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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / February 2005My LC Dog
I put my dogs on the BARF diet about 8 months ago. The fat dog started losing weight after about 3 weeks and did very well. She has hit a plateau and is not losing anymore pounds. My question is this.... Does anyone know if there are carbs in bones. I'm only supposed to give her a bone once a week. but sometimes it's convenient to give her more. Also I'm supposed to make her fast on day per week, But when I do that she takes more of an interest in how the cat smells :) any help is help Patti > I put my dogs on the BARF diet about 8 months ago. The fat dog started > losing weight after about 3 weeks and did very well. She has hit a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > more. Also I'm supposed to make her fast on day per week, But when I > do that she takes more of an interest in how the cat smells :) Chances are good you're going to get some responses warning of your dog's imminent doom due to eating bones. <g> The carb count of bones is an interesting question, but do you really need to worry about it for your dogs? I'm under the impression that BARF prescribes certain mineral ratios that can only be achieved by feeding x amount of bones. Anyway, more power to you. I've wanted to put my dog on BARF for a while, but don't have the time to do it right. Whose plan do you follow? Would you mind posting a sample daily menu? Cate >Would you mind posting a sample daily menu? > >Cate My dogs eat one of the following, twice per day. 1/2 pig foot chicken back (spine included) chicken breast (frozen and thawed by way of the microwave) hamburger patty (frozen and thawed) 1/4 pound pork roast (cut up) 1/4 pound beef stew meat 2 oxtails pieces marrow bones salad greens w/"carb options" french dressing and tomatoes 3 ounces of cheddar cheese pieces cooked broccoli (cooked is the only way they like it) carrots (slightly cooked with splenda and cinnamon) don't ask! They usually eat a salad on my days off fish is expensive. About 1/2 of dogs are allergic to at least one type of fish. (this is what I'm told) so far they are not allergic. all of their meals are cut up (usually the butcher is available to do it for me) and most are frozen. I move their food to the fridge for thawing 3 days prior to serving. I don't slow thaw the patties or the chicken breasts. Most foods have to be placed on the counter, Still in the plastic, for about 1 hour to bring it down to room temperature. Or use the thaw setting on the micro. It took three months to move them to raw food. Don't worry about raw bones. Only cooked bones hurt dogs. Your vet might tell you that dogs can suffer food poisoning the same as humans. My only rebuttal is that packaged dog food has only been around for maybe 100 years, and there is NO way a dog's metabolism has evolved in that span of time to eat kibble, corn, wheat or rice as a main staple. (that's how they keep the dog fod affordable) It costs me about 12.00 per week to feed two beagles. Patti [...] Thanks for all the info. > fish is expensive. About 1/2 of dogs are allergic to at least one type > of fish. (this is what > > I'm told) so far they are not allergic. I've heard from other BARFers that people often feed canned mackerel--cheap and stinkylicious for the dogs. > It took three months to move them to raw food. Don't worry about raw > bones. Only cooked bones [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > rice as a main staple. (that's how they keep the dog fod affordable) Yep, this has been my thinking too. My dog's on a dry food that has few ingredients, no corn, and no wheat, but I still want to get him off processed kibble. I sometimes give him chicken necks or organ meat when I'm cleaning a chicken for dinner. He's always reluctant, but that could be because it's so cold from being in the fridge. > It costs me about 12.00 per week to feed two beagles. Not terrible. I bet the extra cost is worth it. Thanks, Cate I sometimes give him chicken necks or organ meat when I'm >cleaning a chicken for dinner. He's always reluctant, but that could be >because it's so cold from being in the fridge. He's probably reluctant because it makes him go outside and ralph. unless you give them a small amount of raw food everyday. they cannot tolerate it. this is why it took me three months to move them over. my very fat dog kept bringing it back up. then her survival mechanism would kick in that told her not to eat anything that smelled like whatever made her sick, so she'd refuse it. As long as I used the "natural pet" BARF food mixed with her canned food, she tolerated it just fine, but when I gave her beef or porkfrom the store it came back up. then I mixed a tablespoon of raw burger in with the BARF/IAMS mix and it got better. then I increased it until she accepted a whole slightly cooked burger. funny they eat raw everything, but she still wants her burger slightly cooked. so whatever the thaw cycle on the micro does to her burger patties is acceptable to her. Patti > He's probably reluctant because it makes him go outside and ralph. No, he's a lab. <g> Hardly anything ever comes back up--whether it's months-old deer carcass, a raw chicken heart, or the occasional small piece of wood. My suspicion is that he prefers his 'people food' cooked because the smell of cooked meat is what he's used to. Cate > No, he's a lab. <g> Hardly anything ever comes back up--whether it's > months-old deer carcass, a raw chicken heart, or the occasional small > piece of wood. http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/dogsinelk.html#dogs KeS Kevin_Stevens@hotmail.com wrote in news:Pine.OSX.4.58.0502181029550.16942 @onorysvfu.chefhrq-jvgu.arg: > http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/dogsinelk.html#dogs OMG. I've known and loved Dogs in Elk for several years. Anyone who owns a dog should read it. It's a discussion group exchange whose main contributor is a woman whose dogs have taken up residence inside the carcass of a dead elk and are eating their way out. And her family's coming for the holiday weekend. Cate > carrots (slightly cooked with splenda and cinnamon) don't ask! LOL! Don't tell my dogs or they'll want theirs cooked like that too! anka It's always been my understanding that dogs can't digest veggies that aren't cooked a bit. I do cook the veggies that I put in my dogs food for that reason. YMMV -- Cheri >> carrots (slightly cooked with splenda and cinnamon) don't ask! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups >----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- > It's always been my understanding that dogs can't digest veggies that > aren't cooked a bit. I do cook the veggies that I put in my dogs food > for that reason. YMMV We pulverize the raw vegetables (kale, carrots, greens, stuff like that)for that reason, but also feed canned cooked pumpkin (NOT pie mix). Mixed with a small amount of vinegar. It simulates prey stomach contents. anka > I put my dogs on the BARF diet about 8 months ago. The fat dog started > losing weight after about 3 weeks and did very well. She has hit a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > more. Also I'm supposed to make her fast on day per week, But when I > do that she takes more of an interest in how the cat smells :) I'm curious as to why you want to know about the carbs in bones? The "once a week" bone should be a recreational bone, a large heavy one that isn't likely to get consumed for the most part (except for the marrow). My two German Shepherd Dogs usually get a couple of beef leg bones once a week or so, and they never finish them by the time it's time for new ones. In addition, consumable raw meaty bones should be fed daily with a proportionate amount of muscle meat. Chicken frames, wings, necks, and so forth. We also feed small amounts of finely ground vegetables, which would, of course, contain carbs. Our dogs also take a great interest in the cats on the days they are fasting. They love the cat food so much. The cats get cat chow -- and it comes out pretty much the same as it went in. Or at least the dogs think so. :^P~  Signatureanka >In addition, consumable raw meaty bones should be fed daily with a >proportionate amount of muscle meat. Chicken frames, wings, necks, and so [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >comes out pretty much the same as it went in. Or at least the dogs think so. >:^P~ Hehehe, My dogs love the cat poo snacks also, but they stopped eating out of the cat box after i put them on BARF. The bones i feed them are the consumable bones. They are beagles and it takes them about 2 hours to eat the entire meal. The marrow bones are just too difficult. unless I find the vertibrae bones. when we increased the meaty bones the fat dog stalled on her weight loss. Patti > Our dogs also take a great interest in the cats on the days they are > fasting. They love the cat food so much. The cats get cat chow -- and it > comes out pretty much the same as it went in. Or at least the dogs think > so. > :^P~ Cats should be on a BARF style raw-diet even more than dogs. Dogs, in the wild, are a good bit more omnivorous than cats. Cats shouldn't have ANY carbs at all, except the smallest amount of greens or seeds w/ some digestive enzymes added to them (to simulate food in a rodent or bird gut). That being said, I can't ge my cats to convert...and I've been worknig at it for months :\ If there's even 1 teaspoon of raw food in their normal food, they'll choose to fast rather than eat :\ Suggestions appreciated. Peace, Pen > Cats should be on a BARF style raw-diet even more than dogs. Dogs, in the > wild, are a good bit more omnivorous than cats. Cats shouldn't have ANY > carbs at all, except the smallest amount of greens or seeds w/ some > digestive enzymes added to them (to simulate food in a rodent or bird gut). You're absolutely right. I just have never gotten around to switching the cats over. Our GSDs are working dogs that we are trying to title, and we've fed them BARF from day one, whereas the cats started on kibble and canned and... well, they just lay around. > That being said, I can't ge my cats to convert...and I've been worknig at it > for months :\ If there's even 1 teaspoon of raw food in their normal food, > they'll choose to fast rather than eat :\ Suggestions appreciated. Is it served at room temperature? Some cats won't touch cold food. At the animal hospital I used to work at, we actually warmed leftover canned cat food for the picky eaters. (Talk about gross...!) On the other hand, it seems that if cold were the problem, your cats would still eat the normal food at least... ::shrug:: I dunno! anka > Is it served at room temperature? i've tried room temp, hot, cold, frozen...nothing. i'm pulling my hair out :\ peace, pen > Cats should be on a BARF style raw-diet even more than dogs. Dogs, in > the wild, are a good bit more omnivorous than cats. Cats shouldn't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > normal food, they'll choose to fast rather than eat :\ Suggestions > appreciated. Suggestions: raw food at room temperature or slightly warm. Zap food in microwave for 5-8 seconds, stir, then 5-8 more seconds to warm it if it's cold from the fridge. Feed organic meat (especially chicken) - organic meat just tastes better. My two cats do not like the supermarket chicken injected with salt water (neither do I - it smells bad to me). Try chunked meat and ground meat to determine if they have a preference. Mine like ground meat only if it's fresh. Once it's frozen and thawed they don't like it. Generally I feed chunked meat. Try to determine individual preferences. My one cat loves liver; my other cat doesn't like it and will snub a whole dish of food just because there's one small piece of liver in it. I have to find and remove the liver before she'll eat her meal. Try different types of meat - lamb, beef, chicken, rabbit. Try mixing with a favorite stinky canned food, such as Fancy Feast. I feed twice a day at scheduled times. The food is presented and left down for them for approx. 