Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / November 2006
How does it work?!
|
|
Thread rating:  |
pishi - 18 Nov 2006 09:12 GMT I tried a famous low-carb diet for 3 month and didn't loose a pound. How does it really work?!
Jeri - 18 Nov 2006 12:07 GMT > I tried a famous low-carb diet for 3 month and didn't loose a pound. > How does it really work?! Not sure which "famous" diet you tried but most of the ones I can think of have books that explain how it works. Without more information no one can begin to give you advice on why you didn't lose weight.
I can tell you that low carb doesn't mean you can eat as much as you want. No matter what diet you're following, in order to lose weight you have to eat fewer calories than you burn. Low carb makes it easier and more pleasant for most people since fat is more satisfying and filling but you can't pig out on high calorie foods and expect to lose weight no matter how low carb they are.
If you want to post what a typical daily menu was for you then perhaps someone can help you.
 Signature Jeri "Change is inevitable, except from vending machines."
jcderkoenig - 18 Nov 2006 12:35 GMT Try eating less and doing some exercise.
>I tried a famous low-carb diet for 3 month and didn't loose a pound. > How does it really work?! jw - 18 Nov 2006 13:39 GMT It came to pass that on 18 Nov 2006, jcderkoenig scribed thusly to all in alt.support.diet.low-carb the following inspiration:
> Try eating less and doing some exercise. Nah, too simple. ;-)
 Signature jw
“It is always the simple things that change our lives. And these things never happen when you are looking for them to happen. Life will reveal answers at the pace life wishes to do so. You feel like running, but life is on a stroll. This is how God does things.” -- Donald Miller
Cubit - 22 Nov 2006 18:00 GMT How ya been JC?
> Try eating less and doing some exercise. > >>I tried a famous low-carb diet for 3 month and didn't loose a pound. >> How does it really work?! jcderkoenig - 22 Nov 2006 19:12 GMT Great, as always.
And you?
> How ya been JC? > >> Try eating less and doing some exercise. >> >>>I tried a famous low-carb diet for 3 month and didn't loose a pound. >>> How does it really work?! Cubit - 29 Nov 2006 22:13 GMT I'm OK.
> Great, as always. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>>>I tried a famous low-carb diet for 3 month and didn't loose a pound. >>>> How does it really work?! Roger Zoul - 18 Nov 2006 13:33 GMT :: I tried a famous low-carb diet for 3 month and didn't :: loose a pound. How does it really work?! Don't over tighten your belt and/or don't use such a tight grip.
Cheri - 18 Nov 2006 19:02 GMT LOL
-- Cheri
>:: I tried a famous low-carb diet for 3 month and didn't >:: loose a pound. How does it really work?! > >Don't over tighten your belt and/or don't use such a tight grip. coonskin@amestwp.com - 18 Nov 2006 15:22 GMT Using 1 year studies as the time period weight loss for all types of diets was due to eating fewer calories. There is some possible greater energy cost for metabolizing different macrnutrients, but the main reason is eating fewer calories once all is said and done.
Susan - 18 Nov 2006 15:33 GMT > Using 1 year studies as the time period weight loss for all types of > diets was due to eating fewer calories. There is some possible greater > energy cost for metabolizing different macrnutrients, but the main > reason is eating fewer calories once all is said and done. This is absolutely not the case. Studies consistently show that low carb dieters lose more weight while eating more calories than high carb/low fat dieters.
The unexamined reason that the weight loss looks so similar at one year is that the low carb diets call for increased carb levels for maintenance and look more like the higher carb diets at that point.
Further, the low carb dieters lose more fat mass and preserve more lean body mass than the higher carb, low fat dieters.
Susan
coonskin@amestwp.com - 18 Nov 2006 17:11 GMT "The unexamined reason that the weight loss looks so similar at one year is that the low carb diets call for increased carb levels for maintenance and look more like the higher carb diets at that point.
Further, the low carb dieters lose more fat mass and preserve more lean body mass than the higher carb, low fat dieters."
As said, once all is said and done at 1 year weight loss was similar for all diets because of reduced calories, that is how in all diets it works. The details might vary to a degree but it is the calories in the end. Any energy cost for different metabolic pathway engagment is a detail and not an fundimental explanation.
