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Three weeks in to low carb - limited progress

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kipper_fillet@hotmail.com - 29 Jul 2005 21:09 GMT
I started low-carbing about 3 weeks ago.  I cut all refined
carbohydrates from my diet.  No bread, no pasta, no rice, no potatoes.
I've had problems with cravings in the past for bread in particular.

I also stopped taking sugar in my coffee - although I have lapsed on
this because I couldn't stand the aftertaste from Splenda etc. but I
have cut down from 1tsp down to around 1/3 tsp or less.  I could
probably cut it out altogether if need be.  I don't have any sugar at
all.

Alcohol consumption very light apart from a couple of rather heavy
nights out - but these are rare.

I drink too much caffeine (mostly from the diet drinks - Pepsi Max
etc.)

Diet heavy on meat, fish, cheese, eggs, natural yoghurt, some nuts + a
(hopefully) reasonable amount of salad & vegetables.  Few root
vegetables (carrots, etc.) - but quite a few tomatoes, peppers,
courgettes (zucchini for US readers - I'm in the UK), etc.

The first week and a half were a real struggle - I had no energy, aches
& pains and a more or less constant headache and a feeling of
lightheadedness.  I've had this happen before but this time I decided
to grit my teeth and hope that these problems disappeared.  Luckily, I
am feeling much better now and what is really noticeable is that my
appetite has reduced sharply.  I am essentially eating when I'm hungry
but I think I'm averaging around 2000 cals a day or perhaps slightly
less - which should presumably see me losing weight (I am 6ft 2in tall
and around 110kg/245 pounds).

However I don't sense any weight loss.

What could I be doing wrong?  Or is it too early to really notice & am
I being a little impatient?  Unfortunately I don't own a pair of scales
so I've no direct way of knowing if I've lost weight - I'm having to
rely on indirect measures like how tight the belt on my trousers is,
etc.

Grateful for any advice/suggestions.
kipper_fillet@hotmail.com - 29 Jul 2005 21:15 GMT
...I also stopped taking sugar in my coffee - although I have lapsed on

this because I couldn't stand the aftertaste from Splenda etc. but I
have cut down from 1tsp down to around 1/3 tsp or less.  I could
probably cut it out altogether if need be.

*** I don't have any sugar at all APART FROM THAT ***
Mark - 30 Jul 2005 07:02 GMT
> ...I also stopped taking sugar in my coffee - although I have lapsed on
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> *** I don't have any sugar at all APART FROM THAT ***

You got to go into carb debt ( less than 20 a day) to kick your body into
the carb burning machine, give up the sugar and alcohol, get serious or go
home.
tunderbar@hotmail.com - 29 Jul 2005 21:48 GMT
> I started low-carbing about 3 weeks ago.  I cut all refined
> carbohydrates from my diet.  No bread, no pasta, no rice, no potatoes.
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> Grateful for any advice/suggestions.

One of the best ways of gauging weight loss is by tape measure. You
should have measured your waist, hips, wrists, upper arms, thighs,
etc.when you began and maybe twice a week thereafter. You may want to
start now, if you haven't. The numbers really let's you know where you
stand.

Cut out the diet soda. It isn't helping. It still tricks the body into
excess insulin production which slows weight loss. Also cut down the
caffeine as much as you can reasonably handle. A good b vitamin
complex, stress formula, one or two every day, in the morning, with
food, will help you with the caffeine and the carb withdrawal.

Good luck and let us know your progress.

TC
JC Der Koenig - 29 Jul 2005 21:51 GMT
>  I am essentially eating when I'm hungry
> but I think I'm averaging around 2000 cals a day or perhaps slightly
> less

So you don't know how much you're eating, you're just guessing.

> However I don't sense any weight loss.

