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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / September 2007Alternate Day Fasting Diet, next "breakthrough"?
Currently just mice have used this diet in lab studies. I wonder how long it will be till "Woman's World" magazine reports on this kind of study as the new "Breakthrough" in dieting. Somebody can have some kind of small scale people study finished in a few months, so maybe we'll see some magazine advocating this kind of thing in less than a year. IIRC, there have been several eating plans that cycle between feast and famine in the short term. ====================================================== http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/index.php?feed=Science&article=UPI-1-20070918-18 345500-bc-us-alternatefasting.xml Alternate-day fasting may shrink fat cells BERKELEY, Calif., Sept. 18 (UPI) -- Alternate-day fasting -- fasting or eating half as much as usual every other day -- may shrink fat cells, a University of California, Berkeley study found. On the fasting day, people consume no-calorie beverages, tea, coffee and sugar-free gum and they drink as much water as they need. Researcher Krista Varady and colleagues studied the effects of alternate-day fasting on 24 male mice for four weeks. To assess the impact of alternate-day fasting on the health of the mice, the scientists not only tested mice that followed and didn't follow an alternate-day fasting diet, but they also studied mice that followed the diet only partially: a group of mice consumed 50 percent of their regular diet every other day and another consumed 75 percent of their regular diet every other day. The study, published in the October issue of the Journal of Lipid Research, found mice that followed the complete alternate-day fasting diet lost weight and that the fat cells of both the 100 percent alternate-day fasting and 50 percent alternate-day fasting groups shrunk by more than half and by 35 percent, respectively. :: Currently just mice have used this diet in lab studies. :: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] :: IIRC, there have been several eating plans that cycle between feast :: and famine in the short term. I know that if I overeat one day I can compensate for it by undereating the next day. If I go too far, I don't eat at all. Drinking all of those liquids does help suppress the hunger (over the short term, at least) that never really seems to come, which many people fear. It might also be that with this cycling of feast/famine, one keeps the body in a state where it reacts differently to the lack of food, as thus keeps the fires burning, which might not occur in a more steady-state weight-loss condition. With people, though, I think it still comes down to YMMV....some people might simply find they can manage to undereat better if they know they can eat more food the next day, thus ending up with a net two-day deficit. > :: Currently just mice have used this diet in lab studies. > :: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > might simply find they can manage to undereat better if they know they can > eat more food the next day, thus ending up with a net two-day deficit. I wonder if alternation with "starvation days -- fasting days" one doesn't somehow promote the function of the ketone metabolism. This would be a way to "rev up the motor" and thus cause additional fat burning. However, the lack of food calorie intake on the "starvation day" is likely to show up in either metabolism of fat for energy or protein for that period. There is most likely a net decrease of "calories in" in the balance when averaged ov er time. Paleo Principles...... Before agriculture, the input of food could cycle more on a day to day basis or week to week basis. So, one might be able to make an argument that periodic fasting is more true to the evolutionary diet situation -- and therefore somehow healthy because of that. Jim :: Paleo Principles...... Before agriculture, the input of food could :: cycle more on a day to day basis or week to week basis. So, one :: might be able to make an argument that periodic fasting is more true :: to the :: evolutionary diet situation -- and therefore somehow healthy because :: of that. Yep. Alternating between significant periods of hunger and being well fed is likely a more healthy state than walking about being overfed all the time (obviously). I think many people have a hard time staying at equilibrium in terms of food intake, especially with all of the inticements around these days. As animals, I think we need to struggle for food (most all other creatures do so) but instead we have almost an iron-clad guarantee of face-stuffing everyday, if we so choose. > > It might also be that with this cycling of feast/famine, one keeps the body > > in a state where it reacts differently to the lack of food, as thus keeps [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > doesn't somehow promote the function of the ketone metabolism. This > would be a way to "rev up the motor" and thus cause additional fat burning. It would be so nice to think this. Consider the extra high levels of ketonuria in the first week or two of Atkins Induction. Shouldn't a cycle trigger that regularly? The trouble is experience of folks who do cycle suggests that the more times they cycle the easier it gets and the less the initial ketonuria overshoot. So I think the body adjusts somehow for most people. Consider Roger's post elsewhere in the thread where he mentions it gets easier for him over time as he goes in and out of ketosis. Yet wight lifters do cycle and are able to drive their body fat percentage much lower than most of us target. > However, the lack of food calorie intake on the "starvation day" is > likely to show up in either metabolism of fat for energy or protein for > that period. There is most likely a net decrease of "calories in" in > the balance when averaged ov er time. Calories count. As long as metabolism does not drop to