The following is a post from a low-carb community message board:
Hello all,
I have been eating the natural human dietary regime for over 47 years
now. I do not eat anything whatsoever from vegetable sources. The only
things veggie I use are spices. My diet is usually 60% fat and 40%
protein by calories. I used to eat 80/20 when younger and about twice
as much quantity of meat also, but that seems too much energy at my
age, which is 71- even though I am very active. I think the body
actually becomes more efficient with energy as you age, but I have no
way of proving it true. Otherwise, my body today is very like it was at
the age of 30. I figure most of what we call 'aging' is due to insulin
damage to the collagen and other body structures. No carbs = no
insulin. I don't heal quite as fast when injured as I did as a
youngster, however. But I have few wrinkles, and my skin is still
strong and elastic.
At this point I would like to point out that a zero carb diet does NOT
cause ketosis. The body rapidly adapts within a few weeks and begins
consuming the ketones from fat metabolism. A fully keto-adapted body
excretes no ketones in the urine. A metabolic by product, 'ketone
bodies' are actually a special kind of carb, and they substitute for
glucose at the structures which use it. They have the added advantage
of making you feel good- and well fed.
The body cannot store dietary fat, there is no mechanism for transport
across the adipose cell's wall, nor can it 'burn' carbs, which actually
are toxic in more than the tiny amount required by the brain and a few
other structures. The body converts dietary carbs (all convert to
glucose as they are absorbed) into body fat. The conversion mechanism
requires insulin which is very tissue-damaging. It is correct to say
that dietary carbs are the base cause of both heart blockage and
diabetes, (not a disease).
I must warn all of you that it is very unlikely that very many will be
able to eat as I do over the long term, or in fact, to follow any diet
for long which is much different from the one you were trained to as a
baby/child. This is because diet is learned much the same way language,
dress and behaviour is, and is buried deep and inaccessible, a part of
your acculturation/socialisation. The very thing which makes us human
is that deep and almost instinctive complex of behaviour.
It requires a powerful will and a determination to change, in order to
succeed in adopting the 'extreme' diet which this website is based on.
Even those who are morbidly obese, as powerful a motivation as any I
can imagine will have 'cravings' for what I call 'non-food' (all
vegetation and carbs) which will eventually prove irresistible. A few
may manage to stay on the diet for years, but unless you are prepared
to stick with it for maybe ten or more years, you will drift back into
eating what I consider poison. For some reason my mum was not
interested in forcing me to eat the veggies I hated so, and i was able
to eat only what I liked- mostly meat, especially hamburger and the fat
those at our table would cut from their steaks. Still I had massive
struggles abandoning the 'civilised diet'.
I suggest that no non-food be taken home, none allowed in your fridge
or pantry (out of sight is hopefully out of mind). Make a request when
seated in a restaurant that the bread bin be removed (but please leave
the butter), and when ordering, request that the vegetables be removed
from the plate in the kitchen (just say you don't like to see 'good
food go to waste').
Even during the years I was soundman for Grateful Dead, I stuck to my
guns and remained totally carnivorous. I am restricted by the forums
rules (as I read them) from telling about my essay on diet and exercise
which is posted on my website. Basically it states that humans were
totally hunting peoples until the end of the paleolithic age. No
paleolithic archeological dig has ever produced any food residues from
vegetables. Chemical analysis of bones from the digs indicates they are
the same composition as the African lion- thus, virtually no intake of
vegetation. There were no 'hunter-gatherer' societies until the
neolithic, even though some modern HG tribes still made and used
typical paleolithic napped-stone tools. The so called Nearthin and
Paleodiet thus are both nonsense, true paleolithic people were total
carnivores and ate no veggies whatsoever.
In the relatively short evolutionary period since the consumption of
vegetables as food there has not been any real adaptation to such low
grade low energy, difficult to digest foods. Because we have no
adaptation to digesting or processing vegetables as food, they are all
basically very bad for us.
We evolved as an active, group-hunting animal. We have a high natural
requirement for physical exercise and cannot live long or be healthy
without a lot of it.
I hope my post is of some help to others. Just persist. I show that it
IS possible to overcome your dietary socialisation.
