if the water gained was
simply retained by the "sodium" then in order to gain a pound in weight
you would need to ingest more than a pound of "sodium". I don't think
that this is how it works. The reality is that water retention due to
salt ingestion is just one of the many improbable, implausible, rather
pathetic excuses that women have used for eons to explain their lack of
dietary control.

'I am not fat, I ate a salt cracker and it sucked up three gallons of
water!'

You hear variations on this theme all the time.

PC
Bev-Ann - 13 Feb 2005 03:07 GMT
Have YOU thought this through?  Water retention is a known side effect of
excess sodium intake, whether in females or males.  And a single 'salt
cracker' wouldn't be enough to cause much of a difference.  But at the
levels that Saffire posted, it's definitely a factor in water weight gain.
I've been keeping a similar chart for 3 months now.  I can gain 3 pounds of
water weight overnight if I ingest more than 2400mg sodium during the
previous day.  I know it's water weight because I've been at my goal weight
for the same 3 months and that's the only time the scale fluctuates like
that, otherwise it's steady at + or - half a pound.  Plus the fact that I
will urinate a lot more frequently for a couple of days after the
high-sodium day.

on Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:24:00 +1000, Pedro's Cat <catatonic@invalid.com>
wrote:

>Yes, well. um. Have you thought this through? if the water gained was
>simply retained by the "sodium" then in order to gain a pound in weight
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>You hear variations on this theme all the time.

-----
Bev
DJ Delorie - 13 Feb 2005 03:11 GMT
> Yes, well. um. Have you thought this through? if the water gained was
> simply retained by the "sodium" then in order to gain a pound in weight
> you would need to ingest more than a pound of "sodium".

No, if you ingest more than a pound of sodium, you'd gain *at least* a
pound of weight, just from the sodium alone.  Of course, you'd die
too, but that's a different issue.

> I don't think that this is how it works.

Among other things, the body has to maintain a specific concentration
of sodium (and other ions) in order to function.  It's a small
percentage of total weight.  I don't know the exact number, but it's
around 1% so we'll use that for the math.  If you ingest 10g of salt,
or about 5g of sodium, you'll need about 500g of water to correct the
concentration - about 1.1 lbs of water for 1/3 oz of salt.

When the sodium is eliminated, the body has to eliminate water to
raise the concentration back up.
Wysong *~ - 13 Feb 2005 04:42 GMT
> 'I am not fat, I ate a salt cracker and it sucked up three gallons of
> water!'
>
> You hear variations on this theme all the time.
====================
Not from post-menopausal women.  ;-)
Signature

Wysong
Age 60.  Height 5'6"
Starting date: 1/8/05
171/ 165 / 140 lb
Starting date LC 7/01 at 207lbs
Stopped losing on LC 11/01 at 165lbs
==========================================
Crap - I forgot to get my official stamp of approval and sign the
little document promising only to have thoughts that conform to the
official ASDLC guidelines.
I hate it when that happens. (credit Sophie)
~~<~~<~~{@  ~~<~~<~~{@  ~~<~~<~~{@

GaryG - 13 Feb 2005 17:06 GMT
, duh.

top-posting

not

Try

> Try eating less and doing some exercise.
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> > the scale, a) don't freak out over it because it's highly doubtful that
> > it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are taking in.
JC Der Koenig - 13 Feb 2005 17:16 GMT
No thanks.

Signature

Now piss off.  You cannot possibly be this stupid and remember to
breathe.   You must be trolling.  -- Carmen

>, duh.
>
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>> > the scale, a) don't freak out over it because it's highly doubtful that
>> > it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are taking in.
Moon Shooter - 12 Feb 2005 16:49 GMT
Sweat is the only way to remove excess salt in the body.
The other way is to eat more Potassium(Banana, Tomato).
Tomato is one of the foods that contain lots of Lycopene.
google Lycopene for more info.

=>Below is a summary of my weight and sodium intake from 2/1- 2/11.  As
=>you can see, it started to jump up after ingesting 2000+ mgs of
=>sodium/day.  After cutting it back down to less than 2000 mgs/day, my
=>weight returned to what it was before the jump.  CAVEAT:  My TOM is
=>about 5 weeks overdue, so I have NO idea at this point when PMS might
=>affect my weight -- since it's STILL not here, even with the temporary
=>weight gain during the last 10 days, I'm going to assume that my
=>hormones had nothing to do with that (and no, I'm NOT pregnant).  It may
=>also be that the sodium had nothing to do with it, but I've noticed a
=>jump in weight before when I've had noticeable extra sodium intake.  
=>
=>Wt     Sodium (mgs)
=>
=>144.5    1538
=>145.0    2099
=>145.5  3592
=>147.5    3224
=>148.0    2251
=>148.0    2246
=>146.5    3675
=>146.5    2750
=>146.0    3310
=>146.0    1683
=>144.5    1474
=>
=>The point of this post is to show that sodium can and DOES appear to
=>have a measurable effect on weight, so if you have a quick jump up on
=>the scale, a) don't freak out over it because it's highly doubtful that
=>it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are taking in.  
JC Der Koenig - 12 Feb 2005 18:22 GMT
Is sweat the only way or not the only way?

