I should look more?   You made the claim that Dr. Agatston worked at
Atkins Center.  Now, instead of admitting that claim was false, you
want us to believe the fact that Atkins referred patients to Agatston
is the same as Agatston having worked at Atkins Center?  Do you think
everyone is stupid?    As usuall, you have no reference to back up what
you claimed.     You are a liar, who frequently mixes fact with
fiction.

You posted:

That could be interesting specualtion.  But you present it as
established fact, as if you know it to be true.  And then when
challenged on it, you went on to present the lie that Agatston worked
at Atkins Center.  In my book, your credibility is zippo.

    It does at first, but then, in my opinion,
    it veers off radically--so much so that it
    loses any connection to Atkins or any real
    low carb plan.

    We both recognize the "magic" (anorectic
    effect) of low carb.  Any diet that for the
    most part doesn't recognize and take advantage
    of that can't be realistically connected to
    Atkins (a ketosis-oriented plan) or low carb
    in general to my way of thinking.  Of course,
    again, that's just me.  Perhaps others feel
    differently--and that's their right.

    One thing that is somewhat telling is the
    fact that there's a section in the South Beach
    book (I believe it's an entire small chapter)
    specifically dedicated to explaining why
    people are likely to fall off the diet.
    Dr. Agatston knows that his diet contains
    a giant potential compliance problem just
    like every other moderate or high carb diet.
    His solution is to create a familiarity
    with low carb within the participant early on
    and have the participant keep that in their
    back pocket for use when compliance fails or
    weight loss stalls.  And I think that's a
    great approach.  It's a step forward in the
    evolution of the isocaloric (40-30-30) diet.
    But to me that clearly separates it from Atkins.
    In the ideal case, a South Beach participant
    will be on an isocaloric diet from the two
    week point onward.  The low carb part of
    South Beach is limited to the initial 2 weeks
    and problem solving if/as needed.  Clearly
    that's nothing like Atkins--but it is like
    The Zone.

    Barry Sears (The Zone) is a scientist who's
    afraid of premature death via heart disease.
    Dr. Agatston is a cardiologist who deals with
    heart disease.  They both feel that their
    expressions of the isocaloric diet will net
    better cardiovascular results than low carb.
    Their books share and promote that common
    fundamental belief whereas Atkins and
    Protein Power (the most popular low carb plans)
    do not.

    And now I'll shift to the totally personal.

    I believe that my bloodwork (markers for the
    popular western diseases like diabetes, heart
    disease, stroke, arteriosclerosis, etc.) is
    just as good with low carb as it would be with
    isocaloric.  And in general there are a number
    of other benefits, not the least of which is
    the anorectic effect, that I am experiencing
    that make low carb my clearly preferred choice.
    Even though others may disagree, for me it was
    immediately obvious and easy to see that South
    Beach has a low carb component but that it isn't
    a low carb plan.  And therefore, for me, it was
    deemed undesirable.  For me there was no confusion
    about it whatsoever.  And with that I feel that
    anyone who is clear on what low carb is and who
    reads South Beach will draw a similar conclusion.

    South Beach can be connected to Atkins about as
    readily as The Zone can.  The only way to create
    a bolder contrast between diets would be to
    attempt to connect Atkins to a strict low fat
    diet like the Ornish diet.  Doing so would be
    silly, and I believe that any claim that South
    Beach is an Atkins copy is very nearly as silly.
--

   
   
   

FWIW, I've had trader4 killfiled for months along with a few others because
he was very annoying at times.  He may not annoting be to everybody or at
all times, and maybe it was just a personality clash.  But it's a lot more
peaceful with the minor annoyances ignored.  I'd suggest you might want to
do the same; it helps from getting sucked into this kind of he-said she-said
stuff.

Peter

Doug, you've got to be kidding.  You made a point-blank flat statement about
what someone did and you didn't know it for fact.  Surely you see the
difference?  Please tell me so...

If I said "Doug fell and hit his head" others would assume that I meant you
fell and hit your head.  They would not take that to mean "I think Doug fell
and hit his head," as if it were my opinion.  Those two statements say very,
very different things.

So trader4 pokes at every detail of my writing

Should you ever write a book, please be careful not to state things as fact
that are really your opinion.  There are times in writing where comments can
be reasonably taken as opinion based on context (like that statement).
Frankly, for you to tell me you don't understand this simple fact would
cause me you seriously question your honesty.