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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / March 2006Here we go again, new report from Lancet slams Atkins
Heard this mentiioned on the news last night. Another hatchet job founded in ignorance. Given the extreme bias and how they can't even get basic facts right, eg Atkins diet forbids fruits and only allows a handful of vegetables, I doubt they are telling the whole story regarding the patient with ketoacidosis. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=aIWlrzW5pYCc&refer=uk Low-Carb Atkins Diet Isn't Safe for Losing Weight, Doctors Say March 17 (Bloomberg) -- The low-carbohydrate Atkins diet, which experienced a peak of popularity two years ago, isn't safe and shouldn't be recommended for weight loss, according to doctors writing in The Lancet. Low-carbohydrate diets for weight management ``are far from healthy'' given their association with constipation or diarrhea, halitosis, headache and general fatigue, among other side effects, Dr. Lyn Steffen of the University of Minnesota School of Public Health wrote. They also increase the protein load to the kidneys and alter the acid balance of the body, which can result in loss of bone minerals, Steffen said. The diet, pioneered by the late cardiologist Robert Atkins, advocates boosting protein intake by eating unlimited amounts of meat and hefty amounts of eggs and cheese, while forbidding fruits and grains and allowing only a handful of vegetables. About 9 percent of the U.S. population said it was following a low-carb diet early in 2004, with that number falling to less than 4 percent at the end of the year, according to consultant NPD Group last year. In a case report, doctors including Klaus-Dieter Lessnau, clinical professor of medicine at New York University School of Medicine, described a 40-year-old white female patient from February 2004 who was vomiting as often as six times daily and had difficulty breathing after strictly following the Atkins diet for a month. She reported a weight loss of 9 kilograms (20 pounds) while on the diet. The patient had an underlying ketosis caused by the Atkins diet and developed severe ketoacidosis, an excessive level of ketones and acids in the blood, the doctors said. ``This problem may become more recognized'' if people continue to follow diets like the Atkins, the doctors said. Diet's Appeal The Atkins diet may appeal to the overweight as it causes rapid weight loss without hunger in the first, most-restrictive stage of the diet, Steffen wrote in an accompanying comment to the case report. A study of two 12-month trials showed that those on the low-carbohydrate diet had lost ``significantly more'' weight at the 6-month stage than those on a low-fat diet. Over the full 12 months, however, no significant difference in weight loss was observed between the traditional low-fat diet and a low-carb one, the doctor wrote. Closely held Atkins Nutritionals Inc., founded by Atkins in 1989, filed for bankruptcy protection in July after the last peak of consumer interest faded. The Ronkonkoma, New York-based company exited court protection in January, saying it was shifting focus to marketing nutritional foods for active adults. The Atkins diet has experienced bouts of popularity since the 1970s. Atkins died in 2003. To contact the reporter on this story: Etain Lavelle in London at at elavelle1@bloomberg.net. Last Updated: March 16, 2006 19:01 EST > http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=aIWlrzW5pYCc&refer=uk > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > shouldn't be recommended for weight loss, according to doctors writing > in The Lancet. > <snip> > To contact the reporter on this story: > Etain Lavelle in London at at elavelle1@bloomberg.net. > Last Updated: March 16, 2006 19:01 EST My Response to the reporter... October, 2001 -- AGE: 38 MY WEIGHT: 249 lbs MY BP: 138/92 MY CHOL: 263 RESTING PULSE: 89 October, 2002 -- AGE: 39 MY WEIGHT: 142 lbs MY BP: 103/64 MY CHOLESTEROL: 210 RESTING PULSE: 61 March, 2006 -- AGE: 42 MY WEIGHT: 141 MY BP: 99/63 MY CHOLESTEROL: 206 (Feb, 06) RESTING PULSE: 63 Clear physical as of January, 2006 My food? Anything but bread, pasta, sugar, starchy vegetables, and sugary fruits. Your report cites a case study -- ONE PATIENT -- who had problems while following a low-carbohydrate regimen, but it provides no link between her diet and her medical condition. I absolutely promise that you could also find one case of illness or death with every other diet program ever conceived. Furthermore, it might be instructive to investigate the difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis. Without going into gruesome details, most people who have not eaten for six or more hours on any day are in some stage of ketosis, which is harmless. Furthermore, ketoacidosis is not caused by ketosis. Allow me to note other misconceptions in the story -- 1. "Diarrhea, halitosis, headache and general fatigue" -- None of those are automatic with a low-carb diet. The halitosis noted in the story is exactly the same as "morning breath." Morning breath is a result of ketosis that comes from not eating overnight. It goes away when you eat breakfast, which is also true if that breakfast is low carb. People on Atkins report headaches in the first stage of the diet, which significantly limits carb. It also only lasts TWO WEEKS. The other two things are simply not a given. 