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Carbs and biking/weight lifting

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Bob in CT - 22 Mar 2007 14:44 GMT
How many people take in carbs after or before biking and weight lifting?  
Last year, I found that if I was going to bike several days in a row, I  
needed to take in some carbs after biking.  If I had a day or two off  
between rides, I didn't need to take in carbs after the ride.

This year, I'll be lifting weights (24 sets per workout) on Monday and  
Friday, and biking around 1.5 hours each ride on Tuesday and Thursday, and  
biking from around 1.5 hours to 5 hours on Saturday.  I think I'll have to  
have some carbs before, during, or after these workouts, but the question  
remains as to how many grams of carbs.

What have you done for increasing carb intake for workouts?

Signature

Bob in CT

Tom - 22 Mar 2007 14:55 GMT
> How many people take in carbs after or before biking and weight lifting?
>
> What have you done for increasing carb intake for workouts?
>
> --
> Bob in CT

I used to hear fo people eating a few "smarties" before their
workouts.  I find that if I have a few wasa extra fiberish crackers
with a heavy vegetable light protein meal it gives me good energy.
Bob in CT - 22 Mar 2007 20:19 GMT
>> How many people take in carbs after or before biking and weight lifting?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> workouts.  I find that if I have a few wasa extra fiberish crackers
> with a heavy vegetable light protein meal it gives me good energy.

I definitely take in some amount of carbs before a workout, but it has to  
be right before, or else I can feel the blood sugar rise.

Signature

Bob in CT

Roger Zoul - 22 Mar 2007 15:38 GMT
:: How many people take in carbs after or before biking and weight
:: lifting? Last year, I found that if I was going to bike several days
:: in a row, I needed to take in some carbs after biking.  If I had a
:: day or two off between rides, I didn't need to take in carbs after
:: the ride.

For me it all depends on the ride and what carbs I've had prior.  If I'm
mostly depleted (due to strict LCing and lifting and exercise in general)
then I need carbs before, during, and after even a short ride.  If I'm not
depleted (because I ate something atypical for me) then I might not need
carbs. In fact, I'd use a ride to "deplete".  I feel that I always need to
compensate for any atypical carb consumption with an appropriate about of
exercise.

:: This year, I'll be lifting weights (24 sets per workout) on Monday
:: and Friday, and biking around 1.5 hours each ride on Tuesday and
:: Thursday, and biking from around 1.5 hours to 5 hours on Saturday.

I like to do lifting on Monday (sometimes), Tuesday and Thursday, so that by
weekend my longer rides won't be affected by the lifting.  Lifting works
better for me on T/TH because I can sometimes ride on M/W after work in the
summer (the place i like to ride is used by the racing crowd on Tuesdays).
I use that monday ride to "drain" glycogen in case I over compensate with
carbs on either weekend day.

I like to take in carbs about 30 minutes before I start riding (about 50-75
g). Then about an hour later I'll take a similar 'hit'.  My objective is to
not bonk on the road, because that is very painful and can ruin the rest of
the day. I think 40 kcals/mile and try to  about half that in carbs for
riding. Of course, the harder/faster/hillier your ride is, the greater % of
carbs you'll need, IMO. Afterwards, I try to mix carbs and protein in a
4-to-1 ratio soon after the ride.  Then I turn the carbs off.  If I get home
and find my BG in the 70s or low 80s, I'm usually headed for a hypo
situation, so I need some carbs then to head that off (that's the 4-to-1
thing).  If I don't, then I'll feel like warmed over sh*t for the rest of
the day no matter how many carbs I eat.

What I try to avoid is the major day long carb-ups that I use to do several
years ago (the CKD).  I try to burn them right after I eat them, so
obviously I eat only small amounts frequently, while exercising for extended
periods.  Like you, I try to do long rides on Saturday, and a shorter one on
Sunday.  The weekday rides are typically short, around 15-30 miles at most.

:: I think I'll have to have some carbs before, during, or after these
:: workouts, but the question remains as to how many grams of carbs.