Susan - 18 Nov 2006 18:03 GMT > As said, once all is said and done at 1 year weight loss was similar for > all diets because of reduced calories, that is how in all diets it > works. Weight regulation is hormonal. Different macronutrients have different hormonal effects.
The details might vary to a degree but it is the calories in the
> end. Hormones in the end that determine a) degree of hunger and b) the impact of various types of caloric intake.
Any energy cost for different metabolic pathway engagment is a
> detail and not an fundimental explanation. Different calories matter differently.
Susan
Roger Zoul - 18 Nov 2006 20:04 GMT :: Different calories matter differently. I like that statement!
Susan - 18 Nov 2006 21:14 GMT From another thread:
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/15
Susan
coonskin@amestwp.com - 18 Nov 2006 21:43 GMT "http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/15"
Indeed, thermodynamics,ie. as measured by calories, describes all diet plans. Excessive calorie intake is stored as fat. Reducing calorie intake below daily energy requirements will in time cause fat stores to be used to replace the difference. Some differences in the calorie cost of various metabolic pathways required in digesting various nutrients can affect the energy process as described above. High protein intake is said to require more energy to metabolis by a small amount then carb and fat,ie. it takes more caloric energy to turn proteins into forms usable as energy sources for cells. Once all the calorie arthmetic has been done balancing the various combinations then we arrive at the most basic statement of weight loss - all diets in the end cause weight loss or gain because of the number of calories consumed.
coonskin@amestwp.com - 18 Nov 2006 21:57 GMT "Hormones in the end that determine a) degree of hunger and b) the impact of various types of caloric intake."
Another way of saying that with varying "hunger" levels the calories can vary also, less eat fewer calores, more potential to eat more calories.
Any energy cost for different metabolic pathway engagment is a
> detail and not an fundimental explanation. "Different calories matter differently."
Only in so far as the nutrient source of the calories is concerned. The final number is the sum of how many calories are consumed converting the nutrient into an energy source usable at the cell level. Star with "x" amount of calories in a food, substract the energy to metobolize it which is its energy cost, and how that food adds to the total calorie count is found. However in the end it is the sum in total calories that causes weight gain as excess energy is stored in fat for later use or loss as current energy demands fall short and the stored fat is used to make up the difference. Calorie balance describes it in full, all the sums of all the energy costs is the details.
Susan - 18 Nov 2006 23:07 GMT > "Different calories matter differently." > > Only in so far as the nutrient source of the calories is concerned. You clearly slept through endcrinology 101.
I've reached my weekly limit for cement brained lack of comprehension by usenet denizens.
Susan
coonskin@amestwp.com - 19 Nov 2006 02:22 GMT "I've reached my weekly limit for cement brained lack of comprehension by usenet denizens."
I'm tempted to say "don't be so hard on yourself", but I will restrain myself.
The idea that was the conclusion of the link you provided is exactly what I have been saying. Don't you accept your own supporting information?
Nicky - 19 Nov 2006 09:45 GMT > "I've reached my weekly limit for cement brained lack of comprehension > by usenet denizens." [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > what I have been saying. Don't you accept your own supporting > information? Coonskin, did you actually read the cite? Here's the start of the conclusion: "Thermodynamics is not the limiting factor behind the concept of metabolic advantage. On the contrary, thermodynamics guarantees inefficiency in all metabolic processes and is silent on the possibility that inefficiency may be augmented in some instances."
In the body of the closely-argued text, they describe 4 and mention a further mechanism where metabolic advantage has been apparent in experimental studies. These include low carb and protein based diets.
He's not sure whether the observed metabolic advantage is coming from a dietary source or from endogenous (internal) mechanisms, hence the fence-sitting; he's absolutely clear that such an effect exists.
Nicky.
 Signature A1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 100ug Thyroxine 95/72/72Kg
coonskin@amestwp.com - 19 Nov 2006 22:44 GMT "Coonskin, did you actually read the cite? Here's the start of the conclusion: "Thermodynamics is not the limiting factor behind the concept of metabolic advantage. On the contrary, thermodynamics guarantees inefficiency in all metabolic processes and is silent on the possibility that inefficiency may be augmented in some instances."