Make up what little mind you have.

Signature

Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that.  -- MFW

> Sweat is the only way to remove excess salt in the body.
> The other way is to eat more Potassium(Banana, Tomato).
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> =>the scale, a) don't freak out over it because it's highly doubtful that
> =>it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are taking in.
warehouse - 13 Feb 2005 01:08 GMT
> Sweat is the only way to remove excess salt in the body.
> The other way is to eat more Potassium(Banana, Tomato).
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> =>sodium/day.  After cutting it back down to less than 2000 mgs/day, my
> =>weight returned to what it was before the jump.  CAVEAT:  My TOM is

> =>about 5 weeks overdue, so I have NO idea at this point when PMS might
> =>affect my weight -- since it's STILL not here, even with the temporary
> =>weight gain during the last 10 days, I'm going to assume that my
> =>hormones had nothing to do with that (and no, I'm NOT pregnant).  It may
> =>also be that the sodium had nothing to do with it, but I've noticed a
> =>jump in weight before when I've had noticeable extra sodium intake.

> =>
> =>Wt     Sodium (mgs)
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> =>the scale, a) don't freak out over it because it's highly doubtful that
> =>it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are taking in.

Have your kidneys shutdown?  That's a shame. You should seek medical
attention soon.
Moon Shooter - 20 Feb 2005 19:34 GMT
=>
=>Sweat is the only way to remove excess salt in the body.
=>The other way is to eat more Potassium(Banana, Tomato).

The other way to counter salt(NaCl) in the body is to eat more
Potassium(Banana, Tomato). It balance Na/K inside/outside the cell wall, but
it does not remove Na/K in the body.

=>Tomato is one of the foods that contain lots of Lycopene.
=>google Lycopene for more info.
=>
=>On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:44:53 -0800, Saffire
=><xsaffireslicethispart@internetcyberplace.com> wrote:
=>
=>=>Below is a summary of my weight and sodium intake from 2/1- 2/11.  As
=>=>you can see, it started to jump up after ingesting 2000+ mgs of
=>=>sodium/day.  After cutting it back down to less than 2000 mgs/day, my
=>=>weight returned to what it was before the jump.  CAVEAT:  My TOM is
=>=>about 5 weeks overdue, so I have NO idea at this point when PMS might
=>=>affect my weight -- since it's STILL not here, even with the temporary
=>=>weight gain during the last 10 days, I'm going to assume that my
=>=>hormones had nothing to do with that (and no, I'm NOT pregnant).  It may
=>=>also be that the sodium had nothing to do with it, but I've noticed a
=>=>jump in weight before when I've had noticeable extra sodium intake.  
=>=>
=>=>Wt     Sodium (mgs)
=>=>
=>=>144.5    1538
=>=>145.0    2099
=>=>145.5  3592
=>=>147.5    3224
=>=>148.0    2251
=>=>148.0    2246
=>=>146.5    3675
=>=>146.5    2750
=>=>146.0    3310
=>=>146.0    1683
=>=>144.5    1474
=>=>
=>=>The point of this post is to show that sodium can and DOES appear to
=>=>have a measurable effect on weight, so if you have a quick jump up on
=>=>the scale, a) don't freak out over it because it's highly doubtful that
=>=>it's fat, and b) pay attention to how much sodium you are taking in.  
Pedro's Cat - 13 Feb 2005 04:12 GMT
DJ Delorie wrote:

> Pedro's Cat <catatonic@invalid.com> writes:
>
>>Yes, well. um. Have you thought this through? if the water gained was
>>simply retained by the "sodium" then in order to gain a pound in
weight
>>you would need to ingest more than a pound of "sodium".
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> When the sodium is eliminated, the body has to eliminate water to
> raise the concentration back up.