Try eating less.
Bev-Ann - 29 Jul 2005 22:01 GMT
Drop the root veggies and tomatoes until you're further along.  They are
fairly high in carbs.  The zucchini and green peppers are ok.  Stick with
things like lettuce, broccoli, cauliflower, etc.  Completely drop the
alcohol until you've lost all the weight you're trying to.  Alcohol is
burned by the body before anything else so you can't burn fat as long as
there's alcohol in your system.  And caffeine will spike blood sugar if you
drink it within 2 hours of eating.  The focus of low-carb is to regulate
your body's insulin response.  So switch to decaf coffee and colas if you
can.
You should be able to find a lot of online lists of low-carb foods if you
do a google search.  The USDA website is excellent for looking things up if
you're not sure about them.  The site does not subtract fibre from the
carbs, though, so you'll have to do that yourself.  Try to keep your net
carbs (carbs minus fibre) under 45g/day while you're losing weight.
Here's a link to the USDA website:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/index.html

>I started low-carbing about 3 weeks ago.  I cut all refined
>carbohydrates from my diet.  No bread, no pasta, no rice, no potatoes.
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
>Grateful for any advice/suggestions.

-----
Bev
Saffire - 29 Jul 2005 22:24 GMT
*** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- it's appearance
in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. ***

> I started low-carbing about 3 weeks ago.  

Others have already advised you on this, so I'm just chiming in to say
welcome to the group!

Signature

Saffire
205/134/125
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

*** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- it's appearance
in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. ***

Bailey's Girl - 29 Jul 2005 22:31 GMT
>I started low-carbing about 3 weeks ago.  I cut all refined
>carbohydrates from my diet.  No bread, no pasta, no rice, no potatoes.
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
>Grateful for any advice/suggestions.

Is there a particular low carb program you're following?  If so, which
is it?  I'm not completely familiar with all of them and don't
recognize this one that you've described.  I'm most familiar with
Atkins, but you haven't described that.  

Possible problems that jump out to me are:  sugar, alcohol, caffeine,
root veggies.  

Yogurt doesn't cause a problem for me (i.e. doesn't knock me out of
ketosis), but I only have about a cup a week with some berries.  

Just my $0.02 -- YMMV -- and good luck to you.  

July Goals:    BGL normal range; Not hungry, don't eat
Weight:        21 pounds gone (whoop!)
Measurements:  8 inches gone 06/19/2005
Cholesterol:   145
FBG:           <100 since 07/01/2005  A1c 6.8!
kipper_fillet@hotmail.com - 29 Jul 2005 22:43 GMT
When I said "few root vegetables" I meant "very few" rather than "a
few".  Sorry - original posting slightly ambiguous.  Caffeine could be
a problem, admittedly.  Sugar is perhaps 5g a day - would such a small
amount cause problems?  Alcohol I know is a no-no.  I have only drunk
alcohol once this week but unfortunately it was quite a large amount.
One of my objectives is to keep alcohol consumption very low.

I'm basically trying to follow something resembling Atkins - the
induction phase.  Think so anyway.

My 2000 cals per day estimate is fairly accurate I think.  Some days a
little more, some days a little less.
Lass Chance_2 - 30 Jul 2005 00:01 GMT
I forgot to mention---this is a VERY handy tool.  Enter every food and
the amount---and it will tell you your cals, carbs, fats and proteins
(alcohol, too).  Lots of other cool fuunctions, too--

http://fitday.com

Lass
Bailey's Girl - 30 Jul 2005 00:50 GMT
>When I said "few root vegetables" I meant "very few" rather than "a
>few".  Sorry - original posting slightly ambiguous.  Caffeine could be
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>My 2000 cals per day estimate is fairly accurate I think.  Some days a
>little more, some days a little less.

Speaking only for myself, of course --

The weight loss that occurs during the induction phase is generally
mostly water, and the more weight you have to lose in the first place,
the more you'll lose in that first two weeks.  Then, as you move into
OWL, your weight loss will, and should, slow down.  

But you're defeating the purposes of induction, and not getting the
results you expected, by "following something resembling Atkins".  

If you don't have the book (and I would recommend you get it if you
don't already have it), there are several sites that list the allowed
induction foods.  It sounds like you're trying to "play the game"
without "following the rules".  You can still play like that, of
course, but you'd be playing a different game.  :-)

I hope this doesn't come off as snarky, because I really don't intend
it to be.  I've just met too many people who say they "tried Atkins
and it didn't work", but a short conversation with them reveals they
never really tried it at all.  The first step is to follow the rules
for induction, and then *after* that add your other foods in calculted
amounts and ways to see how they affect you and your weight loss.

