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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / August 2007Low carb-ing is tough!
Hi all... Some background: male age 49..... wanting better health and to optimize it I've read the books and believe in low carb approach BUT.... its TOUGH! I'm running out of ideas on things to eat..especially for breakfast I will admit...I LIKE MY CARBS!! Ha! Advice? > Hi all... > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Advice? Hello, again, fancy meeting you here. :-) Breakfast is the toughest meal for low carbers. Once you get sick of eggs, you can try making smoothies with some protein powder, plain yogurt and frozen strawberries, have cottage cheese with some berries, or do what I do often; eat dinner leftovers. Susan > Hello, again, fancy meeting you here. :-) > > Breakfast is the toughest meal for low carbers. Once you get sick of > eggs, you can try making smoothies with some protein powder, plain > yogurt and frozen strawberries, have cottage cheese with some berries, > or do what I do often; eat dinner leftovers. P.S. run a google search on this newsgroup's archive going back several years; you'll find a LOT of discussions about how to vary breakfasts. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > P.S. run a google search on this newsgroup's archive going back several > years; you'll find a LOT of discussions about how to vary breakfasts. Eggs can be used in a variety of ways for breakfast, to keep it varied, scrambled, omlettes, etc. I like an occasional pork roll, egg and cheese sandwich. You can make the LC version of these, just leave out the roll. Instead of pork roll, you can use canadian bacon, ham, bacon etc. Just do an egg both sides, then top with cheese, meat and microwave for a bit. And there is quiche, which you can make crustless ahead of time and will keep for days. I think Blaine's LC Kitchen on FIT TV has a recipe on their website, or you can just LC adapt other recipes. I make it with ham, cheese and asparagus, and it's excellent. Then there are shakes. You can make them using tofu, LC milk, and LC flavored syrup. Or you can buy pre-made ones, either liquid or power at health food shops. As you move past induction, you can even include LC pancakes. I'm still working off some of the Atkins pancake mix that is no longer available. But I'm sure you can find recipes. Key is replacing the flour with soy flour or soy protein. The Atkins ones are very good, with some butter, LC syrup, and a few strawberries. Certainly not the best pancakes, but quite acceptable, IMO. BREAKFAST FRESH SPANISH IN OLIVER OIL STEAM WITH FRESH GARLIC AND ONION.....FRY AND EGG ON THE SIDE......AND EAT YUMMIE YUMMIE <> > BREAKFAST > FRESH SPANISH IN OLIVER OIL STEAM WITH FRESH GARLIC AND ONION.....FRY > AND EGG ON THE SIDE......AND EAT YUMMIE YUMMIE <> Hrm, what do we have against Spanish speakers? And I suppose you need to squeeze Jamie Oliver to get Oliver Oil. ;-) >Breakfast is the toughest meal for low carbers. Once you get sick of >eggs, you can try making smoothies with some protein powder, plain >yogurt and frozen strawberries, have cottage cheese with some berries, >or do what I do often; eat dinner leftovers. yep..breakfast is the one that is the toughest for me so many "breakfast foods" are high carb items!! m...@privacy.net wrote: > I'm running out of ideas on things > to eat..especially for breakfast My advice works for afternoon/evening people but is worthless for morning people: Variety in the morning is for the morning people not for the afternoon people. Before I started low carbing I eat the same cereal for months on end before changing brand and even then I changed from one cereal to another. That's not actually variety. If I didn't have variety at breakfast before I started low carbing, there shouldn't be a need for variety at breakfast now that I'm low carbing. I decided that "getting sick of eggs" was actually the old habit of the cereal struggling for its life. I just kept eating my same low carb breakfast and assumed in a couple of months the old habit would go away and get replaced by the new habit. It took a couple of months but the eggs gradually became my new comfort food in the morning. Advice from morning people who can create variety in the morning: You can eat any low carb food in the morning. It doesn't have to be "breakfast food". So consider leftovers or any of the day foods you've been eating. > I will admit...I LIKE MY CARBS!! Ha! How much of that is old habits trying to stay alive? The longer I was on low carb the less tempted I was by the high carb foods. Until I hit maintenance ... Hi. I'm Doug and I'm a carb addict. What this means is abstinence works best. Yet every plan out there is clear that some level of higher carb count is better for maintenance. My maintenance level is high enough that I get tempted by slippery slope carbs. The "one bite can hurt" bit of Atkins Induction can be handled early on by not taking that first bite. That's a lot easier at 20 than at 100. >assumed in a couple of months the >old habit would go away and get replaced by the new habit. >It took a couple of months but the eggs gradually became >my new comfort food in the morning. OK But besides eggs what else is there for breakfast in the AM? > But besides eggs what else is there for breakfast in the AM? Cheesecake. Nuts. Ice cream. Leftovers from yesterday's supper. Berries (Atkins himself had blueberries in cream for breakfast). Once you're past the startup phase of whatever LC diet you're on, there are plenty of alternatives, you just have to be a little creative. I've done LC banana bread, protein pancakes, muffins, etc. >I've done LC banana bread, would it be justified to buy an automatic bread maker for low carbing? Probably not, the yeast breads that are made in a breadmaker are hard to make low carb, they require the gluten in wheat flour to hold them together. Banana bread is a quick bread, raised with baking powder instead of yeast. || I've done LC banana bread, | | would it be justified to buy an automatic bread maker | for low carbing? >Probably not, the yeast breads that are made in a breadmaker are hard to >make low carb, they require the gluten in wheat flour to hold them together. >Banana bread is a quick bread, raised with baking powder instead of yeast. ok....so what kind of bread IS low carb bread then? what it made of? where to buy it? m...