For weight lifting, I think it really depends and I try to judge things
according to how I feel rather than automatically taking hits.  Most times,
I don't need any extra (I can also slow the pace of lifting, which helps).
But if I'm been exercising & eating so that I can get really drained, I'll
need some.  I can almost tell by how I feel.  And for lifting, those
smarties work as well as anything.  I think it also depends on what your
objectives are for the lifting, too.  I don't have lofty goals in this area,
I mainly lift for overall well being and to control T2D.  Hence, I can ramp
back on intensity as I see fit.  I keep my session under 1 hour.

:: What have you done for increasing carb intake for workouts?
::
:: --
:: Bob in CT
Bob in CT - 22 Mar 2007 20:18 GMT
> :: How many people take in carbs after or before biking and weight
> :: lifting? Last year, I found that if I was going to bike several days
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> I use that monday ride to "drain" glycogen in case I over compensate with
> carbs on either weekend day.

That's a great idea, actually, to lift T, TH and ride M, W, Sat.  I don't  
know why I didn't think of that!

> I like to take in carbs about 30 minutes before I start riding (about  
> 50-75
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Sunday.  The weekday rides are typically short, around 15-30 miles at  
> most.

I was thinking about the CKD, but I think my sugar metabolism is still too  
screwed up to try that.  If I eat carbs immediately before, during, or  
immediately after exercise, I have no blood sugar problems.  If I eat them  
at times unrelated to exercise, I still have blood sugar problems.

> :: I think I'll have to have some carbs before, during, or after these
> :: workouts, but the question remains as to how many grams of carbs.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> :: --
> :: Bob in CT

Very good points, Roger.  I guess I'll just have to try these techniques  
and see what happens.

Signature

Bob in CT

Pat - 23 Mar 2007 00:13 GMT
> For me it all depends on the ride and what carbs I've had prior.  If I'm
> mostly depleted (due to strict LCing and lifting and exercise in general)
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> compensate for any atypical carb consumption with an appropriate about of
> exercise.

Heh heh. That's what I do, too. I don't eat any carbs during the ride--it's
just what I've had for breakfast. I take water during the ride, but no carbo
snacks at rest breaks.

Pat in TX
taddy - 23 Mar 2007 02:00 GMT
Last Spring I started a similar program -- cycling and weightlifting.
I was hoping to drop maybe 5-8 pounds, but I ended up dropping 20.
This has been a magical combination for me that really works.  I hope
it does the same for you.

I was eating around 15% or so of calories from net carbs when I
started.  I kicked that up to around 20% by mid-summer and now I have
settled in at 25% .  I got there by trial and error; I feel good and
have maintained my weight, and seem to have plenty of energy to
workout.  I plan on the same aproach this summer.

I lift four times weekly for one hour, and will cycle 4 times weekly
for about 25-30 miles, with an occasional long ride thrown in (40 or
more miles).  That should give you some idea of the level of effort I
put it.  I'm 46 years old.

Initially I was one of those people that didn't eat prior to working
out.  I liked to feel empty and I also was trying to drop a few
pounds, so I didn't like the idea of eating and then feeling like I
was already in the hole before I even started.  But I soon learned
that this was a very bad idea.  I can tell you one thing I experienced
very intensely, and that was what it is like to be REALLY hungry.
Early on on some longer rides I had this feeling of my body absolutely
screaming for food.  I've been hungry before (who hasn't?) but not
like this.  Food almost became like oxygen.  That taught me to be more
careful about what I ate and when.

As to carb intake, there are a handful of foods that have become
staples -- old-fashioned oatmeal, apples, Barilla Plus pasta (yes,
pasta), and whole grain bread are favorites.  A bowl of oatmeal with
berries was a typical pre-ride meal, maybe along with some protein for
long-term energy.  A slice of whole grain toast with a big smear of
almond butter is another favorite.  Apples are always handy, and I
often took them with me on workouts.  I tended to eat the pasta in the
evenings after a long bike ride, which I found to be very satisfying,
and would oddly send me off into the deepest sleep imaginable at the
end of the day. After weightlifiting I normally would go for large
amounts of protein, not carbs.  I did eat some carbs (such as an
apple) prior to lifting.

Good luck, I hope my personal experiences may be of some use to you.
RRzVRR - 23 Mar 2007 10:48 GMT
> How many people take in carbs after or before biking and weight
> lifting?   Last year, I found that if I was going to bike several days
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> What have you done for increasing carb intake for workouts?

