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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / August 2006Please read it could happen to you
I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and came accross it and felt compelled to share. If you dont appreciate what I have to say ignore it but maybe I can help one person. My name is Dee Im 25yrs old and I have two children. I started my LC diet 5yrs ago and have used it whenever necc. to maintain a healthy weight. I started at 230lbs (5'9). After having my kids and my Dr warned me my weight was becoming a health issue. I tried low calorie, low fat diets and failed. A friend turned me on to Atkins and at first it was hard esp. the induction (phew!) but afterwards the weight started coming off. I felt better, I was more active, I looked better and I had finally found my miracle cure for obesity. I followed all the rules and never deprived myself of the carbs i needed. I was 145lbs and felt fantastic! On top of the world I drank lots of water took my supplements (Atkins vitamins) and was just coasting finally happy where I was (from a size 20 to an 8) It took years as Im sure many of you have done almost exactly the same to achieve your goals. Then it happened...two months ago I was running on my treadmill as I did 3 times week and have for years and I collapsed. I was home alone with my kids and didnt even know what hit me. At the hospital he doctor told me I had severe arrythmias and needed to see a Cardiologist. After a series of tests (EKG,Echo, Holter moniter) they informed me that I have two valve regurges and the PVC's (premature valve contractions) where at a critical point. They are trying to regulate it with beta blockers but I havent been able to excersize or diet since. Also now I am always out of breath and cant even have a normal sex life, or run with my children without my heart jumping out of my chest or even fainting. The doctors told me it was the LC that damaged my heart and I will probably always have problems. My life is now more restricted than before the weight loss.I have no history of heart disease in my family and am only 25 yrs old. I have never been more afraid of losing my life. The thought that I could have died and my children would have seen that happen to their mom hurts so bad. If your happy with you LC lifestyle you dont have to listen to me and sure there is a slight possibility the doctors are wrong but its slim. If you live your life by statistics and you know thats the dangers are there remember, there is a chance it could be you. I was an advocate for the LC lifestyle just like many of you and I am not here to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I still have to create with my children. Beware. What makes you think the doctors were not wrong? What makes you think that this would not have happened to you otherwise and that having lose your weight is what has allowed to you survive? What proof at all do your doctors have that simple LC eating caused this problem. I'm sorry for your fate, but don't be so easy to fool. :: I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and came :: accross it and felt compelled to share. If you dont appreciate what [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] :: offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories :: I still have to create with my children. Beware. Roger, there is always a possibility the doctors are wrong there are misdiagnosed people everywhere. I am not claiming they are God but this is they're medical opinion and thats why they are doctors. I am not trying to be a fool I am just another patient and have no alternative but to go by what they tell me i cant diagnose myself. I will seek an opinion outside of this cardiology group however and see if anyone else can diagnose more to my likeing. I would love to believe i didnt do this to myself. >What makes you think the doctors were not wrong? What makes you think that >this would [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >:: offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories >:: I still have to create with my children. Beware. :: Roger, there is always a possibility the doctors are wrong there are :: misdiagnosed people everywhere. I am not claiming they are God but [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] :: see if anyone else can diagnose more to my likeing. I would love to :: believe i didnt do this to myself. No one can say for sure if you did this to yourself or not. Being obese and having a poor lifestyle can take its toll on all of us. However, your doctors are simply speculating. If you press them, they'll have to admit it or change the subject. Even though they likely won't admit it to you, I'd be willing to bet money none of them will go on record with such claims. Perhaps you should request a copy of your medical records to see if they have written that your LC diet is the reason for your heart issues. It would be interesting, in any case. Anyway, good luck to you. Thank you that is helpfull >:: Roger, there is always a possibility the doctors are wrong there are >:: misdiagnosed people everywhere. I am not claiming they are God but [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Anyway, good luck to you. > Roger, there is always a possibility the doctors are wrong there are > misdiagnosed people everywhere. I am not claiming they are God but this is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cardiology group however and see if anyone else can diagnose more to my > likeing. I would love to believe i didnt do this to myself. Your alternative is to read the relevent medical literature so you can discern knowledgable doctors and medical advice from stupid stuff. Susan there is sooo much "medical literature" out there that both contradicts and confirms the doctors claims its hard to tell what to trust and what not to >> Roger, there is always a possibility the doctors are wrong there are >> misdiagnosed people everywhere. I am not claiming they are God but this is [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Susan > there is sooo much "medical literature" out there that both contradicts and > confirms the doctors claims its hard to tell what to trust and what not to No, there are contradictory and biased conclusions, but the data tell the story. You've been hoodwinked by stupid doctors. Susan There could be so many factors involved in your heart problems, including the previous weight, that those doctors telling you it was the LC that caused the problems is a little irresponsible IMO. If they have that in their mind, that LC is the only thing that caused it, I would change doctors, since they're probably not going to be able to see past your diet when looking for reasons and treatments. They could be missing something else. However, if you're not a troll, I'm sorry for your problems, and hope you're better soon. Cheri > I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and came accross it >and felt compelled to share. If you dont appreciate what I have to say ignore [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I >still have to create with my children. Beware. > If they have > that in their mind, that LC is the only thing that caused it, I would > change doctors, since they're probably not going to be able to see past > your diet when looking for reasons and treatments. They could be missing > something else. This is a very intelligent thought. I myself would take another opinion at least. >However, if you're not a troll, I'm sorry for your > problems, and hope you're better soon. I second that wish. But reading you, Cheri, I couldn't help thinking to myself: "... and if you are a troll, we're sorry for your problem too." Btw, valve regurges are something due to multiple infections or malformations you are born with. Huey LOL -- Cheri >I second that wish. But reading you, Cheri, I couldn't help thinking to >myself: >"... and if you are a troll, we're sorry for your problem too." huey..I will seek another opinion...should I hide the fact i was a LC'r. >> If they have >> that in their mind, that LC is the only thing that caused it, I would [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Huey :: huey..I will seek another opinion...should I hide the fact i was a :: LC Given that you were eating normal food, why mention it? That's what got you in this situation with misinformation. they asked about my lifestyle and diet I answered honestly I had no idea this was to be the outcome but they felt very strongly about this being the cause >:: huey..I will seek another opinion...should I hide the fact i was a >:: LC > >Given that you were eating normal food, why mention it? That's what got you >in this situation with misinformation. thank you i will seek another opinion but as I was asking huey..should I hide the fact I was on a LC lifestyle >There could be so many factors involved in your heart problems, >including the previous weight, that those doctors telling you it was the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >>to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I >>still have to create with my children. Beware. You could certainly tell them what you were eating, without mentioning LC. For instance, you said " i did eat as balance as possible with very little fatty meats and lots of veggies, fish ,my atkins shakes of course, chicken whole grains wtithout going over my carb limit." Try telling them all of that without mentioning the Atkins shakes, or the carb limit, just so they don't have the LC lifestyle to blame from the get-go and will look further. Good luck. -- Cheri juliet00081 via WeightAdviser.com wrote in message <651aec3e2188e@uwe>... >thank you i will seek another opinion but as I was asking huey..should I hide >the fact I was on a LC lifestyle [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >>Cheri > .........Then it happened...two months ago I was running on my treadmill > as I did 3 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > are trying to regulate it with beta blockers but I havent been able to > excersize or diet since. Then just cut back the AMOUNT to maintain. That's what I did when I was incapacitated with a badly broken knee. Also now I am always out of breath and cant even > have a normal sex life, or run with my children without my heart jumping > out > of my chest or even fainting. The doctors told me it was the LC that > damaged > my heart and I will probably always have problems. How can a low-carb diet do that? You took vitamins you said. What about MINERALS for your electrolyte balance? My life is now more > restricted than before the weight loss.I have no history of heart disease > in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > doctors > are wrong but its slim. There's more to this story than what you're telling us. And you're not giving us a menu of exactly what you ate before this happened. If you live your life by statistics and you know > thats the dangers are there remember, there is a chance it could be you. I > was an advocate for the LC lifestyle just like many of you and I am not > here > to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I > still have to create with my children. Beware. Before taking you seriously we need to know more........... -- LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 156.5 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Age: 61 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ no I did not take minerals for my electrolyte balance i did eat as balance as possible with very little fatty meats and lots of veggies, fish ,my atkins shakes of course, chicken whole grains wtithout going over my carb limit. >> .........Then it happened...two months ago I was running on my treadmill >> as I did 3 [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >Height: 5'6" Age: 61 >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > no I did not take minerals for my electrolyte balance i did eat as balance > as > possible with very little fatty meats and lots of veggies, fish ,my atkins > shakes of course, chicken whole grains wtithout going over my carb limit. I can't see how such a diet could possibly have harmed you. There's nothing wrong with it. The only thing I'll suggest is you take a multi vitamin+mineral supplement. It sure can't hurt. LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 156.5 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Age: 61 Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. =================================== > I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and came accross it > and felt compelled to share. If you dont appreciate what I have to say [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I > still have to create with my children. Beware. It sounds to me like the Phen-Fen deal. Those women were very overweight, lost a great deal of weight with Phen-Fen (2 medications taken together) and because a few (in comparison to how many were taking it) had heart-related complicatons that sound similar to this, valve regurgitation, arrhythmias, etc, this effective weight-loss solution was taken away from thousands of others. The pharmaceutical company was sued in a class-action lawsuit. Who knows how much of the heart damage was caused by the previous obesity?  