@privacy.net wrote: > >Probably not, the yeast breads that are made in a breadmaker are hard to > >make low carb, they require the gluten in wheat flour to hold them together. > >Banana bread is a quick bread, raised with baking powder instead of yeast. > > ok....so what kind of bread IS low carb bread then? You're still new, right? Low carb bread is called "broccoli". Leave the grass to the cows and sheep. > what it made of? where to buy it? Green grocer section. Even the so-called low carb breads aren't low carb relative to actual low carb foods. They are low carb relative to Wonder Bread. Several months in, that may be the time to look into baking with nut flour or soy flour or whatever. Not early on when you still want to think that grass is for humans not cattle. I mean grain is for humans not cattle. Whatever, grass, grain ... > ok....so what kind of bread IS low carb bread then? Bread made with ground nuts, soybean flour, etc. http://www.misspixel.com/lowcarb/banana_bread.html > ok....so what kind of bread IS low carb bread then? > > what it made of? where to buy it? You can buy the thin sliced diet breads with high fiber, Toufayan low carb pita and wraps, there are low carb tortillas. I mail order low carb bagels and English muffins from westernbagel.com My concern is that you're focused on bread and replacing starches with starches. Try to focus more one protein and colorful plant sources of carbs, like veggies, salad and berries. I like ratatouille omelettes for breakfast. You might try shopping the low carb stuff at netrition.com Carbqsense bake mix is a good low carb sub for Bisquick and you can make all the same things with it, including pancakes with sugar free syrup. Xylitol is a good sweetener for baking, etc. Some of the products are gross. Susan go to the bread area, of your local grocery store and start reading the carb counts of bread. we are have TWO standards in our area. >>Probably not, the yeast breads that are made in a breadmaker are hard to >>make low carb, they require the gluten in wheat flour to hold them [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > what it made of? where to buy it? Bread is not low carb, idiot. > go to the bread area, of your local grocery store and start reading the > carb counts of bread. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> what it made of? where to buy it? > Bread is not low carb, idiot. Atkins' 1997 NDR pp 306 to 307 says certain recipes for bread, pancakes, and muffins, are acceptable at certain points in his LC diet. If I have to pick between him and you as to who knows what an LC diet is, I'll pick him. >> Bread is not low carb, idiot. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If I have to pick between him and you as to who knows what an LC diet > is, I'll pick him. He was trying to make money and I'm not. You're not quite the idiot that rosie is, so you should be able to see where that leads. > > Bread is not low carb, idiot. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If I have to pick between him and you as to who knows what an LC diet > is, I'll pick him. I believe that whoever wrote the recipe sections of the various editions of the Diet Revolution book didn't know the plan from the earlier parts of the books. Since Dr A did make money from selling his baking substitute and other products he had very little incentive to carefully proofread the recipe section. One example is the rules for Induction up until the 2002 edition did not list grains as acceptable foods during Induction. But the sample menus in at least one version shows low carb bread. And by the 2002 edition when Atkins the company was selling meal replacement bars the rules for Induction got an addition that meal replacement bars are acceptable during Induction as long as they are Atkins brand. Breads made of nut or soy flours seem far less controversial than breads made of substitutes. (I don't consider stuff made from core low carb foods to be substitutes so I don't consider fauxtatoes, nut bread and so on substitutes. I don't expect anyone to agree with me on the point but I hope the principle behind it is clear). Conveniently, nuts are early in the carb ladder and legumes appear before grains as well. So in the end I think recipes like flax seed muffins are low carb and they are far preferable to low carb breads, pancakes and such. Whether low carb pancakes are bad for any one individual, that's why the Atkins Nutritional Approach is a process not a menu - It teaches what is and what isn't acceptable for you as an individual. So follow the process and the process will tell you if pancakes made from substitutes are acceptable to your individual body. > I believe that whoever wrote the recipe sections of the various > editions of the Diet Revolution book didn't know the plan from > the earlier parts of the books. Since Dr A did make money > from selling his baking substitute and other products he had > very little incentive to carefully proofread the recipe section. In the 1997 book, the "basic protein bread" used plain soy powder, no mixes, no grains. My recipes use commercial (whey, casein) protein powders, and almond or soy flour. > In the 1997 book, the "basic protein bread" used plain soy powder, no > mixes, no grains. OMG! i remember those, they were awful! your still around? <PLONK> > Bread is not low carb, idiot. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>> >>> what it made of? where to buy it? You're still an idiot. > your still around? > <PLONK> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>>> >>>> what it made of? where to buy it? "jerkoing" wrote (something worthless and nobody cares.) You don't care enough and that's exactly why you're still obese. > "jcderkoening" wrote (something worthwhile and em(nobody) cares.) "jerkoffpig" <jerkoffpig@ibm.com> can dish it out but he can't take it. Not obese any more! In part, thanks to RP-Rosie & all the cool people here. Reality check, fatboy. You've only done the easy part. > Not obese any more! In part, thanks to RP-Rosie & all the fat people here. :) your welcome! > "jerkoffpig" <jerkoffpig@ibm.com> can dish it out but he can't take it. > > Not obese any more! In part, thanks to RP-Rosie & all the cool people > here. >>I've done LC banana bread, > > would it be justified to buy an automatic bread maker > for low carbing? Um. NO. Susan m...@privacy.net wrote: > >assumed in a couple of months the > >old habit would go away and get replaced by the new habit. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > But besides eggs what else is there for breakfast in > the AM? Besides? I'm an afternoon person. In the morning there IS no "besides". It's enough that I make it to the office and start doing stuff in the morning. Besides and food, that's an afternoon concept for me. What else? I'm an afternoon person. In the morning there IS no "what else". "What else" and food, that's an afternoon concept for me. If you're an afternoon or evening person and you're trying for variety in the morning, you're wasting your effort. If you're a morning person asking me for advice about morning variety, you're asking the wrong person. On Aug 17, 3:02 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote: > >assumed in a couple of months the > >old habit would go away and get replaced by the new habit. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > But besides eggs what else is there for breakfast in > the AM? Think outside the Breakfast Box. This morning I had 2 hot dogs with sliced dill pickle and cheese wrapped in 2 Romaine lettuce leaves to act as a bun. Yesterday was a left over steak The day before was a LC version of Hamburger helper. The day before that was 2 hardboiled eggs cut up with Mayo and green sliced olives to make an egg salad wrapped in Romaine leaves. I had fillet minon on Monday for breakfast . Breakfast is just a meal and anything goes. Brian 222/189/180 since Jan01/07 >>assumed in a couple of months the >>old habit would go away and get replaced by the new habit. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > But besides eggs what else is there for breakfast in > the AM? There is no RIGID breakfast food rule that you must follow. There is no OFFICIAL breakfast food, but there are customs in each country/region such as meat and eggs, cereal, toast, and so on. 150 years ago, there were no prepared cereals. So, cereals aren't an ancient part of the breakfast ritual. For example. There is a time and place for you to take steps to solve your own problems concerning lack of knowledge..... FAQ There is a FAQ for this low carb stuff, and it is posted here weekly by RRzVRR... > FAQ: A Beginner's Guide to Low Carb Living > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm > http://home.comcast.net/~agross/asdlc/ Here are some of the food/recipe links given by RRzVRR in the FAQ > Low-carb Cooking: > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > http://www.lowcarbcentre.com/ > http://www.lowcarb.com/ > 150 years ago, there were no prepared cereals. So, cereals aren't an > ancient part of the breakfast ritual. For example. There was porridge. Slow cooked whole grain mush. Today that would be steel cut oats, hominy grits or other hot cereals not as convenient as ones that come in boxes or packets. Porridges tend to be carby but not have any sugar - Eat them from childhood rather than sugary flakes and you might never need low carb. Since oatmeal is in the 10-20 gram range one strategy to hit 40-50ish is to have oatmeal for breakfast (cream not brown sugar, chuckle) and eat plenty of low carb veggies with the rest of your meals. > But besides eggs what else is there for breakfast in > the AM? Meat, cheese and other dairy, veggies, low-sugar fruits; i.e. the same stuff there is for the other meals. Today, for breakfast I had a cup of fullfat cottage cheese and a cup of cut cantalope... coming in at 20g carb, 28g protein and 276 calories. Yesterday, I had a strawberry protein shake made with 1 cup frozen strawberries, 2 scoops (2/3 cup) unflavored, unsweetened milk protein isolate, 1 oz heavy cream and 12 oz water... coming in at 11g carb, 55g protein and 375 calories. Whether those work for you may depend on how low-carb you are aiming for. Neither are for induction, but they work for me. A few days ago, I woke extra hugnry so had a big breakfast... a cream cheese and chive omelet. Cook the chives in butter first, then add the egg/cream mixture, and add some cream cheese to melt into the center before you fold it... using 1 TB each of butter and chives, 3 eggs, a ounce of cream and 2 ounces of cream cheese this comes in at 4g carb, 24g protein and 632 calories. Yes, that is eggs, but it doesn't taste like eggs... entirely different. As are quiche and custards and such. When I have leftovers around, I tend to eat those instead... it's just too easy to grab a few slices of turkey or ham rather than have to fix something specifically for breakfast. Susan gave you the best advice, to google this group. This topic has been covered bazillions of times and there's piles of ideas.  Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ >> assumed in a couple of months the >> old habit would go away and get replaced by the new habit. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > But besides eggs what else is there for breakfast in > the AM? I usually have a ground flax seed/almond/coconut pancake for breakfast (pre-made and kept handy in the freezer) -- often with some peanut butter on top. Another regular breakfast staple, Wasa light rye flat bread with a topping: cream cheese & lox or cottage cheese. In the Fall and Winter I'll take the same mix of flax seed/almond/coconut and instead of putting in an egg, I'll just add hot water, then cream for a hot poraige -- often with nuts on top. SignatureRudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond. "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" -Emiliano Zapata Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm Back when I started, it took some months to figure out what to eat. I had a list that I made and posted on the refrigerator. This might be a good time to mention that all your carby stuff should be or should have been tossed in the garbage can. > Hi all... > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Advice? >This might be a good time to mention that all your carby stuff should be or >should have been tossed in the garbage can. Is this what you did? So you have no breads, cereal, ice creams, nothing like that in your house at all? >>This might be a good time to mention that all your carby stuff should be or >>should have been tossed in the garbage can. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > So you have no breads, cereal, ice creams, nothing like > that in your house at all? What would be the point of having them? Susan Well, if you have a non low-carbing SO who is already skinny and loses weight on your low carb diet, you need to have some carbs to feed him. I have no problem with them, however, I just don't eat that stuff. I buy potato salad, fix rice or instant potatoes for him, buy him hot dog buns (he doesn't care for regular bread). We also have bananas, Hershey bars, Oreos (which I never liked anyway). I have my treats, SF chocolate, SF Jello, my LC muffins for breakfast. You simply have to define some things in your mind as "not food" for yourself. | x-no-archive: yes | [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] | | Susan > x-no-archive: yes >> So you have no breads, cereal, ice creams, nothing like >> that in your house at all? > > What would be the point of having them? My kitchen is full of carby stuff I can't eat. I'm the one with the weight problem & so forth, not my kids. I simply don't touch the stuff, ever. > My kitchen is full of carby stuff I can't eat. I'm the one with the > weight problem & so forth, not my kids. I simply don't touch the stuff, > ever. The OP was asking for his own benefit, not for his family's, IIRC. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > The OP was asking for his own benefit, not for his family's, IIRC. Oh, well, if that's the case, what would be the point of having them? Correct. All long gone except for a sealed 20 pound bag of rice in a back storage area in case of famine. I used Low Carb Ice Cream at times, but the more recent few LC Ice Cream product offerings have problems. Problems like the use of Fructose in the ingredients. I was 320 pounds in 2003, and I'm in the range of 160 now. I reached goal a couple of years ago.... no breads no cereals no cookies no snack crackers no fruit no juice no pasta no ice cream no sugar no potatoes or chips no jam or jelly no cake or pie >>This might be a good time to mention that all your carby stuff should be >>or [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > So you have no breads, cereal, ice creams, nothing like > that in your house at all? > So you have no breads, cereal, ice creams, nothing like > that in your house at all? Correct. Also no sugar, pasta, rice, potatoes, corn, etc. The space those things used to take up is now used for canned tuna, salmon, mackerel, vegetables, nuts, seeds, and so on. I do keep a little oat flour for lightly breading things sometimes, because it has half the carbs of wheat flour, but that's pretty much it for grains in my kitchen. For breakfast, I eat eggs with bacon or sausage pretty much every day. I've been doing that for at least 15 years, so I doubt I'll get tired of it. There doesn't have to be any such thing as "breakfast food", though. When you're hungry, eat something low-carb that sounds good to you, regardless of the time of day. I've been known to eat leftover steak, tuna salad, or anything else on mornings when I forgot I needed to pick up eggs the day before. SignatureAaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz >> So you have no breads, cereal, ice creams, nothing like >> that in your house at all? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >flour for lightly breading things sometimes, because it has half the >carbs of wheat flour, but that's prett Ok Was just curious as to how dedicated most are to low carbing. Curious if there was SOME carbs in the kitchen > Ok > > Was just curious as to how dedicated most are to low > carbing. Curious if there was SOME carbs in the > kitchen There are carbs in my kitchen, but not starches, save for low carb wraps. There are carbs from berries, salad greens, veggies, dairy, nuts, avocados, olives, tomatoes, etc. Susan >> Was just curious as to how dedicated most are to low >> carbing. Curious if there was SOME carbs in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >There are carbs from berries, salad greens, veggies, dairy, nuts, >avocados, olives, tomatoes, etc. OK I currently have low glycemic bread, rolled oatmeal, non-fat milk, some soy milk, pomegranate juice, ect Should Throw all that out? Bottom line...don't eat this stuff? > OK > > I currently have low glycemic bread, rolled oatmeal, > non-fat milk, some soy milk, pomegranate juice, ect > > Should Throw all that out? Yep, except the soy milk if it's unsweetened and low carb, and the pomegranate juice if you don't drink it. You can use it in marinades or salad dressing. > Bottom line...don't eat this stuff? Yup. Buy full fat milk, but don't drink a lot, lactose is a very fast acting sugar. Susan >Yep, except the soy milk if it's unsweetened and low carb, Yep its plain soy milk...fairly low in carbs >Yup. Buy full fat milk, but don't drink a lot, lactose is a very fast >acting sugar. So why not just stick with skim milk then? It surely has less carbs than full fat? > So why not just stick with skim milk then? It surely > has less carbs than full fat? No. When they remove the fat, there's more lactose per oz, not less. Skim milk is higher sugar and it's a very fast acting sugar. Read the labels or look things up, maybe, before asking dopey questions, 'kay? :-) Susan > So why not just stick with skim milk then? It surely > has less carbs than full fat? No. Cream has the lowest carbs; skim the highest. I don't drink milk... ever. I use heavy cream in my coffee. For recipes that require milk, I use half cream and half water. For *my* level of carb intake, even whole milk is way too carby - it'd cut into the amount of vegetables, fruit and other dairy products I could eat. Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ <me@privacy.net> wrote in message > So why not just stick with skim milk then? It surely > has less carbs than full fat? this is a WHOLE NEW WAY OF THINKING, and it takes time and practice. start with reading EVERY label on EVERYTHING you pick up on the grocery. watch ONLY for carb count and fiber count. skip reading the FAT and CALORIE content for now. it was difficult for me in the beginning to stop worrying about calories and fat. but once i made the transition, i learned what an easy thing just counting carbs is! >it was difficult for me in the beginning to stop worrying about calories and >fat. yeah I guess same for me as well > So why not just stick with skim milk then? It surely > has less carbs than full fat? Why would you think that? You do realize fat and carbs are two different things, right? Whole milk is about 3.5% cream, which contains most of the fat. Remove the cream from a quart of whole milk, and you're left with 96.5% of a quart of skim milk. Most of the carbs are left in the skimmed portion. So by the time you fill the quart the rest of the way up with more skim milk, you've increased the total carb count. But it's worse than a 3.5% difference, because what really matters when it comes to fueling your body and keeping your belly full is calories. The cream, being high in fat, contains a lot more than 3.5% of the calories in whole milk. Since a cup of skim milk has fewer calories than a cup of whole milk, you'll have to drink more of it to fuel your body and stop your hunger, so you'll end up drinking a lot more than 3.5% more carbs. Here's the deal on packaged and processed foods: most of the natural flavor in foods comes from fat or carbs. Protein is pretty tasteless; that's why a skinless chicken breast is the dullest piece of meat you can get. Check out the label on low-fat peanut butter sometime, and see how much sugar they add to replace the flavor they removed by taking out the fat. So if something is marketed as low-fat, you can almost guarantee that it's high-carb -- unless it's something that's intended to be tasteless, like shirataki noodles. Of course, you can always check the labels, too. SignatureAaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz >Why would you think that? You do realize fat and carbs are two >different things, right? Because when I pick up a carton of whole milk and look at the carbs.... it appears to have as many carbs as skim milk...or close >>Why would you think that? You do realize fat and carbs are two >>different things, right? > > Because when I pick up a carton of whole milk and look > at the carbs.... it appears to have as many carbs as > skim milk...or close It is close; as I said, the fatty cream is only 3.5% of whole milk by volume, so taking it off won't make a huge difference in carbs. Most low-carbers don't drink milk at all for that reason. Skim or whole, it's just too high in sugar. But if you already looked at the labels and saw that skim milk didn't have fewer carbs than full-fat, why did you ask: > So why not just stick with skim milk then? It surely > has less carbs than full fat? That's the confusion I was responding to. Glad you got it straightened out. SignatureAaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz >But if you already looked at the labels and saw that skim milk didn't >have fewer carbs than full-fat, why did you ask: I guess cause I was thinking abt a second question and that was: Does it hurt to restrict fat AND carbs? Or is one supposed to forget abt fats on low crab diets completely? My blood fats run high....am on statins.... the thing I'm trying to do is alter lifestyle to get OFF statins or severely reduce need for it BUT..... we are told over and over to limit fat intake... doctor tells me this , etc I can see the logic of carb limiting... as I've learned here..... but does one forget abt worrying abt fats? Example.... instead of eating egg beaters like I've always done (no fats just egg whites).... do