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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / August 2007lessons learned
Just finished my little two day meat fast. Didn't seem that a third day was necessary. Meat only for 24 hours seems to put my appetite in check. I was just dying for a salad, so I broke my meat fast. Had a great weigh-in today, 5.5 pounds down from yesterday. Water, of course. I think I've been carrying some around for a little more than the past week. That drops me a bit below the current goal line on my graph, and if a pound or two of that socks itself back on, I'll still be at/below that line on my chart. I've been keeping track of carbs, "the best I could". Over the past week or two I've eaten some meals out & had some questionable food. Jumbo hot dogs at the Queen Mary, salad dressing on my salads, and "the best I could do" in terms of ordering a main course and so forth. I can do an OK job of guessing how many carbs are in these foods, but there's no way to know for sure. Could there be some added sugar in that salad dressing? When they "brushed" that salmon with herbs & oil, did they fail to mention that they "brush" it with sugar too? Where those jumbo hot dogs really 3 carbs each, which was my best guess, or were there 7 or 10 carbs in those things due to fillers and whatever else? So, number one, saying that I tracked my carbs "the best I could" is a crock. "If I can't count it I won't eat it." That's gotta be Rule #1. I have a problem with cheese. Once I eat more than a couple ounces I start to crave it or something. It doesn't matter that 10oz of cheese is < 10 carbs. That's a lot of fricken cheese. "Wet" cheeses, like cottage cheese and sour cream are worse. I have the same problem with nuts. So rule #2 here is "buy trigger foods in small packages." No more two pound bricks of cheese in my fridge or 2lb tubs of cottage cheese. So, that's three things; enough for now. 1) If you can't count it don't eat it 2) Buy only small amounts of trigger foods 3) If things seem to be getting a little out of control, just eat meat for a couple days and get back on-track. One thing I will say that I'm doing real good with is resisting temptation. There's cake in the fridge, rice, popsicles in the freezer, etc. As long as I don't touch that stuff I'm fine. Just one bite, I know, will do me in, so I never take that one bite. > 1) If you can't count it don't eat it I disagree with this bit. I figure if I eat home and known foods 90%+ of the time, that's good. If I have to do "best guessing" eating out somewhere, well I'll do my best guessing. I'm not going to forsake traveling or holidays with family for the sake of low-carbing, sometimes the best I can do just has to be good enough. > 3) If things seem to be getting a little out of control, just eat meat > for a couple days and get back on-track. This *always* works if I've suffered carb-creep from being away from home. It's my favorite time to roast a turkey, just eat it by itself for a few days, then start making turkey salads and soups and adding other things in.  Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ Jackie Patti wrote in message <46d224dd$0$26700$470ef3ce@news.pa.net>... >If I have to do "best guessing" eating out somewhere, well I'll do my >best guessing. I'm not going to forsake traveling or holidays with >family for the sake of low-carbing, sometimes the best I can do just has >to be good enough. I totally agree with your post. :-) Cheri >> 1) If you can't count it don't eat it > > I disagree with this bit. I figure if I eat home and known foods 90%+ of > the time, that's good. I hear what you're saying, but I'm only six weeks into this low-carb way of eating (although I did low-cal for quite a while before making the switch). Had I used better judgement on the days I ate out, and maybe stuck to meat or something for the rest of the day, I probably wouldn't have had any problems. I don't want to foresake restaraunts and so forth, but at this point in my "transition" I think its a good idea to avoid these kinds of potential problems. In time I'll settle into this woe and become better at dealing with this kind of thing. For now, though, I do consider myself to be one hell of a carb addict (or something), and will go the route of abstinance. > roast a turkey, just eat it by itself for a few days, then start making > turkey salads and soups and adding other things in. How do you cook a whole turkey (or a chicken) without stuffing it? (That's the only way I've made turkey in the past.) I thought, by nature, all soups were pretty carby. Other than turkey and water, what do you put in? This sounds pretty good, actually. Would like to give it a shot. Thanks! Em 298/241/skinny >> roast a turkey, just eat it by itself for a few days, then start >> making turkey salads and soups and adding other things in. > > How do you cook a whole turkey (or a chicken) without stuffing it? > (That's the only way I've made turkey in the past.) Ummm... you DON'T stuff it. That's pretty