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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / August 2005Fitday/motorcycling/fat/fat/fat - comments?
Yesterday I rode my motorbike through Belgium and France for about 8 hours. Motorcycling is quite a physical activity - surprisingly so, in fact. After a day in the saddle my arms, shoulders and legs are very tired - particularly since the riding was quite "spirited" - flicking the bike through the bends along twisty country roads, sometimes at the sort of speeds that would have me losing my licence if I were caught by the Police in the UK. When I got home last night I caught up on a few emails etc. and afterwards I had a look at the FitDay site for the first time & decided to give it a try. So day one was yesterday. Motocycling is in the list of "activities" so I entered that. As a result my "calories burned today" showed up as 2,223 (basal) + 963 (lifestyle) + 1,111 (activities) = 4,297. I also recorded what I ate. It was a public holiday in France yesterday (and time off is taken very seriously in France!) & most cafes and restaurants were closed - so unfortunately I mostly relied on petrol (gas) station food. Avoiding carbohydrates meant eating a lot of cheese & sausages (and not much in the way of vegetables, salad, etc.). Breakfast at my hotel included bread, which I ate: (i) I was a bit less worried about carbohydrate consumption because I knew I would be undertaking physical activity (ii) I'd paid for it so I was damn well going to eat it! Nevertheless, the day's eating can be summarised as: * 3,714 calories * 69% fat (33% sat/25% mono/7% poly) * 13% carbs * 18% protein No alcohol (good), 10g fibre (not so good). I ate an amazing 284g of fat. That's TEN OUNCES! Like eating a pack of butter (250g over here) and more besides. I've obviously read and tried to understand the thinking behind low carbohydrate diets, but...even so, I'm still doing a bit of a "double take" at the amount of fat that this diet might involve (although obviously yesterday was a bit unusual). Perhaps I'm just looking for some reassurance that I'm doing the right thing. Now that I'm back home and back in the office my calorie consumption will probably drop to around 2,000 per day - and I'll also be able to control what I eat much better than I can when on holiday (erm, except that I'm going to Moscow this weekend!) so normal service will be resumed shortly. Any comments? Apart from the above concern, the diet is still going quite well. Also my resting heart rate and blood pressure have dropped slightly, which is obviously good news (but I want to get them down further). :> Yesterday I rode my motorbike through Belgium and France for about 8 :> hours. Motorcycling is quite a physical activity - surprisingly so, :> in fact. Please explain how that can be? After a day in the saddle my arms, shoulders and legs are :> very tired - particularly since the riding was quite "spirited" - :> flicking the bike through the bends along twisty country roads, :> sometimes at the sort of speeds that would have me losing my licence :> if I were caught by the Police in the UK. Maybe they are tired simply due to holding them in position for so long.... Riding a road bike doesn't seem like much of a physical activity to me..... But then, I don't ride a motorbike.... :> When I got home last night I caught up on a few emails etc. and :> afterwards I had a look at the FitDay site for the first time & :> decided to give it a try. So day one was yesterday. Motocycling is :> in the list of "activities" so I entered that. As a result my :> "calories burned today" showed up as 2,223 (basal) + 963 (lifestyle) :> + 1,111 (activities) = 4,297. Don't believe that... :> I also recorded what I ate. It was a public holiday in France :> yesterday (and time off is taken very seriously in France!) & most [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] :> Nevertheless, the day's eating can be summarised as: :> * 3,714 calories wow.... :> * 69% fat (33% sat/25% mono/7% poly) :> * 13% carbs [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] :> take" at the amount of fat that this diet might involve (although :> obviously yesterday was a bit unusual). The problem is not the %, but the total amounts....that's too much food. :> Perhaps I'm just looking for some reassurance that I'm doing the :> right thing. Bring your totals down...the fat % is maybe a bit low... :> Now that I'm back home and back in the office my calorie consumption :> will probably drop to around 2,000 per day - and I'll also be able to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] :> dropped slightly, which is obviously good news (but I want to get :> them down further). Yeah...don't pay attention to fitday's exercise numbers... You'd be surprised how tiring it can be! My bike is a full-on sports 170mph bike which demands a certain amount of physical effort to ride compared to cruising on a Harley, for example. The riding position is very different - a lot of weight is carried by the wrists and also by the thighs/bottom. Riding through bends is more physical if done at speed because turning is achieved not by steering but by moving the bike from side to side by shifting your bodyweight around (if you watch the Moto GP guys on the TV in the bends you'll understand). Obviously the amount of calories eaten was high - much much higher than average - and I'm not for a moment suggesting that I expect to continue eating 3,700 per day. However I was extremely hungry yesterday - much more so than usual. Also this was my fourth day of riding and I had eaten rather less than this on the previous three days. So I'm not concerned about the total amount of calories eaten since although it was very high yesterday, it was very unusual. My consumption for the last few weeks has hovered around 2,000 per day and been very stable. I simply raised my eyebrows at the fat grams that I munched my way through yesterday - that was my only concern. :: You'd be surprised how tiring it can be! Oh, I do believe it can be tiring...and I think it does use extra energy compared to sitting on a couch! Since you did it for 8 hours that does count for something, as that was 8 hours you weren't watching TV :) :: My bike is a full-on sports :: 170mph