I now start eating whole eggs? > Does it hurt to restrict fat AND carbs? Or is one supposed to > forget abt fats on low crab diets completely? Well, there's some controversy on that one. In general, dieting works like this: * You need X grams of protein, no matter what. The actual amount depends on LBM and activity level. * You need about 6g of essential fatty acids (aka fish oil). * Then you add carbs and/or fats to bring it up to some calorie level. What to fill in for the third bullet is the subject of many diets. On LC, you limit carbs to a fixed amount, so the rest is going to be fats, unless you eat a boatload of protein, which is not as easy, not neccessary, and for people with kidney problems may be harmful. A protein sparing modified fast, for example, defines the third bullet as "essentially none", excepting only fibrous veggies (fiber is good). > My blood fats run high....am on statins.... the thing I'm trying to > do is alter lifestyle to get OFF statins or severely reduce need for > it Sounds like you have the genetic type of blood lipid problems, which diet may not have much influence over. If so, reducing dietary fat is a waste of time (in the long run). You'd be better off (1) losing weight, and (2) exercising more, both of which can improve blood chemistry. > BUT..... we are told over and over to limit fat intake... doctor > tells me this , etc An excess of saturated fat, and certainy the trans-fatty acids, partially hydrogenated oils, and other laboratory experiments, may be a bad thing. Make sure you get a majority of your fats from mono and poly unsaturated sources, like fruits and nuts. > I can see the logic of carb limiting... as I've learned > here..... but does one forget abt worrying abt fats? > > Example.... instead of eating egg beaters like I've always done (no > fats just egg whites).... do I now start eating whole eggs? IMHO, losing weight is more important than worrying about blood lipids - in the short run. Why? Because losing weight has so many benefits, it overwhelms any minor influence the extra fats will have on blood chemistry (assuming dietary fat isn't the cause of your poor blood lipid levels). I, for example, can eat absolutely zero fat and my blood lipids won't drop - only medicine affects it. > IMHO, losing weight is more important than worrying about blood lipids > - in the short run. Why? Because losing weight has so many benefits, > it overwhelms any minor influence the extra fats will have on blood > chemistry (assuming dietary fat isn't the cause of your poor blood > lipid levels). I'm not sure why you'd recommend this. I haven't seen anything the OP has said to indicate he/she is overweight. Presumably, weight loss is not a useful intervention for high LDL levels in those at ideal weight or below. Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ > I'm not sure why you'd recommend this. I haven't seen anything the > OP has said to indicate he/she is overweight. Presumably, weight > loss is not a useful intervention for high LDL levels in those at > ideal weight or below. Hmmm... OK, for normal-weight people, ignore me :-) >I'm not sure why you'd recommend this. I haven't seen anything the OP >has said to indicate he/she is overweight. Presumably, weight loss is >not a useful intervention for high LDL levels in those at ideal weight >or below. well I'm a bit overweight I'm 5' 11" and weigh 200 lbs have small frame so should weight probably 170lb plus I have that pot belly that all the media claims is indicative of heart disease. Not a bad pot belly.... but its there. IOW..that's where my body stores its fat. If you were to look at me Id look skinny and healthy.... but in reality my BMI is probably too high for my size and weight But the good news is I HAVE been exercising religiously and watching food intake and have lost maybe 10 lbs so far >>But if you already looked at the labels and saw that skim milk didn't >>have fewer carbs than full-fat, why did you ask: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > supposed to forget abt fats on low crab diets > completely? That is covered in the Atkins book, explicitly. If you eliminate carbs and fat, then the only things you can consume that have calories are proteins (plant or animal) and alcohol. Do you want to have a diet of eating meat and beans and drinking spirits with grain alcohol? Please read a little. Don't hope that strangers will type everything you ought to have read in a book. > Do you want to have a diet of eating meat and beans and drinking spirits > with grain alcohol? Hrm, the "Fillet Mignon and Tequilla Shooter diet?" Sign me up. I think I can sustain that. You can keep the beans. > Does it hurt to restrict fat AND carbs? Or is one > supposed to forget abt fats on low crab diets > completely? I don't eat much crab at all, actually. "Hurt" might be too strong a word, but it's not very practical to cut both carbs and fat. When you first learn about the success of low-carbing, it seems like a way to hedge your bets: go low-carb for all the benefits people are seeing, but stay low-fat in case the status quo beliefs are right. It's also easier for someone to sell a low-carb book/website/product if it's also low-fat, or at least not high-fat. The Oprahs of the world might invite you to promote your low-carb-low-fat book, "101 Ways to Bake Skinless Chicken Breast"; but they aren't going to touch me and my book, "Buttered Ham for Health." The problem is, if you go low-carb and low-fat, all that's left is protein (or starvation). The math is simple as always: if you get no carbs or fat at all, you'll need 500g of daily protein to maintain a standard 2000 calorie diet. Considering that the highest level of protein required according to the pro-protein book "Protein Power" is 120g/day, 500g is a boatload of protein! Of course, you're not talking zero carbs or fat, so maybe you'd only need 400g of protein, or 300g. That's still a heck of a lot. The problem with *that* is that once your body has used the 60-120g of protein -- depending on your lean body mass and rate of activity -- that it needs for rebuilding muscle and good stuff like that, any or all of the extra protein may be converted to glucose. It won't come gushing into your blood stream as fast as if you'd gotten it from a bag of Skittles, but it's still ultimately glucose. An extra 100g of protein can produce as much as 58g of glucose -- certainly enough to throw you out of the low-carb range, once you add it to whatever carbs you're eating. That's why I say that at some point you have to take your own stand, based on your own reading, observation, and judgment. You can't really have it both ways, although you can hedge a bit. (More on that below.) > My blood fats run high....am on statins.... the thing > I'm trying to do is alter lifestyle to get OFF statins > or severely reduce need for it > > BUT..... we are told over and over to limit fat > intake... doctor tells me this , etc Doctors tell us many things; some of them are actually true. I don't know enough about statins to know how they affect low-carbing, though others here probably do. I do know that many low-carbers have been able to reduce or eliminate drugs for things