Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / September 2006
Will it really work???
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FRED - 10 Sep 2006 01:02 GMT I'm just not sure I can do this, but I must do something, I'm over 350 lb I'm eating for comfort non stop and I don't seem able to stop, my wife's had major surgery for cancer and is basically incapacitated its very hard to get control over domestic duties and working 6 days a week, I'm drinking far too much but it helps me sleep. sorry I'm just dribbling on I've never been good at writing, but if anyone has any advice or experience I could use a hand
cheers
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Susan - 10 Sep 2006 01:18 GMT x-no-archive; yes
> I'm just not sure I can do this, but I must do something, > I'm over 350 lb I'm eating for comfort non stop and I don't seem able to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sorry I'm just dribbling on I've never been good at writing, but if anyone > has any advice or experience I could use a hand Fred, it really, really, definitely works, but it's not magic. You have to *decide* to do it and stick with it. Usually, the more obese someone is, the more low carb succeeds where other diets don't, because it addresses the underlying cause of most obesity, which is insulin resistance.
Read a book (Protein Power, Atkins, etc.) and work the plan *as written* at first. The thing that makes low carb so much more effective than other plans is the strong appetite suppression. A lot of very obese folks report having to remmber to eat enough on Atkins.
Drinking to sleep isn't going to work for you long term, and it's not good for you in the short term, either. I've found that I sleep much better on low carb, and you might, too.
HTH,
Susan
Dusty - 10 Sep 2006 10:14 GMT > x-no-archive; yes <snip> but if
>> anyone has any advice or experience I could use a hand > > <snip> Low carbing works.
I have really just given myself 3 rules to follow. I just treat starches, flour and sugar as if they were poison. I've lost 50 lbs since april.
Rule 1. No more than 20 grams of carb per day Rule 2. Lotta water.
(My third rule is no more than 1000 cal per day, but that really wouldn't apply to anyone else. It just helps keep me from overdoing it on the protein or the fat.)
Susan - 10 Sep 2006 15:05 GMT > Low carbing works. Yup.
> I have really just given myself 3 rules to follow. > I just treat starches, flour and sugar as if they were poison. I've lost > 50 lbs since april. No starches, not ever for me these days, either.
> Rule 1. No more than 20 grams of carb per day > Rule 2. Lotta water. I net about 30-40 grams carb per day.
> (My third rule is no more than 1000 cal per day, but that really > wouldn't apply to anyone else. It just helps keep me from overdoing it > on the protein or the fat.) 1000 calories applies to me as well.
Susan
Cheri - 10 Sep 2006 15:18 GMT I can't really do 1000 calories, so I'm keeping it at 1200. That seems to work better for me. :-)
-- Cheri
>x-no-archive: Yes > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Susan Susan - 10 Sep 2006 15:18 GMT > I can't really do 1000 calories, so I'm keeping it at 1200. That seems > to work better for me. :-) That's what I eat on my high calorie refeeding days, to keep my metabolism from cranking down. :-)
How's it going, anyhoo?
Susan
Cheri - 10 Sep 2006 15:35 GMT It's going good Susan. I'm sticking with it. :-)
-- Cheri
>x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Susan Susan - 10 Sep 2006 16:23 GMT > It's going good Susan. I'm sticking with it. :-) You go, girl! ;-D
Susan
FRED - 11 Sep 2006 00:36 GMT >> x-no-archive; yes >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > apply to anyone else. It just helps keep me from overdoing it on the > protein or the fat.) Do you really have to be that low calorie for it to work? to be honest that's not much food thanks for the help
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Susan - 11 Sep 2006 02:26 GMT > Do you really have to be that low calorie for it to work? to be honest > that's not much food > thanks for the help No, YOU don't. Dusty and I are way outside the norm.
But the *good* news for you is that the thing that makes it possible for me to limit my calories so much is that low carb works at appetite control with much less food.
Most folks can eat about double what I eat, more if they're very obese.
Susan
tt - 20 Sep 2006 03:32 GMT > But the *good* news for you is that the thing that makes it possible for > me to limit my calories so much is that low carb works at appetite control [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Susan Hi Susan,
Just wondered how far into the programme did you find the appetite suppression kicks in?
thanks
tt
Dusty - 11 Sep 2006 02:53 GMT >><snip> >> Do you really have to be that low calorie for it to work? to be honest > that's not much food > thanks for the help It's enough if you're five feet tall with a tiny frame and sedentary.
