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more Taubes stuff

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Jackie Patti - 26 Oct 2007 13:12 GMT
Davis blogged about him today.

Bernstein mentioned him on his teleconference last night.

I still haven't finished the book myself yet...

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Jim - 26 Oct 2007 13:21 GMT
> Davis blogged about him today.
>
> Bernstein mentioned him on his teleconference last night.
>
> I still haven't finished the book myself yet...

It is a slow read, isn't it?

I find that I have to go back often and reread chapters and sections,
just because I can't remember all of the new stuff I am being exposed to.

I haven't worked this hard on a book for a very long time.

My experience was encountering information and references that required
giving up a number of "self evident truths" that have been passed around.

Have you had the same experience, or had you been current enough on this
research that you had avoided these kinds of "self evident truths"?
Alan Wright - 26 Oct 2007 17:41 GMT
> > Davis blogged about him today.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Have you had the same experience, or had you been current enough on this
> research that you had avoided these kinds of "self evident truths"?

This was my experience reading the book as well. Stick with it, it just gets
better and better right to the end.

Alan
Jackie Patti - 27 Oct 2007 18:34 GMT
> Have you had the same experience, or had you been current enough on this
> research that you had avoided these kinds of "self evident truths"?

For the most part, I am finding most of the arguments familiar from much
low-carb reading over the course of more than a decade at it.  On the
other hand, he puts it all together in an interesting way, so I'm
finding it an enjoyable read.

There have also been a few tidbits that I was not aware of, or had never
thought about properly.  For example, the bit about all monosaccharides
contributing to glycation of proteins - it had never occured to me
before that fructose would contribute to making the HbA1c not directly
related to blood glucose readings.

All-in-all, I'd say it's definetly worth reading.

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Jean Genie - 28 Oct 2007 07:32 GMT
> Davis blogged about him today.
>
> Bernstein mentioned him on his teleconference last night.
>
> I still haven't finished the book myself yet...

'Davis'? Would you mind pointing to Davis?
Jackie Patti - 28 Oct 2007 12:59 GMT
>> Davis blogged about him today.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> 'Davis'? Would you mind pointing to Davis?

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/

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Jackie Patti - 28 Oct 2007 15:42 GMT
I had to powerhouse my way through Taubes today as it's due back at the
library and can't be renewed as there's a waiting list for it cause they
only got 5 copies.

I was very impressed at his ability to cover the Kreb's cycle,
lipolysis, etc and manage to translate it to laymen's language.  My
college biochemistry textbook was easily twice as thick as this and
didn't have to "translate" for laymen.  Course, it had a lot more
details, but... the thing is no one remembers all that stuff anyways.
Most you remember is stuff like the Kreb's cycle produces ATP in the
mitochondria... and Taubes manages to cover all the bits one actually
remembers.  It might be somewhat tough reading for some laymen, but he
does manage to make the basic metabolism of carbohydrate and fat pretty
accessible for non-chemists (he has much less on the metabolism of
protein though).

He doesn't just discuss insulin and I'm not sure why people come away
from the book thinking that.  He makes a big deal out of the importance
of the hypothalamus-pituitary axis in regulating both appetite and fat
storage.  He discusses the importance of the sex hormones with regards
to fat storage also.  He provides a summary of the hormones known to
regulate fat storage as of 1965 includes: epinephrine, norepinephrine,
ACTH, glucagon, TSH, melanocyte-stimulating hormone, vasopressin and
growth hormone as well as insulin.  That being said, he doesn't address
adrenal hormones beyond epinephrine and norepinephrine hardly at all.
He discusses some experiments with rats with their adrenals surgically
removed, but it's basically about aldosterone (though he doesn't refer
to the hormone by name).  Not a word about cortisol anywhere.

I'm not sure why people come away from the book thinking he says not to
exercise.  Rather, he points out that fat storage is related to calories
in and calories out pretty directly.  He simply points out there's some
confusion about what is the cause and what is the effect - which
variables are independent in that equation.   He also points out that
exercise is not the entirety of "calories out" as basal metabolism is
also effected.  He seems to believe that excess fat storage causes a
reduction in both basal metabolism and the natural desire to exercise -
lean people burn calories at a higher rate even when sleeping and
naturally enjoy moving more.  But nowhere does he say that exercise is
not good.

