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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / October 2005Atkins Center is turning me off
Every employee of the Atkins Center ALWAYS has to say somewhere in their presentations that the big mistake people are making with the Atkins Diet now is "they try to do the diet on their own". What a bunch of crap! I do not need to pay those people money to do this diet correctly. :> Every employee of the Atkins Center ALWAYS has to say somewhere in :> their presentations that the big mistake people are making with the :> Atkins Diet now is "they try to do the diet on their own". What a :> bunch of crap! I do not need to pay those people money to do this :> diet correctly. What does that mean? What money do they want from you? Their website now refers you to eDiets for a plan. That means they are getting a cut. ||| Every employee of the Atkins Center ALWAYS has to say somewhere in ||| their presentations that the big mistake people are making with the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | | What does that mean? What money do they want from you? :> Their website now refers you to eDiets for a plan. That means they :> are getting a cut. Such a damn shame. :> Roger Zoul wrote: :> | Pookie <melissabrannen@missing.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] :> | :> | What does that mean? What money do they want from you? > Every employee of the Atkins Center ALWAYS has to say somewhere in their > presentations that the big mistake people are making with the Atkins Diet > now is "they try to do the diet on their own". What a bunch of crap! I do > not need to pay those people money to do this diet correctly. Over five years of low-carbing and not a single penny spent on any Atkins, Zone or other corporate entity for diet specific information or foods. Not a penny. The best thing you can do is go to the library, borrow every book you can find on low-carb and educate yourself as to the best way to eat. Also read everything on the Weston Price website. It's all free for the taking. http://www.westonaprice.org/splash_2.htm TC > The best thing you can do is go to the library, borrow every book you > can find on low-carb and educate yourself as to the best way to eat. "Better yourself through education". Agreed. Each plan that managed to become popular did so because it is based on good ideas. Each plan has weaknesses as well. So the best strategy is to figure out the good points of several plans and combine them, modified by the effort-reward curve. Consider that Atkins is a fully customized plan for carb counts but largely just wishes you well on other counts. But Protein Power is a customized plan for protein counts but depends on the average CCLL for carbs. Consider that South Beach is defined to be easy to do and for a fair number of people extra effort doesn't give extra results. But fail to do well on South Beach and the plans with more customization are there for the learning. > Every employee of the Atkins Center ALWAYS has to say somewhere in their > presentations that the big mistake people are making with the Atkins Diet > now is "they try to do the diet on their own". What a bunch of crap! True, but they need to make their money somehow. Would you rather they ask for your credit card up front so they can charge by the consultation? If they had actual experts it would be worth it IMO. > I do > not need to pay those people money to do this diet correctly. Agreed. The versions of the book are at any store. And here you are posting to ASDLC, no charge. > Every employee of the Atkins Center ALWAYS has to say somewhere in their > presentations that the big mistake people are making with the Atkins Diet > now is "they try to do the diet on their own". What a bunch of crap! I do > not need to pay those people money to do this diet correctly. I think they are correct in this. People hear them talk, cut some regular carbs, eat maple cured bacon with every meal, and wonder why they aren't losing. Or they replace their salad dressing with a branded low carb sub, and still drink regular coke. I think you can, as other posters have suggested, do the diet without paying them, or anyone other than your local grocer a nickel. But the information in any of the LC diet books is the key to doing it right. On the eDiets partnership. I think this is better than Atkins putting out meal plans and shopping lists, etc. When they had tracking stuff on their website, it was junky. Not that I am in love with eDiets' way of doing things, but it adds a lot of the structure that some people (structured and non-structured alike) need to succeed at the diet. And it can make the decision making very easy. I do not, at present, use ediets, but I did in the past, when I was in school, because I didn't have the time to meal plan for myself. God forbid someone tries to make a buck off their knowledge. We can't all be Mother Teresa. Nor, according to Adam Smith, should we. And if there's anything the US was founded on, it's Adam Smith. -Hollywood > > Every employee of the Atkins Center ALWAYS has to say somewhere in their > > presentations that the big mistake people are making with the Atkins Diet [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > they aren't losing. Or they replace their salad dressing with a branded > low carb sub, and still drink regular coke. Ah, various meanings for "try to do the diet on their own". I've *never* taken making up random sounding stupid stuff and calling it Atkins because you have no clue "try to do the diet on their own". I've always called that having no clue and not doing what Atkins actually is. To me there are two separate parts to the phase. Doing the diet at all, and doing it without a support group. I agree that folks need to do what the process actually is and the book is needed for that. As to support groups being