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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / October 2006

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???  on saturated fat????

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catskills@monmouth.com - 26 Oct 2006 00:14 GMT
Well once in a while I talk to people about their lifestyle and eating.
Now today I spoke with a young man who is a hockey player, and we
spoke about of course high carb and low carb.  Now he does a low carb
diet, but mentioned that he keeps his saturated fat low, but his fat
average or high in general.  He mentioned that he tries to aim for
things with less than 13 percent saturated fat and does not care about
the other fat (excluding trans) just assume he does not eat that.   Now
here is where I am a moron and don't know nothing about saturated fat.
First off, will it benefit a low carb person to do this?  Why?  Is
saturated fat bad?  What foods contain alot of saturated fat?   Is
saturated fat bad for you?  HELP?   Thanks Marilyn
Pat in TX - 26 Oct 2006 00:37 GMT
> Well once in a while I talk to people about their lifestyle and eating.
> Now today I spoke with a young man who is a hockey player, and we
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> saturated fat bad?  What foods contain alot of saturated fat?   Is
> saturated fat bad for you?  HELP?   Thanks Marilyn

Google it, Marilyn. go to webmd or one of those sites.
FOB - 26 Oct 2006 00:42 GMT
It's a matter of opinion.  A lot of low carbers only think it is harmful
when eaten with a lot of carbs.  There are studies showing saturated fat
raises cholesterol but none of them were done in combination with a low
intake of carbs.  The fact that low carb diets lower cholesterol for most
people including those who don't worry about saturated fat suggests that the
combination may be the problem, not the saturated fat alone.

| Well once in a while I talk to people about their lifestyle and
|  eating. Now today I spoke with a young man who is a hockey player,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
| do this?  Why?  Is saturated fat bad?  What foods contain alot of
| saturated fat?   Is saturated fat bad for you?  HELP?   Thanks Marilyn
Doug Freyburger - 26 Oct 2006 00:50 GMT
> Well once in a while I talk to people about their lifestyle and eating.
>  Now today I spoke with a young man who is a hockey player, and we
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> here is where I am a moron and don't know nothing about saturated fat.
> First off, will it benefit a low carb person to do this?

For loss, maybe.  For health, maybe.

> Why?

There have been studies that compare percentages of saturated
versus unsaturated fats in low carb dieters and the few studies
that exist suggest that the loss rate can be lower with softer fat
sources.  Doesn't seem to be a big effect.

For health, there's the fact that certain polyunsaturated fats are
essential but saturated fats aren't - The human body can make its
own saturated fat and can convert one typ to another.  Deal is,
once you have enough of the essential ones is more better?
Since the more part is just calories, whatever.

> Is saturated fat bad?

Not for low carbers.  It's only bad when combined with a high carb
diet.

> What foods contain alot of saturated fat?

Saturated fat is the solid stuff.  If it pours it is low in saturated.
If
it is all the way to waxy it is high in saturates.  So figure soft
butter has a fair amount, stiff lard has more.

How would you trade for less saturated and more saturated fat?
Grill the meat and drain off the drippings, then replace with nut
oil or olive oil.  Is it worth doing?  Not for almost any low carber.
catskills@monmouth.com - 26 Oct 2006 08:22 GMT
thanks all, and I know pat do the work!!!  But I got doug to help me
out!! Thanks again !

> > Well once in a while I talk to people about their lifestyle and eating.
> >  Now today I spoke with a young man who is a hockey player, and we
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> Grill the meat and drain off the drippings, then replace with nut
> oil or olive oil.  Is it worth doing?  Not for almost any low carber.
Doug Freyburger - 26 Oct 2006 18:53 GMT
> > Is saturated fat bad?
>
> Not for low carbers.  It's only bad when combined with a high carb
> diet.

One thing that Dr Atkins wrote in his books is that about 80% of
folks see improved cholesterol 6 months in (1993/1999 editions)
and over 50% see it 2 months in.  That plus most see short term
increases very early on so testing before 8 weeks isn't encouraged.

That still leaves that 20% who don't see improved cholesterol
numbers.  Since cholesterol is linked with saturated fat in folks
on high carb diets i's worth trying to lower saturated fat if you're
in that 20% and see if it helps.  But the time to try that is after
6 full months.

> How would you trade for less saturated and more saturated fat?
> Grill the meat and drain off the drippings, then replace with nut
> oil or olive oil.  Is it worth doing?  Not for almost any low carber.

On the other hand there's almost no downside to doing it.
Hannah Gruen - 27 Oct 2006 08:43 GMT
"Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> There have been studies that compare percentages of saturated
> versus unsaturated fats in low carb dieters and the few studies
> that exist suggest that the loss rate can be lower with softer fat
> sources.  Doesn't seem to be a big effect.

Doug, Doug, Doug....

You've got a bunch of stuff wrong in this post! Yikes!

First, the monosaturated and polyunsatured fats are the "soft" ones... it's
the saturated ones that tend to be "hard" at room temperature.