I think this is the best and most thorough low-carb book I've ever read.
Lots of information I've run across in many different places is all
organized here, as well as a few studies I wasn't familair with.   Beats
the heck out of Protein Power, which is no longer my favorite low-carb
book now that GCBC is available.  In between finishing reading it and
returning it to the library, I ordered a copy from Amazon as it's a good
reference book that should sit on my desk next to Bernstein and my book
of food counts.

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RRzVRR - 29 Oct 2007 11:08 GMT
> I think this is the best and most thorough low-carb book I've ever read.
> Lots of information I've run across in many different places is all
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> reference book that should sit on my desk next to Bernstein and my book
> of food counts.

Did you ever read Lyle McDonald's book, "The Ketogenic
Diet - A Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner"?

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Jim - 29 Oct 2007 12:23 GMT
>> I think this is the best and most thorough low-carb book I've ever
>> read. Lots of information I've run across in many different places is
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Did you ever read Lyle McDonald's book, "The Ketogenic
> Diet - A Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner"?

I just read a small extract from Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Ketogenic-Diet-Complete-Dieter-Practitioner/dp/0967145600/
ref=sr_1_2/103-2145203-0980629?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193656453&sr=8-2


It looks very interesting, but after reading Taubes to the end, I am
ready to read a couple of relaxing novels before embarking on anything
medically heavy again.

Thanks for the tip.
Jackie Patti - 29 Oct 2007 15:52 GMT
>> I think this is the best and most thorough low-carb book I've ever
>> read. Lots of information I've run across in many different places is
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Did you ever read Lyle McDonald's book, "The Ketogenic
> Diet - A Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner"?

No.  I've read a lot of Lyle's stuff, mostly articles, the forums on his
web site and one e-book, but not that book.

In general, my impression is that Lyle is more into recent research and
quite a bit more technical than Taubes is.  I've also not seen Lyle
address some of the specific stuff Tubes did - or not from the same
viewpoint anyway.

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RRzVRR - 30 Oct 2007 01:55 GMT
>>> I think this is the best and most thorough low-carb book I've ever
>>> read. Lots of information I've run across in many different places is
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> address some of the specific stuff Tubes did - or not from the same
> viewpoint anyway.

There's a lot in the book that most LC eaters may never need
to know (pre bodybuilding contest plans which come up late
in the book), but it does a very good job at explaining the
basics of fuel systems and LC.

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Roger Zoul - 31 Oct 2007 01:23 GMT
> Jackie Patti wrote:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> bodybuilding contest plans which come up late in the book), but it does a
> very good job at explaining the basics of fuel systems and LC.

It seems a bit old research wise, though.  I'd like to see a new edition.
RRzVRR - 31 Oct 2007 10:39 GMT
>> Jackie Patti wrote:
>>>> Did you ever read Lyle McDonald's book, "The Ketogenic
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> It seems a bit old research wise, though.  I'd like to see a new edition.

I would as well.

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RRzVRR - 29 Oct 2007 12:50 GMT
Since this was off the beaten path, I thought some might
find the exchange between Taubes the NYT Book reviewer
Kolata interesting.

My thought was that Kolata won't acknowledge the concept of
human behavior (and/or addiction) effecting dieting... let
alone how that behavior (and/or addiction) would be hard to
overcome if it receives a constant bombardment of messages
from the educational, media & medical communities
encouraging the addiction.

=================
October 7, 2007

Gina Kolata is a medical reporter for The Times and the
author of ''Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss
and the Myths and Realities of Dieting.'

GOOD CALORIES, BAD CALORIES

Gary Taubes is a brave and bold science journalist who does
not accept conventional wisdom. In ''Good Calories, Bad
Calories,'' he says what he wants is a fair hearing and
rigorous testing for ideas that might seem shocking.