Interesting theory, but not valid in my case and I suspect in other
cases as well. I am a salt enthusiast, in fact if I don't get sufficient
salt in hot weather I become quite ill. In the days before fad theories
became confused with medical lore, people living in hot climates were
issued supplementary salt tablets, and I still believe that unless you
are hypertensive, salt is a good thing. Like low cholesterol foods being
promoted for people who do not have a cholesterol problem, low salt
diets for non-hypertensive people are pointless. Before anyone says
anything, I have very low blood pressure, not hypertensive etc.

I salt everything I eat, always have done, but on those odd occasions
where I cannot get access to salt for a few days, my weight does not
change in the slightest. No fluid retention here. I have always believed
that fluid retention was a myth, a "female" myth. Never heard a guy
complain of fluid retention. Maybe fat guys do, but I have never known
any fat guys. In my gym, half the women complain about it, all the guys,
instructors included, just laugh and wink at each other. It is pure BS.

Ingesting sodium does not immediately change the body's "concentration"
of sodium, you are not dumping a packet of salt into a tub of water.
Your concept of human biology is very simplistic and quite inaccurate.

Still, if you have come to rely on the "I'm not fat, it was the salt .."
schtik for your "raison d'lard", then who am I to disavow you. Fill your
boots, go for it. We'll just laugh at you behind your back, as always. I
don't think that there is a guy anywhere (a normal healthy guy, not a
lard bucket latching onto female excuses) who has ever believed that BS.

PC
DJ Delorie - 13 Feb 2005 04:45 GMT
> people living in hot climates

... sweat, and sweat is salty.  They need to replace that salt.  In
normal situations, most people get enough salt in their diet without
adding more.  Some don't.  Some get too much.  So what?  Have you ever
seen a hospital check your blood salinity before giving you a saline
drip?  Of course not, because everyone has the same blood salinity.
The body regulates it.

> No fluid retention here. I have always believed that fluid retention
> was a myth, a "female" myth.

Well, it's no myth, the Tanita scales can be used to show monthly
cycles in bioimpedance independent of %bf, indicating a change in
water retention.

> Never heard a guy complain of fluid retention.

OT but I do if my PA meds stop working.  My legs swell up like
balloons.  And water retention due to glycogen stores is well
documented.  And go search misc.fitness.weights for "bloating" if you
need a couple hundred more examples.

> Ingesting sodium does not immediately change the body's
> "concentration" of sodium, you are not dumping a packet of salt into
> a tub of water.

Of course not, but the body has to do *something* to dilute that
sodium eventually.  Given that I was commenting on someone who thought
that a pound of weight gain required over a pound of sodium, it's
ludicrous to think that I'd need to go into excruciating detail on the
biological systems involved in sodium transport and management.

> Still, if you have come to rely on the "I'm not fat, it was the salt
> .."  schtik for your "raison d'lard", then who am I to disavow you.

*I* don't, and never said anything to imply that I did, so I can only
assume you're the type who enjoys trying to put people down, and you
made that up just to entertain yourself.  As for the lard comment, I'm
5'10" and 170 lbs, so there's not much lard on me anyway, which makes
me more sensitive to water retention (UD2 caused me about 8 lb water
retention swings each week).
Saffire - 13 Feb 2005 10:42 GMT
> I salt everything I eat, always have done, but on those odd occasions
> where I cannot get access to salt for a few days, my weight does not
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> any fat guys. In my gym, half the women complain about it, all the guys,
> instructors included, just laugh and wink at each other. It is pure BS.

Funny, I believe that it's pure BS that males are in excruciating,
incapacitating pain when they receive a REALLY hard kick (or baseball)
to the balls.  Talk about a MYTH!  I mean REALLY -- what a bunch of
crybabies -- it can't POSSIBLY hurt THAT bad!  A stubbed toe hurts
really bad for about a minute or less and then it's just sore for a
while -- maybe; it's not like any bones are broken or the strongest
muscle in the body was unceremoniously yanked open (despite herculean
efforts by said muscle to keep contracted at all costs) so something the
size of a watermelon can pass through something the size of a plantain.  
Honestly, if men had to have PERIODS, let alone give birth, the species
would die out.  It's pure BS and just an excuse to whine, right ladies?  
Salt, anyone?