SignatureLori 9 down, 31 to go > > I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and came accross it > > and felt compelled to share. If you dont appreciate what I have to say [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > Who knows how much of the heart damage was caused by the previous obesity? It's more likely to be something congenital that's come to bite her in the butt - perhaps aggravated by her time being obese. Since she gave her doctor an ready-made excuse - Atkins - he/she doesn't have to go looking for anything else though. We've seen it before. Good to see you again, BTW. :-) Take care, Carmen of the heart damage was caused by the previous obesity? Hi Lori, welcome back! SignatureSaffire 205/145/135-140 (aka JUST RIGHT!) Atkins since 6/14/03 Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333 *** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- its appearance in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. *** i have never taken any drugs LC was wonderful I never needed to and bot would I love to sue someone for this but i was treated like i did it to myself with the LC lifestyle. It was almost embarrassing the way they talked about it like i was a smoker and should have known better. I am not a liar and dont want to offend anyone so believe it or not but I am only sharing to try and help someone else. that all >> I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and came accross it >> and felt compelled to share. If you dont appreciate what I have to say [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Who knows how much of the heart damage was caused by the previous obesity? > I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and came accross it > and felt compelled to share. If you dont appreciate what I have to say ignore [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I > still have to create with my children. Beware. You didn't develop CVD in five years of low carbing, you developed it lifelong. Susan i am no doctor but the cardiologists said I did..that it is very possible and it happened to me >> I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and came accross it >> and felt compelled to share. If you dont appreciate what I have to say ignore [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Susan If you had never mentioned LC to your doctors what do you think the odds are that they would blame your LC diet? It is a convenient answer that placates you and get them off the hook for dealing with you any more. But you don't have to take our word for it. Go search WebMD or pubMed and see if you can find a single research study showing that a LC diet will result in the kind of problems you have now. Yes, while it is true that you were trying to warn others to avoid your situation, you must also consider that many of us here have IMPROVED our lifes greatly by use of LC eating. Why should we allow uninformed people to spread misinformation? I meant no disrespect Roger and I also improved my life with LC but it was temporary and if it happened to you would you hide it from others just like you. I appreciate all of the help some of you are offering me and I have an open mind but I faced death for a moment and it scared me. I wouldnt want my worst enemy to know that feeling and was only trying to be helpful I did state it was only my experience and take from it what you will if LC is improving your health then I wish the best of luck to you but I have been told this hurt me and I dont want that to be you... or anyone else. So pls. forgive me if i did offend I did research and there are documents in both directions Im sure you are aware of that so yes, its one story, one experience, not a scientific study and my intensions were only the best. >If you had never mentioned LC to your doctors what do you think the odds are >that they would blame your LC diet? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >lifes greatly by use of LC eating. Why should we allow uninformed people to >spread misinformation? > i am no doctor but the cardiologists said I did..that it is very possible and > it happened to me That must be a cardiologist who hasn't been reading his specialty's journals the past five years or so. RUN til you find a literate cardiologist. Susan lol >> i am no doctor but the cardiologists said I did..that it is very possible and >> it happened to me [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Susan I find it interesting that you say you used LC "whenever necc. to maintain a healthy weight". Which means you were not exclusively using low carb throughout the past 5 years. So how can ANYONE state that it was your low carb diet that had anything to do with your illness? If you were truly low carbing then you were eating fresh vegetables and certain fruits and whole grains on occassion as well as heart healthy fats like olive oil, avocado and fish oils. How is that unhealthy? I'm sorry, but I smell a troll. And a very uninformed one at that. > I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and came accross it > and felt compelled to share. If you dont appreciate what I have to say ignore [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I > still have to create with my children. Beware. Good point. :-) -- Cheri adgal715@aol.com wrote in message <1155944651.161590.75440@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>... >I find it interesting that you say you used LC "whenever necc. to >maintain a healthy weight". Which means you were not exclusively using >low carb throughout the past 5 years. So how can ANYONE state that it >was your low carb diet that had anything to do with your illness? If This is the first time that I've heard of any association between valve disease and low carb, or come to think of it, any other diet, excepting of course those taking Phen-Fen. Heart valve problems can be hereditary or the result of infection. It would seem impossible to come to the conclusion that this specific problem was caused by a LC diet. On what basis and evidence was this claim made? If someone came into the hospital who now has cancer and said they had eaten a lot of avocados for the last 3 years, would the doctor then say the cancer was caused by avocados? And if it's true that a LC diet is responsible, why are there millions of other people on LC, some of us for decades, without having the same problems? On the other hand, plenty of 25 years olds have keeled over and died from previously unknown heart problems that had nothing to do with what they ate. |This is the first time that I've heard of any association between valve |disease and low carb, or come to think of it, any other diet, excepting |of course those taking Phen-Fen. |Heart valve problems can be hereditary or the result of infection. Yes. I have a heart murmur (sticking valve) that is a result of a strep infection in my heart caused by rheumatic fever when I was 11 years old. Low carb has dramatically improved my overall health and made it much less likely that I will have any serious cardiac complications. The weight loss, lower blood pressure, lower triglycerides and better HDL/LDL cholesterol balance combined with the weight loss from several years of low carb have no doubt increased my life span as well as my quality of life. My doctors concur with this. The OP is a troll. It's posting from weightadvisor.com, which has been the source of frequent such trolling in ASDLC over the past couple of years. I have never used any diet drugs LC was affective enough without ever needing to. Your right plenty of young people keel over everyday and I was almost one of them. i was given and diagnosis by doctors and told the main factor in my condition was the LC lifestyle. i am not a doctor but to my knowledge i have never had any signs of HD in the past even under monitoring (at birth, previous hosp. for unrelated conditions, ect..) I am no saying there is no possibility they are wrong (who can say that) all i am doing is relaying my story in order to help someone else. I have picked up some helpful advice along the way and also discovering some people can be very defensive and nasty in preventing anyone from tarnishing the great name of MR ATKINS. But now im caught up in simply defending myself personally and this is not whatt I wanted. All I wanted to do was share my story it has affected me greatly and all of this wa with the greatest of intensions. >This is the first time that I've heard of any association between valve >disease and low carb, or come to think of it, any other diet, excepting [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >and died from previously unknown heart problems that had nothing to do >with what they ate. >I have never used any diet drugs LC was affective enough without ever >needing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > my > condition was the LC lifestyle. Maybe he thought you were only eating meat, bacon and eggs?!?!?! Some people go to extremes. But you posted above that you ate grains and a lot of veggies. I would definitely look into finding another Dr. LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 156.5 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Age: 61 Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. =================================== I dont even know what a troll is so if thats what you mean by un informed I guess I am. But one thing I am not is a liar adgal, and yes I ocaasionally went off the diet throuhout those 5yrs. but 99 percent of the time i stuck to it (vacations holidays being those times i didnt). I am simply trying to prevent this from happening to anyone else. Believe it or not but dont insult my character as I would never do so to you. Thank you. >I find it interesting that you say you used LC "whenever necc. to >maintain a healthy weight". Which means you were not exclusively using [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I >> still have to create with my children. Beware. > I dont even know what a troll is so if thats what you mean by un informed I > guess I am. But one thing I am not is a liar adgal, and yes I ocaasionally > went off the diet throuhout those 5yrs. but 99 percent of the time i stuck to > it (vacations holidays being those times i didnt). I am simply trying to > prevent this from happening to anyone else. Believe it or not but dont insult > my character as I would never do so to you. Thank you. Every study to compare the effect of low carb to high carb on CVD serum risk profiles has found LC to be more favorable in preventing CVD. You did not develop it in five years, you developed it on the diet that made you fat for a lifetime before that. Susan the doctors where more concerned with the fact I lost almost 90 lbs with ATKINS than the fact I was 90lbs overweight at one time I am no doctor and I dont know why they say that was a bigger factor but they did. And either way Im sick now and have been told that LC did it to me (that I did LC to me rather like I was smoking and should have known better) >> I dont even know what a troll is so if thats what you mean by un informed I >> guess I am. But one thing I am not is a liar adgal, and yes I ocaasionally [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Susan > the doctors where more concerned with the fact I lost almost 90 lbs with > ATKINS than the fact I was 90lbs overweight at one time I am no doctor and I > dont know why they say that was a bigger factor but they did. And either way > Im sick now and have been told that LC did it to me (that I did LC to me > rather like I was smoking and should have known better) I'm sorry you're sick, but ignorant docs say stupid, untrue stuff. You seem to have hit a motherlode of ignorant medical folks. Susan > the doctors where more concerned with the fact I lost almost 90 lbs with > ATKINS than the fact I was 90lbs overweight at one time I am no doctor and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Im sick now and have been told that LC did it to me (that I did LC to me > rather like I was smoking and should have known better) When I started low-carb some time back my NP was thrilled! I needed to lose 80 lbs. Stroke and HA run in my family and she was very concerned. All she said was to be make sure I took a multi V+Mineral every day and get at least 25 to 30grams of fiber from veggies. She also suggested I avoid or limit meats laden with fat and preservatives such as bacon. I lost about 50lbs the first 6 months. LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 156.5 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Age: 61 Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. =================================== juliet00081 who has a new, never