His thesis, first introduced in a much-debated article in
The New York Times Magazine in 2002 challenging the low-fat
diet orthodoxy, is that nutrition and public health research
and policy have been driven by poor science and a sort of
pigheaded insistence on failed hypotheses. As a result,
people are confused and misinformed about the relationship
between what they eat and their risk of growing fat. He
expands that thesis in the new book, arguing that the same
confused reasoning and poor science has led to
misconceptions about the relation between diet and heart
disease, high blood pressure, cancer, dementia, diabetes
and, again, obesity. When it comes to determining the ideal
diet, he says, we have to ''confront the strong possibility
that much of what we've come to believe is wrong.'' The best
diet, he argues, is one loaded with protein and fat but very
low in carbohydrates.

Taubes spent five years working on the book, which runs to
more than 450 pages. The bibliography alone goes on for more
than 60 pages. He also says he interviewed more than 600
doctors, researchers and administrators, though he adds that
''the appearance of their names in the text ... does not
imply that they agree with all or even part of the thesis
set forth in this book.'' Taubes does not bow to the current
fashion for narrative nonfiction, instead building his
argument case by case, considering the relationship between
dietary fat and heart disease, carbohydrates and disease,
diet and obesity. As a result, the book can be hard to read,
tedious in many places and repetitious.

Yet much of what Taubes relates will be eye-opening to those
who have not closely followed the science, or lack of
science, in this area. (Disclosure: At one point he
approvingly cites my articles on the lack of evidence that a
high-fiber diet protects against colon cancer.) For example,
he tells the amazing story of how the idea of a connection
between dietary fat, cholesterol and heart disease got going
and took on a life of its own, despite the minimal
connection between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol
for most people. He does not mince words. ''From the
inception of the diet-heart hypothesis in the early 1950s,
those who argued that dietary fat caused heart disease
accumulated the evidential equivalent of a mythology to
support their belief. These myths are still passed on
faithfully to the present day.'' The story is similar for
salt and high blood pressure, and for dietary fiber and cancer.

In fact, Taubes convincingly shows that much of what is
believed about nutrition and health is based on the
flimsiest science. To cite one minor example, there's the
notion that a tiny bit of extra food, 50 or 100 calories a
day -- a few bites of a hamburger, say -- can gradually make
you fat, and that eating a tiny bit less each day, or doing
something as simple as walking a mile, can make the weight
slowly disappear. This idea is based on a hypothesis put
forth in a single scientific paper, published in 2003. And
even then it was qualified, Taubes reports, by the statement
that it was ''theoretical and involves several assumptions''
and that it ''remains to be empirically tested.''
Nonetheless, it has now become the basis for an official
federal recommendation for obesity prevention.

But the problem with a book like this one, which goes on and
on in great detail about experiments new and old in areas
ranging from heart disease to cancer to diabetes, is that it
can be hard to know what has been left out. For example,
Taubes argues at length that people get fat because
carbohydrates in their diet drive up the insulin level in
the blood, which in turn encourages the storage of fat. His
conclusion: all calories are not alike. A calorie of fat is
much less fattening than a calorie of sugar.

It's known, though, that the body is not so easily fooled.
Taubes ignores what diabetes researchers say is a body of
published papers documenting a complex system of metabolic
controls that, in the end, assure that a calorie is a
calorie is a calorie. He also ignores definitive studies
done in the 1950s and '60s by Jules Hirsch of Rockefeller
University and Rudolph Leibel of Columbia, which tested
whether calories from different sources have different
effects. The investigators hospitalized their subjects and
gave them controlled diets in which the carbohydrate content
varied from zero to 85 percent, and the fat content varied
inversely from 85 percent to zero. Protein was held steady
at 15 percent. They asked how many calories of what kind
were needed to maintain the subjects' weight. As it turned
out, the composition of the diet made no difference.

As I read Taubes's book, I kept wondering how he would deal
with an obvious question. If low-carbohydrate diets are so
wonderful, why is anyone fat? Most people who struggle with
their weight have tried these diets and nearly all have
regained everything they lost, as they do with other diets.
What is the problem?

On Page 446, he finally tells us. Carbohydrates, he says,
are addictive, and we've all gotten hooked. Those who try to
break the habit start to crave them, just as an alcoholic
craves a drink or a smoker craves a cigarette. But, he adds,
if they are addictive, that ''implies that the addiction can
be overcome with sufficient time, effort and motivation.''