If it hasn't been mentioned already, you might want to check out
fitday.com (it's free).  You can keep track of what you're eating and
really evaluate where you are and what you're doing.  This will help
you measure everything and you might find that, aside from eating some
things that aren't on the induction list, that you're actually
consuming more food than you think you are.  For me, my portions have
been pretty much cut in half since I started using Fitday to keep
track of everything -- I found that I could get by with a lot less
food.  "Eyeballing" didn't work for me at all.  

Also, if you aren't weighing or measuring, you don't have any facts
there, either, to help you figure out what works and what doesn't.  

As far as your fatigue goes, Dr. Atkins mentions this specifically as
a side effect of induction and I can tell you that he didn't lie -- I
was basically in a chair for three days and barely able to move. LOL!
After that, though, my energy level has increased fabulously. I look
at induction as a kind of "body boot camp", which gets the job done
quickly.  If you're trying to "roll your own" induction scenario, it
won't work like that and that may be why you're feeling the way you
are instead of "getting over it" in just a few days?  

And finally, there are many other low-carb plans out there -- South
Beach, Protein Power, Sugar Busters, for example.  Atkins works for
me, and keeps my BGL's in line, which is my main goal, so I haven't
felt the need to "explore".  But if you find Atkins too restrictive,
you might want to check out some of the others and find a plan that
"feels right" for you.  

I know this is long, but I really hope it helps and I wish you the
best of luck.  :-)

July Goals:    BGL normal range; Not hungry, don't eat
Weight:        21 pounds gone (whoop!)
Measurements:  8 inches gone 06/19/2005
Cholesterol:   145
FBG:           <100 since 07/01/2005  A1c 6.8!
Bev-Ann - 30 Jul 2005 01:20 GMT
It does sound like the OP is following more of a Protein Power type of
approach.  It's 2-week intervention period is 30g net carbs with no
restrictions on types foods eaten, but you must avoid sugar.  The next
phase is 45g to 55g net carbs, depending on your metabolism, until your
goal is reached.  It worked very well for me.

on Fri, 29 Jul 2005 18:50:55 -0500, Bailey's Girl
<baileys_girl_nospam_@hotpop.com> wrote:

>And finally, there are many other low-carb plans out there -- South
>Beach, Protein Power, Sugar Busters, for example.  Atkins works for
>me, and keeps my BGL's in line, which is my main goal, so I haven't
>felt the need to "explore".  But if you find Atkins too restrictive,
>you might want to check out some of the others and find a plan that
>"feels right" for you.  

-----
Bev
Bailey's Girl - 30 Jul 2005 04:38 GMT
>It does sound like the OP is following more of a Protein Power type of
>approach.  It's 2-week intervention period is 30g net carbs with no
>restrictions on types foods eaten, but you must avoid sugar.  The next
>phase is 45g to 55g net carbs, depending on your metabolism, until your
>goal is reached.  It worked very well for me.

Thanks, Bev.  It's been a long time since I read the Protein Power
book.  The details escape me, but I did remember it was less
restrictive.  :-)

July Goals:    BGL normal range; Not hungry, don't eat
Weight:        21 pounds gone (whoop!)
Measurements:  8 inches gone 06/19/2005
Cholesterol:   145
FBG:           <100 since 07/01/2005  A1c 6.8!
Lass Chance_2 - 29 Jul 2005 23:17 GMT
It might be the carrots and tomatoes---both have plenty of sugar.
Also...from my own experience, I can tell you that even a few drinks
with alcohol can and will slow down your loss TREMENDOUSLY. I hated
givng up my daily wine....but when I did, my loss doubled in the same
time period--a wekk while drinking white zinfandel would give me a loss
of 11/2 pounds, while NO wine at all gave me a 3-4 pound loss, in the
early weeks of low carbing.

It may be a good idea to follow the Atkins 2 week Induction to the
letter---this will give you your best results.
You will learn which veggies are lowest in carbs and which ones to
avoid.

Basically, meat, eggs, cheese and a salad made with three cups of mixed
greens, NO tomatoes NO peppers  NO onions OR a salad with two cups of
greens plus one cup of, say, spinaceh, or broccoli, or zuchinni or
yellow squash.....will do the trick. Feel free to have Bleu cheese
dressing, or any LoCarb creamy dressing, or vinagrette. NO alcohol for a
least the first two weeks.