before used address and smells very troll-like wrote: > I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and came accross it > and felt compelled to share. If you dont appreciate what I have to say ignore > it but maybe I can help one person. Which person would that be? I want to know. Who in this groups is gullible enough take notice of a SAD resenter. ( A SAD resenter is a *FAT* person who envies people who are Successful At Dieting.) You must be a SAD resenter because you would be unlikely to have any other reason to troll against those who are managing to lose weight, something you must be incapable of doing. Trolls around here are generally either fat haters or diet resenters. My name is Dee Im 25yrs old and I have > two children. I started my LC diet 5yrs ago and have used it whenever necc. > to maintain a healthy weight. I started at 230lbs (5'9). A beach ball with legs eh? When you sit down, how long does it take for the quivering to stop? After having my kids > and my Dr warned me my weight was becoming a health issue. Becoming ???? I tried low > calorie, low fat diets and failed. A friend turned me on to Atkins and at > first it was hard esp. the induction (phew!) but afterwards the weight [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Then it happened...two months ago I was running on my treadmill as I did 3 > times week and have for years and I collapsed. Did you damage the treadmill? I was home alone with my kids > and didnt even know what hit me. Maybe it was one of the kids? Fat mothers often have delinquent kids. At the hospital he doctor told me I had > severe arrythmias and needed to see a Cardiologist. After a series of tests > (EKG,Echo, Holter moniter) they informed me that I have two valve regurges > and the PVC's (premature valve contractions) where at a critical point. What has that to do with eating less carbs? That is a result of a combination of hereditary factors and the abuse you heaped on your body during most of your life. They > are trying to regulate it with beta blockers but I havent been able to > excersize or diet since. Back to being a beach ball eh? Also now I am always out of breath and cant even > have a normal sex life, That must be a relief for your partner. or run with my children without my heart jumping out > of my chest or even fainting. You like using superfluous "even"s don't you? The doctors told me it was the LC that damaged > my heart and I will probably always have problems. Can I borrow your Doctor's crystal ball? Can I, Can I??? He must have one as there is no other way that he could be sure just what damaged your heart. By the way, he was probably right about you always having problems. Some people simply blunder through life creating problems for themselves. You may well be one of them. My life is now more > restricted than before the weight loss.I have no history of heart disease in > my family and am only 25 yrs old. I have never been more afraid of losing my > life. The thought that I could have died and my children would have seen that > happen to their mom hurts so bad. If your happy with you LC lifestyle you > dont have to listen to me I am and I won't, but thank you for allowing me the privilege. > and sure there is a slight possibility the doctors > are wrong but its slim. As compared to you, who is no longer slim. If you live your life by statistics and you know > thats the dangers are there remember, there is a chance it could be you. I > was an advocate for the LC lifestyle just like many of you and I am not here > to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I > still have to create with my children. Beware. Crap. Atkins may be extreme but this is a low carb group not an Atkins group. Who cares about Atkins? I sure don't. Low carb is in reality *NORMAL* carb, i.e., the sort of diet that existed before the mass influx of low nutrition commercially prepared high carb foods. Low carb is cutting out the crap, nothing more. Tell your Doctor that Salty has joined the long list of people who think that he is a clueless fool. Salty LOL, I really would like to use that as a sig line at times. Still chuckling. -- Cheri >Some people simply blunder through life creating problems for themselves. You >may well be one of them. Hello Mr Salty, What a very informative response...I guess you well thought out ,mean little jokes help you sleep better at night. I am not a complete failure you know my doctor makes me follow a heart healthy diet and although not as slim as before I am a healthy weight (5"9 160lbs) but if poking fun at exactly what this site is supposed to be supporting, which, I thought was sharing our experiences with LC is what you do then I guess you do it well. As for all the other nasty remarks I forgive you because I obviously struck a nerve with you. So forgive me, I simply was trying to prevent this from happening to someone else. I have gotton some helpfull advice and I will seek a second opinion. Butjust so you know, treating other people like dirt doesnt always make you RIGHT it just makes you look disrespectfull and without any useful knowledge to share. So thank you so much for all the time it took to write all of your pointless and mean responses. >juliet00081 who has a new, never before used address and smells very >troll-like wrote: [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > >Salty > Hello Mr Salty, What a very informative response... Thank you. I am glad that I could be of assistance. I guess you well thought > out ,mean little jokes help you sleep better at night. They weren't jokes, and I sleep fine thank you. I am not a complete > failure you know my doctor makes me follow a heart healthy diet and although > not as slim as before I am a healthy weight (5"9 160lbs) 160lbs at 5'9" is NOT healthy. It might not be classed as obese, but it is *FAT*! but if poking fun at > exactly what this site is supposed to be supporting, which, I thought was > sharing our experiences with LC is what you do then I guess you do it well. You weren't sharing experiences, you were attacking LC. You also were doing it from an address that had not been used before. It smells rather trollish to me. > As for all the other nasty remarks I forgive you because I obviously struck a > nerve with you. Nope - all nerves intact and functioning, particularly my BS sensor. So forgive me, I simply was trying to prevent this from > happening to someone else. It didn't happen to you, how can it happen to someone else? I have gotton some helpfull advice and I will seek > a second opinion. Butjust so you know, treating other people like dirt doesnt > always make you RIGHT it just makes you look disrespectfull and without any > useful knowledge to share. I was not trying or intending to be respectful. I have no respect for people who deliberately or through stupidity try to diminish something that is good and useful to many people, i.e., a low carb lifestyle. So thank you so much for all the time it took to > write all of your pointless and mean responses. No problem. Thanks for the feedback. Salty 160 lbs at 5'9 is not fat ...and i dont know what you look like but surely you must be a knockout because you certainly are lacking in the personality are and if not your screwed. And all of that anger sounds a little like pint up sexual frustration o me so maybe your the one who needs a little help in that area. Maybe you should sign up for the Viagra support group you might be a little more pleasant and as far as nerves you sure are full of them but thats not all your full of. You dont know me but Im sure if you did Mr Salty your tone might change a smidge. And if you think Im fat you must be some pipsqueek thats sacrificed the weight of his Brain (among other things) to be as thin as Barbie and Ken are...do you have the convertable yet. Only people so insecure in themselves can be so judgemental of others so let me throw you a bone it sounds like you might need one, and who knows you just might bark back...i hope this was imformative to you as all of your remarks have been to me. if not try, www.impotentangrymenwhoattackpeopleandtheirweaknessestomakethemselvesfeelbetter.com hope you got all that >> Hello Mr Salty, What a very informative response... > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >Salty > 160 lbs at 5'9 is not fat Yes it is, no matter how you try to justify it, it is way too heavy to be classed as fit (& attractive). It may (if you are athletic etc., and most of the weight is muscle) still be healthy, unlikely but possible, ...and i dont know what you look like but surely > you must be a knockout I am fit and healthy, not a knockout, (though women ten-fifteen years younger still make passes and that keeps me smiling ;)) but little changed from the days of college athletics. I work at staying that way, a part of that work is in eating healthily and not eating any carbs that don't add a form of nutrition that I can't get elsewhere. Refined carbs and a lack of physical exertion are the root cause of most people's weight problems, not fat or protein. I keep up an athletic lifestyle even though I am now too old to be competitive except in age classes. because you certainly are lacking in the personality > are and if not your screwed. Nope, I have no problem with people (that I like) liking me. You are a bit arrogant to assume that if I don't appeal to you, then I cannot appeal to anyone else. I don't like the impression of you that I have derived from your posts. You seem none too bright in that you can accept that reducing dietary carbs can create major illness. I have a problem with people who don't use their intellect. You know, that old cliché about "not suffering fools..." And all of that anger Show me one single angry word? I am not angry, I am amused. You don't make me angry, not many people can, although the fool with the posts about Nazi Gas chambers comes close. I'd like a chance to punch him out, but I wouldn't really be angry, just offended. sounds a little like pint > up sexual frustration A pint of milk maybe, but sexual frustration? You mean pent (carelessness in posts indicates that you are likely careless in other areas of your life) The "i" key is nowhere near the "e" key, so it isn't really a typo. No, I have a far more than adequate sex life - quite delightful in fact - sorry, you are not having much luck probing for weak spots are you? o me so maybe your the one who needs a little help in > that area. Maybe you should sign up for the Viagra support group you might be > a little more pleasant and as far as nerves you sure are full of them but > thats not all your full of. You dont know me but Im sure if you did Mr Salty > your tone might change a smidge. I may, but probably not in the way that you imply. I am easily amused by visual imagery. And if you think Im fat you must be some > pipsqueek thats sacrificed the weight of his Brain (among other things) to be > as thin as Barbie and Ken are...do you have the convertable yet. Yes, I have a convertible. And a hard top, a boat, and a motorcycle. Plus many other things. Why do you ask? Only people > so insecure in themselves can be so judgemental Nonsense. I have more self confidence (and the arrogance that sometimes goes with it) than most. I just don't like people who don't think. People like you. You have been hugely fat since your teens, you eventually tried low carb and lost some weight, but even then, while you were trying it, you didn't do enough research, understand it well enough to realise that cutting carbs doesn't damage health. That is the way stupid people bumble through life. You had a problem but didn't solve it. I respect people who, when they have a problem, learn how to solve it, then actually go out and solve it. You on the other hand, are dumb enough to believe that if you failed then anyone else attempting the same thing is just as likely to fail. Low carb eating doesn't damage health. Those idiots who decide (against Atkins own advice) to remain on a semi-permanent induction diet may damage themselves, but with people like that, almost anything they do is likely to fail. The damage in most cases, has been done way before they start trying to lose weight, by the many years of abuse to their bodies. Salty > > 160 lbs at 5'9 is not fat > > Yes it is, no matter how you try to justify it, it is way too heavy to > be classed as fit (& attractive). It may (if you are athletic etc., and > most of the weight is muscle) still be healthy, unlikely but possible, I disagree with you. 160 lbs is solidly in the range considered healthy for a 5'9" person (look at the weight chart on Fitday). It sounds like you've bought into the stick-thin model/actress as an ideal body type. > You are a > bit arrogant to assume that if I don't appeal to you, then I cannot > appeal to anyone else. Pot, Kettle. SignatureSaffire 205/145/135-140 (aka JUST RIGHT!) Atkins since 6/14/03 Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333 *** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- its appearance in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. *** >>>160 lbs at 5'9 is not fat >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I disagree with you. I'll just bet you do Saffy. You'll have to excuse me if I am not impressed by the opinion of a woman who is even fatter. It tends to be a little self serving. I have no problem with a person who is fat if they are ok with that. I have a major problem with a person who spends their lives fat and complaining about it, unsuccessfully trying to lose weight but lacking the self discipline to do so. They are weak. I also find it rather idiotic to pretend that a fat woman can be sexually attractive - they aren't, even if their partners stick with them, it doesn't mean that their partners like them fat. It means that they have other qualities that appeal sufficiently to their partner to compensate for their unattractiveness. Or that their partners simply aren't capable of finding someone more appealing who will accept them (the partners.) 