And it's the "soft" fats, versus the "hard" fats, that seem to favor a
faster rate of weight loss. As you say, the difference is not large, but it
is significant. There may be an already-understood reason for this. A study
or three in the past have shown that insulin activity is depressed slightly
by saturated fats, compared to mono- or unsaturated fats, in some cases
anyhow. Again, the results have been questioned and the effect, if it
exists, is not large. But it may account for the differences in rate of
weight loss. Or not. More study is probably needed, but I'm not holding my
breath.

> For health, there's the fact that certain polyunsaturated fats are
> essential but saturated fats aren't - The human body can make its
> own saturated fat and can convert one typ to another.  Deal is,
> once you have enough of the essential ones is more better?
> Since the more part is just calories, whatever.

True - we really don't need large amounts of fat, but we do need small
amounts of the essential fatty acids (EFAs). Most unsaturated and
monosaturated oils commonly used in Western diets contain little or none of
these EFAs anyhow. The better ways to get them are from things like nuts,
seeds, leafy dark green veggies, and cold water fish.

>> Is saturated fat bad?
>
> Not for low carbers.  It's only bad when combined with a high carb
> diet.

I think this is the consensus here, but it should probably be acknowledged
that there is still a lot of disagreement on this topic.

>> What foods contain alot of saturated fat?
>
> Saturated fat is the solid stuff.  If it pours it is low in saturated.
> If
> it is all the way to waxy it is high in saturates.  So figure soft
> butter has a fair amount, stiff lard has more.

Yikes! Butter actually contains a *significantly* higher ratio of saturated
fat to mono/unsaturated fat than does lard, Doug! Some commercial lard may
be partially hydrogenated, to make it stable on the shelf without
refrigeration, but basic lard actually contains predominantly monosaturated
fat, with less saturated and a bit of polyunsaturated fatty acids. Check
USDA listings.

There is a LOT of misunderstanding/misinformation about the types of fatty
acids present in different types of foods. Most people seem to know that
plants don't contain saturated fatty acids - with the exception of a few
tropical plants, such as palm etc. However, most people believe that fat
from animals is mostly or all saturated - and that is far from the truth.
Actually, dairy fats tend to be higher in saturates than most meats and
poultry and fish. It is instructive to go to the USDA listings and see the
fatty acid breakdowns for the various meats and so on.

In other words, if you are trying to cut back on saturated fats, cutting
back on butter, cheese and other high fat dairy might make sense. Replace
with olive oil, etc. However, it is not clear whether there really is much
of a health advantage in doing this, especially on a LC diet. Cutting back
on calories, up to a point, by cutting back on high fat foods, may actually
give more of a health benefit than playing with saturated fatty acid ratios.

HG

> How would you trade for less saturated and more saturated fat?
> Grill the meat and drain off the drippings, then replace with nut
> oil or olive oil.  Is it worth doing?  Not for almost any low carber.
Roger Zoul - 26 Oct 2006 12:55 GMT
Go here: http://www.mercola.com/

and type saturated fat in the Google search box at the tope of the page.

I personally don't think sat fat is bad unless combined with excessive carb
consumption.  However, one still needs to be concerned about eating too much
fat because that generally means too many calories which translates to
getting fat (in general).  That doesn't mean that fat makes you fat, though.
Too many calories (= too much food) will make you fat.  Carbs make you
hungier, fat and protein don't.

Also keep in mind that a lot of people today stiill think meat fat is bad
(the main source of sat fat) and hence avoid it like the plague.  But if
they consume a high carb diet, they probably should avoid it.  Keep in mind
though that a lot of the studies done in the past which had high carb and
fat in the diet didn't make the distinction between sat fats and transfats.
And transfats have been in our diets for many years now, which all of the
refined/processed foods we eat.  The problem really could be teh man-made
transfats moreso than the sat fats. Man has been messing with the food
supply and there is no good way to be sure that some of this hasn't been
harmful. More to the point, the feeding of livestock with grains has
resulted in increased fat in livestock.  That also means their meat has more
sat fat than it would has livestock been allowed to grass, as intended by
nature.

:: Well once in a while I talk to people about their lifestyle and
:: eating. Now today I spoke with a young man who is a hockey player,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
:: alot of saturated fat?   Is saturated fat bad for you?  HELP?
:: Thanks Marilyn
Hollywood - 26 Oct 2006 13:48 GMT
Zoulie,

Sometimes you are so good, you obviate the need to post.

-Hollywood

> Go here: http://www.mercola.com/
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> :: alot of saturated fat?   Is saturated fat bad for you?  HELP?
> :: Thanks Marilyn
Roger Zoul - 26 Oct 2006 14:08 GMT
Hollywood,
Only Mu refers to me as Zoulie! You're not Mu are you? :)
Thanks for the kind comment.