Do you use a carb counter to really know how many gms of carb you're
taking in?
It's surprising to discover that onions, for instance, have a
significant amount of carbs!  Who would expect that?  You'll be
surprised to find that many foods you wouldnt expect to have carbs, do.
Type "carb counter" into your search engine and you'll find a dozen or
more on-line counters.

The Atkins 2 week Induction aims for 20 gms of carb a day. This WILL
give you a substantial loss in the first two weeks.

Investing in a bathroom scale and writing down your measurements are a
good idea, too.

Good luck!

LassChance
dr_ernie_primeau@yahoo.ca - 29 Jul 2005 23:35 GMT
 All I can tell you is my own experience.

 I started LC-ing on 4/27/05, I did a strict Atkins Induction for the
first 2 weeks, and I now eat primarily meat, cheese, eggs, low-carb
veggies, low carb fruit, nuts, the occasional Atkins frankenfood
product, and I drink lots of coffee (always black), and I probably
drink more booze than you (although always either Michelob Ultra,
Amstel Light, or straight vodka, and typically never more than 1-2
drinks per day). I've lost nearly 25 pounds at this point, which I am
extremely pleased about.

 I'm noticing you're eating yoghurt, carrots, and you haven't
completely cut out added sugar. This could easily stall you.

 Also, you don't mention if you excercise. One thing I did when I
started this diet is I redoubled my excercise efforts. You really wont
lose much (if any) if you don't exercise.

> I started low-carbing about 3 weeks ago.  I cut all refined
> carbohydrates from my diet.  No bread, no pasta, no rice, no potatoes.
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> Grateful for any advice/suggestions.
Tom G - 30 Jul 2005 03:12 GMT
> I started low-carbing about 3 weeks ago.  I cut all refined
> carbohydrates from my diet.  No bread, no pasta, no rice, no potatoes.

  Good.

> I've had problems with cravings in the past for bread in particular.

  I used to eat a fair amount of bread. It's the only item I really missed.

> I also stopped taking sugar in my coffee - although I have lapsed on
> this because I couldn't stand the aftertaste from Splenda etc. but I
> have cut down from 1tsp down to around 1/3 tsp or less.  I could
> probably cut it out altogether if need be.  I don't have any sugar at
> all.

 Before low carbing, I drank coffee with 2 rounded tsp of sugar. Now it's
just with cream. It took about 6 weeks to get used to it that way.

> Alcohol consumption very light apart from a couple of rather heavy
> nights out - but these are rare.

  I used to drink rum and coke, now it's vodka or rum and soda ( actually
Super Store's bubbly spring water ). Alcohol has calories, so make sure
you're counting those too in your estimates of total daily calorie intake.
The body needs to burn the alcohol off before using another fuel, so you may
be thwarting your efforts (stalling) if you drink too much.

> I drink too much caffeine (mostly from the diet drinks - Pepsi Max
> etc.)

 Although caffeine is not recommended, I never found any problems with it.
You might want to dump the diet drinks in favor of green tea or just plain
water.

> Diet heavy on meat, fish, cheese, eggs, natural yoghurt, some nuts + a
> (hopefully) reasonable amount of salad & vegetables.  Few root
> vegetables (carrots, etc.) - but quite a few tomatoes, peppers,
> courgettes (zucchini for US readers - I'm in the UK), etc.

  How heavy on the meats? Would you say you are eating a lot more? I found
that my meat portions were about the same as before dieting. I just replaced
the high carb items with 3 cups of salad veggies spread throughout the day.
The only increase in protein was mainly eggs for breakfast. In the past, my
breakfasts were usually very high carb.

> The first week and a half were a real struggle - I had no energy, aches
> & pains and a more or less constant headache and a feeling of
> lightheadedness.