Signature

Saffire
205/144/125  -  5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

warehouse - 13 Feb 2005 13:53 GMT
> > I salt everything I eat, always have done, but on those odd occasions
> > where I cannot get access to salt for a few days, my weight does not
> > change in the slightest. No fluid retention here. I have always believed
> > that fluid retention was a myth, a "female" myth. Never heard a guy

> > complain of fluid retention. Maybe fat guys do, but I have never known
> > any fat guys. In my gym, half the women complain about it, all the guys,
> > instructors included, just laugh and wink at each other. It is pure BS.
>
> Funny, I believe that it's pure BS that males are in excruciating,
snip
> Honestly, if men had to have PERIODS, let alone give birth, the species
> would die out.
snip

> --
> Saffire

Now men are a species as opposed to women?  You were sleeping through
biology.  Admit it.
GaryG - 13 Feb 2005 16:40 GMT
> > > I salt everything I eat, always have done, but on those odd
> occasions
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Now men are a species as opposed to women?  You were sleeping through
> biology.  Admit it.

And you were sleeping through her post.  She did not assert or imply that
men are a different species.  Try reading it again...slowly, and for
comprehension.

GG
GaryG - 13 Feb 2005 16:47 GMT
> > I salt everything I eat, always have done, but on those odd occasions
> > where I cannot get access to salt for a few days, my weight does not
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> would die out.  It's pure BS and just an excuse to whine, right ladies?
> Salt, anyone?

Is that really helpful to the discussion, or does it just feel comforting to
you to post a male-bashing diatribe?

Presumably, the metabolism of salt and its effects on weight and "water
retention" have been studied by real scientists (as opposed to Usenet
wannabes).  It would help your case immensely if you could post some links
to legitimate research studies that confirm and/or quantify the effect you
claimed to observe.  In the absence of this, all we have is a few unanalyzed
data points from a single individual...they tell us precisely nothing about
whether or not "water retention due to salt consumption" is a real
phenomenon, or an urban myth.

GG
Saffire - 13 Feb 2005 21:55 GMT
> > > I salt everything I eat, always have done, but on those odd occasions
> > > where I cannot get access to salt for a few days, my weight does not
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> > would die out.  It's pure BS and just an excuse to whine, right ladies?
> > Salt, anyone?

> Is that really helpful to the discussion, or does it just feel comforting to
> you to post a male-bashing diatribe?

How comforting was it for "Pedro's Cat" to bash women by reducing the
discussion of fluid retention to a female myth, bullshit, and something
that guys just laugh about?  I may have gotten a bit dramatic about it
in the wee hours of the morning, but the POINT of that bit of SATIRE was
that I obviously have no idea, nor will I EVER have any idea of just
what it feels like to be kicked in the balls, just as men will never
know what it's like to have to deal with the assorted reproductive-
associated hassles that women constantly have to deal with even when we
DON'T suffer direct violence.  Sometimes water retention has to do with
hormones and sometimes it has to do with something else, but the fact
that most men don't "get it" doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  

> Presumably, the metabolism of salt and its effects on weight and "water
> retention" have been studied by real scientists (as opposed to Usenet
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> whether or not "water retention due to salt consumption" is a real
> phenomenon, or an urban myth.

My intention with the original post was not to make some scientific
statement of fact or to whine about the temporary weight gain (or to
bash men, for that matter).  It was simply an observation meant to help
reassure some people about POSSIBLE causes of sudden, overnight weight
gains.  We often tell people in this group that excess sodium (or
whatever catchall word fits the concept) might be a factor in their
otherwise inexplicable weight gain and I decided to add some facts about
my OWN experience as an example.  It was not a scientific study and I'm
not about to go off and research it because I never intended for the
original post to be anything other than a helpful anecdote.  I even said
IN that post that the gain may or may NOT have been due to excess sodium
intake, but that seemed to be the likely culprit, based on my
experience.  It happens to be a reproducible event in my case,
regardless of the time of the month -- it happens when I eat a lot of
pepperoni, for instance.  I also said that it was NOT due to PMS and was
probably NOT hormone-related, so the attacks reducing women to objects
of ridicule in that respect were totally out of left field.  Several men
here have said that they, too, tend to gain water weight (not fat,
WEIGHT) after ingesting a lot of sodium.  If YOU want to dig around for
studies, go ahead.  I've already made my point, and then some.

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Saffire
205/144/125  -  5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

tia - 14 Feb 2005 02:52 GMT
wait .. can we get back to men being a difference species?  that would
really explain a lot :)

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>> > > I salt everything I eat, always have done, but on those odd occasions
>> > > where I cannot get access to salt for a few days, my weight does not
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
> WEIGHT) after ingesting a lot of sodium.  If YOU want to dig around for
> studies, go ahead.  I've already made my point, and then some.
Pedro's Cat - 13 Feb 2005 16:49 GMT
Wysong *~ wrote:

> X-No-Archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> ====================
> Not from post-menopausal women.  ;-)

Yes, menopause is an area where women have far worse than guys. I am
glad that we don't have that in our future. A woman reaches menopause
and her life often takes a distinct downward turn, it seems to affect
her body, her emotions and her relationships. My mother hit menopause a
few years ago, lost interest in sex etc, and my father took off with a
younger woman. Said that he could handle everything but the prospect of
another twenty or thirty years with a very second-rate sex life. I don't
like what he did, but I guess that I can understand it. My girl-friend
is four or five years off menopause, so I guess that I will find out
then.