In the body of the closely-argued text, they describe 4 and mention a further mechanism where metabolic advantage has been apparent in experimental studies. These include low carb and protein based diets.
He's not sure whether the observed metabolic advantage is coming from a dietary source or from endogenous (internal) mechanisms, hence the fence-sitting; he's absolutely clear that such an effect exists."
I read that conclusion also, it says in other words what I was saying. "Metabolic advantage" is with regard to possible "advantage" in weight loss because some nutrients require more energy, calories, to metabolize then do others. This follows your part above:
"The presence of high quantities of dietary protein (often a feature of low carbohydrate diets) is known to stimulate protein turnover, an energetically costly process. However, it is unclear whether this is the only factor, or whether it is necessary for metabolic advantage to occur."
I used the exact same example of how different pathways have differing energy costs. A high protein diet uses more energy to get to cells then does a carb or fat diet. But this only pushes the decimal point about some when the sum of all energy costs are totaled and subtracted from total calorie intake.
All of this changes the fundimental truth not at all, weight loss in the end depends on consuming fewer calories then are required for daily activity including basic metabolism. In principle a higher protein diet will be a bit faster given the same calorie intake because more of those calories are consumed in using protein compared to fat and carbs. If a low carb diet works it is because of this fundimentl process of mucking about with the energy costs of different nutrition sources and related metabolic advantages different sources engage.
A calorie is a calorie at the cell usage level. But how many calories are consumed getting those calories to the cell differrs depending on how much the original source of them has to be modified to get them to the cells and the cost in calories to carry out that process. All calories do not reach the cells in the same amount depending on the food source containing them. A low carb idet also consumes more calories to shift internal metabolism to consuming stored fat also which is an additional calorie cost to make it happen..
Doug Freyburger - 20 Nov 2006 15:36 GMT > > The unexamined reason that the weight loss looks so similar at one year > i> s that the low carb diets call for increased carb levels for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > As said, once all is said and done at 1 year weight loss was similar for > all diets because of reduced calories Notice how you're carefull to pick a specific time frame in order to be technically correct on your stated point while at the same time ignoring the facts for earlier time frames.
In many studies, low carbers without caloric restriction lose 4% more than low fatters with caloric restriction. The reason that loss at twice that length of time has reached the same levels is the metabolic advantage of ketosis is proportional to the amount of excess fat remaining to lose. A year later so many test subjects have bottomed out in both test groups that rates no longer mismatch. What these studies show is that if you're willing to stick with a low fat plus calorie restircted diet for longer than someone on a low carb non-restricted diet, you'll lose anyways.
> that is how in all diets works. A stance you reach by carefully ignoring one set of facts and selecting another set of facts without paying heed to why the numbers start different and end different.
> The details might vary to a degree but it is the calories in the > end. Any energy cost for different metabolic pathway engagment is a > detail and not an fundimental explanation. That's also incorrect on several levels.
1) Different fuels are burned using different metabolic pathways and they do have different efficiencies. Include digestion and calories have even greater inefficiencies. Calories are a poor measurement that happens to be easy to look up in a table. In a way, calories are rather like the scale reading that way.
2) Weight is caused by amount of stored body fat plus amount of lean plus other. If stored body fat is withdrwan from storage it is weight lost whether it is burned for fuel or not. Low insulin and high glucagon levels of ketosis draw fat from storage. Calories get wasted. Do enough studies on where it goes and I suggest you'll find where that 4% number above comes from. Also, low carbers lose less lean that low fatters.
3) Calories-in is not all there is to the equation. Calories-out is also a variable. It's why exercise is stressed. It's also why there is so much discussion of "starvation mode". What "starvation mode" is (other than something denied by folks who like to define stuff out of existance) is a reduction in basal metabolism. Carefully track basal metabolism in dieters and you'll discover some fun stuff. For example low carb reduces it less than low fat. But also extreme approaches to local carb reduce it more than mild approaches to low carb.
coonskin@amestwp.com - 20 Nov 2006 21:07 GMT My remarks in various posts in this thread encompass all of the below. 1 year was used to illustrate that at the longest time of studies comparing various diets with high protein/low carb results were similar and could be explained by fewer calories consumed compared to daily energy needs. Up to 6 months the high protein/low carb diets have a small advantage as below. Thereafter differences start to disappear to the 1 year point as above.