much all there is to it. It cooks a bit quicker and it's a lot juicier cause stuffing pulls a lot of the flavor out. > I thought, by nature, all soups were pretty carby. Other than turkey and > water, what do you put in? You simmer the leftover carcass in water for a few hours, cool it, and then throw out the bones and such to yield a broth/meat mixture. Add some chopped celery, carrots, onions and parsley and simmer until it's soup. I leave off adding any salt as I like it served with Parmesan. Soup is only carby cause most of the canned varieties you can buy have noodles, rice or potatoes. Homemade soups are fine though. Google this group for lots of variations on the Italian sausage soup. It's awesome! My version: http://ornery-geeks.org/text/cooking/thirtydinners/italiansausagesoup.asp Last time I made it, I calculated it at less than 6g carb and 17g protein per cup of soup; half of that big batch is in the freezer. Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ > >> roast a turkey, just eat it by itself for a few days, then start > >> making turkey salads and soups and adding other things in. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cooks a bit quicker and it's a lot juicier cause stuffing pulls a lot of > the flavor out. For a roast whole chicken, I put a quartered onion in the main cavity, along with a branch of fresh rosemary. SignatureAF "Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team." --artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball >> > How do you cook a whole turkey (or a chicken) without stuffing it? >> > (That's the only way I've made turkey in the past.) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > For a roast whole chicken, I put a quartered onion in the main cavity, > along with a branch of fresh rosemary. A quartered lemon works pretty well too. There's also something called "beer-butt chicken," which is just what you'd think it is. Open a can of beer and "sit" the chicken on it so the beer goes up inside it. It should sit up on the beer can and two feet. Roast or grill the bird, and the steam boiling out of the can is supposed to help keep the chicken moist. I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can inside my food, but it does taste good. SignatureAaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz :: A quartered lemon works pretty well too. There's also something :: called "beer-butt chicken," which is just what you'd think it is. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] :: I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can :: inside my food, but it does taste good. I wonder if you transfer the beer to a glass of some type? > > For a roast whole chicken, I put a quartered onion in the main cavity, > > along with a branch of fresh rosemary. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > grill the bird, and the steam boiling out of the can is supposed to > help keep the chicken moist. In some drawer I have a little metal rack that a chicken gets set on. It is made several rods of black metal, maybe anodized. I've had the gadget for years before I ever heard of beer can chicken. I figure the steam from the beer should improve the flavor of the chicken, if the beer is good enough to drink. > I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can > inside my food, but it does taste good. That's why the cans are painted on the outside and coated with something shiney (and probably not heat resistant) on the inside. Whatever that paint stuff is, you get that instead of the metal. I'll take my metal rack over the can ... >> I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can >> inside my food, but it does taste good. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Whatever that paint stuff is, you get that instead of the metal. > I'll take my metal rack over the can ... I knew a guy who worked for Valspar, the paint company that produces the coating on the inside of cans. He gave me a lecture about it once. As I remember, he said it was a polymer only 1 micron thick...just something to keep the liquid from cannabalizing the aluminum. Heat resistant? I dunno. >>>I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can >>>inside my food, but it does taste good. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > remember, he said it was a polymer only 1 micron thick...just something to > keep the liquid from cannabalizing the aluminum. Heat resistant? I dunno. It would probably hold up on the inside coating as long as there was still a fair amount of beer liquid left. The temperature would be kept pretty near the boiling point of beer which is similar to that of water. If the beer can went dry, then coating stuff could disintegrate from the heat and lack of cooling liquid. If the beer cans go dry, the diners could disintegrate from the heat and lack of cooling liquid. > >>>I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can > >>>inside my food, but it does taste good. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > If the beer cans go dry, the diners could disintegrate from the heat and > lack of cooling liquid. As an experienced Beer Can Chicken cook, I will provide some information: 1- you empty half the beer (or whatever, it doesn't have to be beer), and it gets Very Hot 2- I have never had a problem with the paint peeling off the can. 3- I could not tell you about the lining, but it doesn't seem to be a problem. 4- If you "cork" the top of the chicken with a full head of garlic, yum. 5- The advantage to vertical roasting, over flat roasting, is that there is no down side to the chicken. What I mean is that you don't have any side that sits flat, and gets soggy with the chicken juices pooling. This problem is mitigated by the wire rack device, but eliminated by the can method (I have a beer can holding wire rack, that I can use without a beer can. I have also seen various platforms that have a cup in the center, so you don't have to use the can. 6- The skin on a BC Chicken is to die for. Like the best rotisserie chicken, that never had to sit in a bag or anything. To die for. 7- The meat stays VERY moist. And, if you are slick, nicely flavored. By slick I mean, put some aromatic spices in your liquid, and the aforementioned head of garlic (or an onion) at the neck hole. 8- As with all good roasted chickens (or grilled chickens), the key is in the rub, and rubbing beneath the skin. 9- Last thing: Can gets very hot, but I dunno that it's much over the point of boiling. I wouldn't want to touch it, but if you're doing this right, you are not cooking terribly hot. On the grill, it's indirect heat, so no fire directly below the can. Any rate, I highly recommend this technique. I have not horizontally roasted a chicken since I discovered it, and probably never will again. >>>>>I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can >>>>>inside my food, but it does taste good. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > and it > gets Very Hot Are you saying that the beer doesn't flavor the chicken, that water would be just as good? Or is there some benefit to seasonings or flavorings in the liquid? Would a liquid of water and soy sauce produce a different chicken taste, for example? I would ask about teriyaki sauce, but I don't think my spelling would be right. > 2- I have never had a problem with the paint peeling off the can. > 3- I could not tell you about the lining, but it doesn't seem to be a [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > roasted a chicken > since I discovered it, and probably never will again. > >>>>>I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can > >>>>>inside my food, but it does taste good. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > would be just as good? Or is there some benefit to seasonings or > flavorings in the liquid? Water would serve the purpose of moisture, but beer gives it a nice flavor. Depending on the beer, you can get a lot or a little of the flavor. I find wine makes a nice fluid for this. Ditto fruit juices. Did a nice papaya juice + jerk rub chicken that was mildly fruity and very spicy. Very nice. Depends on the seasoning. If it doesn't smell like anything, probably not going to impart much taste. It's key that you use stuff that has a lot of aroma. If you want spices that aren't gonna give up flavor, put em in a rub, and be sure to rub under the skin. > Would a liquid of water and soy sauce produce a different chicken taste, > for example? I would ask about teriyaki sauce, but I don't think my > spelling would be right. I don't see why not. Some garlic, ginger, and maybe I dunno, green onions. Soy sauce, rice (or other mild) vinegar and maybe some water. Nice. >> As an experienced Beer Can Chicken cook, I will provide some >> information: >> 1- you empty half the beer (or whatever, it doesn't have to be >> beer), and it gets Very Hot > Are you saying that the beer doesn't flavor the chicken, that water > would be just as good? Or is there some benefit to seasonings or > flavorings in the liquid? A guy I know tried non-alcoholic beer, and he said he could tell a difference, that it wasn't as good. Maybe the alcohol has some effect. Hollywood, thanks for all the ideas. I'll be trying this more often from now on! SignatureAaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz > A guy I know tried non-alcoholic beer, and he said he could tell a > difference, that it wasn't as good. Maybe the alcohol has some > effect. Maybe NA Beer just isn't as good? I've done it with fruit juices, so I don't think it's the alcohol. > I hear what you're saying, but I'm only six weeks into this low-carb way of > eating (although I did low-cal for quite a while before making the switch). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > point in my "transition" I think its a good idea to avoid these kinds of > potential problems. You learn with practice and it gets easier. Let it progress with time. > In time I'll settle into this woe and become better at dealing with this > kind of thing. For now, though, I do consider myself to be one hell of a > carb addict (or something), and will go the route of abstinance. Eventually the question becomes at what point are the foods that should be abstained from? Cake it's easy to figure out. Carrots, not nearly so easy to figure out. > > roast a turkey, just eat it by itself for a few days, then start making > > turkey salads and soups and adding other things in. > > How do you cook a whole turkey (or a chicken) without stuffing it? (That's > the only way I've made turkey in the past.) Deep fry doesn't include stuffing. Stuffing of celery and cauliflower is low carb. Roast without stuffing isn't any different from roast with stuffing except slightly different timing. > I thought, by nature, all soups were pretty carby. Time to read more recipes! Even canned soups include some that aren't all that bad unless you;re very low. > Other than turkey and water, what do you put in? Bird or any sort, broth of any sort, herbs. Since low carb veggies get soft quickly, they go in an hour before serving not early in the cooking. Later various root veggies can be considered depending on how it goes. >> In time I'll settle into this woe and become better at dealing with this >> kind of thing. For now, though, I do consider myself to be one hell of a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > should be abstained from? Cake it's easy to figure out. Carrots, > not nearly so easy to figure out. Yesterday I found what might be one of those "intolerances" of which you speak. Around 6pm I had two small bags of peanuts, 5 carbs ea. By 10:30 I felt bloated and had to let my belt out a notch. This morning my physical weight was up 2.5 pounds from yesterday. (Water. I know) Earlier in the day, maybe 2pm, I had some corned beef from the deli. It could have been that but I doubt it. Overall for the day, depending on whether there were a few carbs in the corned beef (which I doubt), I stayed between 20 and 25 carbs for the day. I'm going to take a shot at some filberts after these two pounds are gone. I think I can get them up at trader joes. I'm starting to look at this more like an experiment than a diet, and that's a good thing for somebody (like me) who tends to get a bit obsessed. -- On another note, I'll probably roast a chicken this w/e if it isn't too hot. I also have frozen raspberries, h. cream, etc. ready to go if there's a heat wave. Thanks to all on the recipe advice re. both things. > Yesterday I found what might be one of those "intolerances" of which you > speak. Around 6pm I had two small bags of peanuts, 5 carbs ea. By 10:30 I > felt bloated and had to let my belt out a notch. This morning my physical > weight was up 2.5 pounds from yesterday. (Water. I know) I like to do a "3 strikes and you're out" plan to confirm an intolerance. Now that you think peanuts are a suspect, avoid them for a month or two then try them again under different circumstances. Then another month or two later a third attempt. By then you can be quite certain. > Earlier in the day, maybe 2pm, I had some corned beef from the deli. It > could have been that but I doubt it. That's the deal - Two unknowns so you can't pick one and be certain. It's a guess, so confirm that guess by experiment. > I'm starting to look at this more > like an experiment than a diet, and that's a good thing for somebody (like > me) who tends to get a bit obsessed. Atkins from day 15 to start of Maintenance is one big sequence of experiments. The end result is a fully customized plan tuned to how your own body reacts. Lots of work to do it completely by the directions. > > Yesterday I found what might be one of those "intolerances" of which you > > speak. Around 6pm I had two small bags of peanuts, 5 carbs ea. By 10:30 I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > different circumstances. Then another month or two later > a third attempt. By then you can be quite certain. Be aggressive/conservative about what you suspect; be cautious/experimental about what you know. Start with a guess but figure at least some of your guesses are going to be wrong. It's a principle that goes all through the Atkins process. Start out very low then move up until you fall out of ketosis to find your CCLL - Start conservative and experiment to find your custom ideal intake. Start out with a very restricted list of allowed foods then add one back in using the carb ladder and watch for ill effect - Start conservative and experiment to find your food intolerances. Both halves of the system assume that pre-conceived notions aren't the way to find your ideal foods and that experiment is the way. > Earlier in the day, maybe 2pm, I had some corned beef from the > deli. It could have been that but I doubt it. > > Overall for the day, depending on whether there were a few carbs in > the corned beef (which I doubt), I stayed between 20 and 25 carbs > for the day. The corned beef may have more carbs than you think. I've bought corned beef in a bag that you cook at home, and some has injected sugar