My mother didn't put on weight or anything but she sure stopped caring
about her looks. She did everything to make him lose interest in her
sexually, told my sister that she had really lost all interest.

One of the women working for me has started really making some costly
errors, after years of being ultra-reliable. She blames it on being part
way through menopause. I am very tempted to ask her to take her long
service leave early and come back when it is over, even if I have to
subsidize her with a few thousand extra. She was one of my top employees
before this started, I'd like to get her back the way she was.

Yep, I am really glad that it isn't a guy thing.

PC
Wysong *~ - 13 Feb 2005 18:13 GMT
> Wysong *~ wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> and her life often takes a distinct downward turn, it seems to affect
> her body, her emotions and her relationships.

## Only "some" women.  But then some women will react negatively to aging
anyway, as do so many men.

My mother hit menopause a
> few years ago, lost interest in sex etc, and my father took off with a
> younger woman.

##  The loss of interest in sex can be treated with hormones these days.
Also, it appears to be temporary in many women.  There is a lot of
information on menopause on the net, some of it very misleading.  My
biggest, most annoying problem was the hot flashes so I took HRT.

Said that he could handle everything but the prospect of
> another twenty or thirty years with a very second-rate sex life.

##  That sounds pretty selfish to me.  It also sounds like he didn't LOVE
her very much either.  What happens when Viagra no longer works for him?
Will  he commit suicide rather than live with a second-rate or no sex life?
What will he do when his younger partner takes off for a "real" man, a
younger man who can still perform sexually?

I don't
> like what he did, but I guess that I can understand it. My girl-friend
> is four or five years off menopause, so I guess that I will find out
> then.

##  Lets hope your girlfriend knows more than your mother did about
menopause and hormonal treatment.

> My mother didn't put on weight or anything but she sure stopped caring
> about her looks. She did everything to make him lose interest in her
> sexually, told my sister that she had really lost all interest.

## No offense but it sounds like your mother needed professional help with
both her physical and emotional/mental problems at the time.  What you're
describing sounds more like a case of untreated depression and normal
hormonal changes.

> One of the women working for me has started really making some costly
> errors, after years of being ultra-reliable. She blames it on being part
> way through menopause. I am very tempted to ask her to take her long
> service leave early and come back when it is over,

## Or you could suggest she see a Dr. who specializes in handling difficult
menopause cases.  There's no reason for a women's life to fall apart during
or after menopause.

even if I have to
> subsidize her with a few thousand extra. She was one of my top employees
> before this started, I'd like to get her back the way she was.

> Yep, I am really glad that it isn't a guy thing.

##  Guys have their own problems as they age.  Impotency that doesn't
respond to treatment is one of them.  Difficulty adjusting to loss of looks,
energy and ability plus a mixed bag of health issues plagues them.  Some are
very distressed when they go bald.  Wives leave them for other men just like
men leave wives for younger women.  Growing old is not the most pleasant
experiences either men or woman face.
Signature

Wysong
Age 60.  Height 5'6"
Starting date: 1/8/05
171/ 165 / 140 lb
Starting date LC 7/01 at 207lbs
Stopped losing on LC 11/01 at 165lbs
==========================================
Crap - I forgot to get my official stamp of approval and sign the
little document promising only to have thoughts that conform to the
official ASDLC guidelines.
I hate it when that happens. (credit Sophie)
~~<~~<~~{@  ~~<~~<~~{@  ~~<~~<~~{@

tia - 14 Feb 2005 02:55 GMT
hrt can lead to a lot of complications and i for one wont be taking the
garbage.  people in america are very ready to just take a bunch of pills
whenever possible.  if youre on HRT and youre not losing weight, i dont
wanna know about it anymore, that might be one of the biggest problems.  im
on bcp's right now and its interfering a little bit.. only 14lbs lost in 3
weeks..... to me thats good even tho i used to lose faster than that in the
beginning.

Signature

_____________________________
This be Tia's SIG!!! YAY!

> X-No-Archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
> men leave wives for younger women.  Growing old is not the most pleasant
> experiences either men or woman face.
 
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