bike Wow. Nice butt-rocket! which demands a certain amount of physical effort to ride :: compared to cruising on a Harley, for example. The riding position :: is very different - a lot of weight is carried by the wrists and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] :: (if you watch the Moto GP guys on the TV in the bends you'll :: understand). Yes, I know what you mean.... :: Obviously the amount of calories eaten was high - much much higher :: than average - and I'm not for a moment suggesting that I expect to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] :: I simply raised my eyebrows at the fat grams that I munched my way :: through yesterday - that was my only concern. Well, we LCers typically eat even greater precentages of fat than you did on this day, so in that respect I don't think your experience is atypical. *If* you overeat, though, you have potential to gain weight. And if you overeat both fat and carbs (you only had 13% as I recall, but if that gets much over 100g then that might be a problem), then carbs raise insulin and bring on fat storage at a greater rate. I have a theory that if you overeat fat without too many carbs then the fat doesn't get stored away on the body so quickly, and you then have a chance to burn it off via activity the next day. Just a theory, mind you, but one I act on whenever I find myself eating too much fat while LCing. Thanks Roger. In your experience what is a good percentage split in terms of fat/protein/carbohydrate? Is now 2pm in the UK and I've eaten just 900 calories today. Not feeling hungry at all. Will have a small meal around 7pm but likely to stay below 2000 cals for the day as a whole I suspect. Alan. I think fat needs to be higher for weight loss than for maintenace or muscle building. Typically, somewhere between 65 and 80% of fat for weight loss, with 25 to 15 % for protein, and 10 to 5% for carbs....it all depends on you and how activite you are. You will need to experiment. :: Thanks Roger. :: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] :: :: Alan. > I think fat needs to be higher for weight loss than for maintenace or muscle > building. Typically, somewhere between 65 and 80% of fat for weight loss, > with 25 to 15 % for protein, and 10 to 5% for carbs....it all depends on you > and how activite you are. You will need to experiment. Activite? Is that a word? ;-) Your typos are more fun than mine. <G> Cheers!  SignatureOm. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson :: In article <11h9472l5fcj04@news.supernews.com>, :: "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] :: Activite? :: Is that a word? ;-) Yeah, I'm really bad with typos! I'm always attempting to do more things at once than I should be. But this is usenet, so I don't really care (sorry, y'all). In other areas, I'm way more careful. > You'd be surprised how tiring it can be! My bike is a full-on sports > 170mph bike which demands a certain amount of physical effort to ride [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > from side to side by shifting your bodyweight around (if you watch the > Moto GP guys on the TV in the bends you'll understand). I've ridden sport (and dirt) bikes for years, and I think you're confusing concentration/activity with actual work/energy. I would think that FitDay number is for offroad cycling, though obviously I can't be certain. The calorie estimate seems way high, unless they are considering heat loss. KeS > Yesterday I rode my motorbike through Belgium and France for about 8 > hours. Motorcycling is quite a physical activity - surprisingly so, in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I ate an amazing 284g of fat. That's TEN OUNCES! Like eating a pack > of butter (250g over here) and more besides. Bingo! In your other post today you reported physical symptoms of ketosis for the first time. In this post you showed exactly why you were so obviously in ketosis. Dietary fat drives ketosis. The more fat you eat the more intense your ketosis. Also the more aerobic activity the more the cells will want to burn ketones. While the adjustment of metabolism alone is usually on a week-to-week time scale your large surge of dietary fat did that change within a single day. Folks see that cutting carbs triggers going into ketosis so they conclude that cutting carbs drives that ketosis. It isn't a true conclusion and you just demonstrated the science behind that. Dietary carbs directly drive insulin release. High insulin pushes fat into storage. Low insulin fails to push fat into storage (note the wording). High insulin suppresses glucagon release. Dietary fat indirectly drives glucagon release. High glucagon pulls fat out of storage. Low glucagon fails to pull fat out of storage (note the wording). High glucagon does not suppress insulin. Take your time to read how the too main hormones work. They say that higher dietary fat means more ketosis not that lower dietary carbs mean more ketosis. So long as you do not overeat, more dietary fat does mean more ketosis. Do that with the same total calories and it means eating less protein. Do that with increased activity and it means more fat without more protein for a total of more calories. Without knowing how insulin, glucagon, dietary carbs, and dietary fat all work together what happened is far from obvious. Knowing, though, what happened becomes expected. I am not in the least surprised by your result today because I have learned how they all work together. On days of lower activity, you'll want to taper off both protein and fat but consider - for the same total calories more fat and less protein gives better loss all the way down to the point you hit your protein minimum and trigger a starvation mode. You must be in extremely bad shape to believe that is quite a physical activity. Try butching up a bit. SignatureMost people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW > Yesterday I rode my motorbike through Belgium and France for about 8 > hours. Motorcycling is quite a physical activity - surprisingly so, in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sort of speeds that would have me losing my licence if I were caught by > the Police in the UK. You're a funny guy. |
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