Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / November 2006
Oxidized cholesterol?
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Bob in CT - 12 Nov 2006 18:39 GMT In Protein Power, they (apparently -- the wife is reading this book, and I've not yet been able to) state that it is bad to cook eggs using techniques where the yolks break and are exposed to possible oxidation. How true do people think this statement is? Are there other studies that support this assertion? I ask because requiring the yolk to be whole severely limits the amount of techniques used to cook eggs (no frittatas, omelettes, scrambled eggs, etc.). No frittatas is particularly a bummer, as these are easy to make and keep well. They make a great after-exercise meal, too.
 Signature Bob in CT
Jbuch - 12 Nov 2006 21:48 GMT > In Protein Power, they (apparently -- the wife is reading this book, > and I've not yet been able to) state that it is bad to cook eggs using [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > particularly a bummer, as these are easy to make and keep well. They > make a great after-exercise meal, too. If you look for oxidized cholesterol, a good place is POWDERED EGGS (whole eggs, including the yolk... just powdered egg whites have virtually no cholesterol so there isn't a whole lot of oxidized cholesterol).
In the classic, now evidently discredited, studies of feeding rabbits cholesterol to watch how the arteries clog up ....... the source of cholesterol was powdered eggs. Later, it was determined that this source of cholesterol is actually a source of oxidized cholesterol which is otherwise pretty rare in lightly processed or raw foods.
After feeding rabbits oxidized cholesterol - regular cholesterol is not in the normal diet of a rabbit - there was arterial deposits and damage. So, feeding (Oxidized) cholesterol to an animal which naturally does not include cholesterol in the diet -- well it is a bad thing.
You can look this up in your "The Cholesterol Myths" book, I believe, or maybe it is in "Eat Fat, Lose Fat" by Dr. Mary Enig... It is published in a couple of places. The later editions of Eads books probably have it.
Did you GOOGLE it?
If you heat the eggs at a high enough temperature and long enough to cook them and dry them to powder, then maybe you should stop doing that. But normal cooking is not likely to lead to OXIDIZED cholesterol.
I'd GOOGLE it, if I were you.
Jim
 Signature 1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book 2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book 3) Don't Diet Without Supplemental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins book 4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)
Bob in CT - 30 Nov 2006 21:49 GMT >> In Protein Power, they (apparently -- the wife is reading this book, >> and I've not yet been able to) state that it is bad to cook eggs [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > maybe it is in "Eat Fat, Lose Fat" by Dr. Mary Enig... It is published > in a couple of places. The later editions of Eads books probably have it. Thanks.
> Did you GOOGLE it? I did google it, but there's a huge amount of info related to oxidized cholesterol in blood. We all know what's in blood does not necessarily correlate with what you eat. Hmmm....perhaps I shouldn't have used "oxidized cholesterol" and used "oxidized cholesterol food" or something like that.
> If you heat the eggs at a high enough temperature and long enough to > cook them and dry them to powder, then maybe you should stop doing that. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jim
 Signature Bob in CT
Jbuch - 12 Nov 2006 22:15 GMT > In Protein Power, they (apparently -- the wife is reading this book, > and I've not yet been able to) state that it is bad to cook eggs using [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > particularly a bummer, as these are easy to make and keep well. They > make a great after-exercise meal, too. My book on backpacking foods , "Trail Food" 2nd Ed. by Alan S Kesselheim, tells how to make your own dried eggs.
1)Beat, add spices if desired, pour over dehydrator trays. 2)Dry at 140-155F for 12 to 20 hours. 3)Check for doneness - egggs should be crumbly and dry.
So, if your recipe for egg dishes involves cooking for 12 to 20 hours, you might want to eliminate this dish from your diet. I think egg recipes involving cooking for hours at 140F - 155F are rare.
Commercial dried egg production would likely be oriented to the least time, and the highest temperature possible to keep the production costs down and yet not produce an obvious "off" taste in the resulting powder. In other words, the powdered eggs of the rabbit and mouse animal studies was probably more harshly produced than the above recipe for home processed dehydrated eggs.
Keep your eggs slightly moist and the concern for OXIDIZED cholesterol most likely evaporates. If the egg moisture completely evaporates, you probably have more oxidized cholesterol.