I've done TDK off and on for many years.

If your doing full body workouts (since you say its only twice a
week), at only 24 sets per workout, I not sure that you're going
to need do much, if any carb-ups for WT.

I'd suggest that you consider lifting for a couple of weeks than
then slowly take in some very controlled carb hits pre-post WT
workouts (which worked better for me).  Start at a very low
amount, maybe even just 24g and then only up it til you feel the
benefit in the next workout.

I'd also highly advise that you not take in your carbs via
"meals" but with sources that you don't see as foods.  Look into
some creatine mixes (you'll get dextrose with a small measure of
creatine -- which is getting a lot of good press lately in regard
to brain health) or the ever popular Smarties.  In short
something that's dextrose based, something that you can be
precise with, and not something that you'll see as "food" or as a
treat.

Just remember you're taking in the carbs to replenish for the
next workout and not working out to get carbs.

Signature

Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
 -Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

Hollywood - 23 Mar 2007 13:40 GMT
> How many people take in carbs after or before biking and weight lifting?
> Last year, I found that if I was going to bike several days in a row, I
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> What have you done for increasing carb intake for workouts?

Nothing.
Let's see. I do 3 days of lifting, 3 laps of 3 circuits of 3
exercises, so 18 sets, lot of reps on some of those. I do 2 days of
high intensity intervals on a bike (20-25 minutes).
I take my Adderall before, and a protein shake (2g carbs). I get
through fine and feel great.
Generally have 1/2 a grapefruit, 1 kiwi or a cup of strawberries post
workout, but half-1.5 hours post.

I don't bike like you do. I don't have the time.
Roger Zoul - 23 Mar 2007 14:00 GMT
:: On Mar 22, 9:44 am, "Bob in CT" <ctvigge...@comcast.net> wrote:
::: How many people take in carbs after or before biking and weight
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
::
:: I don't bike like you do. I don't have the time.

Yeah, riding those hills for long periods is really a draining activity.
Good for your heart, though.
Pat - 23 Mar 2007 15:11 GMT
> I don't bike like you do. I don't have the time.

Everybody has the same amount of time. You just choose to use it
differently.

Pat in TX
Roger Zoul - 23 Mar 2007 16:09 GMT
::: I don't bike like you do. I don't have the time.
::
:: Everybody has the same amount of time. You just choose to use it
:: differently.
::
:: Pat in TX

:)
Hollywood - 26 Mar 2007 14:20 GMT
> > I don't bike like you do. I don't have the time.
>
> Everybody has the same amount of time. You just choose to use it
> differently.
>
> Pat in TX

Thanks for the insight. No, really.

I could, tomorrow, quit my job (that's 40 hours a week back + 1.5-2/
day in commute).
I could cut sleep back below 7 hours/night (of course, that would
probably slow my weight loss more than any additional exercise)

I suppose I could go for two hour bike rides after work. (Note: I live
in a city that ranked a D-, 90+ out of 100 on annual traffic
fatalities, so this might not be a good idea).

On the flip side, Maybe I don't want to bike like them. I'd rather
keep my current job, maintain my level of reading on my commute, not
dodge Northern VA traffic on my bike, and not stall weightloss with
excessive amounts of steady state cardio nor overtraining.

I'll keep my schedule as it is. But thanks for the insight Pat. I
suppose I could have skipped this response, and saved two minutes.
Roger Zoul - 27 Mar 2007 01:25 GMT
:: On Mar 23, 11:05 am, "Pat" <P...@faraway.com> wrote:
:::: I don't bike like you do. I don't have the time.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
:: I'll keep my schedule as it is. But thanks for the insight Pat. I
:: suppose I could have skipped this response, and saved two minutes.

Seems as if he said the same thing you just did, only he said it more
succiently.
Hollywood - 27 Mar 2007 14:11 GMT
> :: On Mar 23, 11:05 am, "Pat" <P...@faraway.com> wrote:
> :::: I don't bike like you do. I don't have the time.
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> Seems as if he said the same thing you just did, only he said it more
> succiently.