160 lbs is solidly in the range considered healthy > for a 5'9" person (look at the weight chart on Fitday). It sounds like > you've bought into the stick-thin model/actress as an ideal body type. I haven't bought into anything, I have a normal male sexual response to women and for me, stick thin isn't appealing, fit and youthful looking without excess fat is what appeals. Most of my partners, over the years, and my current partner have a BMI of around 18-19. My sister in law is also 5'9" and at 138lbs is carrying too much weight after having a baby. She is trying to get back to her original weight of 126. She won't be seen dead in a bikini at her current weight, something that somewhat annoys my brother as we are all surfers and used to living in beachware. >>You are a >>bit arrogant to assume that if I don't appeal to you, then I cannot >>appeal to anyone else. > > Pot, Kettle. Pot Kettle be damned. 160lbs at 5'9" isn't going to appeal physically to any normal male. Many may say to their partners that it ok, but if they could push a button and have that same partner drop twenty or thirty lbs and tone up, how many do you *really* think wouldn't push the button. Very few I'll tell you now. The OP may have other qualities that appeal to some men, but overweight and lacking initiative and intelligence certainly makes her unappealing to me. BTW, the thing that appeals to me most about a woman is wit, humor, style and an attractive smile, not her figure. She can be short or tall, full figured or flat chested, it doesn't matter. However once she has flab on her, if she is no longer attractive naked, then that detracts, from a sexual point of view, but not from a friendship point of view. I don't regard every woman I meet as a potential sexual partner. I just don't like the self deluding hypocrisy that is often rife on diet groups. Fat is fat, medical stats, insistence that a man must have been "brain washed" into finding fat unappealing, that all models are abnormal are all part of that hypocrisy. I grew up living on beaches and surfing. Fat people, male or female were pretty uncommon in those days. My "ideals" as far as women are concerned, were based on girls who lived a fit, active, very healthy lifestyle. When I was in my teens and early twenties, I did not ever meet a woman who was actively concerned with diet. That is a much more recent phenomena, one that seems to have accelerated remarkably in the last two decades. It still isn't too bad when looking at locals around surfing beaches, most of them are still fit, but the tourists are often puke inducing when sighted in beachware. I have a neighbour, a local doyen, who is in her late sixties but looks more like early fifties facially, twenties figure-wise - a surfer who now mostly uses a ski - and she still looks good in a bikini although she mostly wears a one piece or shorts. I'd guess her to be about 112-115 (I've lifted her up a few times) and 5'3". She isn't skinny, she is very, very curvaceous. She turns a lot of heads, gets a lot of shocked looks too when people get close enough to realise how old she is. It gives her a chuckle. I regard her as an example of what a lifetime of healthy living can result in. I hope to emulate her, as do most of the younger woman around here. Salty > >>>160 lbs at 5'9 is not fat > >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > You'll have to excuse me if I am not impressed by the opinion of a woman > who is even fatter. It tends to be a little self serving. I wasn't talking about MY weight or height. > 160 lbs is solidly in the range considered healthy > > for a 5'9" person (look at the weight chart on Fitday). It sounds like [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > women and for me, stick thin isn't appealing, fit and youthful looking > without excess fat is what appeals. I said nothing about being appealing to the opposite sex, I said that 160 is solidly in the range considered healthy for 5'9". I also said nothing about fitness. Looking youthful and fit and sexually appealing is a different issue from being a healthy weight for one's height. > >>You are a > >>bit arrogant to assume that if I don't appeal to you, then I cannot [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > to some men, but overweight and lacking initiative and intelligence > certainly makes her unappealing to me. My point with the pot, kettle remark is that it is ironic that AS you are pointing out that what appeals to one person may not appeal to another, you are slamming anyone who doesn't meet and disagrees with your rigid standard of what's appealing. > BTW, the thing that appeals to me most about a woman is wit, humor, > style and an attractive smile, not her figure. She can be short or tall, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > don't regard every woman I meet as a potential sexual partner. I just > don't like the self deluding hypocrisy that is often rife on diet groups. You are still making it ALL about sex. Being fit and muscular is nice, but it's not always achievable. It doesn't mean that ANYTHING else is UNacceptable. You sound a lot like Archon, who used to post here. You even come in through the same server (fu-berlin.de). He also had exceptionally judgmental standards of acceptable body types, right down to EXACT specifications (he was downright pathological about it). The majority of the people here disagreed with him (including the men). I eventually figured out that making women feel bad about themselves was VERY important to him. He rarely missed an opportunity to critcize women's bodies in the guise of being truthful and objective, whether they asked him for his opinion or not. You have a preference for a certain body type, and that's okay -- that's your thing, but just because that's YOUR preference does not mean that it is the only ACCEPTABLE one to anyone else on earth. Based on your postings to this group thus far, I think your primary purpose here is to belittle people (men, as well as women). Is "juliet00081" a troll? Maybe, maybe not (I'm leaning toward not, but I could be wrong). Are YOU a troll? IMO, yes (and I'm not even basing that opinion on the flame war between the two of you). SignatureSaffire 205/145/135-140 (aka JUST RIGHT!) Atkins since 6/14/03 Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333 *** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- its appearance in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. *** >>>>>160 lbs at 5'9 is not fat >>>> [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > You are still making it ALL about sex. I just very clearly stated that women can appeal on two levels, one sexual, one friendship based. How is that *all* about sex? Being fit and muscular is nice, > but it's not always achievable. With very few exceptions, it is achievable. Many do not want to go to the effort. I accept that and have no problem with it. My problem is with those that complain about their weight and their appearance, but want a magic bullet, who aren't prepared to put in the effort to achieve what they want. They are never responsible for their weight. They pounce on every news report that claims to have found a "fat gene" or a non-contributory reason for being overweight and say, "See, it isn't my fault" ignoring the fact that regardless of the cause, a bit of self control and exercise will get them into the state they desire. It doesn't mean that ANYTHING else is > UNacceptable. You sound a lot like Archon, who used to post here. You > even come in through the same server (fu-berlin.de). Gee. Then I must be him right? The Berlin server is one of the world's most popular, and is very useful to those (like me) who travel a lot. He also had > exceptionally judgmental standards of acceptable body types, right down > to EXACT specifications (he was downright pathological about it). I have also made clear that aside from not being flabby and out of condition, body types mean little to me. They never have. Faces, eyes, and intellect are what I find attractive. The > majority of the people here disagreed with him (including the men). I > eventually figured out that making women feel bad about themselves was > VERY important to him. He rarely missed an opportunity to critcize > women's bodies in the guise of being truthful and objective, whether > they asked him for his opinion or not. I responded to a post that was blaming low carb for a woman's problems and ignoring any personal responsibility for her predicament. She spent much of her life fat and then after losing weight on low carb, blamed it for health problems. > You have a preference for a certain body type, and that's okay -- that's > your thing, but just because that's YOUR preference does not mean that > it is the only ACCEPTABLE one to anyone else on earth. I don't for one moment believe that it is, or should be. Once again, I don't have a preference for a certain body type, just for a certain level of fitness and health. I posted earlier that tall or short, buxom or flat chested, I have no preference. I just don't like flab, and the lack of character that goes with those flabby people who forever complain, blame fast food sellers etc., but do nothing that takes effort and consistency on their part to remedy. > Based on your postings to this group thus far, I think your primary > purpose here is to belittle people (men, as well as women). Then you are not being very astute, and probably carrying personal bias. Is > "juliet00081" a troll? Maybe, maybe not (I'm leaning toward not, but I > could be wrong). Are YOU a troll? IMO, yes (and I'm not even basing > that opinion on the flame war between the two of you). It isn't a flame war, at least not on my part, it was a way to pass a little time yesterday. Alleviated the boredom. BTW, although her initial post, attacking low carb in a low carb support group appeared trollish, I doubt that she is really a troll. Just a typical overweight person trying to shift blame to anywhere but where it should lie, with herself. Salty >>>>>>160 lbs at 5'9 is not fat >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > I just very clearly stated that women can appeal on two levels, one > sexual, one friendship based. How is that *all* about sex? However once she has flab on her, if she is no longer attractive naked, then that detracts, from a sexual point of view, copied from paragraph above - you clearly believe that any flab on a woman makes her no longer attractive. That is your opinion - it is not a fact. Some people prefer someone that doesn't show their ribs when they breathe in. I think it all depends on what an individual prefers and whether a weight on an individual is right for that person. I personally have a very long torso - so if I cot down to what you think someone of 5'6" should weigh - I would definitely look underweight whereas someone with long legs and short torso may look fine at that weight. Don't belittle people because their preferences aren't the same as yours. Preferences are just that - each person has their own - like an opinion. They aren't wrong - so don't tell them they are. Diane >>>My point with the pot, kettle remark is that it is ironic that AS you are >>>pointing out that what appeals to one person may not appeal to another, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > However once she has flab on her, if she is no longer attractive naked, then > that detracts, from a sexual point of view, Yes, it certainly does. > copied from paragraph above - you clearly believe that any flab on a woman > makes her no longer attractive. That is your opinion - it is not a fact. It is my opinion and I believe that it is the opinion of most men, regardless of what they say when in the presence of a fat woman. If a man loves a woman, then he sees her differently, he can ignore any degree of imperfection. If that same man looks at another group of women, he will still see those that aren't fat as more attractive. Human nature. > Some people prefer someone that