Anyway, you know that there is an "Ani-Egg" bunch of folks who try, whenever possible, to label eggs as unhealthy.
If there were a real problem with ordinary cooked eggs, how could the "Anti-Egg" groups have possibly missed this negative news, and not be shouting it all over the world and the internet?
 Signature 1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book 2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book 3) Don't Diet Without Supplemental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins book 4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)
Pat in TX - 13 Nov 2006 00:55 GMT <snip>>
> Anyway, you know that there is an "Ani-Egg" bunch of folks who try, > whenever possible, to label eggs as unhealthy. > > If there were a real problem with ordinary cooked eggs, how could the > "Anti-Egg" groups have possibly missed this negative news, and not be > shouting it all over the world and the internet? This reminded me of a "eat all you want and take our pill and the pounds will melt off while you sleep" commercial. The announcer says, "In order to make sure the widest possible number of people know about this revolutionary product, we are giving a 30 day trial supply for FREE when you order a 6 months' supply." or something similar. I wonder if the gullible wouldn't stop for a second and say, "If it is so great, how come it isn't all over the news?"
Pat in TX
Jbuch - 13 Nov 2006 13:27 GMT > <snip>> > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Pat in TX It seems as if in this health and nutrition business there are two narly irresistable stances.
1) To proclaim the wonders and near magic and safety of something (Positive impact leader)
2) To denounce as many things as possible (Negative impact leadership)
"Let's scare people about eggs, again".
They scared somebody. So, "Job well done, and we acknoowledge their excellence".
Where is common sense these days?
 Signature 1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book 2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book 3) Don't Diet Without Supplemental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins book 4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)
Hollywood - 13 Nov 2006 19:13 GMT The exact quote is actually from the Protein Power Life Plan (the plan I follow) book on page 126. It is in the chapter titled "Antioxidant Use and Abuse". In a section described as, "steps you can take to increase and maintain your stores of (glutathione)," one finds the following quote under the tip "avoid eating lipid peroxides and cholesterol peroxides":
"Where do we get lipid peroxides in the diet? All kinds of places, some obvious, some not so obvious. One common source is scrambled eggs. Egg yolks contain a large amount of cholesterol that is easily oxidized when subjected to heat and air. When we scramble eggs we break the yolks and expose the cholesterol within to both heat and air, producing a slurry of cholesterol peroxides. Although for Hedonists and Dilettantes (the two less restrictive, in terms of food choice not macronutrient intake, versions of the PPLP diet plan) the occasional omelet will do little harm, we recommend that most of the time you adopt a Purist (the most restrictive version of PPLP's diet plan) approach and eat your eggs poached, boiled or fried in such a way that the yolks remain intact, protecting their cholesterol contents from peroxidation." They go on to rail against powdered eggs and commercial baked goods for the rest of the paragraph.
I think the powdered egg issue has been discussed already, and commercial baked goods they don't like for the powdered eggs and the transfats. They wrote PPLP in 2000.
Under this stricture, they are NOT anti-egg or anti-dietary cholesterol. They are anti-scrambled egg. As I do the diet, I eat most of my eggs hard boiled, but will have hard fried or omlettes on the weekends. I don't eat a lot of eggs, so I don't worry about it. If I were eating more eggs (I burned myself out on scrambled style eggs during my first rodeo with LC), and had to have fritata or omlette, I might look into supplementing something like two eggs with two egg whites to make something like a 3 egg omlette.
In Protein Power, they were against scrambled eggs because of the large amounts of arachidoic acid (SP?) that they believed, at the time, caused inflammation and distress. They have since reversed their stand on this for most of the population. If you are sensitive to AA, well, you're sensitive to AA.
Last thing, as we are fond of saying around here, it's your science experiment. If you want the eggs, eat the eggs and scramble them till the cows come home. As I said, I read this, I live this, and I have eggs that have been scrambled as part of my diet. Not all the time, but often enough.
> In Protein Power, they (apparently -- the wife is reading this book, and > I've not yet been able to) state that it is bad to cook eggs using [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > as these are easy to make and keep well. They make a great after-exercise > meal, too.
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