solution and some doesn't. Almost any processed meat will have some carbs in it, though it may round down to 0g/serving. I'd agree that the bloated feeling more likely came from the peanuts, though. I get the same thing, but it usually doesn't hit me unless I have them a few days in a row. SignatureAaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz > How do you cook a whole turkey (or a chicken) without stuffing it? > (That's the only way I've made turkey in the past.) The same way, but without stuffing it. > I thought, by nature, all soups were pretty carby. Other than turkey > and water, what do you put in? Broccoli, cauliflower, green or yellow beans, leeks, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, Swiss chard, peppers, shirataki noodles, mushrooms, a little wild rice, spices, herbs, etc. If you need to thicken it, cream works. I recently got some guar gum for a thickener, but I haven't had a chance to use it yet. SignatureAaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz > Just finished my little two day meat fast. Didn't seem that a third day was > necessary. Meat only for 24 hours seems to put my appetite in check. I was [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > if a pound or two of that socks itself back on, I'll still be at/below that > line on my chart. Possibility - You ate something that made you hungry and as soon as the cravings for it went away. Sometimes intolerance reactions that include cravings also include bloating. You might be able to pick a specific food that caused a problem for you (dairy?), eat some, see if it triggers water gain again. > I've been keeping track of carbs, "the best I could". Over the past week or > two I've eaten some meals out & had some questionable food. Jumbo hot dogs > at the Queen Mary, salad dressing on my salads, and "the best I could do" in > terms of ordering a main course and so forth. Over time, the best you can do includes more and more. > I can do an OK job of guessing how many carbs are in these foods, but > there's no way to know for sure. Could there be some added sugar in that > salad dressing? Ask for oil and vinegar on the side and say goodbye to that issue. > When they "brushed" that salmon with herbs & oil, did they > fail to mention that they "brush" it with sugar too? Probably. > Where those jumbo hot > dogs really 3 carbs each, which was my best guess, or were there 7 or 10 > carbs in those things due to fillers and whatever else? For hot dogs I think 3-4 tends to be worst case as long as you ditched the bun. I often eat pepperoni with lunch yet I tend to get kosher hot dogs - The kosher ones never seem to have a carb count near 0.5 and they taste better. > So, number one, > saying that I tracked my carbs "the best I could" is a crock. "If I can't > count it I won't eat it." That's gotta be Rule #1. And in time you'll be able to count more stuff. So understand that this becomes a sliding rule. > I have a problem with cheese. Once I eat more than a couple ounces I start > to crave it or something. It doesn't matter that 10oz of cheese is < 10 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > 2) Buy only small amounts of trigger foods No. Figure out what your trigger foods are and avoid them. The more obvious the trigger the more important to practice complete avoidance but understand that carb counts are only half of the conceptual framework of Atkins. The other half is that food intolerances trigger addictive behavior patterns. A less intense trigger (I call them "slippery slope foods") will chip away at you dedication but in the long run it still runs against you. There are going to be plenty of foods you can eat and not that many you need to avoid. Celebrate the good ones and learn good eating without the bad ones. One thing I discovered about nuts - For me it is by type of nut not just all nuts. Cashews and peanuts I'll eat until they are gone no matter the size of the container - While a 1 oz bag might not be so bad a 20 oz jar is a very bad idea. But walnuts, pecans, filberts and so on I can have a handful, put the container away, and not touch it again that day. So those are the types of nuts I get. Experiment a bit to see if similar applies to you. > 3) If things seem to be getting a little out of control, just eat meat for a > couple days and get back on-track. No need to go more restrictive than the Induction list, though given your comments about dairy I think Induction minus dairy. > One thing I will say that I'm doing real good with is resisting temptation. > There's cake in the fridge, rice, popsicles in the freezer, etc. As long as > I don't touch that stuff I'm fine. Just one bite, I know, will do me in, so > I never take that one bite. The temptation of high carb foods never, ever, goes away. The Atkins process teaches what each of us can and can't eat if we follow the process, and that's much more accurate than our guesses as to what those foods will be. So follow the process. |
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