doesn't show their ribs when they breathe > in. Not showing their ribs is fine, flab is something different. It a large quantity of fat that gravity pulls into a roll that hangs over the normal body-line. I doubt that many would find that attractive. Try producing a Men's Magazine featuring such women and see what sort of sales you get. I think it all depends on what an individual prefers and whether a > weight on an individual is right for that person. I personally have a very > long torso - so if I cot down to what you think someone of 5'6" should > weigh - I would definitely look underweight whereas someone with long legs > and short torso may look fine at that weight. Don't belittle people because > their preferences aren't the same as yours. I don't, I belittle them for hypocrisy and laziness. I said before, rather clearly, that I have no problem with people who choose to be fat. My problem is with those fat people who complain either about their weight and blame others for it, or they complain that others are being discriminatory for not considering them attractive. They seem to think that the only reason they are not regarded as attractive is that magazines etc., have "conditioned" men to regard only slender women as attractive. This is ridiculous. A fit woman looks younger and more appealing, a flabby woman looks old an unattractive, media has little to do with the issue. Preferences are just that - > each person has their own - like an opinion. They aren't wrong - so don't > tell them they are. I am not telling anyone they are wrong, I am saying that I believe that very few men will genuinely prefer a fat woman over a fit woman, although many may say that they don't mind. (PC gone mad.) I am a male in my late forties well experienced and well traveled. I have *never* met a (western) male who preferred a fat woman. I don't believe many of these preferences you refer to lean in that direction. To allow that they do is not supportive of someone trying to lose weight, it is cocooning them, shutting them off from reality. I do not believe that "Fat Acceptance" does anyone any favours. By the same token, I do not go around in real life bagging all fat people, but if they ask me for an opinion, then they get one - unvarnished. > Diane Salty > >>>My point with the pot, kettle remark is that it is ironic that AS you are > >>>pointing out that what appeals to one person may not appeal to another, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > It is my opinion and I believe that it is the opinion of most men, > regardless of what they say when in the presence of a fat woman. I think I might agree with that if you said "Most men of western European descent" because if you look at what men of other races and cultures view as the ideal, you may be surprised. > I am a male in my late forties well experienced and well traveled. I > have *never* met a (western) male who preferred a fat woman. Oh, there you go. You've never been to a BBW convention then. Even if we leave out fetishes, it's not even a matter of very fit vs. very fat, which seems to be the argument you're trying to make. Yes, the average white American dude probably prefers a very fit woman over very fat woman. But those aren't the only choices available. If you add in choices more from the middle of the spectrum, (curvy, a little chunky, pleasantly plump, rubenesque, etc) you'd get a spread of preferences. >I don't > believe many of these preferences you refer to lean in that direction. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Salty >> >>>My point with the pot, kettle remark is that it is ironic that AS you >> >>>are [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > European descent" because if you look at what men of other races and > cultures view as the ideal, you may be surprised. I live in San Antonio where the hispanic population is over 50% and a lot of hispanic men prefer women in the middle of the spectrum. So it isn't most men - but maybe like Luna wrote - more from the European descent or certain backgrounds. I see lots of thin attractive hispanic (and black) men with heavier than average women. If they are attractive - it would only reason that they could have a choice of women - and look who they choose. Diane >> I am a male in my late forties well experienced and well traveled. I >> have *never* met a (western) male who preferred a fat woman. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> >> Salty >>>>However once she has flab on her, if she is no longer attractive naked, >>>>then [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > that they could have a choice of women - and look who they choose. > Diane In that case, I wonder why so many of the music videos, even when the singer (if you can call hip/hop & rap/crap singing) use very slim and sexy black women? I guess that they haven't got your insight as to what really appeals to them. Do you think that you should let them know? They might appreciate it, I mean fat women being so much easier to find and all. BTW, I spent a fair bit of time in various San Antonio bars in my youth and in those days a fat women didn't stand a chance if a slim women walked in. I guess that things must be really different now - or maybe you are a little biased. Salty >>>>>However once she has flab on her, if she is no longer attractive naked, >>>>>then [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Salty I'm not biased and I never said all. I amd just telling you what I have observed from living here since 1983. We know - you like thin women. Not everyone does - so let's just leave it at that. >>>I live in San Antonio where the hispanic population is over 50% and a lot >>>of hispanic men prefer women in the middle of the spectrum. So it isn't [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > observed from living here since 1983. We know - you like thin women. Not > everyone does - so let's just leave it at that. You are biased. Would you like to know how I can tell? It is because you do not read and respond what is written. I have never said that I like thin women. I said that I believe that people should try to achieve a healthy weight, and I also said that I found a woman who was flabby to be unattractive. There are many shades of grey between flabby and healthy, and neither fat, nor thin is attractive, (but thin would at least be healthier). Woman of the same height could range through thirty pounds (fifteen up or down from a healthy median) or so and I would still find them attractive, there is no requirement on my part for a woman be a particular size for me to find her attractive, just for her to "not be flabby". How hard is that to understand? How about you change your last statement to something reflecting accuracy? Here, I will do it for you. "We know - you dislike flabby women. Not everyone does - so let's just leave it at that." You know what? The second sentence doesn't really ring true now - does it? I don't think that there are very many men (or women) who really like flabbiness. You seem determined to argue that they exist, these flab lovers. If it is true, there is a market niche, a real entrepreneurial opportunity for a new men's magazine. How about titling it "Fabulous Flab" or "Frolicking with Flubber". Maybe "Luscious Lard" Do you think that it would sell? I think that you know the answer... Salty > >>>I live in San Antonio where the hispanic population is over 50% and a lot > >>>of hispanic men prefer women in the middle of the spectrum. So it isn't [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Salty Have you never heard of fat fettishists? I'm not sure if there's a magazine, since I'm not in the habit of shopping for porn, but there are events and clubs where men pay to meet women who are obese. There are men who are only attracted to dwarfs, or amputees, or women with mustaches, or bald women, or women with big feet, etc. If only 1 tenth of 1% of the world's population were attracted to flabby women, that would still be millions of men. > There are men who are only attracted to dwarfs, or amputees, or women > with mustaches, or bald women, or women with big feet, etc. If only 1 > tenth of 1% of the world's population were attracted to flabby women, > that would still be millions of men. Or they can simply date and marry each other. I'm sure there's a BIG man for every BIG woman out there, flabby or not. LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 155.5 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Female. Age: 61 Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. =================================== 126lbs at 5'9 is NOT ahealthy weight is is classified as UNDERWEIGHT it doesnt sound like you are promoting health at all. No, you are just a superficial OLD FART who is obsessed with still trying to be the surfer dude you once were. And as far as attacking my intelect I am a 25 yr old college student that raises two kids...so you may be more educated than me but 50yrs will do that to you. The viagra is on your nightstand isnt it. So maybe girls still smile but only because your making them laugh, but thats where the boat comes in, that will catch the attention of a woman even if you dont. You have no idea what kind of personality I have...you dont care to find out your to busy trying to make me look bad. Honestly if you and I met on different terms you might like me. Just because you dont agree with me doesnt mean I have a poor personality. This happened to me I am relaying the doctors "opinion" that is what we pay them for. If you think they are wrong then do something about it instead of attacking the ones who have been told. Prove them wrong. And by the way, there are plenty of "normal men" who think I am gorgeous just because your not one of them doesnt mean they are not normal. Maybe your not normal since you think you can define it. you do have a twisted sense of what "attractive" is I guess Ms. Monroe was just a cow to you, funny others thought she was a world wide sex icon, but guess what she weighed 145 pounds at 5'7. So there are probably plenty of "attractive" women for you at the eating disorder clinics. I know a crack head that weighs 110 lbs at 5'8 if your not already related maybe I could hook you two up, dont forget your Viagra...geezer. >> > 160 lbs at 5'9 is not fat >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Pot, Kettle. > 126lbs at 5'9 is NOT ahealthy weight is is classified as UNDERWEIGHT Bullshit. In that case most athletes and many healthy teenagers are underweight. They are quite normal. it > doesnt sound like you are promoting health at all. No, you are just a > superficial OLD FART who is obsessed with still trying to be the surfer dude > you once were. Nope. Still enjoy surfing but my primary sporting and athletic interests lie elsewhere. I am still in my forties, maybe old to you, but not old compared to the average age on this NG. Even if I was an old fart trying to be a "surfer dude" wouldn't that be better than sitting around, becoming less healthy, considerably fatter, and blaming anything but myself for my health problems? And as far as attacking my intelect I am a 25 yr old college > student that raises two kids... In that case you should have a better grasp of grammar. It is "who raises two kids ..." not "that raises two kids". so you may be more educated than me but 50yrs > will do that to you. The viagra is on your nightstand isnt it. What is your obsession with Viagra? Can't a guy manage an erection around you without using Viagra? So maybe girls > still smile but only because your making them laugh, I didn't write that "girls still smile", pay attention. I wrote that they make me smile. but thats where the boat > comes in, that will catch the attention of a woman even if you dont. You have > no idea what kind of personality I have... Yes I do, you are making quite a display of it. you dont care to find out your to > busy trying to make me look bad. Honestly if you and I met on different terms > you might like me. Possibly I would, but you would need to be demonstrating a little more initiative than you have so far. Just because you dont agree with me doesnt mean I have a > poor personality. I know it doesn't, and I didn't say that you have a poor personality. I said that based on the way that you have presented so far, you don't appeal to me at all. This happened to me I am relaying the doctors "opinion" > that is what we pay them for. If you think they are wrong then do something > about it instead of attacking the ones who have been told. I take very little notice of Doctor's opinions unless they support they data I have already gleaned from research. Doctors are just as fallible as anyone else. I primarily use Doctors to authorise whatever pathology tests that I would like done, and for little else other than surgery. Prove them wrong. > And by the way, there are plenty of "normal men" who think I am gorgeous Hmmmmm... Maybe, but I would not be one of them. What you look like doesn't really matter, see