necessary, I don't think they are. > I think you can, as other posters have suggested, do the diet without > paying them, or anyone other than your local grocer a nickel. But the > information in any of the LC diet books is the key to doing it right. The book runs around $6 new, $2 used. Even that entry fee isn't needed because libraries have copies, and libraries have web access paid by tax dollars. > On the eDiets partnership. I think this is better than Atkins putting > out meal plans and shopping lists, etc. When they had tracking stuff on > their website, it was junky. The menu suggestions in the book itself are filled with errors. > Not that I am in love with eDiets' way of > doing things, but it adds a lot of the structure that some people > (structured and non-structured alike) need to succeed at the diet. Good point, but what if someone never starts to view them as a program to graduate from? They'll fail on maintenance. People keep referring to "Atkins Center" What exactly do they mean by this? When you entire www.atkinscenter.com, you are taken Atkins Nutritionals, which is the company that markets the Atkins products. There is no mention there of the term Atkins Center. It looks to me like this was a name and web address that it really not used to describe a particular business or website anymore. So, why do people keep using that instead of just saying Atkins Nutritionals? And it gets more confusing because there is an Atkins Center that is part of a hospital that was funded by a large donation from the Atkins Foundation earlier this year. As far as Atkins Center pushing ediets, again what are people referring too? At Atkins Nurtritionals I looked around a bit and didn't see anything at all about Ediets? > People keep referring to "Atkins Center" What exactly do they mean by > this? Maybe confusion between that historical name and Atkins Nutritionals? When Dr A was alive the "Atkins Center" had a phone help line; maybe someone took over that number. > As far as Atkins Center pushing ediets, again what are people referring > too? At Atkins Nurtritionals I looked around a bit and didn't see > anything at all about Ediets? Atkins Nutritional Approach link at the top, Get Started link in the middle left. The eDiets link is next to the TGI Fridays link, that was hilarious. :: People keep referring to "Atkins Center" What exactly do they mean :: by this? When you entire www.atkinscenter.com, That link used to take you to a nice website that gave good, solid, detailed info about doing Atkins. in all 4 phases...... Now, it is the much less useful site about buying stuff. you are taken Atkins :: Nutritionals, which is the company that markets the Atkins products. :: There is no mention there of the term Atkins Center. It looks to me [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] :: of a hospital that was funded by a large donation from the Atkins :: Foundation earlier this year. well, things change... :: As far as Atkins Center pushing ediets, again what are people :: referring too? At Atkins Nurtritionals I looked around a bit and :: didn't see anything at all about Ediets? I didn't either, but I was so pissed at the new site that I didn't look too hard. What does anyone need eDiets for, anyway? Oh, right..... > Ah, various meanings for "try to do the diet on their own". The flaws of language. It only has meaning if you all share the same one. > I've *never* taken making up random sounding stupid stuff > and calling it Atkins because you have no clue "try to do > the diet on their own". I've always called that having > no clue and not doing what Atkins actually is. Concur completely. Though some people (neophytes)tend to try it like this. I would call it "doing it on their own" as opposied to "designing their own plan", what we all do, more or less. > To me there are two separate parts to the phase. Doing > the diet at all, and doing it without a support group. > I agree that folks need to do what the process actually > is and the book is needed for that. As to support groups > being necessary, I don't think they are. "People go crazy in congregations/they only get better one by one" - Sting "Soul Cages" (I think it's adapted from something, but I'm too lazy to find it) > The book runs around $6 new, $2 used. Even that entry > fee isn't needed because libraries have copies, and > libraries have web access paid by tax dollars. I think $2 used, of which, no Atkins entity sees a penny of, is probably better than library. Having the book around was a comfort when I was strictly Atkins. I learned to understand how people felt about religious texts. Now, I own two Atkins books, Protein Power, and a couple of other books on nutrition, plus online stuff. Consult a variety of experts and form my own opinion. > The menu suggestions in the book itself are filled > with errors. Junky. Like the menu stuff on the old website. And that was the useful one. > Good point, but what if someone never starts to view them > as a program to graduate from? They'll fail on maintenance. People can f.ck things up in so many ways, we can't even begin to anticipate them all. I suspect that eDiets does nothing to make people leave them eventually (That would be a bad business move, though the ethical thing to do... clearly the profit motive is not always a market force for the public good). But if you read the/some book(s), follow the plan, and use eDiets as a tool rather than a crutch, I'm sure it can work. The potential for it to work does not necessarily coincide with the actuality, but it could work. I suspect for some it does, and for the majority, like everything else they try, it doesn't. But isn't that the nature of weight loss? -Hollywood 264/230/218 >Every employee of the Atkins Center ALWAYS has to say somewhere in their >presentations that the big mistake people are making with the Atkins Diet >now is "they try to do the diet on their own". What a bunch of crap! I do >not need to pay those people money to do this diet correctly. Dr Atkins was a crusader who believed strongly in the diet and seemed genuinely interested in saving millions of lives. The need to pay the bills never seemed to fit in nicely with his crusade. Atkins was a quack who took an existing diet and made money from it.  