 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneral TopicsLow CarbWeightWatchers WeightAdviser.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / June 2006few questions...
Hi, I'm relatively new to low-carb (6 weeks, after my physician advise) and I'm trying to learn about it. I read some books (including a couple of Lyle McDonald's book that are frequently cited here) and I still have a few questions I didn't find answered: 1) I understand the depletion phase will empty the reservoirs of glycogen in both liver and muscle tissue. I also understand a lot (3 times the weight of the glycogen) will go with it. This accounts for some of the weight lost at the very beginning of the diet and it is supposed to be restored when you go on maintenance. Now the question: What is the amount of glycogen we normally carry around? Alternatively: How many kilograms (or pounds) did I lose for this effect (possibly as a function of the lean mass) and this I must expect to regain when I get out of the strict diet? 2) I understand that insulin spikes are considered "very evil" by almost everyone (including my physician). Lyle says something about the problem (fiber & fats slow the adsorption of glucides "flattening" the spike), but I would like to have some better insight on ways to eliminate (reduce?) the problem. I do not think I will want to stay in low-carb for life and, being Italian, I *will* have pasta at least a few times a week! :) I would like to avoid huge spikes when I will do so (about 10Kg/20pounds from now). 3) Lyle advises for "reward meals" and also advises to take them in the evening. While I understand the psychological reasons given I also understand having a "heavy" supper is the best way to convert whatever in fat (you will not be burning what you ate). How do those mix? Is this relevant? 4) For various reasons I suspect I have a very efficient regulation of my base metabolism. After an initial weight drop (~5Kg) I'm inching down very slowly (<1Kg/w) in spite of being on a rather strict low-carb diet (last two weeks I have been told to eat some carbs once a week; I had pasta and I didn't even go out of ketosis! it just went to a lighter level for one day). I'm considering adding some ECA stack to diet (actually I should say: "add EA: I already take the prescribed quantity of C via my coffee intake). What are alternatives? 5) By the way: Is it Ok to get Ephedrine pills and Caffeine through "normal" coffee drinking? Thanks in Advance I have some more questions, but this is already long enough :) ZioNemo > Hi, > I'm relatively new to low-carb (6 weeks, after my physician advise) and > I'm trying to learn about it. > I read some books (including a couple of Lyle McDonald's book that are > frequently cited here) and I still have a few questions I didn't find > answered: The FAQ for the group is here. http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm http://home.comcast.net/~agross/asdlc/ 1) no answer > 2) I understand that insulin spikes are considered "very evil" by almost > everyone (including my physician). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I would like to avoid huge spikes when I will do so (about 10Kg/20pounds > from now). The addition of fats or protein or complex carbohydrates are all supposed to "dilute" or otherwise modify the rate of digestion of the pasta carbs, and then to diminish and spread out in time the peak of the insulin. > 3) Lyle advises for "reward meals" and also advises to take them in the > evening. > While I understand the psychological reasons given I also understand > having a "heavy" supper is the best way to convert whatever in fat (you > will not be burning what you ate). > How do those mix? Is this relevant? There are current dietary experts who claim that this OLD advice is just old advice..... based on old thinking. The conversion of calories to fat isn't exactly done on a 12 hour or 24 hour accounting cycle. It used to be believed that the Sun revolved around the earth. This is OLD science too. > 4) no answer > > 5) By the way: Is it Ok to get Ephedrine pills and Caffeine through > "normal" coffee drinking? no answer > Thanks in Advance > I have some more questions, but this is already long enough :) > ZioNemo  Signature1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book 2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book 3) Don't Diet Without Supplemental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins book 4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other) > Hi, > I'm relatively new to low-carb (6 weeks, after my physician advise) > and I'm trying to learn about it. > I read some books (including a couple of Lyle McDonald's book that are > frequently cited here) and I still have a few questions I didn't find > answered: I highly recommend this newsgroup's FAQ to you, which covers your quesitons and quite a bit more. > 1) I understand the depletion phase will empty the reservoirs of > glycogen in both liver and muscle tissue. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > a function of the lean mass) and this I must expect to regain when I > get out of the strict diet? The amount of glycogen & water weight varies person to person. You'll figure this out for you. When you go off low-carb at some point, you'll gain X. And then in a couple days, you'll drop X. Then you'll know. > 2) I understand that insulin spikes are considered "very evil" by > almost everyone (including my physician). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I would like to avoid huge spikes when I will do so (about > 10Kg/20pounds from now). I don't know. I think there is no way to avoid them entirely if you don't do low-carb for life. Note, this does not mean being in ketosis for life, but it does mean a gradual increase in carb level until you achieve a maintainenance level. It doesn't mean going back to what you did before unless you want the same results as you had before. I'm half Italian. My father's side of the family is pretty much fat and diabetic. That's what regularly eating pasta in large amount does. As it happens, there's little flavor in the pasta anyways and most of the sauces are quite low-carb. So... you may feel differently about the need for pasta over time. > 3) Lyle advises for "reward meals" and also advises to take them in > the evening. > While I understand the psychological reasons given I also understand > having a "heavy" supper is the best way to convert whatever in fat > (you will not be burning what you ate). > How do those mix? Is this relevant? I'm diabetic, so disagree with the whole concept of reward meals. I low-carb to keep my bg stable. Rewarding myself by spiking it doesn't make any sense to me at all. > 4) For various reasons I suspect I have a very efficient regulation of > my base metabolism. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > intake). > What are alternatives? Patience. A kilogram a week is a pretty good loss rate. We have people here who'd kill for that kind of weight loss! As you get closer to goal, you can expect it to slow down considerably. And btw, that 5 kg loss *might* be the answer to your first question. If your normal loss rate is running around 1 kg/week, I'd expect the 5 kg/loss consisted of 4 kg of water & glycogen. But I'd not count on it being that much until I'd been through the cycle a few times - that's just an estimate. 4 kg is a very large water lsos, so unless you are very, very large, I'd not expect it to be quite that much. By the way, you shouldn't eat some carbs once a week, but daily. And not pasta! Eat veggies. Lotsa low-carb veggies. It's been a long time since I read Lyle's stuff, but I don't recall this much silliness in the plan - eating pasta weekly. I know he has carb-ups, but that obviously wasn't what you were doing if you didn't even eat enough carb to come out of ketosis. > 5) By the way: Is it Ok to get Ephedrine pills and Caffeine through > "normal" coffee drinking? Ephedra is potentially dangerous. Whether you decide to stack or not is up to you, of course. But your loss rate is pretty high, so I don't see the point, myself. :: Hi, :: I'm relatively new to low-carb (6 weeks, after my physician advise) :: and I'm trying to learn about it. :: I read some books (including a couple of Lyle McDonald's book that :: are frequently cited here) and I still have a few questions I didn't :: find answered: Which books? Lyle has a forum so you can ask questions there, BTW. :: 1) I understand the depletion phase will empty the reservoirs of :: glycogen in both liver and muscle tissue. What are you referring to here? One of Lyle's diets (he uses that term in his PSMF book)? Or, are you just referring to the beginning of a typical LC plan? Do you plan to be doing a weight lifting routine? :: I also understand a lot (3 times the weight of the glycogen) will go :: with it. :: This accounts for some of the weight lost at the very beginning of :: the diet and it is supposed to be restored when you go on :: maintenance. Now the question: :: What is the amount of glycogen we normally carry around? Seems as if I have read that some people can carry the equvilent of about 2000 kcals as glycogen. :: Alternatively: :: How many kilograms (or pounds) did I lose for this effect (possibly :: as a function of the lean mass) and this I must expect to regain :: when I get out of the strict diet? How much you lose really depends on you....how heavy you are, how much muscle mass you have, your frame size, whether you're male or female. Likely, I'd get 8 to 15 lbs is typical for a guy. :: 2) I understand that insulin spikes are considered "very evil" by :: almost everyone (including my physician). Are you a diabetic or someone who is IR? If so, spikes will do harm to your body. They aren't much of a concern for others, assuming you're not on the road to becoming diabetic (something you need to determine, if you haven't) :: Lyle says something about the problem (fiber & fats slow the :: adsorption of glucides "flattening" the spike), but I would like to :: have some better insight on ways to eliminate (reduce?) the problem. Insights? A low carb diet eliminates the problem just fine for most people. If you're diabetic, I highly recommend you study up and get on plan. :: I do not think I will want to stay in low-carb for life and, being :: Italian, I *will* have pasta at least a few times a week! :) Okay..... :: I would like to avoid huge spikes when I will do so (about :: 10Kg/20pounds from now). Well, fat & fiber help lessen the spikes. A good exercise program that reduces or eliminates IR is good too. Exercsie before/after carb intake is good. :: 3) Lyle advises for "reward meals" and also advises to take them in :: the evening. Which reward meals? That also depends on the diet. A reward meal could mean just relaxing a bit, and not having a carbrest. For example, if you've been doing a 1200 kcal/day PSMF, then a reward meal might just be eating more food that you like... :: While I understand the psychological reasons given I also understand :: having a "heavy" supper is the best way to convert whatever in fat :: (you will not be burning what you ate). :: How do those mix? Is this relevant? In my experience, it matters not. You have calories in vs calories out. Balancing the two is what mostly determines weight loss/gain. Given that, Supper is best for a carby meal as you're better able to resume plan the next day, after not eating overnight. Having your carby meal in the am will likely mean you end up eating more food as those BG swings will drive your hunger. hence, you end up eating more and thus slowing the rate of your weight loss even more. :: 4) For various reasons I suspect I have a very efficient regulation :: of my base metabolism. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] :: I didn't even go out of ketosis! it just went to a lighter level for :: one day). Eating pasta for carbs is certainly one thing to do....especially if you're lifting. There are potentially better options from a health standpoint. :: I'm considering adding some ECA stack to diet (actually I should say: :: "add EA: I already take the prescribed quantity of C via my coffee :: intake). :: What are alternatives? Why don't you go ask Lyle? He writes about this BS in his books. Why do you need a short cut? :: 5) By the way: Is it Ok to get Ephedrine pills and Caffeine through :: "normal" coffee drinking? Okay? Are you looking for permission? The fact is, you don't need this stuff to lose weight. Eat less exercise more comes to mind. Start a good exercise plan built around weight lifting and cardio, and use low carb as the means to eat less. > Do you plan to be doing a weight lifting routine? I strength train. :: On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:31:51 -0400, Roger Zoul wrote: :: ::: Do you plan to be doing a weight lifting routine? :: :: I strength train. Who are you? >:: On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:31:51 -0400, Roger Zoul wrote: >:: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Who are you? Really wanna know? Do you really wanna know? Who, who, who are yooooooooooooooooo? PS. Hint; not from Soho :: On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:00:51 -0400, Roger Zoul wrote: :: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] :: :: Really wanna know? Yes. :: Do you really wanna know? No... :: Who, who, who are yooooooooooooooooo? :: :: PS. Hint; not from Soho I had to be sure. God has cursed us. :) >:: On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:00:51 -0400, Roger Zoul wrote: >:: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > :) A believer? Tell me about your God. > 1) I understand the depletion phase will empty the reservoirs of > glycogen in both liver and muscle tissue. > I also understand a lot (3 times the weight of the glycogen) will go > with it. > This accounts for some of the weight lost at the very beginning of the > diet and it is supposed to be restored when you go on maintenance. It's restored if "maintenance" means a carb level that's the same as before you started limiting carbs. To me that looks a lot like what's called a "yo-yo diet." > Now the question: > What is the amount of glycogen we normally carry around? It varies and is based on a number of factors. Further it's part of the science, but from a perspective of practicality it's irrelevant. > Alternatively: > How many kilograms (or pounds) did I lose for this effect (possibly as a > function of the lean mass) and this I must expect to regain when I get > out of the strict diet? Experience will answer that. Part of the weight that you lost quickly at first is what you will regain. How much of it will depend on how out of control you allow yourself to become. > 2) I understand that insulin spikes are considered "very evil" by almost > everyone (including my physician). High blood glucose, high insulin, and spikes (can also be considered reactive hypoglycemia) never lead to anything good. > Lyle says something about the problem (fiber & fats slow the adsorption > of glucides "flattening" the spike), but I would like to have some > better insight on ways to eliminate (reduce?) the problem. How about getting a glucometer and putting a limit on blood glucose. For example, never let it rise more than 20 mg/dL above the pre-meal level. > I do not think I will want to stay in low-carb for life and, being > Italian, I *will* have pasta at least a few times a week! :) > I would like to avoid huge spikes when I will do so (about 10Kg/20pounds > from now). See the last response. With enough testing you'll figure out what you can eat and how much of it you can eat. > 3) Lyle advises for "reward meals" and also advises to take them in the > evening. I advise that if you're going to play that game that breakfast be the "reward" (aka cheat or high carb) meal. That way the days activities can burn some of it off. The evening meal (the last meal before the sleep cycle) should be the most low-carb of all. The typical evening meal is meat and low-carb vegetables. > While I understand the psychological reasons given I also understand > having a "heavy" supper is the best way to convert whatever in fat (you > will not be burning what you ate). > How do those mix? It may be splitting hairs, and again experience will be your ultimate guide. My experience tells me that I do better if the evening meal is early, light (calorically) and low-carb. Making the first meal after the sleep cycle the main meal is a big adjustment. > Is this relevant? I think so. It's these kinds of changes that maximize your results. Water consumption is another noteworthy factor. 