Some of us care to say the very most. Sometimes.
Roger Zoul - 28 Mar 2007 01:55 GMT
:: On Mar 26, 8:25 pm, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
::: Hollywood wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
::
:: Some of us care to say the very most. Sometimes.

:)
RRzVRR - 24 Mar 2007 13:27 GMT
> Generally have 1/2 a grapefruit, 1 kiwi or a cup of strawberries post
> workout, but half-1.5 hours post.

If you're taking in the fruit as a means to replenish, you might
want to look into how fructose and other 'oses are handled by the
body.

In short, fructose will stay in your liver and replenish glycogen
stores there (a problem with getting/staying in ketosis) where
dextrose will more readily sent to the blood stream and thereby
more accessible for muscle glycogen replenishment.

Signature

Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
 -Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

Jbuch - 24 Mar 2007 14:36 GMT
>> Generally have 1/2 a grapefruit, 1 kiwi or a cup of strawberries post
>> workout, but half-1.5 hours post.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> more readily sent to the blood stream and thereby more accessible for
> muscle glycogen replenishment.

Sounds like a reason for high fructose corn syrup sweetened drinks to be
 especially avoided.

There used to be some dextrose based hiker energy mints for sale, about
20 years ago. I was skinny then. They worked to give added energy for
uphill hiking for about 15 to 20 minutes.

In your opoinion, would something like this be "a good thing"?
RRzVRR - 26 Mar 2007 01:02 GMT
>>> Generally have 1/2 a grapefruit, 1 kiwi or a cup of strawberries post
>>> workout, but half-1.5 hours post.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Sounds like a reason for high fructose corn syrup sweetened drinks to be
>  especially avoided.

You're right.  Its that liver-fructose connection that has a lot
of people concerned about the refined fructose (made from
starches) HFCS.  Ketosis aside, the liver converts fructose to
fatty acids quickly.

> There used to be some dextrose based hiker energy mints for sale, about
> 20 years ago. I was skinny then. They worked to give added energy for
> uphill hiking for about 15 to 20 minutes.
>
> In your opoinion, would something like this be "a good thing"?

I was suggesting that if someone exercised with enough intensity
and duration to deplete their muscle's glycogen storage, then it
would be better to take in dextrose to replenish for the next
workout.  Dextrose would go quickly to the bloodstream and
thereby taken up quickly by the muscles (especially right after
training).  So for those of us who what to replenish muscle
glycogen for future exercise and return to ketosis quickly, a
small amount of dextrose would be a good route.

On top of that, one of the easier ways I've found to get dextrose
is from some creatine loading mixes.  Lately there's been some
research on how creatine might be helpful in brain injuries and
Parkinson's disease.  While you would be only be taking in a very
small amount of creatine (because you'd be taking in a small
amount of dextrose) to reload, at least you shouldn't be worried
about creatine.

Personally, I don't think taking in carbs during exercise is a
good idea unless you're doing very high intensity for a very long
duration.

Signature

Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
 -Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

Pat - 25 Mar 2007 03:09 GMT
> In short, fructose will stay in your liver and replenish glycogen stores
> there (a problem with getting/staying in ketosis) where dextrose will more
> readily sent to the blood stream and thereby more accessible for muscle
> glycogen replenishment.
> Rudy -

Um, sounds like the difference between Cytomax and Endurox!  I knew there
was a reason I liked Cytomax!

Pat in TX
Hollywood - 26 Mar 2007 14:23 GMT
> > Generally have 1/2 a grapefruit, 1 kiwi or a cup of strawberries post
> > workout, but half-1.5 hours post.
>
> If you're taking in the fruit as a means to replenish, you might
> want to look into how fructose and other 'oses are handled by the
> body.

No. I just eat them to have some non-brown food in my diet. I've had
some very excellent workouts on sub-10g carb days.

> In short, fructose will stay in your liver and replenish glycogen
> stores there (a problem with getting/staying in ketosis) where
> dextrose will more readily sent to the blood stream and thereby
> more accessible for muscle glycogen replenishment.

I haven't seemed to have this problem as of yet. Very steady ketosis,
very steady loss. I could see how others might have a problem, but
carbs (even with the fruit) are like <40G every day, and <10% of total
calories. Protein Power!
 
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