SignatureYou take stupid to a new level. -- MFW >>Every employee of the Atkins Center ALWAYS has to say somewhere in their >>presentations that the big mistake people are making with the Atkins Diet [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > genuinely interested in saving millions of lives. The need to pay > the bills never seemed to fit in nicely with his crusade. JC, If he was a quack, it wouldn't work. If he was just a rebrander (ie took existing diet and made money) then he's not a quack, he's a marketing genius. If the diet doesn't work, and he's a quack, your usual line of commentary makes no sense. -Hollywood 264/229/218 Since 7/20/05 > Atkins was a quack who took an existing diet and made money from it. The extra stuff he added to the diet was pure quackery. The diet itself had existed and worked for many decades prior to his money-making scheme. SignatureYou take stupid to a new level. -- MFW > JC, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >> Atkins was a quack who took an existing diet and made money from it. > >Every employee of the Atkins Center ALWAYS has to say somewhere in their > >presentations that the big mistake people are making with the Atkins Diet [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Dr Atkins was a crusader who believed strongly in the diet and seemed > genuinely interested in saving millions of lives. Agreed. And the book is enough for many. > The need to pay > the bills never seemed to fit in nicely with his crusade. Disagreed. From the gate he was selling custom supplements when similar quality was available through GNC. Then around 2002 he started endorsing his own bars even though other brands with nearly identical ingredients were banned. He didn't write all those books at a loss either. "Disagreed. From the gate he was selling custom supplements when similar quality was available through GNC. " I recall reading one of his first books in the mid 70s. There was no mention of Atkins supplements, nor was he marketing any. The supplements and other products were not marketed for at least a decade and probably more like two decades. "Then around 2002 he started endorsing his own bars even though other brands with nearly identical ingredients were banned." Banned? I don't recall Atkins banning any other manufacturers products. Nor did he really promote his products in any of the books or claim that you had to use them for the diet to work. They may have been mentioned, but he didn't push them or ban other products. And in interviews with the press and TV, he never pushed his products. If he talked about them at all, it was usually in response to a question. > > Disagreed. From the gate he was selling custom supplements > > when similar quality was available through GNC. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > supplements and other products were not marketed for at least a decade > and probably more like two decades. Depends on exactly which book in the 1970s. He started formulating his own supplements and selling them at his clinic at the time Doctor Atkins Health Revolution was printed. That book has seen at least one follow-on as Doctor Atkins Vita-Nutrient Solution. I don't know when they went to remote sales but they were an established product line when the 1993 edition came out. > > Then around 2002 he started endorsing his own bars even though other > > brands with nearly identical ingredients were banned." > > Banned? During Induction. Thanks for the added detail. "Depends on exactly which book in the 1970s. He started formulating his own supplements and selling them at his clinic at the time Doctor Atkins Health Revolution was printed. That book has seen at least one follow-on as Doctor Atkins Vita-Nutrient Solution. I don't know when they went to remote sales but they were an established product line when the 1993 edition came out. " Why does it depend on which Atkins book in the 1970s I read or what happened in 1993? Atkins was publishing his LC diet books at least since the mid 1970s and as I've pointed out, contrary to your claim that he was selling custom supplements from the gate, he did not start selling them until decades later. > Banned? "During Induction. Thanks for the added detail. " Don't thank me for your misinformation. I never said Atkins banned other LC products, while advocating his own, during induction or at any other time. You did. And once again, you don't know what you're talking about. A reference for your claims would be nice. Here's a good place to start. From Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution, 1999, page 129: Convenience Foods: Although it's important that you eat primarily unprocessed foods, some controlled carb food products can come in handy.... As I mentioned earlier, more and more companies are creating healthy food products that can be eaten during the induction phase.... Just remember two things: 1 - Not all convenience food products are the same, so check labels and carb content. I can vouch for any product carrying the Atkins brand name. 2 - While any of these foods can make doing Atkins easier, don't overdo it. So, where's the ban? Reference please? >"Depends on exactly which book in the 1970s. He started >formulating his own supplements and selling them at his [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > >So, where's the ban? Reference please? Thanks. You have the facts on your side. Nice analysis. Sherman |
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