:: Zoulie,
::
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
::::: bad?  What foods contain alot of saturated fat?   Is saturated
::::: fat bad for you?  HELP? Thanks Marilyn
Noway2 - 26 Oct 2006 23:34 GMT
> Hollywood,
> Only Mu refers to me as Zoulie! You're not Mu are you? :)
> Thanks for the kind comment.

What about Dr. Peter Venkman?
Mu - 27 Oct 2006 06:09 GMT
>Hollywood,
>Only Mu refers to me as Zoulie! You're not Mu are you? :)
>Thanks for the kind comment.

Hang tight, Zoulie, next you can buddy wuddy up with the the corner
drooler. I must admit, you are Christian in terms of who you allow to
pay homage to you. Everyone is equal regardless of the amount of snot
hanging out of their noses.
Mu - 27 Oct 2006 06:06 GMT
>Also keep in mind that a lot of people today stiill think meat fat is bad
>(the main source of sat fat) and hence avoid it like the plague.  But if
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>refined/processed foods we eat.  The problem really could be teh man-made
>transfats moreso than the sat fats.

Also keep in mind that Zoulie here is spouting Zoulisms as if fact.
Let's see. Chung claims that sat fat from any source is an unhealthy
eating choice. He has quoted Mucho studies that support that opinion.
Zoulie quotes himself and an occasional study of which he has yet, nor
will ever, support with any evidence that he is capable to
scientifically assess. Thaat don't stop him, wax on, wax on, never wax
off.

Chung is a scientist, a cardiologist; Zoulie is, well, an ex obese
person with waay to much time on his hands.

It's entertaining to have obsessives like Zoulie sit on Usenet groups
and wax on about things that eminate from their self-proclaimed
thrones of knowledge. It's inline with the Days Of Our Lives, fun fun
but practically useless.

Let's see, hmmmmmmmm, who am I going to put the health of my life
with?
FOB - 27 Oct 2006 17:37 GMT
Zoulism is the way to health and enlightenment.  It is not influenced by
funding from processed food pushers like the research you quote.  Chung is a
cuckoonut.

| Also keep in mind that Zoulie here is spouting Zoulisms as if fact.
| Let's see. Chung claims that sat fat from any source is an unhealthy
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
| Let's see, hmmmmmmmm, who am I going to put the health of my life
| with?
Mu - 28 Oct 2006 09:02 GMT
>Zoulism is the way to health and enlightenment.  It is not influenced by
>funding from processed food pushers like the research you quote.  Chung is a
>cuckoonut.

Two pounds a day of cockoonut is better than one ounce of Zoulisms.
Jbuch - 26 Oct 2006 16:54 GMT
> Well once in a while I talk to people about their lifestyle and eating.
>  Now today I spoke with a young man who is a hockey player, and we
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> saturated fat bad?  What foods contain alot of saturated fat?   Is
> saturated fat bad for you?  HELP?   Thanks Marilyn

Do You Have a Fatty Brain?

If it is a healthy brain, it is a fatty brain.
-------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.fi.edu/brain/fats.htm
From the Franklin Institute Science Museum.......

Fats Build Your Brain
       

No offense, but you have a fat head! About two-thirds of your brain is
composed of fats. But not just any kind.

Your brain cells require very specialized fats – the same ones that
built the brains of your prehistoric ancestors and enabled them to learn
and evolve at such a fast rate. These same fats are even now being
incorporated into the very structure of your brain.

Membranes – the Working Surface of Your Brain is Made from Fatty Acids
       

The membranes of neurons – the specialized brain cells that communicate
with each other – are composed of a thin double-layer of fatty acid
molecules. Fatty acids are what dietary fats are composed of. When you
digest the fat in your food, it is broken down into fatty acid molecules
of various lengths. Your brain then uses these for raw materials to
assemble the special types of fat it incorporates into its cell membranes.
        

Passing through a cell's membrane into its cell's interior are oxygen,
glucose (blood sugar), and the micronutrients the cell needs to
function. Metabolic waste products must exit, so the cell won't be
impaired by its own pollution.

Protective Myelin is 70% Fat
       

Myelin, the protective sheath that covers communicating neurons, is
composed of 30% protein and 70% fat. One of the most common fatty acids
in myelin is oleic acid, which is also the most abundant fatty acid in
human milk and in our diet.

Monosaturated oleic acid is the main component of olive oil as well as
the oils from almonds, pecans, macadamias, peanuts, and avocados.

------------------- More on the link above --------------------------

Signature

1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplemental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

Hollywood - 26 Oct 2006 20:43 GMT
The Drs. Eades have a whole chapter on the Brain where they start with
a 60% number for percent of your brain that is fat. I think the section
is called "Hey Fathead." The rest of the chapter details their
recommendations for proper brain feeding and exercise. IIRC the plan
for proper feeding was "the Protein Power Life Plan" while exercise is
new learning. Worth thinking about. Thanks for the post.

> Do You Have a Fatty Brain?
>
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> book
> 4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)
 
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