like blood pressure and cholesterol, after sticking with the diet for a while. > I can see the logic of carb limiting... as I've learned > here..... but does one forget abt worrying abt fats? > > Example.... instead of eating egg beaters like I've > always done (no fats just egg whites).... do I now > start eating whole eggs? In general, yes. Successful low-carbing in one sentence: Get enough protein to meet the needs of your lean body mass, keep your carbs low enough to stay in glucagon-driven mode most of the time, and fill in the rest of the calories you need to survive with fat. When you do the math, you realize that's a lot more fat than you were taught to eat (unless you learned about diet before 1960). That's when you have to make a choice. That doesn't mean you have to go bacon-wild, though, and start frying your eggs in a half-inch of lard every morning like I do. If it's scary, start small. Get plenty of the fats that even your doctor would probably admit are healthy, like oily fish and olive oil. It's ok if your protein is a bit higher than you need for now; you just don't want it super-high. When you go back to your doctor in 4-6 months and see how much your blood numbers have improved, you can get more adventurous about fats in your diet then. And read the book(s)! SignatureAaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz >>Does it hurt to restrict fat AND carbs? Or is one >>supposed to forget abt fats on low crab diets [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >>SNIP> > And read the book(s)! Aaron Don't forget that in his first post on this thread, he said he had read the books. Here it is below: > Hi all... > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Advice? Possibly he need to be told to understand what he as read. Possibly, he is lying all along. me@privacy.net is a fake address used by various "interesting" people, for "interesting" purposes. me is the reverse of "em", but that could be only a coincidence. At any rate, you probably can't really help "me@privacy.net". m...@privacy.net wrote: > >But if you already looked at the labels and saw that skim milk didn't > >have fewer carbs than full-fat, why did you ask: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Does it hurt to restrict fat AND carbs? Dude. Stand up. Face the nearest book store. Go get at least one of the popular low carb books. Come back home. Read it. Seriously. ASLDC is for support, but that doesn't extend to reading the book for you. Yes it hurts to restrict both. Would you rather get the science behind how the hormones work on the topic, or a pointer to the chapter in the book of your choice? Thing is, the good books on the topic will say stuff you won't want to believe. It is necessary to step out in faith and try it. So much of the information going around about diet is so badly wrong you'll need to get over your beliefs like this. > Or is one > supposed to forget abt fats on low crab diets > completely? Oh, a typo about crabs. Yum. Seriously, you need to read this in the books. You've been in this discsusion for a while now. There's no such thing as forgetting about anything completely - It's all about right sizing. > My blood fats run high....am on statins.... the thing > I'm trying to do is alter lifestyle to get OFF statins > or severely reduce need for it Since blood fats are caused by high carb diets, dietary fat at levels specified by low carb diets don't cause it. > BUT..... we are told over and over to limit fat > intake... doctor tells me this , etc Right. And it's all a load of crap. The blind leading the blind by repeating sincerely believed falsehoods. > I can see the logic of carb limiting... as I've learned > here..... but does one forget abt worrying abt fats? Book. Read. Immediately. Seriously. > Example.... instead of eating egg beaters like I've > always done (no fats just egg whites).... do I now > start eating whole eggs? Absolutely. "Eggs. Nature's most nearly perfect food." m...@privacy.net wrote: > I currently have low glycemic bread, Not for early use. Maybe freeze for later, maybe toss. > rolled oatmeal, It'll last and it can be used in recipes. Consider if you want to be at a carb quota around 50 but don't want to eat root veggies - oatmeal at breakfast works for that. > non-fat milk, Waste product of cream production. Foist it off on some unsuspecting low fatter. Or make your own cheese, but who knows how to do that in small quantites ... > some soy milk, Might be usable in recipes. > pomegranate juice, Have you ever brewed your own wine? The yeast converts the sugar into alcohol. Hobby time! > ect Your list goes on? Yeah, mine did when I had been low carbing under a month. > Should Throw all that out? > > Bottom line...don't eat this stuff? It took me practice before I retrained myself what to pay attention to in the grocery store. So shopping went from easy before i started to hard and then after practice to easy again. >> I currently have low glycemic bread, > >Not for early use. Maybe freeze for later, maybe toss. what abt this kind of bread? http://www.foodforlife.com/ >>>I currently have low glycemic bread, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://www.foodforlife.com/ We threw it out; it was gross. Susan m...@privacy.net wrote: > >> I currently have low glycemic bread, > > >Not for early use. Maybe freeze for later, maybe toss. > > what abt this kind of bread? > http://www.foodforlife.com/ Have you read the book yet? Have you read the carb ladder list yet? Have you looked on the ingredients list of the bread and compared it against the carb ladder yet? The bread is made out of ground up grass seeds, where do they appear on the carb ladder and what's your current rung on the carb ladder? This isn't a difficult process - Compare with the carb ladder. Grains, near the end of the list. > I currently have low glycemic bread, rolled oatmeal, > non-fat milk, some soy milk, pomegranate juice, ect > Should Throw all that out? > Bottom line...don't eat this stuff? Seriously, if you think you might really want to do this, get a couple of the popular low-carb books and read them. It sounds like you're shooting in the dark, and that's not a good way to hit your target. I've picked up all the books in my low-carb collection for $2 or less at thrift stores, and your local library should also have the common ones. Even if you end up deciding not to do low-carb, you're out maybe $5 at most and were able to make an educated decision for yourself. There's more to this than just "eat this and don't eat that." The Atkins plan comes close to that for the first two weeks, but even it expands after that point. There are many foods that are fine, as long as you don't eat more than a certain amount. One peach is fine for me (if it's my only carb source in a meal); two peaches aren't. Getting the high-carb foods out of your cabinets is a great way to get started, but you still have to know how to eat all the low-to-medium-carb foods. Best of luck, SignatureAaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz >>>So you have no breads, cereal, ice creams, nothing like >>>that in your house at all? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > carbing. Curious if there was SOME carbs in the > kitchen It would be virtually impossible to not have SOME carbs in the kitchen. Even green vegetables have a few carbs. You give the impression of some interesting form of a Kook. Interesting, but a kook nevertheless. Hopefully, in your next expedition into newsgroups, you will find a more appreciative audience. > It would be virtually impossible to not have SOME carbs in the kitchen. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Hopefully, in your next expedition into newsgroups, you will find a more > appreciative audience. This is a support group, it says so in the header. The OP came here after I suggested low carb as an alternative to statin use for reducing CVD risk. He's got a lot of questions, some of them very naive, but he seems to be trying to take the help offered and apply it. That's what I'm here for, I don't know what your deal is. Susan >You give the impression of some interesting form of a Kook. Interesting, >but a kook nevertheless. since when did asking a question make someone a kook If I am a kook I want to be a healthy kook I'm trying to get a sense of what everyone else is doing as far as shedding carbs.... in other words...just how extreme have people gone personally at it? I know I can shed some carbs.... but not sure its realistic for me to think I can shed everything.....I do like an occasional ice cream cone At any rate.... if my questions offend you.... I apologize..... again just getting a sense for just what "limit" I should/can place on carb avoidance > I know I can shed some carbs.... but not sure its > realistic for me to think I can shed everything.....I > do like an occasional ice cream cone I have the occasional ice cream, either Edy's no sugar added or one of the regular Edy's that's only 15 grams per half cup. Also, Blue Bunny makes some really good no sugar added ice creams. > At any rate.... if my questions offend you.... I > apologize..... again just getting a sense for just what > "limit" I should/can place on carb avoidance Don't apologize; you're using the group for it's intended use. Susan >> I know I can shed some carbs.... but not sure its >> realistic for me to think I can shed everything.....I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >the regular Edy's that's only 15 grams per half cup. Also, Blue Bunny >makes some really good no sugar added ice creams. One thing I do know I can NOT tolerate are the artificial sweeteners based on sugar alcohols such as sorbitol! Sorbitol wreaks havoc with my stomach!! > One thing I do know I can NOT tolerate are the > artificial sweeteners based on sugar alcohols such as > sorbitol! > > Sorbitol wreaks havoc with my stomach!! Then you can have Splenda sweetened stuff or a small serving of some regular flavors of Edy's. Frankly, your focus on replacing your high carb foods with substitutes for bad habits rather than moving to healthier foods that are naturally low carb doesn't bode well for your success. Susan <me@privacy.net> wrote in message > One thing I do know I can NOT tolerate are the > artificial sweeteners based on sugar alcohols such as > sorbitol! GOOD THING to know! ;) Just because they are in your kitchen doesn't mean you eat them if there are other people in the house. Rice, potatoes, noodles, don't tempt me at all but they keep my SO from wasting away completely. No, it isn't fair that he is so skinny but that's life. For ice cream, get yourself some Breyers CarbSmart, 5 g carb/half cup. Very good ice cream. | since when did asking a question make someone a kook | [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] | apologize..... again just getting a sense for just what | "limit" I should/can place on carb avoidance > Just because they are in your kitchen doesn't mean you eat them if > there are other people in the house. Rice, potatoes, noodles, don't > tempt me... Same here. The rest of the family are carrying on as usual. I'm really quite pleased with myself that I've been able to resist the temptation. >>You give the impression of some interesting form of a Kook. Interesting, >>but a kook nevertheless. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > realistic for me to think I can shed everything.....I > do like an occasional ice cream cone You may be constitutionally or willpower wise unsuited to this diet, and if so, you are better off trying to find something more to your capabilities. Have you looked into South Beach or Zone diets to see if they allow you to eat what you like? I find that if I take an extra long bike ride, say 20 miles rather than 10 miles, I appear to work off the carbs from a small ice cream cone. Do you exercise to aid in burning up the food energy you consume? > At any rate.... if my questions offend you.... I > apologize..... again just getting a sense for just what > "limit" I should/can place on carb avoidance Low carb generally means, after induction and major weight loss, living on 50 to 150 grams of carbohydrate per day. How much is something that your body and some part of your metabolism work out to allowing. As described in most books on low carbohydrate dieting. Than is 50X4=200 calories per day to 150X4=600 calories per day of carbohydrates. (4 calories per gram for carbohydrates) You can find this information from whatever low carbohydrate book you are "reading". 1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book 2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book 3) Don't Diet Without Supplemental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins book 4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other) > I'm trying to get a sense of what everyone else is > doing as far as shedding carbs.... in other [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > apologize..... again just getting a sense for just what > "limit" I should/can place on carb avoidance The problem is... no one else can tell you what will help you. For instance, people low-carbing for weight loss often do the Atkins diet, where you start at 20g carb/day and every week or two increase the carbs by 5g/day until you stop losing weight. The level of carbs each person ends up eating for weight loss varies, as does the amount needed for maintenance. People low-carbing for bg control eat however much carb gives them the best bg readings via testing with their meter. I got the best readings at 50g/day, so that's my personal limit; but it seems to me most low-carbing diabetics eat a lot more carb than I do. There's a number of ways to go about it depending on why you're doing it. I'd recommend the book Protein Power to you as a very good explanation of low-carbing that does incldue more info than most on lipids (since Susan said you were low-carbing as an alternative to statins). There's also a number of ways to start low-carbing. The Atkins method, very strict low-carbing, works best for me. I have very strong cravings when I begin low-carbing and get over them fastest by just getting through the withdrawal as fast as possible. Other people start more gradually, cutting out the "white stuff" - sugar, flour, rice, potatoes, white breads, etc. That is a big improvement over the typical diet, but it'd never work for me as I'd still be craving big-time until I went way low for a while. Low-carbing doesn't mean no ice cream ever. It just means sugar-free ice cream. But that's not an every-day item, of course. In over a decade of low-carbing, I've bought or made sugar-free ice cream maybe 10 times total. You seem to be wondering what this diet you're committing to looks like. Yesterday, I had leftover bacon for breakfast, a cream cheese & chive omelet for lunch, and eggplant paremsan with a side of stir-fried red bell peppers, onions and garlic for dinner. The day before I had a protein powder shake for breakfast, cottage cheese and blueberries for lunch, and a sliced tomato topped with bacon and mayo for dinner. Today, I had leftover eggplant parmesan and stirfried veggies for breakfast. Lunch will probably be cottage cheese and watermelon and dinner will be a creamy chicken crockpot dish with a salad. Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ >Low-carbing doesn't mean no ice cream ever. It just means sugar-free >ice cream. Ok but all the sugar free ice cream I've looked at locally has sugar alcohols in it ALONG with Splenda Do you know of any brands that JUST have splenda? My stomach can not tolerate sugar alcohols like sorbitol and such > Do you know of any brands that JUST have splenda? Making ice cream isn't that hard; it's even possible to do so without an ice cream machine. (heavy cream+splenda, whip it, fold in other ingredients, freeze). > My stomach can not tolerate sugar alcohols like sorbitol and such Have you tried erythritol? It seems to be the exception, most (if not all) people can tolerate it just fine, yet still not treat it as a carb. >> Do you know of any brands that JUST have splenda? > >Making ice cream isn't that hard; it's even possible to do so without >an ice cream machine. (heavy cream+splenda, whip it, fold in other >ingredients, freeze). OK >> My stomach can not tolerate sugar alcohols like sorbitol and such > >Have you tried erythritol? It seems to be the exception, most (if not >all) people can tolerate it just fine, yet still not treat it as a >carb. No..haven't tried that one But all the low carb ice creams I've seen always have Splenda in them BUT also have sorbitol, etc > But all the low carb ice creams I've seen always have > Splenda in them BUT also have sorbitol, etc I think they pretty much have to have the sugar alcohols to keep the ice cream soft. Without something in there to cause the emulsification that gives ice cream its consistency, you'd get a frozen brick. They could probably leave out the sugar alcohols, add more Splenda, and use gelatin or something to fix that, but then it'd be even more expensive than it already tends to be. Making your own is always an option, though, and there have been several recipes and methods for that posted in the last couple weeks. SignatureAaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz >> Low-carbing doesn't mean no ice cream ever. It just means sugar-free >> ice cream. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > stomach can not tolerate sugar alcohols like sorbitol > and such First of all, there are different sugar alcohols, and some people who react badly to one do not react badly to another. And secondly, this ice cream has no sugar alcohols at all and only the sweetener you choose: http://ornery-geeks.org/text/cooking/specialrecipes/vanillaicecream.asp Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ > I know I can shed some carbs.... but not sure its > realistic for me to think I can shed everything.....I > do like an occasional ice cream cone you know, there are different kind of LOW CARB PROGRAMS. have you looked into the CARBOHYDRATE ADDICTS PROGRAM? it allows you to "schedule" your sweet carbs! http://www.carbohydrateaddicts.com/ > Was just curious as to how dedicated most are to low > carbing. Curious if there was SOME carbs in the > kitchen If you're not 100% dedicated then low-carb won't work. There's room for error if you're on a calorie counting diet. Consider that as an alternative. Low-carb diets aren't right for everyone. If you're going to have that "oh, once a week or so" cheat of eating pasta or a sandwich with bread, then low carb *definitely* will not work for you. Losing weight and keeping it off means that you change your eating habits for life. Take a look around at your alternatives. Read a book or two. Get other people's opinions. Take your time in choosing a plan, and when you do chose a new way of eating for yourself, commit yourself to sticking with it. My .02 is that low-carb is both the easiest and the most stringent choice of all. You can't eat your cake and low-carb too ;-) But you can make and sometimes buy some very good substitutes for cake. | If you're not 100% dedicated then low-carb won't work. | [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] | My .02 is that low-carb is both the easiest and the most stringent | choice of all. You can't eat your cake and low-carb too ;-) >Low-carb diets aren't right for everyone. If you're going to have that "oh, >once a week or so" cheat of eating pasta or a sandwich with bread, then low >carb *definitely* will not work for you. why not? isn't reducing sugar and carbs worthwhile even if not to the point YOU do? I mean as someone else said even some carbs in veggies and such? > why not? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I mean as someone else said even some carbs in veggies > and such? I disagree with Em. Your goal is to improve lipids, and every bit you reduce your carbs will help, even with occasional cheats, unless they trigger more carb cravings for you. Susan > why not? Most of the benefits of LC dieting revolve around staying in or near ketosis, and a one-day binge can kick you out of ketosis for many days (depending on many factors). A one day binge can even restart the insulin roller coaster. You'll get much better results if your carb intake is consistent over time. m...@privacy.net wrote: > >Low-carb diets aren't right for everyone. If you're going to have that "oh, > >once a week or so" cheat of eating pasta or a sandwich with bread, then low > >carb *definitely* will not work for you. > > why not? Because for many of us eating those foods trigger an addictive behavior pattern. It's too much like telling an alcoholic "oh, once a week or so" cheat of a glass of wine won't kick them off their 12-step plan. > isn't reducing sugar and carbs worthwhile even if not > to the point YOU do? True, but that won't trigger loss with the sort of rate and lack of hunger most want. You want a low calorie diet with low calorie rules, do that. > I mean as someone else said even some carbs in veggies > and such? Mental games like this are called "make-wrong games". Do not compare broccoli and pasta as if since both have carbs they must be identical. Type matters. Read the carb ladder and use it - Move up it and at some point on it the foods will start giving you problems. That's the point you stop and consider further items un-food for you. Where you'll be on the ladder when that happens, no one can say (most especially you yourself can't say). |
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