2. "They also increase the protein load to the kidneys and alter the acid balance of the body, which can result in loss of bone minerals" -- Please cite the study that confirms this. This is what the opponents THINK should happen, but no one has ever proven or really ever observed this. 3. "advocates boosting protein intake -- This is just incorrect. There is no advocacy of increased protein intake, although it does happen. On the contrary, if anything, increased FAT consumption is a theme of the diet. (And no, no studies have EVER linked increased fat consumption to heart disease or cholesterol problems -- a myth) 4. "by eating unlimited amounts of meat "-- Again, WRONG. Please at least read the book, and THEN report. One eats until satisfied. Food has calories and 3500 calories of filet mignon is still 3500 calories. (A mistake Atkins followers make, unfortunately.) 5. "hefty amounts of eggs and cheese" - true then and five years later for me (at least on the cheese) 6. "while forbidding fruits" -- just WRONG. I ate and still eat all berries. In maintenance, you can have almost any fruit there is. 7. "allowing only a handful of vegetables" -- unbelievably incorrect - MOST of what I ate was vegetables -- the first two weeks limits one to certain vegetables, but after that, almost anything but potatoes, certain beans, and corn is fair game The thing that is true is that, ultimately, the diet is just about as successful as any other diet. And, the big dirty secret that the Atkins' followers don't tell you is that calories matter and that there is no going back to the days of Oreos and ice cream. People eating low-carb have one problem....you have to stay with it forever, and if you don't, you will gain back every pound and more. But, surprise, this is also true of every diet. Weight-loss is a way of life one follows forever, but please...write the OTHER side of this story. Those of us who have had long-term success can tell you the real pros and cons.  Signature******************** Wayne Crannell Atkins+ 10/21/01 249/142 (9/10/02) ******************** :: My Response to the reporter... I sent a similar response but it was slanted more towards improvement as a T2D. I think I was a lot meaner than you, Wayne. :) > :: My Response to the reporter... > > I sent a similar response but it was slanted more towards improvement as a > T2D. I think I was a lot meaner than you, Wayne. :) It's early...I've had my coffee...I'm in a decent mood. And besides, I need to save up my bad mood for work. :-) Signature******************** Wayne Crannell Atkins+ 10/21/01 249/142 (9/10/02) ******************** :: In article <121lj0pnt3aj657@news.supernews.com>, :: "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] :: It's early...I've had my coffee...I'm in a decent mood. And besides, :: I need to save up my bad mood for work. :-) :) Well put and well done, Wayne! DustyB ... >> To contact the reporter on this story: >> Etain Lavelle in London at at elavelle1@bloomberg.net. >> Last Updated: March 16, 2006 19:01 EST > > My Response to the reporter... ... || Heard this mentiioned on the news last night. Another || hatchet job founded in ignorance. Given the extreme bias and || how they can't even get basic facts right, eg Atkins diet || forbids fruits and only allows a handful of vegetables, I || doubt they are telling the whole story regarding the patient || with ketoacidosis. How can these people present themselves as journalists if they do not properly research subjects on which they write. This is symptomatic of the state of journalism in American today. Of course my opinion of journalism today is based on the assumption that the journalist is not being intentionally dishonest and promoting an agenda. BJ SignatureRead: http://home.swbell.net/bjtexas/SS/ "It is easier to fight for your principles than to live by them." > || Heard this mentiioned on the news last night. Another > || hatchet job founded in ignorance. Given the extreme bias and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > dishonest > and promoting an agenda. Sadly, this has become the NORM for what is laughingly call "journalism" today. This same kind of treatment is applied to subjects ranging from global warming, to