match, fewer calories in means more lost weight. One idea of cycling is it should prevent the metabolism from dropping to match. > Paleo Principles...... Before agriculture, the input of food could cycle > more on a day to day basis or week to week basis. So, one might be able > to make an argument that periodic fasting is more true to the > evolutionary diet situation -- and therefore somehow healthy because of > that. Some sort of cleansing had been claimed for fasting so maybe that. There are also claims of spiritual benefits. Humans like all animals are definitely evolved to handle periodic fasts, whether that implies fasts are beneficial or not can't be determined that simply. >>>It might also be that with this cycling of feast/famine, one keeps the body >>>in a state where it reacts differently to the lack of food, as thus keeps [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > are definitely evolved to handle periodic fasts, whether that implies > fasts are beneficial or not can't be determined that simply. It would be hard to run a study of this. Periodic fasters are probably hard to recruit. And the fasting would cause one to have to make assumptions on how to define an appropriate overall calorie input. Then there are assumptions needed to define a comparison group. Thanks, Jim > :: IIRC, there have been several eating plans that cycle between feast > :: and famine in the short term. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > liquids does help suppress the hunger (over the short term, at least) that > never really seems to come, which many people fear. The usual caveat - Diet support groups tend to get visitors who have eating disorders. Anyone with bulimia or anorexia should never be encouraged to fast. I think caloric intake needs to be averaged across several days or even a week. When I count my intake bounces like Roger writes but the weekly average hovers in a small range. > It might also be that with this cycling of feast/famine, one keeps the body > in a state where it reacts differently to the lack of food, as thus keeps > the fires burning, which might not occur in a more steady-state weight-loss > condition. Some of the hormones in the various feedback loops use the recent highest dietary intake somehow. For example the type of leptin released by the liver somehow reflects the highest one day carb intake of the last couple of months. Eat a high carb day and you can eat excessively low carb for weeks without cutting leptin levels. T3 thyroid follows a similar pattern over weeks - It's why weight lifters do cyclical plans. Changing what's eaten seems to work better and cause fewer stalls than eating closely the same foods and same levels every day. I wish there were better data on this topic so I could switch from "seems to" to "really does". I've broken stalls of my own by cycling levels and it worked for folks who tried it on my advice so there is some amount of data on the topic. It cries out for a well tracked study. > With people, though, I think it still comes down to YMMV....some people > might simply find they can manage to undereat better if they know they can > eat more food the next day, thus ending up with a net two-day deficit. On the other hand eating enough carbs on the high intake day can trigger carb cravings on the low intake day so it can be a lot more work. Two faces to that coin ... :: "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote: :: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] :: day can trigger carb cravings on the low intake day so it can :: be a lot more work. Two faces to that coin ... Curiously, as a now long-time low-carber, that never happens to me. On cycling days, I need to eat more carbs than normal and I *never* fly off the wagon on the days afterwards. Maybe my T2D is a factor, but it's never a problem for me. Now, for a newbie low-carber.... Heck, I could go eat some carbs right now (sitting at my desk) and I would still not fly off and have a carb binge. I'm not going to do that because I have a rigid mind frame about when I eat lots of carbs, but I'm confident I could. I too have daily wild calorie changes with averages across several weeks that are consistent. >> :: IIRC, there have been several eating plans that cycle between feast >> :: and famine in the short term. [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > day can trigger carb cravings on the low intake day so it can > be a lot more work. Two faces to that coin ... > Some of the hormones in the various feedback loops use the recent > highest dietary intake somehow. For example the type of leptin [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > levels. T3 thyroid follows a similar pattern over weeks - It's why > weight lifters do cyclical plans. I've been meaning to learn more about this leptin/T3 stuff you keep mentioning. Is there a good source you'd recommend, or should I start googling? Thanks,  SignatureAaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz There's a lot of info on this out there already; Google "intermittent fasting". Michael Eades blogged about it; there's threads on Bernstein's board, etc. Signaturehttp://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/ > Currently just mice have used this diet in lab studies. > > I wonder how long it will be till "Woman's World" magazine reports on this > kind of study as the new "Breakthrough" in dieting. Interesting. It so happens that I'll be fasting this Saturday, along with about 600,000 of my closest friends :-) Mike > Currently just mice have used this diet in lab studies. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > IIRC, there have been several eating plans that cycle between feast and > famine in the short term. One name I've heard for it, is the 'Warrior Diet'. One thing I've heard about fasting is that it promotes the production of Human Growth Hormone, which heals the body more than usual while you're taking a break from food. |
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