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Oxidized cholesterol?

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Bob in CT - 12 Nov 2006 18:39 GMT
In Protein Power, they (apparently -- the wife is reading this book, and  
I've not yet been able to) state that it is bad to cook eggs using  
techniques where the yolks break and are exposed to possible oxidation.  
How true do people think this statement is?  Are there other studies that  
support this assertion?  I ask because requiring the yolk to be whole  
severely limits the amount of techniques used to cook eggs (no frittatas,  
omelettes, scrambled eggs, etc.).  No frittatas is particularly a bummer,  
as these are easy to make and keep well.  They make a great after-exercise  
meal, too.

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Bob in CT

Jbuch - 12 Nov 2006 21:48 GMT
> In Protein Power, they (apparently -- the wife is reading this book,
> and  I've not yet been able to) state that it is bad to cook eggs using  
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> particularly a bummer,  as these are easy to make and keep well.  They
> make a great after-exercise  meal, too.

If you look for oxidized cholesterol, a good place is POWDERED EGGS
(whole eggs, including the yolk... just powdered egg whites have
virtually no cholesterol so there isn't a whole lot of oxidized
cholesterol).

In the classic, now evidently discredited, studies of feeding rabbits
cholesterol to watch how the arteries clog up ....... the source of
cholesterol was powdered eggs.  Later, it was determined that this
source of cholesterol is actually a source of oxidized cholesterol which
is otherwise pretty rare in lightly processed or raw foods.

After feeding rabbits oxidized cholesterol - regular cholesterol is not
in the normal diet of a rabbit - there was arterial deposits and damage.
So, feeding (Oxidized) cholesterol to an animal which naturally does not
include cholesterol in the diet -- well it is a bad thing.

You can look this up in your "The Cholesterol Myths" book, I believe, or
maybe it is in "Eat Fat, Lose Fat" by Dr. Mary Enig... It is published
in a couple of places. The later editions of Eads books probably have it.

Did you GOOGLE it?

If you heat the eggs at a high enough temperature and long enough to
cook them and dry them to powder, then maybe you should stop doing that.
But normal cooking is not likely to lead to OXIDIZED cholesterol.

I'd GOOGLE it, if I were you.

Jim

Signature

1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplemental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

Bob in CT - 30 Nov 2006 21:49 GMT
>> In Protein Power, they (apparently -- the wife is reading this book,  
>> and  I've not yet been able to) state that it is bad to cook eggs  
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> maybe it is in "Eat Fat, Lose Fat" by Dr. Mary Enig... It is published  
> in a couple of places. The later editions of Eads books probably have it.

Thanks.

> Did you GOOGLE it?

I did google it, but there's a huge amount of info related to oxidized  
cholesterol in blood.  We all know what's in blood does not necessarily  
correlate with what you eat.  Hmmm....perhaps I shouldn't have used  
"oxidized cholesterol" and used "oxidized cholesterol food" or something  
like that.

> If you heat the eggs at a high enough temperature and long enough to  
> cook them and dry them to powder, then maybe you should stop doing that.  
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Jim

Signature

Bob in CT

Jbuch - 12 Nov 2006 22:15 GMT
> In Protein Power, they (apparently -- the wife is reading this book,
> and  I've not yet been able to) state that it is bad to cook eggs using  
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> particularly a bummer,  as these are easy to make and keep well.  They
> make a great after-exercise  meal, too.

My book on backpacking foods , "Trail Food" 2nd Ed. by Alan S
Kesselheim, tells how to make your own dried eggs.

1)Beat, add spices if desired, pour over dehydrator trays.
2)Dry at 140-155F for 12 to 20 hours.
3)Check for doneness - egggs should be crumbly and dry.

So, if your recipe for egg dishes involves cooking for 12 to 20 hours,
you might want to eliminate this dish from your diet. I think egg
recipes involving cooking for hours at 140F - 155F are rare.

Commercial dried egg production would likely be oriented to the least
time, and the highest temperature possible to keep the production costs
down and yet not produce an obvious "off" taste in the resulting powder.
In other words, the powdered eggs of the rabbit and mouse animal studies
was probably more harshly produced than the above recipe for home
processed dehydrated eggs.