my earlier post regarding what I find attractive in women. You are overweight and less than perspicacious, not my kind of woman in any sense, either sexual or friendship. Perhaps in real life I might respond differently, but we will never know; will we? just > because your not one of them doesnt mean they are not normal. Maybe your not > normal since you think you can define it. No, you are correct, I am not normal. Hopefully I am a little better than that. ;) you do have a twisted sense of what > "attractive" is I guess Ms. Monroe was just a cow to you, No, not a cow, but she was certainly overweight. In her day that was acceptable, if I was older perhaps my tastes might have been different. funny others > thought she was a world wide sex icon, but guess what she weighed 145 pounds > at 5'7. So there are probably plenty of "attractive" women for you at the > eating disorder clinics. There are plenty of attractive women who have no eating disorders, just a healthy lifestyle. > I know a crack head Why doesn't that surprise me? > that weighs 110 lbs at 5'8 if Once again, it is "who weighs 110 lbs ..." not "that weighs..." This college you claim to attend doesn't seem to have very high standards, either that or you are a very poor student. > your not already related maybe I could hook you two up, dont forget > your Viagra...geezer. This college education really isn't cutting it. It is "you're", not your, and "don't", not dont. You appear to be the one with familiarity and some degree of experience with men needing Viagra. Shall I guess why? Salty >> 126lbs at 5'9 is NOT ahealthy weight is is classified as UNDERWEIGHT > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > In that case you should have a better grasp of grammar. It is "who raises > two kids ..." not "that raises two kids". Careful if you are going to complain about such things:) "That is *a* much more recent phenomena, one that seems to have accelerated remarkably in the last two decades" Phenomenon is singular. :: Careful if you are going to complain about such things:) :: :: "That is *a* much more recent phenomena, one that seems to have :: accelerated remarkably in the last two decades" :: :: Phenomenon is singular. This seems to be a universal constant.....correct someone's grammar on USENET and commit your own offense in the process! :) > :: Careful if you are going to complain about such things:) > :: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > This seems to be a universal constant.....correct someone's grammar on > USENET and commit your own offense in the process! :) I know:) I have been desparately rereading my own.... just in case <G> >This seems to be a universal constant.....correct someone's grammar on >USENET and commit your own offense in the process! :) Don't you just hate when that happens? LOL Cheri >> And as far as attacking my intelect I am a 25 yr old college >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Careful if you are going to complain about such things:) Not complaining, just stirring the pot a little. Ophelia as in Hamlet's lady-love or Miss Ophelia, Topsy's tutor? Seems to be more like Topsy's tutor at the moment. :) > "That is *a* much more recent phenomena, one that seems to have > accelerated remarkably in the last two decades" > > Phenomenon is singular. Shhhhh! It always happens, doesn't it? :) I must be having a Topsy moment. I'll blame the auto-correcting spell checker. I know the difference but didn't notice the difference if you know what I mean. Salty >>> And as far as attacking my intelect I am a 25 yr old college >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Ophelia as in Hamlet's lady-love or Miss Ophelia, Topsy's tutor? Seems to > be more like Topsy's tutor at the moment. :) Oh the drippy one of course:)) >> "That is *a* much more recent phenomena, one that seems to have >> accelerated remarkably in the last two decades" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > It always happens, doesn't it? :) I must be having a Topsy moment. Well I know nothing about Topsy but I will try to oblige <WEG> > I'll blame the auto-correcting spell checker. I know the difference but > didn't notice the difference if you know what I mean. Och aye laddie, I ken fine:) Salty is a sick old fatbasher and is not concerned with what is healthy at all. He's just bored looking for people to torment. I guess things slow down in the nursing home after dark. >> > 160 lbs at 5'9 is not fat >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Pot, Kettle. > Salty is a sick old fatbasher No, not at all. I can and do support those overweight people who actually want to do something about it, but not those who complain endlessly but do nothing. and is not concerned with what is healthy at > all. It is the *only* thing that concerns me. He's just bored looking for people to torment. I guess things slow down > in the nursing home after dark. I will defer to your experience of nursing homes. I won't even ask why you are familiar with them. :) Salty Funny you seem to be more concerned with grammer than you "point" and forty- something? OMG please you cant judge attractive at your age your face is probably sagging to what used to be your pecs (manboobs I believe is the term now). Listen being so attractive to others doesnt count as picking up your mother on the beach....ok. Your probably more repulsive than the people you are picking on, thank God we cant actually see you people might not take you seriously (not that anyone does thanks to your attitude) -couldnt have done better myself at discrediting you. And as far as the reason I am here it was to prevent something like this from happening to someone else although I cant wait for your HA to hit shouldnt be much longer though (tick tock gramps). Superficial people such as yourself cant see much of anything beyond your own reflection and the car in your garage, so I dont expect you to appreciate the fact I was attempting to do some good and since your no PHD just a hypocrite wih a fat mouth instead of a fat @ I dont expect you to understand. But the glory in all of this is you dont have to. I will still tell people what I have been through regardless of your insults everywhere I go and as much as that chaps your wrinkled up buns, i wont stop me. So go on bragging about your material possesions and using your oh so extensive vocabulary because it doesnt prove or disprove anything (except the fact your a jerk). This happened to me and nothing you say can make that go away. So as you sit alone eating your LC meal tonight, probably alone, I will be surrounded my family who loves me appreciating the second chance I have been given to help someone else. If I have to spend my life educating myself and becoming a professional in nutrtion to do it then thats what Ill do, it gives me purpose, something you know nothing about. So admire your looks while you can and daydream about all the women you can emulate and rot in your superficial pointless state of being. Enjoy your boat and the pretty girls on the beach..they wont want you soon, then what do you have. NOTHING you have helped noone. So poke fun while you can I would rather have who I am than be what you consider attractive because you are just as ugly on the inside as those nazi bastards you argue with. Blindfolded by your own shallow beliefs. >> Salty is a sick old fatbasher > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Salty ps sounds to me like your attraction lies in "healthy teenagers" not in real women. There are other sites for that too perv.... >Funny you seem to be more concerned with grammer than you "point" and forty- >something? OMG please you cant judge attractive at your age your face is [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> >>Salty > ps sounds to me like your attraction lies in "healthy teenagers" not in real > women. There is nothing wrong in maintaining a level of fitness consistent with the one you had as a teenager - providing you were a fit and healthy teenager, not an unfit, overweight one as so many are nowadays. There are other sites for that too perv.... I am sure there are, but I'd rather a mature woman with a similar figure. Even when I was a teenager I dated older women, most teenagers don't have sufficient intellect to interest me. Sort of like you. Salty > Funny you seem to be more concerned with grammer It is "grammar" not "grammer". than you It is "your" not "you". "point" and forty- > something? OMG please you cant It is "can't", not "cant". judge attractive It is "attractiveness", not "attractive". at your age your face is > probably sagging to what used to be your pecs (manboobs I believe is the term > now). No, that only happens to extremely fat people when they get to be considerably older than I am. Listen being so attractive to others doesnt count as picking up your > mother on the beach....ok. Would you like to try this sentence again? It is gibberish, makes no sense at all. Your It is "you're", not "your". probably more repulsive than the people you > are picking on, thank God we cant It is "can't" not "cant". actually see you people might not take you > seriously (not that anyone does thanks to your attitude) You appear to, otherwise why keep responding? -couldnt It is "couldn't", not "couldnt". have done > better myself at discrediting you. And as far as the reason I am here it was > to prevent something like this from happening to someone else Something like what? The problems you described are related to your years of being fat and not exercising, not to a eating less carbs. although I cant It is "can't", not "cant". > wait for your HA I have a very healthy heart, low blood pressure and good cholesterol levels. The very point that I am making. Healthy eating and exercise don't damage hearts, they strengthen them. to hit shouldnt It is "shouldn't" not "shouldnt". be much longer though (tick tock gramps). Hey you almost got one right, my daughter-in-law is pregnant. Shouldn't be too long now. > Superficial people such as yourself cant It is "can't", not "cant". see much of anything beyond your own > reflection and the car in your garage, so I dont It is "don't", not "dont". expect you to appreciate the > fact I was attempting to do some good and since your It is "you're", not "your". no PHD I do have a PHD. Not a big deal, many people do. just a hypocrite > wih a fat mouth instead of a fat @ I dont expect you to understand. But the > glory in all of this is you dont "don't" not "dont". have to. I will still tell people what I > have been through regardless of your insults everywhere I go and as much as > that chaps your wrinkled up buns, No, only fat people have wrinkled buns. Athletic people seldom do. i wont stop me. So go on bragging about > your material possesions I didn't brag, I responded to a question that you posed. Facetiously maybe, but none the less it was in response to your question. and using your oh so extensive vocabulary because it > doesnt "doesn't", not "doesnt" prove or disprove anything It shows quite a lot, but perhaps you have limitations that prevent you seeing that. (except the fact your "you're", not "your" a jerk). This > happened to me and nothing you say can make that go away. So as you sit alone > eating your LC meal tonight, probably alone, No, I have eaten some hours ago, and I had some delightful company. She will be returning shortly, at which time I will forgo teasing you, delightful a pastime as it may be, and give her my full attention. By the way, the second "alone" was superfluous, if you were correct and I was sitting alone, then I would have to be alone, no probably about it. Are you sure that you are attending college? I will be surrounded my family > who loves me appreciating the second chance I have been given to help someone > else. That is nice, a loving family can make quite a difference. If I have to spend my life educating myself and becoming a professional > in nutrtion to do it then thats what Ill do, "that's what I'll do", not "thats what Ill do" it gives me purpose, something > you know nothing about. I know an enormous amount about purpose, why would you suppose otherwise? Nothing that I have posted would indicate that I didn't. So admire your looks while you can I don't, I am not a narcissist. and daydream about > all the women you can emulate Why would I do that? The people I most want to emulate are those that are successful in various areas of endeavour that interest me, not simply women who look good. The mention of emulate that you seem to have pounced on was in regard to emulating someone who has spent a lifetime being healthy and active. Do you see a problem with that? and rot in your superficial pointless state of > being. I doubt that I will rot for many years yet. I am extremely healthy, the whole point of this little exercise. Enjoy your boat I do. and the pretty girls on the beach..they wont want you > soon, Not many of them would *want* me now, they are mostly teenagers. Many of them are friendly though, and seem to like me. It is the older women who flirt, oft times their mothers. then what do you have. Pretty much all that I have now. Why would that change? I have a permanent relationship that I am very happy with. I enjoy a woman flirting with me, but I don't get involved. You are (rather desperately) distorting things that I wrote. NOTHING you have helped noone. "no one", not "noone" I have not helped you possibly, but I have certainly helped many people. Another "out of thin air" non sequitur by you. So poke fun while > you can I would rather have who I am than be what you consider attractive > because you are just as ugly on the inside as those nazi bastards you argue > with. Probably. Having seen a few autopsies, I find most people are pretty unattractive on the inside. Blindfolded by your own shallow beliefs. More wishful thinking on your part. My beliefs are far from shallow, they are strong, deeply rooted, and well considered. Almost all of the spelling and punctuation errors in your post are errors of laziness, you can't seem to be bothered using apostrophes. This says a great deal about you and your problems. You take short cuts, you don't do things properly or carefully. You need to learn to go the extra mile if you want to turn your life around, cross the T's and dot the I's - no one else is going to do it for you. Salty Excuse me for not using spellcheck like you....