------------------------------------
Check out the Zero Carb Path for more information
http://zerocarbpath.blogspot.com
As featured in Living La Vida Low Carb
http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2006/05/how-about-zero-carb-carniverous-di
et.html
DJ Delorie - 24 May 2006 00:11 GMT
Here we go again... He's probably not even reading this forum, but
for the benefit of the archives, I rebut.
> I have been eating the natural human dietary regime for over 47
> years now. I do not eat anything whatsoever from vegetable sources.
Did your molars fall out? They exist so you can eat vegetables. Good
luck with the colon cancer therapy.
> No carbs = no insulin.
No, no carbs = minimal insulin. You never have *no* insulin unless
you're Type I diabetic.
> At this point I would like to point out that a zero carb diet does
> NOT cause ketosis.
Yes, it does.
> A fully keto-adapted body excretes no ketones in the urine.
That's ketoneuria, not ketosis. Ketosis is *blood* ketones. Did you
have your blood tested?
> The body cannot store dietary fat,
Of course it can; that's where adiopose tissue comes from.
> nor can it 'burn' carbs,
Of course it can. It converts them to creatine, then ATP, the prime
mover in the cell.
> which actually are toxic in more than the tiny amount required by
> the brain and a few other structures.
My muscles can store up to about a kilo of carbs. Is that tiny? I
haven't died yet.
> The body converts dietary carbs (all convert to glucose as they are
> absorbed)
No, they don't. They're converted in the liver, long after they're
absorbed.
> into body fat.
No, into glycogen. Read a book, people!
> The conversion mechanism requires insulin which is very
> tissue-damaging.
No, insulin is a transport hormone, not a conversion hormone.
> It is correct to say that dietary carbs are the base cause of both
> heart blockage
No.
> and diabetes, (not a disease).
Genetics is involved too.
> We evolved as an active, group-hunting animal.
No, hunting and foraging. Foraging *plants*.
Hannah Gruen - 25 May 2006 12:56 GMT
>Here we go again... He's probably not even reading this forum, but
>for the benefit of the archives, I rebut.
DJ, thanks for taking the time to do that. There are so many things
wrong in that post it was a little daunting. I cannot believe anybody
is advising people not to eat at least their leafy green veggies. Or
imagining that homo sapiens was originally a carnivore.
But... you know, sometimes people believe this kind of silliness.
HG
Terra - 25 May 2006 21:23 GMT
Why do you need leafy veggies? Guess bear is as cracked as Atkins.
Only reason Atkins allowed them was for variety and aesthetic purposes-
AKA acculturation. Believe me there's not much nutrititive value in 2
cups of lettuce.
Carry on! and Stay Loving!
ALOHA!
Pat in TX - 26 May 2006 02:25 GMT
> Why do you need leafy veggies? Guess bear is as cracked as Atkins.
> Only reason Atkins allowed them was for variety and aesthetic purposes-
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> ALOHA!
There is more to leafy veggies than "lettuce" by which I guess you mean
Iceberg lettuce. Try spinach, or collard greens, for example.
Pat in TX
Terra - 26 May 2006 02:45 GMT
If you can deal with the toxins and other harmful effects, go for it. I
can't. And, it's not necessary, but it is pretty on the plate and adds
variety-- which is clearly important to a lot of people. Even Dr
Atkins.
Stay Loving!
ALOHA!
Capri - 24 May 2006 03:57 GMT
Rob, DJ tried to give you the courtesy of a reply to your inane
statements
I cant do that
You are an Idiot!
Pat in TX - 24 May 2006 21:07 GMT
> Rob, DJ tried to give you the courtesy of a reply to your inane
> statements
>
> I cant do that
>
> You are an Idiot!
Don't be shy; tell us what you really think!
Pat in TX
Capri - 25 May 2006 15:05 GMT
<<Don't be shy; tell us what you really think!>>
Sorry, the OP was just so far out in left field, I had to say
something
Pat in TX - 25 May 2006 18:13 GMT
> <<Don't be shy; tell us what you really think!>>
>
> Sorry, the OP was just so far out in left field, I had to say
> something
No need to be sorry. I got a chuckle out of it.
Terra - 26 May 2006 03:16 GMT
From: Capri - view profile
Date: Tues, May 23 2006 7:57 pm
Email: "Capri" <capri...@usa.com>
Groups: alt.support.diet.low-carb
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Rob, DJ tried to give you the courtesy of a reply to your inane
statements
I cant do that
You are an Idiot!