Read the books.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590770021/novelspot-20/102-4337509-24329 19?%5Fencoding=UTF8&camp=1789&link%5Fcode=xm2
Keep a food diary plus a carb/calorie record of your intake for free on http://www.fitday.com
FRED - 11 Sep 2006 04:35 GMT >>><snip> >>> Do you really have to be that low calorie for it to work? to be honest [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Keep a food diary plus a carb/calorie record of your intake for free on > http://www.fitday.com OK, I'm reading the book and I have a fitday account, thanks for the help
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jackiepatti@gmail.com - 12 Sep 2006 02:47 GMT > Do you really have to be that low calorie for it to work? to be honest > that's not much food > thanks for the help No, you don't. Sometimes at the end of things, when you've only got maybe 20 more pounds to lose, you have to make a decision between cutting calories or redefining your goal. But when you have a lot to lose, you'll lose lots just sticking to a decent carb limit.
And as an added bonus, since your weight indicates you likely have an insulin problem, low-carbing will help you forestall and even possibly prevent becoming frankly diabetic.
This is what will happen... the first week or two on low-carb, you'll be ravenous. Because your body is used to the carbs as fuel and has to switch over to a glucagon-mediated biochemistry, and meanwhile, you're just starving. This is what Atkins calls "induction" - it's like a withdrawal thing. My advice is to just pigout all you want, as long as you stick to the carb levels. If it makes you "feel better" to eat a half pound of bacon, go for it. You're not really trying to lose fat in this phase, just get your body switched over.
Because you'll burn up your glycogen stores and the water it's dissolved in, you'll lose weight during induction. Doesn't matter, really, except it gives you a bit of a psychological boost. Cause... I doubt anyone really loses fat on induction, seems to me most people overeat like crazy while going through it.
When your biochemistry switches over, you'll lose the cravings... and wind up with a normal appetite. I think it usually turns out that people who overeat for "psychological reasons" wind up finding themselves miraculously cured of their psychological issues once on low-carb. ;)
Then you go into the real fat-burning phase of things, at whatever level of carbs works well for you depending on what plan you're on. Doesn't usually need to be as low as induction though.
You'll probably lose at least 100 lbs or more before having to even think about calories. Low-carb works faster for weight loss the fatter you are to begin with. For most people, it doesn't get tough until towards the end.
When you get to the end, you may have to think about limiting calories or increasing exercise. But... by then, you'll feel completly differently than you do now, so let that future you think about that and just get the current you started.
Brigid Nelson - 10 Sep 2006 19:31 GMT > x-no-archive; yes > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > good for you in the short term, either. I've found that I sleep much > better on low carb, and you might, too. You may also want to look into the supplement 5-HTP, some people find it helpful for insomnia and anxiety. It may also be useful if you're using food for comfort. Google it.
brigid
Jbuch - 10 Sep 2006 02:15 GMT > I'm just not sure I can do this, but I must do something, > I'm over 350 lb I'm eating for comfort non stop and I don't seem able to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > cheers You have to really want to make it work.
When I quit smoking, it was first taking enough time to actually really decide that I wanted to quit, and was determined to do what I had to in order to quit.
When I got to that point, I needed to set the circumstances in which I would really do it. I decided that I would take the next "quit smoking class", which the company had been offering periodically.
Finally, after four months, they scheduled the next (and LAST) "quit smoking class".
When the ten week class was over, there were only 3 out of 12 who were non-amokers at that time. At the end of a year, there was only one non-smoker out of the class -- ME ! !
That was almost 20 years ago.
You sound like you have a lot going on, besides eating.
One step at a time, stumble once in a while, but pick up and keep on trying again. That is perhaps the best advice. The keep going advice, I mean.
Real important -- after the real decision and the start --- KEEP GOING.
Jim
 Signature 1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book 2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book 3) Don't Diet Without Supplemental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins book 4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)
Lá~ká~ Wáná - 10 Sep 2006 02:37 GMT > I'm just not sure I can do this, but I must do something, > I'm over 350 lb I'm eating for comfort non stop and I don't seem able to > stop, my wife's had major surgery for cancer and is basically > incapacitated its very hard to get control over domestic duties and > working 6 days a week, I'm drinking far too much but it helps me sleep. Please try something other than alcohol to help you sleep. Your Dr. can prescribe something that wont harm your liver and make you even more obese.