  Same here. Even after the first couple of weeks I didn't feel 100%. I
never felt the boundless energy that Atkins describes. The first 2 weeks was
definitely because of getting used to functioning without carbs. Others may
not have felt the same way, but it just made sense to me that if I was
reducing my calories below what I needed, I would feel rotten. I didn't feel
good on low calorie/low fat diets either. Since my hunger was reduced, I was
able to tolerate the once in a while lightheadedness.
  This was actually sort of a gauge for me. If I was feeling a little weak,
it was likely that I was eating less than I needed and losing weight. If I
felt really good, then I was probably eating enough for maintenance, or too
much and possibly gaining. My weightloss seemed more consistent if I made
sure I was eating enough to be a little hungry by my next meal. If I wasn't
hungry by the next meal, then I would reduce portion sizes a little to make
sure I was next time.

> I've had this happen before but this time I decided
> to grit my teeth and hope that these problems disappeared.  Luckily, I
> am feeling much better now and what is really noticeable is that my
> appetite has reduced sharply.

  Yes, that sounds pretty close to the way I was feeling, and then an
improvement after a couple of weeks. The reduction in feelings of hunger
helped a great deal with being able to stick with the plan. On other diets I
felt more hunger and it would be difficult to limit portions.

> I am essentially eating when I'm hungry
> but I think I'm averaging around 2000 cals a day or perhaps slightly
> less - which should presumably see me losing weight (I am 6ft 2in tall
> and around 110kg/245 pounds).

 I was averaging 1500 to 1800 per day while I was dieting. I don't no how
active you are, but if you have a sedentary office job and don't exercise,
you may have to go lower than 2000. It would be a good idea to track your
calories for a few weeks. You may be under estimating the amounts you're
eating or simply eating too much for your activity level.
  I find that the standard guides of how many calories you should be
eating, like 8, 10, or 12 calories per pound are useless. If you are not
losing, then you are eating too much. If you are fat, you don't need to eat
extra to feed the fat which doesn't do a heck of a lot in the first place. I
think the estimates would be better if it were based on what a person's lean
weight should be.

> However I don't sense any weight loss.

 Patience. You may have to examine what you're eating and then go a little
less. I don't think the weakness and light headedness will get worse if you
reduce a little more. It's hard to feel weightloss or gain if you don't have
an accurate gauge.

> What could I be doing wrong?  Or is it too early to really notice & am
> I being a little impatient?  Unfortunately I don't own a pair of scales
> so I've no direct way of knowing if I've lost weight - I'm having to
> rely on indirect measures like how tight the belt on my trousers is,
> etc.

  Scales are quite cheap. You will feel better watching your progress as
the weeks go by. I weigh myself every day to make sure I'm not gaining. By
the time you feel a tightness in your belt, you could have gained 10 lbs. I
can wear size 34 pants from 180 to 195. After that, I have to go up a size.
  It's easier to nip it in the bud if you notice a slight gain every
morning. I would think it works in reverse as well, that a more than 10 lb
loss would be needed before you "felt" it on your belt. You could be down 10
lbs and not be aware of it. Since weightloss is somewhat slow, it would be
tough to feel that you are slightly smaller. Go get a scale!

> Grateful for any advice/suggestions.
Doug Freyburger - 31 Jul 2005 20:11 GMT
> I started low-carbing about 3 weeks ago ...
> ...
> However I don't sense any weight loss.

What does this mean exactly?  You need to step on the scale
when you start and a couple of weeks later to be able to
tell if you've actually lost or not.  "Sense" could mean
anything.

> What could I be doing wrong?

If you're depending on what you look like in the mirror,
the fact that you look in the mirror every morning tends
to smooth out any apparent change.  I'd lost two belt
notches and 20+ pounds before I could see any change at
all in the mirror.  But *other* folks noticed.  They
could "sense" weight loss that my own image in the mirror
couldn't.

Tape measure - best.  Scale - second best.  One of the
other is really needed.

As to a change in energy level and such, all that's
common in the first couple of weeks as is a return to
usual by the end of the first two weeks.
JC Der Koenig - 31 Jul 2005 20:42 GMT
> Tape measure - best.  Scale - second best.  One of the
> other is really needed.

Wrong.

A tape measure can more easily give false readings than a scale.
Luna - 31 Jul 2005 22:00 GMT
> > I started low-carbing about 3 weeks ago ...
> > ...
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Tape measure - best.  Scale - second best.  One of the
> other is really needed.

Nah, best is a pair of too small, non-stretch jeans.  When you can zip
them up, you know you've lost weight.

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