Capri
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And you're just rude, I guess.
If it makes you feel superior, enjoy yourself.
We just came to share maybe make a friend or two.
ALOHA!
Terra - 25 May 2006 21:14 GMT
Thought I'd share some of the good doctor's wisdom from his original
book. He got a lot right.
"We're the victim of carbohydrate poisoning" pg 5
"Many of today's diseases have one predisposing factor in common:
Carbohydrate Intolerance. Over the years a large number of doctors and
researchers have observed that the overweight person, the diabetic, the
hypoglycemic... the heart attack prone all have one thing in common:
something is very wrong with the way their bodies handle sugar and
other carbohydrates." pg 4
*** Maybe something is very right with their bodies. If most of the
popuation is affected by these diseases, and I think I can say with
confidence they are, then maybe carbohydrates are killing us.***
"Removing carbohydrates from the diet is the most permanently effective
treatment for obesity." pg 7
"So this is an anticarbohydrate diet" pg 7
"...Duncan's Diseases of Metabolism, the testbook that is virtually a
bible for doctors in the field, writes: "... no carbohydrate is
required in the diet.... it has been shown experimentally that human
beings can survive in good heath for months on a diet of meat and
fats." pg 6
"As long as you don't eat carbohydrates, you can eat all you want of
"fattening" foods {ie fat] and not put a single ounce of fat on you."
pg 15
***How many times has Bear written this?***
"You see, by cutting your carbohydrates down to zero, you have summoned
a powerful genie to your aid- a substance put out by the pituitary
gland called the Fat Metaboling Hormone (FMH)... " pg 15
"And the production of FMH is the whole purpose of this diet- and the
reason it works when other diets fail" pg 16
"NO CARBOHYDRATES ALSO MEANS NO HUNGER!" pg 23
"By trial and error, I found as time when on that I could have up to
35-40 grams of *carbohydrate and still lose without hunger, if I added
them gradually enough." pg 24
*Those were hard carbs - not carb minus fiber. The good doctor didn't
think much of fiber back then- he accused it of irritating the bowel--
sound familiar?**
"... once you understand what carbohydrates do to you, they become in
your own mind, the enemy. You not only don't want them, you feel
downright hostility for them." pg 46
"...Only with drastically reduced carbohydrate intake do we see the
benefits of carbohydrate restriction: the sense of well-being, the loss
of hunger and of pounds and inches.
What do I mean by "drastically reduced"? I mean an intake of well below
40 grams of carbohydrate a day. That's the upper limit. That's where
most of you will end your diet and begin your maintenance. Where you
start the diet, of course, is with a daily intake of zero
carbohydrates. Altho we allow a salad from the start, and lettuce does
have carbohydrates, the amount it containes is so minute as to be
biolgically the equivilent of zero. " pg 102
** Bite me, lol*
"Those salads make all the difference in the world between a diet that
is aesthetic, appetizing, human and one that's an uncilvilized drag."
pg 134
***LOL nothing about an actual nutritional NEED for them- just the good
doctor's acculturation showing!
"The Diet Revoution No-Nos (this is by no means a complete list)
[a list of vegetation] For you they're poison-- don't forget it! pg 140
***I promise not to (((Dr. Atkins)))**
On Maintenance:
"The best decision is probably to stay pretty much on the very low
carbohydrate diet on which you lost" pg 263
ALOHA!
Terra
> The following is a post from a low-carb community message board:
>
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
> As featured in Living La Vida Low Carb
> http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2006/05/how-about-zero-carb-carniverous-di
et.html
Terra - 25 May 2006 21:19 GMT
Dang-- the title didn't show up
THESE QUOTES ARE FROM DR ATKINS' ORIGINAL DIET BOOK:
Thought I'd share some of the good doctor's wisdom from his original
book. He got a lot right.