> sorry I'm just dribbling on I've never been good at writing, but if anyone > has any advice or experience I could use a hand Low-carbing does work but no diet is "easy." After losing 50 lbs low-carbing, I now have to count calories like any other dieter.
LW Re-Start - 7/5/06 - 170lbs Today - 153 lbs Goal - 130 lbs Height: 5'6" Female. Age: 61 Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. ===================================
Bill Eitner - 10 Sep 2006 18:52 GMT > I'm just not sure I can do this, but I must do something, > I'm over 350 lb I'm eating for comfort non stop and I don't seem able to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sorry I'm just dribbling on I've never been good at writing, but if anyone > has any advice or experience I could use a hand Your story sounds something like mine did.
I was overseeing my elderly fathers affairs since he had a serious stroke in 1997. I got up over 400 pounds eating and drinking alcoholic beverages. I'm an electronics technician specializing in hobby radio (citizens band, amateur radio, short wave listening, radio scanners) with a secondary emphasis on audio and consumer electronics devices. I started freelancing for a local hobby radio shop and working out of my fathers house. The work was physically easy and there were many days where I doubt that I even approached 1000 steps. In other words, it was the perfect environment for producing a raging drunken fat a.s.
I started becoming concerned about it, but not all that seriously. Over a period of a few years I got down to between 380 and 400, but nothing about me had really changed. I was eating a little less but drinking more. It got to where every single day I was putting away 2-3 liters of red wine and/or a bottle of brandy. For me, rock bottom came when I found myself using brandy as a sleep aid. Drink half a bottle, sleep for 3-4 hours, wake up, drink the other half, fall asleep for 3-4 more hours. Drinking to sleep and drinking early in the day are totally unacceptable practices to all except those with drinking problems. Deep down I knew that.
Finally, one day, I decided to look into online alcohol and drug programs. I'm not religious, and that keeps me from really believing in 12- step programs like AA. Fortunately, I found a couple of good programs online that don't use the 12-step model. One is for those who feel that complete abstinence is necessary (RR or Rational Recovery), and the other teaches moderation (MM or Moderation Management). I chose MM believing that I should try moderating first before accepting total abstinence. It worked and I was able to control my drinking. That was the first step for me. I didn't try to change my way of eating at the same time. And that's my recommendation to you. Get your drinking under control first. The first thing that goes when most people drink more than modestly is control over what they eat.
When you've managed to get good control over your drinking, then take the next step and look at changing your way of eating. I did that roughly 13 months ago. I started journaling (recording what I eat), low carbing, and walking regularly. I started right at 400 pounds and am currently a bit over 240. Low carb was a great way to start. It took away the physical hunger and food cravings. I believe that it also helped suppress cravings for alcohol as well as providing for a sense of objectivity, well-being, and level-headed behavior. In short, in my case, it was something of a minor miracle.
Over the time that I've been dieting I've read every diet book I could get my hands on and tried the three major ways of eating (low carb, low fat, moderate carb). I discovered that at this stage of the game moderate carb ("good carbs good fats") works as well for me as low carb did to begin with. I'd call that basically the third step in my personal journey, and it's where I am now. I still have some more fat to lose and muscle to build back up, but I'm basically a different person compared to who I was a year and a half ago.
It will work, really. --
tunderbar@hotmail.com - 21 Sep 2006 15:02 GMT > I'm just not sure I can do this, but I must do something, > I'm over 350 lb I'm eating for comfort non stop and I don't seem able to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Great Speed, Great Retention > 1 GB/Day for only $8.95 Here is some simple advice. Aim for four to six ounces of meat per full meal. For a 3/4 inch steak or pork chop, that is about the size of the palm of your hand or the size of a large deck of cards. The rest of the meal should be real produce. Carrots, peas, salad, etc.
Eat 5 times a day.
Breakfast, if you are not used to it, get used to it. Lunch. Snack - 1 oz of meat, some fresh veggies supper snack - around 9:00 or when you feel a bit peckish
Drink water. Avoid coffee and flavoured drinks.
