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Nice Reader Review of Taubes New Book "Good Calories, Bad Calories"

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Jim - 28 Sep 2007 01:50 GMT
There is a nice reader review on the Taubes new book at:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=349689

It boils it down to 11 points of view developed by Taubes review of the
research papers he discusses.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=349689
Roger Zoul - 28 Sep 2007 03:25 GMT
> There is a nice reader review on the Taubes new book at:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=349689

Well, my copy shipped today. Still, those seem like some bold claims for
someone not actively involved with medical research of any kind (that I know
if, anyway).
Jim - 28 Sep 2007 03:56 GMT
>>There is a nice reader review on the Taubes new book at:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> someone not actively involved with medical research of any kind (that I know
> if, anyway).

Yes, the claims of near blindedness by belief in "low fat" and "High
Cholesterol" seem fantastic.

But then, similar claims are being made by people who are medically
qualified, such as Dr. Uffe Ravnskov, Dr. Malcolm Kendrick and several
others.

There is the whole story of refusal to consider the health effects of
TransFats and partially hydrogenated vegetable oils which went on for 50
years until it was finally determined that these things weren't safe in
any quantity. Dr. Mary Enig told the story of how political an
unscientific that whole thing was.

The major financial benificiaries of the "Saturated Fat is Bad" group
were the vegetable oil industry participants. They also benefited
greatly from TransFats.

Of course, there are the Diet Gurus like Drs. Eades and Atkins and a few
more who also advocated that the official position of the "Authorities"
had holes in it.

So, on reflection, it doesn't seem as if there is all that much that
qualified people hadn't already begun to point out in publications that
could be read and verified.

The situation is unsatisfactory.

Even if Taubes has done a good job of uncovering decades of professional
bias (excluding ideas counter to those of "Authority"), then he will
still be accused of being a muckracker and "Unauthorative".

Perhaps there are times when you have to do it, even if you know that
the effort is futile.

Food is industrial now. We have had a new form of industrial revolution
- and manufactured food including vast oceans of plants as precursors to
food chemistry and food manufacturing.

We have never proven that this food industry is safe, and at least for
TransFats, we have proven that this food industry was unsafe.

We are the experimental animals..... we are the long term test animals.
RRzVRR - 28 Sep 2007 14:23 GMT
> The major financial benificiaries of the "Saturated Fat is Bad" group
> were the vegetable oil industry participants. They also benefited
> greatly from TransFats.

snip

> We have never proven that this food industry is safe, and at least for
> TransFats, we have proven that this food industry was unsafe.
>
> We are the experimental animals..... we are the long term test animals.

You might enjoy reading the book "Fat Land: How Americans
Became the Fattest People in the World" by Greg Critser.
Its been several years since I read it, but remember it
giving a several good examples on how industry, government,
professional institutions have had an impact on the publics
choices (and understandings) of nutrition and exercise.

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Jim - 28 Sep 2007 14:43 GMT
>> The major financial benificiaries of the "Saturated Fat is Bad" group
>> were the vegetable oil industry participants. They also benefited
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> industry, government, professional institutions have had an impact on
> the publics choices (and understandings) of nutrition and exercise.

I looked it up at Amazon.com and read the extract. It begins with
politics and corn and HFCS and looks quite interesting. Covers some of
the same ground as "Omnivore's Dilemma". Thanks, it goes on my list of
things to read. As far as HFCS is concerned, we are the long term test
animals, and the issue of harm was Pooh-poohed in the beginning,
according to "Fat Land".

Jim
Jackie Patti - 28 Sep 2007 22:47 GMT
> Covers some of
> the same ground as "Omnivore's Dilemma". Thanks, it goes on my list of
> things to read.

Heh.  That one is on my list too.  Do we ALL read the same books?

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Roger Zoul - 28 Sep 2007 23:04 GMT
>> Covers some of the same ground as "Omnivore's Dilemma". Thanks, it goes
>> on my list of things to read.
>
> Heh.  That one is on my list too.  Do we ALL read the same books?