schooling, medicine, domestic politics, economics, as well as geo-political matters. You simply can not take what you read in the MSM as gospel any longer. You must filter every word through your understanding of that subject. And then you must critically analyze and reject those words that are patently false (as so many of them are...). L8r all, DustyB Only through continued vigilance will we remain free... ... > Sadly, this has become the NORM for what is laughingly call > "journalism" today. This same kind of treatment is applied to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Only through continued vigilance will we remain free... > ... I once took an introduction to communications class. One of the few things I remember from that class, probably because it was drilled into our heads so many times, is that the media is about controlling the flow of information or mis-information and through that control, one exerts power over the masses. :: trader4@optonline.net wrote: :::: Heard this mentiioned on the news last night. Another [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] :: dishonest :: and promoting an agenda. Tell the reporter that. :: BJ :: -- :: Read: http://home.swbell.net/bjtexas/SS/ :: :: "It is easier to fight for your principles than to live by :: them." > Heard this mentiioned on the news last night. Another hatchet job > founded in ignorance. Given the extreme bias and how they can't even [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > The Atkins diet has experienced bouts of popularity since the 1970s. > Atkins died in 2003. The people who run the AP have more power than politicians. The medical community is being challenged by the truth of the Low Fat Diet and is responding negatively as a result. They are probably afraid of loosing face and are very affraid that people should get the idea that they are not infallible. Articles like this are like part of the consequence - bash that which you don't understand in the hopes of scaring people into accepting your view. <snippage> > In a case report, doctors including Klaus-Dieter Lessnau, clinical > professor of medicine at New York University School of Medicine, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > recognized'' if people continue to follow diets like the Atkins, the > doctors said. One little detail the reporter failed to include in this article is that the lone 40-year-old female patient they're making all this fuss over is OBESE. There are other versions of the story out there that do bother to mention this fact, but not all of them do. How obese is she? And how long has she been that way? When was the last time she saw a physician before turning up with ketoacidosis? What is known about her medical history? This whole story is such rubbish, it's unbelievable. But then again, most of the news is, anymore... > One little detail the reporter failed to include in this article is > that the lone 40-year-old female patient they're making all this fuss [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > This whole story is such rubbish, it's unbelievable. But then again, > most of the news is, anymore... And was she diabetic before she started something that isn't actually Atkins? Ketoacidosis is caused be diabetes not low carb eating. She could easily have had pancreas damage so bad that low carb eating was insufficient to help her. Atkins may prevent Type 2 Diabetes and may occasionally take mild cases subclinical (which is one view of the word cure but not the best view of it). But it doesn't cure everyone. If your case is already too severe for actual Atkins to help then doing an abusive not-Atkins radical low carb undesigned plan sure isn't going to help. And was she really IN ketoacidosis at all? There are outright lies in the article so I wouldn't put it past the writer to lie about that aspect, but I'm not even referring to a lie. Blood can become acid for reasons other than ketosis. I was once on a jury in a medical malpractice trial. A woman with congestive heart failure had died. Part of the testimony was a physician who reported that she was in ketoacidosis when he saw her. The line of questioning was fascinating. Was she actually in ketoacidosis or was her blood acidic for some other reason? He could smell the ketones and her blood was acidic but he couldn't rule out other reasons. That bit turned my low carb antenna to high gain. ;^) Further questioning showed that she also had lactic acid buildup as a result of poor oxygen transport from the failing heart. Hmmm, lactoacidosis was mentioned. So we know (if that part isn't a lie so for the moment I'll just figure they are only lying in other sections of the report) that she was in ketosis. From lots of low carb reading I know that benign dietary ketosis can not lead to ketoacidosis without