Foods to avoid:
Soda Pop Bread Potatoes (for now) Pasta Sugar Cake
You get the idea. No refined carbs. No highly processed junk.
Don't be afraid of fats as long as they are non-hydrogenated. Real butter, no margarine. Real lard, no shortening.
Real foods. They are loaded with vitamins and minerals.
You will lose weight and you will feel better almost immediately.
And don't be afraid to eat until you are full. (I don't mean stuffed to the gills, just satiated) This way of eating will fill you up and you will not go hungry. That is part of why it works so well.
TC
Dusty - 21 Sep 2006 16:24 GMT >>I'm just not sure I can do this, but I must do something, >>I'm over 350 lb I'm eating for comfort I don't agree with everything here. I don't agree with avoiding coffee and flavored drinks--unless they are SHOWN to be responsible for a lack of weight loss. At 350 lbs, you're likely to lose quite a lot with minimal sense of deprivation as long as you stay away from carbs:
sugar, starches (including pasta, bread, potatoes, flour, etc) and sugary drinks.
> Drink water. Avoid coffee and flavoured drinks. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Sugar > Cake You mention peas and carrots. I avoid those--carrots are pretty high in sugar; and peas are very starchy.
A cup of raw carrots is 11.69 grams of carbs (minus 3.4 fiber) 5.78 of those grams are sugar. (12.82-4.3 cooked)
A cup of cooked peas is 22.82 grams (minus 8.8 fiber). On Atkins, either of these veggies alone is half a days carbs during induction. Very bad choices. Not smart. Better to go with lower glycemic veggies.
(I was about to refer to a site but it has onions on an unlimited list, so I know that's not correct...
Get an Atkins book and read it. (One by Dr. Atkins)
Count your carbs. The first couple weeks, limit your carbs to 20 grams. You will lose a huge amount of water weight as your body releases glycogen. It helps to keep track of carbs on Fitday.com. (You don't have to make your diary public!) You will also have to manually subtract the fiber grams, since fitday does not do that for you.
Here's a basic list:
More or less unlimted quantities of Meats, Poultry, Seafood and Eggs, cheese, butter, fats (aim for healthy ones rather than saturated fats but they DO help you keep satisfied and feel less deprived. Cheese has some carb, so do eggs.
salad veggies: Sprouts, mushrooms, arugula, endive, parsley, bok choy, escarole, peppers, celery, fennel, chicory, radicchio, radishes, lettuces such as iceberg, romaine, Boston, Bibb and green leaf, cucumbers, sorrel and chives.
(Just think of little sandwiches you can make of roast beef rolled up in lettuce leaves, or cream cheese on cucumber slies, and you have a glimmer of the possibilities here.
Secondary list: (limited quantities) artichokes Eggplant Tomato Collard Greens Celery Spinach Leeks Scallions Pumpkin Broccoli Cabbage Turnips Rhubarb String Beans Wax Beans Brussel Sprouts Bamboo Shoots Kale Sauerkraut Chard Cauliflower Kohlrabi Beet Greens Zucchini Summer Squash Water Chestnuts Spaghetti Squash
Roger Zoul - 23 Sep 2006 21:44 GMT Good advice, Dusty.
I will point out one thing: One doesn't even need to worry about sat fats on 20g or less of carbs a day (even after induction on restricted carbs, one need not worry). If one feels better limiting sat fats, that's fine, though.
:: tunderbar@hotmail.com wrote: ::: FRED wrote: [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] :: Cauliflower Kohlrabi Beet Greens Zucchini :: Summer Squash Water Chestnuts Spaghetti Squash Louie - 22 Sep 2006 13:50 GMT >I'm just not sure I can do this, but I must do something, >I'm over 350 lb I'm eating for comfort non stop and I don't seem able to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >cheers Hi Fred -
I don't drink much at all since it affects my asthma (I'm diagnosed as a moderate to severe asthmatic) so there's not I can say about the drinking part. Low carbing is something I can address, though.
I'm restarting Atkins tomorrow (Sat 9/23) after being off it for almost exactly a year. Originally my weight was around 221 which dropped to 192. I ran into a couple of life problems and stopped the diet at that time. My weight today is at 202. I've noticed at least in my case that there are two parts to losing weight. The obvious part is the program itself, the other part is dealing with the sense of self doubt concerning my ability to focus & follow through to the goal. Without any doubt at all, Atkins absolutely works and works quite well. So I'm thinking if you can also work out the stress issues you'll be fine, because isn't that's what's really the difficulty?