During those first 6 months it is reasonable to assume weight loss with high protein/low carb has higher energy costs for metablizing the different macronutrients, the energy costs of shifting to stored fat and protein intake, plus differential water loss not discussed before. By 6 months those higher energy costs have been consumed and the advantage starts to disappear.
Even considering the advantage for differing energy costs for different ratios of macronutrients, weight loss in the end, the 1 year point used as proxy for same, is because there was a deficit in energy as measured by calories made up by stored energy sources. This is valid and accounts for the loss inspite of the tinkering done to evoke differing energy costs. Bty, exercise level can be one energy cost and is easily added to the sum with ease.
Atkins wanted to distinguish his diet from others in part by suggesting some magic was at hand that calorie deficit did not account for in his results. High protein/low carb diets are now more generally accepted as working with some caloric advantage over others but with no reason to evoke some magical biophysics to describe the final result as compared to other equally caloric deficit diets. The 4 percent advantage for the first 6 months means for the same deficit another dieter will have to consume less to have the same weight loss results. At one year things have changed.
> Notice how you're carefull to pick a specific time frame in order to be
>technically correct on your stated point while at the same time >ignoring the facts for earlier time frames. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >also extreme approaches to local carb reduce it more than mild >approaches to low carb. Curly C - 26 Nov 2006 08:01 GMT I eat about 4000 calories a day and I am very lean. When I was eating high carb, I would gain weight if I went over 2500 calories. Without insulin present, it is darn near impossible to add fat to your body. If you eat too much though, you will have a harder time losing (even on 0 carb) but you won't gain any fat either.
I would keep the calories up but start exercising too. If you don't like to exercise, then you must reduce the calories but stay as close to 0 carbs as you can.
tunderbar@hotmail.com - 20 Nov 2006 16:52 GMT > I tried a famous low-carb diet for 3 month and didn't loose a pound. > How does it really work?! If you actually had tried a famous low-carb diet:
1) you would know how it "really" works 2) you would have "loosed" lots of pounds.
Therefore we must conclude that you are a troll and a liar and a sh.t disturber.
So go back to your hole in the ground and let us adults have real discussions in peace.
TC
ephedralover@hotmail.com - 22 Nov 2006 19:23 GMT > I tried a famous low-carb diet for 3 month and didn't loose a pound. > How does it really work?! Eat like Atkins, Die like Atkins. Bad diet, bad results.
jcderkoenig - 22 Nov 2006 19:30 GMT So following the Atkins plan will cause you to die of a major head injury after 72 years?
Amazing.
>> I tried a famous low-carb diet for 3 month and didn't loose a pound. >> How does it really work?! > > Eat like Atkins, Die like Atkins. Bad diet, bad results. ephedralover@hotmail.com - 22 Nov 2006 19:34 GMT After you have multiple heart attacks, oran failures and are grossly obese, yes.
> So following the Atkins plan will cause you to die of a major head injury > after 72 years? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > > Eat like Atkins, Die like Atkins. Bad diet, bad results. jcderkoenig - 22 Nov 2006 19:51 GMT What flavor of kool-aid was it?
> After you have multiple heart attacks, oran failures and are grossly > obese, yes. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> > >> > Eat like Atkins, Die like Atkins. Bad diet, bad results. ephedralover@hotmail.com - 22 Nov 2006 20:19 GMT Grape-Low Carb-High Grease.
> What flavor of kool-aid was it? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >> > > >> > Eat like Atkins, Die like Atkins. Bad diet, bad results. Bob (this one) - 22 Nov 2006 22:32 GMT > After you have multiple heart attacks, oran failures and are grossly > obese, yes. <LOL>
Another Wizard of the Whole Truth......
Pastorio
>> So following the Atkins plan will cause you to die of a major head injury >> after 72 years? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >>> Eat like Atkins, Die like Atkins. Bad diet, bad results.
|
|
|