Can muscles be STRENGTHENED while one is in KETOSIS?

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David_nj_7@mailbolt.com - 31 Dec 2005 00:27 GMT

There seems to be quite a conflict of opinions on this subject. Some
will tell you that there is very little if any muscle loss while one is
on a ketogenic diet whereas others will say it's impossible to get
stronger while in a ketotic state.

I guess it's similar to the debate about dietary protein needs. The
weightlifting/bodybuilding enthusiasts will tell you in order to build
muscle you need a much higher protein intake then a non-active person
would however I have seen the medical community express that you really
don't need that much more extra protein. I guess the debate continues
on.

What do you guys think? Can someone like myself who has lost at least
150 pounds this year and is staying at about 30 grams of carbohydrate
per day strengthen their muscles (not bulk them up) to some degree or
is that just not possible?

Thanks

DAVID

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JC Der Koenig - 31 Dec 2005 00:42 GMT

You can definitely get stronger while in ketosis. The broader question is
whether or not you can keep getting stronger while limiting calories. The
answer seems to be that it depends on just how far back you cut the
calories. If you need proof that the size of muscle does not correlate with
the strength of the muscle on a one-to-one basis, look to Olympic lifters
and wrestlers in the lower weight classes. You'll notice that they maintain
their strength, or even get stronger, as they lose weight for competition.
Most of these competitors use some variation of low carb dieting towards
that end. There are many reasons for not getting stronger, but being in
ketosis is not one of them.

Signature

Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW

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> There seems to be quite a conflict of opinions on this subject. Some
> will tell you that there is very little if any muscle loss while one is
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> DAVID

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Joe the Aroma - 31 Dec 2005 01:08 GMT

> There seems to be quite a conflict of opinions on this subject. Some
> will tell you that there is very little if any muscle loss while one is
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> DAVID

My own opinion is that you must be in a hypercaloric state to bulk them. You
are limited in how strong they will get without bulking them.

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Roger Zoul - 31 Dec 2005 01:40 GMT

> There seems to be quite a conflict of opinions on this subject. Some
> will tell you that there is very little if any muscle loss while one is
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> per day strengthen their muscles (not bulk them up) to some degree or
> is that just not possible?

Sure you can.

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David_nj_7@mailbolt.com - 31 Dec 2005 03:01 GMT

Hi... OK. When I started my low-carb program earlier this year I
weighed over 400 pounds and now I am down around 260-270.

I know that my methods, although not considered healthy was what worked
for me.

Now... during the past several months, I would eat no more than 20-30
grams of carbohydrate and anywhere from 800-1200 calories per day.
Some days, and even 2 days at a time, I would water fast and eat
nothing.

Now.. I know this all seems so drastic in here, and I have no doubt
that plenty of muscles were compromised during all of this. However..
I still think I'm in much better shape like this than before.

For instance. When I started, I couldn't walk more than a block or two
without getting winded and tired.

Now... I ca easily walk 2, 3 or even more miles per day. Now, strength
wise... I know I'm not as strong.

You wanna hear something really weird. I went shooting basketballs
with a friend the other day and it was actually a struggle for me to
reach the basket from the three point line. I never had such issues
before.

Now... that could be as a result of my drastic diet but couldn't it
also be because it was the first time in well over a year that I picked
up a basketball?

Another very strange thing. Shooting a basketball takes very little
exertion to do, at least from a muscular standpoint but the day after
shooting for about an hour... my arms were very sore. I mean, really
sore. You wouldn't think that doing something as easy as shooting a
basketball could cause DOMS this bad would you?

I know... for my own good, that if I want a body that is between
200-225 pound and reasonably strong I am gonna have to modify this
rather drastic approach.

I was just wondering if I ate between 1000-1200 calories per day @
about 30 grams of carbo if that would give me enough energy to at least
strengthen my muscles somewhat so I can at least shoot a basketball.

One more thing. Do bodybuilders/weightlifters ever fast for a day or
two, from what you guys have heard.

Thanks for your help!

David

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JC Der Koenig - 31 Dec 2005 03:09 GMT

How much have you been exercising? You make it seem like you haven't been
exercising, other than some walking. You should have started lifting weights
as soon as you decided to lose weight, if you wanted to maintain your
strength. The good news is that you can start now.

Signature

Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW

--

>
> I was just wondering if I ate between 1000-1200 calories per day @
> about 30 grams of carbo if that would give me enough energy to at least
> strengthen my muscles somewhat so I can at least shoot a basketball.

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Roger Zoul - 31 Dec 2005 04:33 GMT

> Hi... OK. When I started my low-carb program earlier this year I
> weighed over 400 pounds and now I am down around 260-270.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> about 30 grams of carbo if that would give me enough energy to at least
> strengthen my muscles somewhat so I can at least shoot a basketball.

It really depends...but I kinda think that at your current weight you could
continue to lose without doing much exercise. However, if you try to lift
and/or play basketball at that calorie/carb level, you'll probably not feel
too good.

> One more thing. Do bodybuilders/weightlifters ever fast for a day or
> two, from what you guys have heard.

If you're really eating at 1000-1200 cals per day, why bother fasting?
Probably lifting is all you need to do for the time being.

> Thanks for your help!
>
> David

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Priscilla Ballou - 31 Dec 2005 03:30 GMT

> > What do you guys think? Can someone like myself who has lost at least
> > 150 pounds this year and is staying at about 30 grams of carbohydrate
> > per day strengthen their muscles (not bulk them up) to some degree or
> > is that just not possible?
>
> Sure you can.

Of course. Why on earth not?

Priscilla

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"Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what
the hell happened." -- Cora Harvey Armstrong

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OmManiPadmeOmelet - 31 Dec 2005 03:34 GMT

> There seems to be quite a conflict of opinions on this subject. Some
> will tell you that there is very little if any muscle loss while one is
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> DAVID

I try to stay below 20 grams per day.

My deadlift has gone from 90 lbs. to 140 lbs.

My bench press is increasing too, slowly but surely.

So,

yes.

Cheers!

Signature

Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

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WM - 31 Dec 2005 12:05 GMT

>There seems to be quite a conflict of opinions on this subject. Some
>will tell you that there is very little if any muscle loss while one is
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>DAVID

It's called WEIGHT TRAINING.

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