Good luck and let me/us know how you're doing.
Louie
Boston, MA USA
Hollywood - 24 Sep 2006 19:52 GMT Hi Louie and Fred,
Louie, Great Post. Lemme take it a bit farther.
Fred, I would like to share with you, and anyone else on the book, a couple of the techniques I have developed to maintain focus and goals. I read a book while doing my masters degree (the interssection of business strategy, economics, and business psychology) that really changed how I look at things, called Committment by Professor Pankaj Ghemawat. (http://tinyurl.com/p5n8q) The book is about business strategy and case examples that Dr. Ghemawat found in business to support his theory. The secret of long term success is being fully commited to your goals while remaining flexible enough to redefine them as you go along.
So, without going too deep into Dr. Ghemawat's book (because it's a business book, not about people, really), the central thing is you have to decide what you want. Then you have to decide how to get there. That will entail some things that you will focus on and some things that you won't do at all. In adopting Low Carb, you have some idea about your goals. It may be as vague as I would like to lose some weight. You have some idea of the strategy (Atkins, Protein Power, whatever). You may know a little bit of what that entails doing (eat more fat and protein) and what it entails doing without (sugar, starch, bread, pasta, corn, etc).
In line with Ghemawat, I think the keys are like this: 1- Firm up your goals. Decide exactly what they are, how you are going to measure progress, why you want them. I have a list of ten reasons why I am doing LC. They range from better clothes and looking better to dodging diabetes and lowering my cholesterol. It's important to know the why as much as the what. My goals are a range of weight numbers, a range of measurement numbers, a ceiling body fat % #, and target total, LDL, HDL and Triglyceride ranges. The measurement of progress on those are pretty easy.
2- Make the commitment to your strategy. If this is your first go with LC, buy one of the books (Atkins, Protein Power Life Plan, whatever) and really work the plan. You might get a few out of the library and compare and contrast, but at their core, they are not terribly different. But make sure that you know what you are getting into, that you know why you are getting into it and that you can actually work the program. That probably means adding exercise. It also probably means cutting some of the alcohol. The benefits from the future have to be worth what you are commiting to. That's how it works in corporate america and that's how it needs to work for you.
3- Be extremely clear on the things you are going to do and aren't. For an example with this, I currently work at a company that has a lot of overweight people around. I am going to be clear with my peer group about the commitment to eliminate sugar and starch from my diet (a public commitment is helpful to maintaining your motivation... really). I am NOT going to get evangelical about the diet. I feel that LC is the best way to lose weight and be healthy, but I am not going to approach people. I will let my results speak for themselves and if anyone is curious, I will tell them how I have done it. Some other things I am doing: walking the halls of the building on my breaks (a full lap of the building is 1/2 mile), taking the stairs instead of the elevator and logging my stairs climbed. Trying new LC foods and working to incorporate them into my diet (I have a LOT of trouble with this and probably need cognitive behavioral therapy to fix it, but my HMO is an HMO, so I need to have some good conversations to get it). Some stuff I'm not doing: eating with my peer more than once a week (they eat all kinds of junk which is getting easier to watch with each week), going to meetings that I don't have to (frequently they will turn into cake or cookie fests, or a pizza ordering thing... also easier with passing time, but still, trouble lurks there).
4- Maintain your vigil. I fully believe that carbohydrates, particularly cereal grains and sugar, are addictive. I also fully believe that the first bit of bad carb that I get could be the ramp up back to a full on addiction. If I maintain the rest and stay focused on my goals, it's beatable, but I have eaten absurd amounts of carbs for pretty much my entire life, save about 9 months over the last few years when I haven't been eating them. To paraphrase Chicago, "That's a hard habit to break."
I hope that you pick and plan and have all the success you could want from it. If you create some level of commitment, I am sure it will REALLY work. And I mean it will work a lot.
-Hollywood. optimistic realist.
> >I'm just not sure I can do this, but I must do something, > >I'm over 350 lb I'm eating for comfort non stop and I don't seem able to [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Boston, MA > USA
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