Keep your eggs slightly moist and the concern for OXIDIZED cholesterol
most likely evaporates.  If the egg moisture completely evaporates, you
probably have more oxidized cholesterol.

Anyway, you know that there is an "Ani-Egg" bunch of folks who try,
whenever possible, to label eggs as unhealthy.

If there were a real problem with ordinary cooked eggs, how could the
"Anti-Egg" groups have possibly missed this negative news, and not be
shouting it all over the world and the internet?

Signature

1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplemental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

Pat in TX - 13 Nov 2006 00:55 GMT
<snip>>
> Anyway, you know that there is an "Ani-Egg" bunch of folks who try,
> whenever possible, to label eggs as unhealthy.
>
> If there were a real problem with ordinary cooked eggs, how could the
> "Anti-Egg" groups have possibly missed this negative news, and not be
> shouting it all over the world and the internet?

This reminded me of a "eat all you want and take our pill and the pounds
will melt off while you sleep" commercial.  The announcer says, "In order to
make sure the widest possible number of people know about this revolutionary
product, we are giving a 30 day trial supply for FREE when you order a 6
months' supply." or something similar. I wonder if the gullible wouldn't
stop for a second and say, "If it is so great, how come it isn't all over
the news?"

Pat in TX
Jbuch - 13 Nov 2006 13:27 GMT
> <snip>>
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Pat in TX

It seems as if in this health and nutrition business there are two narly
irresistable stances.

1) To proclaim the wonders and near magic and safety of something
(Positive impact leader)

2) To denounce as many things as possible (Negative impact leadership)

"Let's scare people about eggs, again".

They scared somebody. So, "Job well done, and we acknoowledge their
excellence".

Where is common sense these days?

Signature

1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplemental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

Hollywood - 13 Nov 2006 19:13 GMT
The exact quote is actually from the Protein Power Life Plan (the plan
I follow) book on page 126. It is in the chapter titled "Antioxidant
Use and Abuse". In a section described as, "steps you can take to
increase and maintain your stores of (glutathione)," one finds the
following quote under the tip "avoid eating lipid peroxides and
cholesterol peroxides":

"Where do we get lipid peroxides in the diet? All kinds of places, some
obvious, some not so obvious. One common source is scrambled eggs. Egg
yolks contain a large amount of cholesterol that is easily oxidized
when subjected to heat and air. When we scramble eggs we break the
yolks and expose the cholesterol within to both heat and air, producing
a slurry of cholesterol peroxides. Although for Hedonists and
Dilettantes (the two less restrictive, in terms of food choice not
macronutrient intake, versions of the PPLP diet plan) the occasional
omelet will do little harm, we recommend that most of the time you
adopt a Purist (the most restrictive version of PPLP's diet plan)
approach and eat your eggs poached, boiled or fried in such a way that
the yolks remain intact, protecting their cholesterol contents from
peroxidation." They go on to rail against powdered eggs and commercial
baked goods for the rest of the paragraph.

I think the powdered egg issue has been discussed already, and
commercial baked goods they don't like for the powdered eggs and the
transfats. They wrote PPLP in 2000.

Under this stricture, they are NOT anti-egg or anti-dietary
cholesterol. They are anti-scrambled egg. As I do the diet, I eat most
of my eggs hard boiled, but will have hard fried or omlettes on the
weekends. I don't eat a lot of eggs, so I don't worry about it. If I
were eating more eggs (I burned myself out on scrambled style eggs
during my first rodeo with LC), and had to have fritata or omlette, I
might look into supplementing something like two eggs with two egg
whites to make something like a 3 egg omlette.

In Protein Power, they were against scrambled eggs because of the large
amounts of arachidoic acid (SP?) that they believed, at the time,
caused inflammation and distress. They have since reversed their stand
on this for most of the population. If you are sensitive to AA, well,
you're sensitive to AA.

Last thing, as we are fond of saying around here, it's your science
experiment. If you want the eggs, eat the eggs and scramble them till
the cows come home. As I said, I read this, I live this, and I have
eggs that have been scrambled as part of my diet. Not all the time, but
often enough.

> In Protein Power, they (apparently -- the wife is reading this book, and
> I've not yet been able to) state that it is bad to cook eggs using
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> as these are easy to make and keep well.  They make a great after-exercise
> meal, too.
 
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