(cheater) and as far as your female associate coming soon the blow up ones dont care if they have your full attention....or full anything else for that matter (good thing for you, huh)...So I am having such a great time toying with someone who thinks they are so much smarter than everyone else but yet I have consumed a great deal of his time so he can accomplish nothing. OMG your Einstein reincarnate arent you. Oh and I have a puncuation mark for you- ! -there its slightly larger than your apendage so use it wisely. Yes women shaped like teenagers that is brilliant and in your mind thats "normal" well Mr Salty make sure you dont miss the report on Karr tonight I believe you two have alot in common. I may need spellcheck but you need a therapist. Im getting plenty of excercise laughing at how much i seem to ruffle your feathers (evedent by each response you send). This has been wonderful and I am having a great time so consume as much of your time as you want I can go all day ,which is more than can be said for a man your age. OOOOh your smarter than me well maybe when Im 60 like you I will have spellcheck too and can pretend I have a valid point by using it. Meanwhile back in reality you have turned into more of a hobby for me as I have already moved on with my experience elsewhere. So DANCE MONKEY DANCE!!! your quite entertaining. you should have your own show like Howard Stern, you two have alot in common too. Your both hypocrits, biggots, and you both seem to have a thing for teenagers. (Eeeew) maybe you should consider bending a man over they probably resemble what your looking for. >> Funny you seem to be more concerned with grammer > [quoted text clipped - 214 lines] > >Salty <snip> Does anyone know the name of the college? I want to make sure I don't send my son there. I came here trying to help someone not waste my time with judgemental rude and nasty people, so go ahead be nasty, I remember I got cranky when my sugar was low too. Eat yourselves into a coma you'll hear no complaints from me. ><snip> > >Does anyone know the name of the college? I want to make sure I don't >send my son there. Weight Chart for Women Weight in pounds, based on ages 25-59 with the lowest mortality rate (indoor clothing weighing 3 pounds and shoes with 1" heels) Click here to calculate frame size Height Small Frame Medium Frame Large Frame 4'10" 102-111 109-121 118-131 4'11" 103-113 111-123 120-134 5'0" 104-115 113-126 122-137 5'1" 106-118 115-129 125-140 5'2" 108-121 118-132 128-143 5'3" 111-124 121-135 131-147 5'4" 114-127 124-138 134-151 5'5" 117-130 127-141 137-155 5'6" 120-133 130-144 140-159 5'7" 123-136 133-147 143-163 5'8" 126-139 136-150 146-167 5'9" 129-142 139-153 149-170 5'10" 132-145 142-156 152-173 5'11" 135-148 145-159 155-176 6'0" 138-151 148-162 158-179 Weight Chart for Men Weight in pounds, based on ages 25-59 with the lowest mortality rate (indoor clothing weighing 5 pounds and shoes with 1" heels) Click here to calculate frame size Height Small Frame Medium Frame Large Frame 5'2" 128-134 131-141 138-150 5'3" 130-136 133-143 140-153 5'4" 132-138 135-145 142-156 5'5" 134-140 137-148 144-160 5'6" 136-142 139-151 146-164 5'7" 138-145 142-154 149-168 5'8" 140-148 145-157 152-172 5'9" 142-151 148-160 155-176 5'10" 144-154 151-163 158-180 5'11" 146-157 154-166 161-184 6'0" 149-160 157-170 164-188 6'1" 152-164 160-174 168-192 6'2" 155-168 164-178 172-197 6'3" 158-172 167-182 176-202 6'4" 162-176 171-187 181-207 *Ideal Weights according to the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company tables (1983) Calculating Your Frame Size Following is the method the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company used to calculate frame size: 1.. Extend your arm in front of your body bending your elbow at a ninety degree angle to your body so that your forearm is parallel to your body. 2.. Keep your fingers straight and turn the inside of your wrist towards your body. 3.. Place your thumb and index finger on the two prominent bones on either side of your elbow, then measure the distance between the bones with a tape measure or calipers. 4.. Compare to the chart below. The chart lists elbow measurements for a medium frame - if your elbow measurement for that particular height is less than the number of inches listed, you are a small frame - if your elbow measurement for that particular height is more than the number of inches listed, your are a large frame. Elbow Measurements for Medium Frame Men Elbow Measurement Women Elbow Measurement 5'2" - 5'3" 2-1/2" to 2-7/8" 4'10"-4'11" 2-1/4" to 2-1/2" 5'4" - 5'7" 2-5/8" to 2-7/8" 5'0" - 5'3" 2-1/4" to 2-1/2" 5'8" - 5'11" 2-3/4" to 3" 5'4" - 5'7" 2-3/8" to 2-5/8" 6'0" - 6'3" 2-3/4" to 3-1/8" 5/8" - 5'11" 2-3/8" to 2-5/8" 6'4" 2-7/8" to 3-1/4" 6'0" 2-1/2" to 2-3/4" >> 160 lbs at 5'9 is not fat If Juliet is considered large frame then 160 at 5'9" is well withing the given range. > Yes it is, no matter how you try to justify it, it is way too heavy to be > classed as fit (& attractive). It may (if you are athletic etc., and most > of the weight is muscle) still be healthy, unlikely but possible, >> Hello Mr Salty, What a very informative response... > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > 160lbs at 5'9" is NOT healthy. It might not be classed as obese, but it is > *FAT*! I think that 5'9" and 160 is well within the range - it also depends on bone size. >> I am not a complete >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I think that 5'9" and 160 is well within the range - it also depends on bone > size. The charts that you refer to indicate an area of "safety" regarding weight. An area where, if you exceed or don't meet the values, your cardio health moves into a higher risk area. They are based on the average person, unfortunately, based on the average American, who is generally suffering from galloping inertia, in other words, is very sedentary. In all my posts I refer to weight for a fit person, one with a much higher muscle/fat ratio and an active lifestyle. Those charts, when applied to many people who are fit but not heavily muscled, are way out of reality. They are designed for someone who is not getting enough exercise and where being a little overweight lessens their cardio risk. If they exercise, then the chart skews to allow a much lower cardio risk at a much lower weight. Originally the charts were designed to reflect the ideal requirements for a fit and active person, but as the average person is sedentary, they have been redesigned to reflect the lowest vascular risk percentile, something that strangely, in a sedentary person, appear to favour a little more weight. Probably because if at a low weight but not getting exercise, there is a chance that the person has achieved that weight by being undernourished. Exercise is a key component to both weight loss and fitness. Many seem to want to lose weight but avoid exercise. I am a little over 6'and 158lbs and I am large framed. According to your chart I am between 6 and 30 lbs *underweight*. Very few people, seeing me, would agree. I have good muscle definition, wide shoulders and a small waist. I also have less than 10% body fat, I exercise daily and have low blood pressure and ideal cholesterol readings. My SO is 5'3" medium framed and 112lbs, once again, too low by 9 - 24lbs using your chart guidelines, but she is extremely attractive and very fit. She is not skinny, scrawny or underweight, she is very nicely curved in all the girl places, but carries no excess fat. Try looking at some French "Ideal Weight" charts. Salty "Can I borrow your Doctor's crystal ball?" you certainly need a couple >juliet00081 who has a new, never before used address and smells very >troll-like wrote: [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > >Salty | Then it happened...two months ago I was running on my treadmill as I did 3 |times week and have for years and I collapsed. |. The doctors told me it was the LC that damaged my heart and I will probably always have problems. What reasoning did they give? How was LC supposed to have damaged your heart? You say lost weight sensibly and gradually over a period of years, going from morbidly obese to an ideal weight, which must have lowered your cholesterol and triglyceride levels as well as your blood pressure as has happened with many of us. Explain please, I don't understand how this could cause heart damage. || Then it happened...two months ago I was running on my treadmill as I did 3 ||times week and have for years and I collapsed. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] | |Explain please, I don't understand how this could cause heart damage. Don't bother responding. I just noticed that you're posting from weightadvisor.com, which has been the source of frequent trolling in ASDLC over the past couple of years. Another sad attempt at discrediting low-carb for commercial purposes. You had us going for a minute, I must admit. Not bad! ACME . TROLL-O-METER . 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 . +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ ^ | | | ok ...if you say so i dont know hat trolling is or have any commercial ineterest in discrediting the LC lifestyle I am a mom in Florida sitting at my computer trying to share just like all of you. I am not here to judge anyone do what makes you happy i just want to help anyone out there who was just like me> I must admit if I had heard this story in the middle of my success in LC i would have been sceptical too. So believe me or no I am just someone typing just like you. >|| Then it happened...two months ago I was running on my treadmill as I did 3 >||times week and have for years and I collapsed. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > | > | I was doing much better dieting with the LC lifestyle my blood pressure had lowered I felt better I had more energy and was doing fine. I never had any other health problems even when I was obese (other than slightly elevated blood pressure that didnt require meds). To my knowledge i was getting healthier losing weight. I never had a murmur or any other symptoms of an underlying heart condition ever. That does not mean there wasnt one. All I m saying is the doctor said that even though the weight loss was graduall (5yrs) that LC dieting can cause muscle loss and damaged my heart. I am not a medical proff. I am simply relaying my experience so others can take from it if they wish. This hit me completely off guard I am just as surprised by the results asanyone who reads my story. >| Then it happened...two months ago I was running on my treadmill as I did 3 >|times week and have for years and I collapsed. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Explain please, I don't understand how this could cause heart damage. >I was doing much better dieting with the LC lifestyle my blood pressure had > lowered I felt better I had more energy and was doing fine. I never had [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (5yrs) > that LC dieting can cause muscle loss and damaged my heart. Truly I suggest you find a new Dr. if your insurance allows it. Any diet can cause muscle loss, especially if you don't get much exercise. That doesn't seem to be true in your case. How could a diet higher in carbs prevent muscle loss since carbs are not protein? Your heart is not made of carbs/sugars. I would actually FEAR going back to a Dr. who gave me such poor information. LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 156.5 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Age: 61 Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. =================================== Were your doctors able to explain the mechanism by which LC caused your heart problems? Exactly how did the LC do this damage? Michelle > I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and came accross it > and felt compelled to share. If you dont appreciate what I have to say ignore [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I > still have to create with my children. Beware. they said it caused significant muscle loss and affected my heart. >Were your doctors able to explain the mechanism by which LC caused your >heart problems? Exactly how did the LC do this damage? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I >> still have to create with my children. Beware. > they said it caused significant muscle loss and affected my heart. This is plain bullshit! Low carb when done correctly is muscle sparing. If I were you I'd find a doctor who is willing to hunt for the real cause of your health problems rather than ones who simply grab at the LC straw. >> they said it caused significant muscle loss and affected my heart. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > your > health problems rather than ones who simply grab at the LC straw. Her Dr. may be one of those who make MORE income when they run LESS tests on the patients. LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 156.5 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Age: 61 Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. =================================== so you believe they are using it as a scapegoat and not trying to find the real cause....Why? >> they said it caused significant muscle loss and affected my heart. > >This is plain bullshit! Low carb when done correctly is muscle sparing. If I >were you I'd find a doctor who is willing to hunt for the real cause of your >health problems rather than ones who simply grab at the LC straw. Because they either can't find the real cause or they don't want to. :: so you believe they are using it as a scapegoat and not trying to :: find the real cause....Why? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] :: Message posted via WeightAdviser.com :: http://www.weightadviser.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/diet-low-carb/200608/1 Laziness. Brainwashing by the Low Fat crusaders. In news:651d11126e9de@uwe, juliet00081 via WeightAdviser.com <u25466@uwe> stated | so you believe they are using it as a scapegoat and not trying to | find the real cause....Why? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] || the real cause of your health problems rather than ones who simply || grab at the LC straw. I would love to resume a LC lifestyle eventually but the doctors have me so afraid and they treat me like I did this with LC an should be ashamed or something like it. >Laziness. Brainwashing by the Low Fat crusaders. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >|| the real cause of your health problems rather than ones who simply >|| grab at the LC straw. > so you believe they are using it as a scapegoat and not trying to find the > real cause....Why? They get paid the same whether they give you good care or bad care. Susan > they said it caused significant muscle loss and affected my heart. Studies that have compared low fat vs. low carb diets side by side have found that low carb is superior in preserving lean muscle mass and preferentially losing fat instead. If what you're saying is true, your doctors are ignorant enough to represent a risk to your health. My nephew the cardiologist and my doc both use and recommend low carb. Susan My primary physicain was aware of my LC I didnt hide it and he was happy I was losing the weight and didnt seem concerned with the diet. It was the cardiologist group that presented it as the threat >> they said it caused significant muscle loss and affected my heart. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Susan So does my PCP - and she is happy with the 30 pounds I already lost - but would like me to continue LC and lose some more because of high BP and low blodd sugar. I feel so much better when eating LC rather than high carb foods. I get so lethargic every time I eat a carby lunch. Ready to crash about 3:00. You need to get an opinion from another doctor if this one believes that LC can cause the problem you have. It can't hurt to get another opinion. I'd be leery of this explanation. Usually diets that cause muscle loss are those ultra low in calories and/or lacking in adequate protein. LC is neither. I would press your doctor to explain further or get a second opinion. One could take the tack that the cause doesn't matter, just the treatment. But if your doc thinks LC can cause this damage, I'd wonder how smart he/she is about treatment. I hope you feel better soon. Michelle > they said it caused significant muscle loss and affected my heart. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >> to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I > >> still have to create with my children. Beware. thank you for your input i will >I'd be leery of this explanation. Usually diets that cause muscle loss >are those ultra low in calories and/or lacking in adequate protein. LC [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> >> to offend but im grateful im alive and Atkins almost ended the memories I >> >> still have to create with my children. Beware. || I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and || came accross it and felt compelled to share. If you dont || appreciate what I have to say ignore it but maybe I can help || one person. Troll Signature-- "The only man who never makes mistakes is the man who never does anything." -- Theodore Roosevelt http://www.obsessionthemovie.com http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/isacrime.html http://home.swbell.net/bjtexas/SS/ thats helpfull advice >|| I am not a regular on this site but I was researching and >|| came accross it and felt compelled to share. If you dont >|| appreciate what I have to say ignore it but maybe I can help >|| one person. > >Troll > my first time here- so I'm obviously a troll right? It would seem so. Not because it is your first time *here* (which is not where you seem to think it is ...) but because you created a new id and then with your very first post, made an indirect attack on low carb lifestyle. The posts you are making in the rather idiotic and very commercial web site you are using are being indiscriminately crossposted into various diet related newsgroups. The one that you are currently getting responses from is related to specifically to supporting low carb, not to diets in general. and I am 260 lbs- > so salty dog thinks I am a beach ball with legs whose husband doesn't > want sex with me, Do you mean there are men who could be sexually aroused by a 260lb woman? Scary thought. Seeing a woman that size naked is the stuff of nightmares. and I've lost weight before on low carb, and was > looking for a friendly supportive group, Supportive of what? Your claim that low carb is the cause of all your problems? The group supports people who live a low carb lifestyle, not those who degrade, belittle, or denigrate it. but good lord- some of you > people aren't really all that nice, Who wants to be nice? I just want to be me, sometimes nice, sometimes not. Your post didn't arouse any *nice* responses in me. You don't barge into a forum and with your very first post attack the principles it is based on and not expect to be regarded with distrust and suspicion. and why in heavens name are you > discussing hitler's gas chambers on a weight loss forum. We aren't discussing gas chambers, some of us responded to another troll (see trolls are seldom lonely, there are lots of them) who has a problem with Jews and crossposted his nastiness onto many groups, this one among them. I am > bewildered Not a new experience for you - surely? and disappointed- but at least I've given some of you > something to flame, right? You pretend not to know what a troll is, but have experienced flaming sufficiently to know when to expect it? If your credibility was tied to your weight, you'd be pretty skinny right about now. Salty What? You have noidea what credibility is or you would take some. Your advice is not only not helpful but it screams PAY ATTENTION TO ME IM SMART AND WITTY AND OH SO GOOD AT CUTTING OTHERS DOWN TO TRY AND PROOVE MY POINT. I didnt come here to discredit your low carb support group I came here so I could be of some service to my fellow man by my experience, the same reason you are supposed to be here. Your so deadset on making me look stupid by being arrogant you have not only discredited this site but yourself as a human being. I was fat 230 lbs at 5'9 BIG WOOP so were a lot of the people in here and if it makes you feel better to BASH fat people maybe you should join a different group. One that focuses on HATE so you can vent that your mommy never breast fed you and daddy didnt hug you enough and stop tking it out on innocent people. And if fat bashing is your thing Im sure there are some neonazi groups who do that too. My intensions by coming here were good. To share my story and possibly help someone but you are just a nasty human being who has no interest in the truth about anything but just personally attacking anyone who might have a different opinion. So since this is a personal attack Im going to be the bigger person (I set you yuo up for a punchline there genious) and completely disregard anything else you might have to say because it serves no purpose...its hollow like you. >> my first time here- so I'm obviously a troll right? > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > >Salty Oh and by the way SALTY if you could see me now... I would make you kiss my feet and apologize for assuming I was anywhere near unattractive >What? You have noidea what credibility is or you would take some. Your advice >is not only not helpful but it screams PAY ATTENTION TO ME IM SMART AND WITTY [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> >>Salty I live with one of them, he likes me fat or thin, it is me he is attracted to, not my padding or lack thereor. In news:4ku86mFdrnarU2@individual.net, Salty Dog <p@nty.net> stated | Do you mean there are men who could be sexually aroused by a 260lb | woman? Scary thought. Seeing a woman that size naked is the stuff of | nightmares. | | Salty you go girl >I live with one of them, he likes me fat or thin, it is me he is attracted >to, not my padding or lack thereor. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >| >| Salty >I live with one of them, he likes me fat or thin, it is me he is attracted > to, not my padding or lack thereor. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > | woman? Scary thought. Seeing a woman that size naked is the stuff of > | nightmares. Not to be insensitive, but people of either sex are not the most attractive at that weight - when naked. What surprises me how many obese people I have known over my lifetime who were only attracted to thin or normal weight people. They would not date someone who was overweight. Go figure........ LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 156.5 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Age: 61 Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. =================================== well isnt that why we all diet I went from 230 to 145 (5'9) I am 160lbs now without the LC but the insensitivity is not from what society referes to as beautiful but the comments mr Salty dog has made if you refer back Im sure you will see what we are talking about. my Dr says I am a healthy weight right now but according to Dr. Salty I am not. >>I live with one of them, he likes me fat or thin, it is me he is attracted >> to, not my padding or lack thereor. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >they don't do it very often. >=================================== ps youre loved ones should love you unconditionally >well isnt that why we all diet I went from 230 to 145 (5'9) I am 160lbs now >without the LC but the insensitivity is not from what society referes to as [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>they don't do it very often. >>=================================== > In news:4ku86mFdrnarU2@individual.net, > Salty Dog <p@nty.net> stated [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > | > | Salty > I live with one of them, he likes me fat or thin, it is me he is > attracted > to, not my padding or lack thereor. My man loves me, too -- but since *I* don't want to see me nekked, I'm sure not going to make him do it. And after losing 50 pounds, it's even worse. ::shudder:: I'll just keep my clothes on. :-) i only have one sign on name it is juliet00081 I dont know who you think im doubling as but i assure you, you are mistaken you sound insane refering to me as both people >> my first time here- so I'm obviously a troll right? > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > >Salty |
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