"We're the victim of carbohydrate poisoning" pg 5
"Many of today's diseases have one predisposing factor in common:
Carbohydrate Intolerance. Over the years a large number of doctors and
researchers have observed that the overweight person, the diabetic, the
hypoglycemic... the heart attack prone all have one thing in common:
something is very wrong with the way their bodies handle sugar and
other carbohydrates." pg 4
*** Maybe something is very right with their bodies. If most of the
popuation is affected by these diseases, and I think I can say with
confidence they are, then maybe carbohydrates are killing us.***
"Removing carbohydrates from the diet is the most permanently effective
treatment for obesity." pg 7
"So this is an anticarbohydrate diet" pg 7
"...Duncan's Diseases of Metabolism, the testbook that is virtually a
bible for doctors in the field, writes: "... no carbohydrate is
required in the diet.... it has been shown experimentally that human
beings can survive in good heath for months on a diet of meat and
fats." pg 6
"As long as you don't eat carbohydrates, you can eat all you want of
"fattening" foods {ie fat] and not put a single ounce of fat on you."
pg 15
***How many times has Bear written this?***
"You see, by cutting your carbohydrates down to zero, you have summoned
a powerful genie to your aid- a substance put out by the pituitary
gland called the Fat Metaboling Hormone (FMH)... " pg 15
"And the production of FMH is the whole purpose of this diet- and the
reason it works when other diets fail" pg 16
"NO CARBOHYDRATES ALSO MEANS NO HUNGER!" pg 23
"By trial and error, I found as time when on that I could have up to
35-40 grams of *carbohydrate and still lose without hunger, if I added
them gradually enough." pg 24
*Those were hard carbs - not carb minus fiber. The good doctor didn't
think much of fiber back then- he accused it of irritating the bowel--
sound familiar?**
"... once you understand what carbohydrates do to you, they become in
your own mind, the enemy. You not only don't want them, you feel
downright hostility for them." pg 46
"...Only with drastically reduced carbohydrate intake do we see the
benefits of carbohydrate restriction: the sense of well-being, the loss
of hunger and of pounds and inches.
What do I mean by "drastically reduced"? I mean an intake of well below
40 grams of carbohydrate a day. That's the upper limit. That's where
most of you will end your diet and begin your maintenance. Where you
start the diet, of course, is with a daily intake of zero
carbohydrates. Altho we allow a salad from the start, and lettuce does
have carbohydrates, the amount it containes is so minute as to be
biolgically the equivilent of zero. " pg 102
** Bite me, lol*
"Those salads make all the difference in the world between a diet that
is aesthetic, appetizing, human and one that's an uncilvilized drag."
pg 134
***LOL nothing about an actual nutritional NEED for them- just the good
doctor's acculturation showing!
"The Diet Revoution No-Nos (this is by no means a complete list)
[a list of vegetation] For you they're poison-- don't forget it! pg 140
***I promise not to (((Dr. Atkins)))**
On Maintenance:
"The best decision is probably to stay pretty much on the very low
carbohydrate diet on which you lost" pg 263
ALOHA!
Terra
Pat in TX - 26 May 2006 02:27 GMT
Okay. Try a diet with NO carbs and report back to us on your constipation
problems and your scurvy and your other health problems. And, you WILL have
problems.
Pat in TX
Rob - 26 May 2006 02:37 GMT
Ummmmm, actually I've been on a 100% carnivorous diet since Feb 23rd
2006 and I have zero constipation problems and no scurvy (just eat the
meat as raw as possible). Steffanson demonstrated 100 years ago that
you can survive quite nicely on all-meat and not be afflicted by
scurvy. That last piece of vegitation I ate was on 2/22 (a salad) and
as of today I'm down 50lbs and have lost 2 pants sizes.
Rob - 26 May 2006 02:43 GMT
For those interested in the diet are encouraged to come by the Active
No-Carber Forum
http://activenocarber.myfreeforum.org/index.php?sid=e3d3c2272fe8dbb9b031a0954b6316f7
Terra - 26 May 2006 02:38 GMT
I am on and have been on a diet of essentially no carbs and I am happy
to report much improved digestion. My Ruematoid Arthritis has also
improved. My Blood test for cholesterol -- improved. In every other
way my health has done nothing but "improve". That is my response to
the diet. You won't know your response until you try it.
It's priceless advice. Do what you will with it.
Stay Loving!
ALOHA!
gweebles - 29 May 2006 03:15 GMT
Neanderthin also is very low to no carb. I lost a ton of weight fast
and felt good when I did it, but I didn't have the willpower to stay on
it. Missed cheese and diet soda.