extreme fat fast abuse. From my jury duty experience I know there is at least one other reason that blood could be acidic. To me it adds up that they jumped on the conclusion of ketoacidosis but it's an incorrect diagnosis. The acid was from some other reason like screwed up breathing causing poor oxygen flow or she ate something poisonous that did the acid and she didn't understand what she was eating. >In a case report, doctors including Klaus-Dieter Lessnau, clinical >professor of medicine at New York University School of Medicine, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >recognized'' if people continue to follow diets like the Atkins, the >doctors said. I couldn't believe it when I saw this one trotted out again. This same case was heralded a year ago by the press, with the same conclusion that it appeared to be an unusual situation, but with the growing popularity of Atkins dieting, doctors could expect to see more... yada yada. So... it's been a year, and we don't seem to have the swarms of low-carb dieters suffering from ketoacidosis. Hmmm... probably not much risk there, if any. Did anyone notice that she lost an average of 5 pounds a week? Doesn't really sound like she was doing Atkins at all. Perhaps some semi-starvation thing she reported (incorrectly) as Atkins. Fasting and semi-fasting CAN indeed be dangerous, regardless of the macronutrient makeup of the small amount you take in. That's why fasting for more than a couple of days is ALWAYS recommended to be done ONLY under a doctor's care. Atkins, done properly, is neither a fast nor a semi-fast. Same goes for all the other reduced carbohydrate programs. It certainly is possible for folks to lose 20 pounds in the first month of dieting. But they are either semi-starving themselves (not Atkins), or they have some kind of underlying medical problem that has caused significant water retention, and most of the weight loss represents loss of that water. HG HG > >In a case report, doctors including Klaus-Dieter Lessnau, clinical > >professor of medicine at New York University School of Medicine, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > really sound like she was doing Atkins at all. Perhaps some > semi-starvation thing she reported (incorrectly) as Atkins. Yes, I noticed that too and thought it was high, though from the news report, we don't know what here weight was, whether she had diabetes, or anything else. Another interesting point to consider is this. They apparently took her word that she was strictly following Atkins for a month. Now, she certainly could be like many who show up here, especially recently, that claim they are doing Atkins, but haven't even read the book and clearly are not doing Atkins correctly. If the doctors that wrote this crap up bothered to learn what Atkins really is about, they could have at least asked her some good questions, to try to determine whether what she did was really doing Atkins or not. But since they obviously won't even bother to read a couple chapters of a paperback, how could they even figure out if what she says she was doing was in fact Atkins? The reality is, a patient could walk in and say "I've cut out all carbs for the last 3 months, only eat a little meat and cheese, " and these doctors would call that ATkins. > Fasting and semi-fasting CAN indeed be dangerous, regardless of the > macronutrient makeup of the small amount you take in. That's why [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > HG :: Hannah Gruen wrote: ::: On 17 Mar 2006 05:02:30 -0800, "trader4@optonline.net" [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] :: out all carbs for the last 3 months, only eat a little meat and :: cheese, " and these doctors would call that ATkins. No, for them to call it Atkins, the patient would have to walk in and say "I've cut out all carbs for the last 3 months and only eat unlimited meats and hefty amounts of cheese." ::: Fasting and semi-fasting CAN indeed be dangerous, regardless of the ::: macronutrient makeup of the small amount you take in. That's why [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] ::: ::: HG |No, for them to call it Atkins, the patient would have to walk in and say |"I've cut out all carbs for the last 3 months and only eat unlimited meats |and hefty amounts of cheese." :-) |Heard this mentiioned on the news last night. Another hatchet job |founded in ignorance. Given the extreme bias and how they can't even [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] |Low-Carb Atkins Diet Isn't Safe for Losing Weight, Doctors Say |March 17 (Bloomberg) -- <snip> The sad part is that the writer of that article is so intellectually dishonest that it's unbelievable. She obviously has no clue as to what the Atkins diet really entails, has done zero real research, and is relying on hearsay and myth for her conclusions about low-carb. She's vomiting forth the tired old drivel that Atkins says you can gorge yourself with unlimited meat, and this protein will damage your kidneys. I thought we were past that level in 2006. The sheer ignorance makes me want to scream! Peter :: On 17 Mar 2006 05:02:30 -0800, "trader4@optonline.net" :: <trader4@optonline.