10 minutes. Usually they finish eating in less than 5 minutes. If for some reason they turn their noses up at it (and I can't determine a specific reason like misplaced piece of liver or cat feeling ill), I put it back in the fridge until the next feeding time. Believe me, they are very aware that if they don't eat breakfast they will have to wait 11 hours until dinner, so in general they eat quite heartily! Finally, sometimes it comes down to a matter of wills. If you really want the cats to switch over, you may have to let them fast for one to several days. Attempt this only if your cats are in good health. You will have to be strong and not give in, otherwise you reward them for being finicky. My experience is by the end of the second day they are ready to eat again. Dee >> Cats should be on a BARF style raw-diet even more than dogs. Dogs, in >> the wild, are a good bit more omnivorous than cats. Cats shouldn't [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > My two cats do not like the supermarket chicken injected with salt water > (neither do I - it smells bad to me). i can't afford it. :\ > Try chunked meat and ground meat to determine if they have a preference. > Mine like ground meat only if it's fresh. Once it's frozen and thawed > they > don't like it. Generally I feed chunked meat. i HAVE noticed that i can get them to eat a bite or two when it's chunky, you're dead on there. but it's still a losing battle :\ > Try to determine individual preferences. My one cat loves liver; my other > cat doesn't like it and will snub a whole dish of food just because > there's > one small piece of liver in it. I have to find and remove the liver > before > she'll eat her meal. yes, liver has been an issue :P most definitely. i too had to remove it, mine are like 'uh, NO. just no.' then i worry they're not getting the organ meat they need? > Try different types of meat - lamb, beef, chicken, rabbit. ground beef is accepted better than anything else. chicken is ok as long as i don't put bone meal in it...eaten happily in fact..but they need the calcium/phosphorous. do you have any suggestions on getting the calcium/phosphorous in without the bone meal? > Try mixing with a favorite stinky canned food, such as Fancy Feast. i do that...i can get them to eat a little bit that way, but i really want them off the ick. :\ i've tried gradually increasing a teaspoon, two teaspoons, a tablespoon...they generally stop eating at around 2-3 tablespoons of raw food mixed into a full can of other stuff. i sat at that level for more than a month, and couldn't get them to budge past it. > I feed twice a day at scheduled times. The food is presented and left > down > for them for approx. 10 minutes. i free feed. i probably shouldn't, but i do. they always seem happier that way and they're never overweight, so... > Finally, sometimes it comes down to a matter of wills. If you really want > the cats to switch over, you may have to let them fast for one to several [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > My > experience is by the end of the second day they are ready to eat again. not in good health. one is, the other isn't. i'd rather see the sick one eating ANYTHING than nothing. :\ cats are one of the few animals known to starve themselves to death because of a dislike for food available too. peace, pen > ground beef is accepted better than anything else. chicken is ok as long as > i don't put bone meal in it...eaten happily in fact..but they need the > calcium/phosphorous. do you have any suggestions on getting the > calcium/phosphorous in without the bone meal? grind up boiled eggs, still in the shell >> ground beef is accepted better than anything else. chicken is ok as long > as [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > grind up boiled eggs, still in the shell I read about eggshells, but there was some objection to using cooked eggs (and fully raw ones for that matter). What are your thoughts on using fully cooked eggs? Peace, Pen > > grind up boiled eggs, still in the shell > > I read about eggshells, but there was some objection to using cooked eggs > (and fully raw ones for that matter). What are your thoughts on using fully > cooked eggs? I guess I never heard or read any objection to it. My cats diet was never raw, though. Everything in it was cooked. It's been a while, I need to start making their food again, their coats got so shiny and healthy looking when they were on it. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes >> > grind up boiled eggs, still in the shell >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > looking > when they were on it. Ahhh..thanks. I'm pretty convinced that cooking their meat is really detrimental to them, and why they end up hyperthyroid and with kidney failure. They just aren't meant to handle it... I swear, all my kittens from this day forth, will never know canned food, kibble, or cooked meat... Learned my lesson this time around ... it's VERY hard to get a sick 15 year old boy to up and eat a new diet :P Peace, Pen ----------- Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats! http://www.pawbreakers.com I switched my dog to low carb, but not raw. He stopped gaining, but did not lose any weight. I spoil my dog. He often eats better than I do. |
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