3 liters a day is common. > 4) For various reasons I suspect I have a very efficient regulation of > my base metabolism. That's vague. > After an initial weight drop (~5Kg) Some of the initial weight drop is what you can expect to regain when you increase your daily carb quantity. > I'm inching down very slowly > (<1Kg/w) in spite of being on a rather strict low-carb diet (last two > weeks I have been told to eat some carbs once a week; You are getting some carbohydrate every day. Keep a journal and adjust it. > I had pasta and I > didn't even go out of ketosis! it just went to a lighter level for one > day). Sounds like you're treating this as if it were a crash diet. The cyclical ketogenic diets that Lyle explains are radical bodybuilder programs. The focus here is more on long term changes to produce lasting weight and health improvements. What is it that you're after? What's the big hurry? If you have good natural blood sugar control, a moderately low carb diet will be fine. That means up to 100 grams of carbs per day is acceptable. > I'm considering adding some ECA stack to diet (actually I should say: > "add EA: I already take the prescribed quantity of C via my coffee intake). > What are alternatives? Dropping the C and seeing if that improves your loss. Make it up (and then some) with water. Again, what's the big hurry? It appears that your goal is 10 more kilos away. .5 kilo per week will get you there in a reasonable amount of time--and you'll learn a lot about what your body responds to along the way. Use this time to experiment and figure out a way of eating for the rest of your life. To lose weight you have to create a negative caloric balance one way or another. How you proportion the macronutrients is more about finding what you can stick with over the long term. Low carb works in that regard because of the anorectic (appetite suppressing) effect of ketosis. In other words, with low carb you're not as likely to be hungry all the time even during a severe caloric restriction. > 5) By the way: Is it Ok to get Ephedrine pills and Caffeine through > "normal" coffee drinking? Sure. You can take the drug thing as far as you are willing. > Thanks in Advance You're welcome. > I have some more questions, but this is already long enough :) Take your time and keep reading everything about low carb and diabetes control that you can get your hands on. -- > Hi, > I'm relatively new to low-carb (6 weeks, after my physician advise) [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > diet and it is supposed to be restored when you go on maintenance. > Now the question: Let me just throw my opinion in here. Try not to overanalyze all this. Often over-thinking keeps us from being sucessful. This is not a diet. It's a way of eating for the rest of your life. It's been 8 years for me. Cut your carbs, and you'll lose weight and feel great. Before you know it, you'll be raving to others. Sugar & starch is the evil enemy. SignatureJK Sinrod www.sinrodstudios.com www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com > 1) I understand the depletion phase will empty the reservoirs of > glycogen in both liver and muscle tissue. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Now the question: > What is the amount of glycogen we normally carry around? There's no good way to find out. You know how much you lost in the first two weeks and you know that some of it was fat. Ignore the standard pause during weeks 3+4, then use your loss rates in weeks 5-9. Subtract half of your loss in weeks 5-9 from your loss in weeks 1-2 and that's as good a guess as you'll be able to come up with. > Alternatively: > How many kilograms (or pounds) did I lose for this effect (possibly as > a function of the lean mass) and this I must expect to regain when I > get out of the strict diet? Major mistake in meaning: Maintenance and strict diet. Do not think that there is no middle ground. Do not think that maintenance is automatically strict or not strict. Most diet plans become less strict over time and if yours doesn't you should reevaluate it. Most maintenance plans should not cause your water regain either. If you go back to eating like you did before you started, your water and glycogen will recharge. If you stay reasonably low in carbs your water and glycogen probably will not. > 2) I understand that insulin spikes are considered "very evil" by > almost everyone (including my physician). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I would like to avoid huge spikes when I will do so (about > 10Kg/20pounds from now). Consider - If you go off low carb whatever health problems that you had that put you on the plan will come back. Mix that into your attitude about that pasta which put you into those health problems in the first place. maybe a couple of times per month will be a better idea than a few times per week? > 3) Lyle advises for "reward meals" and also advises to take them in > the evening. > While I understand the psychological reasons given I also understand > having a "heavy" supper is the best way to convert whatever in fat > (you will not be burning what you ate). > How do those mix? Is this relevant? The heavy meal theory is based on low fat not low carb so it does not work as well on low carb. On low carb your total calories per day continue to matter, but how you eat them in meals matters much less. > 4) For various reasons I suspect I have a very efficient regulation of > my base metabolism. > After an initial weight drop (~5Kg) I'm inching down very slowly > (<1Kg/w) in spite of being on a rather strict low-carb diet Reality check - On the Atkins plan a stall is defined as 4+ weeks without a new low. This definition isn't arbitrary. It is to show newbies that the initial fast losses tend to give newbies unrealistic expectations. As long as you are seeing new lows monthly you are doing fine. The fact that you now think losing a pound a week is slow doesn't mean your feelings on the topic are realistic. They aren't. About 2 KG per month is an ideal loss rate to keep it off. NOT slow and no way it implies very efficient regulation. > I'm considering adding some ECA stack to diet (actually I should say: > "add EA: I already take the prescribed quantity of C via my coffee > intake). > What are alternatives? The real alternative is to correct your false impression that you are losing slowly. Do that, realise you are doing great, and maybe you won't feel the need for an extreme and unjustified overreaction. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.