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] ::: allows a handful of vegetables, I doubt they are telling the whole ::: story regarding the patient with ketoacidosis. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=aIWlrzW5pYCc&refer=uk ::: Low-Carb Atkins Diet Isn't Safe for Losing Weight, Doctors Say ::: March 17 (Bloomberg) -- <snip> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] :: what the Atkins diet really entails, has done zero real research, and :: is relying on hearsay and myth for her conclusions about low-carb. That's part of what I told the author. :: She's vomiting forth the tired old drivel that Atkins says you can :: gorge yourself with unlimited meat, and this protein will damage your :: kidneys. I thought we were past that level in 2006. The sheer :: ignorance makes me want to scream! I'm too used to it now. People who have never considered LC certainly have little reason to read up on it (unless they're doing an article, you'd think). The whole thing is a patchwork of heresay.. Who knows if this woman actually exists. > |Heard this mentiioned on the news last night. Another hatchet job > |founded in ignorance. Given the extreme bias and how they can't even [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Peter > The whole thing is a patchwork of heresay.. Who knows if this woman actually > exists. What? The PCRM lie? I mean more than just paragraphs important to the validity of the article ... ;^) Has The Lancet gone this far down hill, or did they just get snookered this time? The morning that was announced on the radio, I had a Dr apt. I talked with him about this. He said it is possible to go into ketoacidosis on Arkins, However, it would be Extreamly Rare. We were standing by his Meds Sample closet while bs'n about this. He pointed to the meds and said, there are a dozen of these meds that will cause KetoAcidosis also. Don't worry about it. I told him I was never worried about it, I just wanted his opinion. He told me he is about to begin an Atkins plan for weight loss at his clinic. If they told stories the same way about the drugs they issue daily, No one would take any meds the put out either. Here's a link with a lot more info than I had seen previously on the medical condition of the woman in question: http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/DietNutrition/tb/2878 Here are some excerpts: >The patient had followed the Atkins diet, eating meat, cheese, and salad for the previous month, wrote Klaus-Dieter Lessnau, M.D., of New York University and Lenox >Hill Hospital here, and colleagues. >She took vitamins as recommended by the diet and monitored her urine twice daily for ketones. Weight loss was about 9 kg over the month. About five days before >going to the hospital emergency room, her appetite decreased, she became nauseated, vomited four to six times daily, and became increasingly short of breath. >"Our patient," they wrote, "had an underlying ketosis caused by the Atkins diet and developed severe ketoacidosis, possibly when her oral intake was compromised >from mild pancreatitis or gastroenteritis." This problem, Dr. Lessnau added, "may become more recognized because this diet is becoming increasingly popular >worldwide." The woman was vomiting continuosly for 5 days, which to me sounds like a person not eating anything, which is different than a person following Atkins, isn't it? I mean, even if she was swallowing meat, cheese, and salad, which I find hard to believe, it wasn't being digested, so she was not following Atkins, she was on a starvation diet. Now any reasonable person that was vomiting would switch to some food like chicken soup, or something easy to keep down, wouldn't they? Very strange that all that's on the list is meat, cheese and salad. Does anyone here eat salad when they are nauseated? >Overall, studies have shown the health benefits of weight loss, but, they asked, "are we to assume that weight loss by any means will have similar benefits?" Funny then that we don't hear all these same people bitching about gastric bypass surgery, isn't it? That has a mortality rate of several percent. But you've had hundreds of millions of people on Atkins by now, and this is the first alleged ketoacidosis case on record, it's far from clear it was caused by the diet, the patient made a full recovery, and out comes a blistering medical article. Quite interesting, isn't it? |
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