Time to start a bookclub.
RRzVRR - 29 Sep 2007 14:09 GMT
>>> Covers some of the same ground as "Omnivore's Dilemma". Thanks, it goes
>>> on my list of things to read.
>> Heh.  That one is on my list too.  Do we ALL read the same books?
>
> Time to start a bookclub.

At one time I suggested we start a "Fitness/Nutrition Book
Club" at my YMCA.  It seemed like a good fit.

FYI, the "Fat Land" book is a slim one and maybe just a few
hours read.

Also did anyone see Taubes on Nightline this last week?  I
have on the DVR but haven't had the time to watch it yet.

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Cubit - 28 Sep 2007 17:10 GMT
[snip]
> We are the experimental animals..... we are the long term test animals.

I wanted to nit-pick on this, given the bad science, politics, and
commercial incentives that have formed our food supply.  However, in effect,
you are right.  People aren't patient enough for a 20 year+ study before a
food is added to the mix.

There is also the factor that we inherited many foods and additives that
were added 50 to 100 years ago and presumed to be OK.

I don't think the creators of trans fats even dreamed of long term problems
with it.  Being test animals sort of implies intent on the part of the
testers.  I don't think there was such an intent, just arrogance.

Being the long term test animals is the unintended reality.

Jim, you have been a great addition to our group here on ASDLC.
Aaron Baugher - 29 Sep 2007 23:21 GMT
>> We are the experimental animals..... we are the long term test
>> animals.

> I wanted to nit-pick on this, given the bad science, politics, and
> commercial incentives that have formed our food supply.  However, in
> effect, you are right.  People aren't patient enough for a 20 year+
> study before a food is added to the mix.

> There is also the factor that we inherited many foods and additives
> that were added 50 to 100 years ago and presumed to be OK.

Yeah, if you read stuff from the early-to-mid 1900s, you get a strong
vibe of "Science is The Answer."  There was no greater authority than
a man in a white coat and spectacles.  Large manufacturing companies
were trusted because they were booming and that's where the jobs were.
People envisioned a future where houses were mass-produced and planted
in rows in neat little rows, food came in heat-and-serve packages, and
plastics made everything better.  If it was invented by scientists and
made in a factory, it had to be good.

Eventually people started to realize that polyester clothes really
aren't comfortable, TV dinners suck, and suburbs are boring; and in
the backlash to all that, we got hippies and low-fat.

> I don't think the creators of trans fats even dreamed of long term
> problems with it.  Being test animals sort of implies intent on the
> part of the testers.  I don't think there was such an intent, just
> arrogance.

> Being the long term test animals is the unintended reality.

I agree; I don't think anyone was trying to poison us.  They really
believed they were doing the right thing in pushing those products.
Their beliefs may have been influenced less by the facts and more by a
prejudice against "luxury" foods like meat and butter, but they were
still honest beliefs.

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Roger Zoul - 30 Sep 2007 13:10 GMT
>>> We are the experimental animals..... we are the long term test
>>> animals.
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> prejudice against "luxury" foods like meat and butter, but they were
> still honest beliefs.

Honest, but deadly, in hindsight. Hubris to the extreme.
Jackie Patti - 28 Sep 2007 22:47 GMT
> There is the whole story of refusal to consider the health effects of
> TransFats and partially hydrogenated vegetable oils which went on for 50
> years until it was finally determined that these things weren't safe in
> any quantity. Dr. Mary Enig told the story of how political an
> unscientific that whole thing was.

I'm reading her now.  I was pretty skeptical of her at first, but I'm
growing more interested over time.

I'm also reading Barry Sears and William Davis.

> We have never proven that this food industry is safe, and at least for
> TransFats, we have proven that this food industry was unsafe.

I think as research continues, HFCS is going to wind up in the same
category as trans fats.

The food industry is adding bad crap like this and removing necessary
things like CLA, MCT and appropriate levels of vitamins.

IMO, the answer is eating foods that don't have labels.

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