I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced.
===============
October 28, 2007

In her review of “Good Calories, Bad Calories” (Oct. 7),
Gina Kolata dismisses a central thesis of my book — that
weight gain is determined by the hormonal regulation of fat
tissue and not by calories-in-minus-calories-out — by
claiming that I ignore “definitive studies,” which she then
proceeds to seriously misrepresent. Rudolph Leibel and Jules
Hirsch did not, as Kolata says, do the studies in the “1950s
and ’60s,” when Leibel would have still been making his way
from grade school through medical school. Rather, the study
— singular — published in 1992, was a reanalysis of data
gathered (on only 16 subjects) originally by Edward Ahrens
of Rockefeller University. Ahrens was not studying weight
regulation, ironically, but the ability of carbohydrates to
elevate triglyceride levels and so increase heart disease
risk. The Leibel-Hirsch paper itself argues against the use
of the term “definitive” to describe it — i.e., it is rife
with caveats. Among them, that Ahrens’s subjects could have
gained 15 pounds a year from a unique fattening effect of
carbohydrates — 150 pounds of excess fat in a decade — and
Leibel and Hirsch’s analysis would have been unable to
detect it. Moreover, only one of Ahrens’s subjects was
obese, which means, as Leibel and Hirsch explain, that
“similar results might not have been obtained in a group of
obese individuals or lean individuals susceptible to
obesity.” Since the hypothesis I discuss in “Good Calories,
Bad Calories” is intended to explain the cause of obesity in
precisely these individuals, it is odd to undercut my
credibility by accusing me of leaving out a study that did
not actually address that issue.

Kolata also evokes the authority of “diabetes researchers”
who allegedly say that all we need to know about fattening
is that “a calorie is a calorie is a calorie.” What makes
this particularly curious is that diabetes researchers, more
so than those in any other medical discipline, are
intimately aware of the radically different effect of
proteins, carbohydrates and fats on insulin secretion and so
on the progression and symptoms of diabetes. They’re also
all too aware that insulin makes diabetics fat. As James
Rosenzweig, director of the office of disease management at
the Joslin Diabetes Center in Boston, phrased it, using the
technical terminology, weight gain on insulin therapy can
“result from the direct lipogenic effects of insulin on
adipose tissue, independent of food intake.” Put simply,
insulin causes us to accumulate fat in our fat tissue (what
Rosenzweig means by “lipogenic”) regardless of whether we
consume more calories. The question Kolata does not address
is why this would be accepted as a cause of fattening in
diabetics, but rejected as a potential cause of fattening in
the rest of us. And since insulin is secreted primarily in
response to the carbohydrates in our diet, why would we
dismiss with such alacrity, as Kolata does, the notion that
carbohydrates may be the fundamental cause of weight gain
and obesity?

At a time when obesity and diabetes are now considered to be
epidemic in America, it seems peculiar that Kolata would not
be willing to examine more rigorously any reasonable
alternative hypotheses for the continuing epidemics, rather
than dismiss them with this kind of faux science that my
book makes clear is too often found in the work of both
researchers in the field and, regrettably, journalists who
cover it regularly.

Gary Taubes
=========================================

Gina Kolata replies:

Jules Hirsch, who in fact says he did do the study, said he
and Rudolph Leibel published the data in 1992 precisely to
counteract arguments like those made by Gary Taubes. And
while the study was initiated to answer another question, it
also addressed the question of whether calories from
carbohydrates and calories from fats are different in terms
of their calorie-for-calorie contribution to body weight.
Taubes says in his book that calories from carbohydrates are
intrinsically more fattening, so this is a central question.
The authors conclude: “Variations in fat intake from 0
percent to 70 percent of total energy under conditions of
equal energy intake produced no significant changes in body
weight over periods of observations averaging 33 days.” In
other words, a calorie was a calorie was a calorie.

As Taubes amply documents in his book, low-carbohydrate
diets have been popularized periodically since the 19th
century. Best-selling book after best-selling book promoted
them. Yet if they work so well, why are so many people still
searching for an effective way to lose weight?

Taubes says the reason people fail on low-carbohydrate diets
is that they have not overcome their addiction to
carbohydrates. But that begs the question, and Taubes
provides no scientific evidence to back up that claim.

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Hollywood - 29 Oct 2007 14:25 GMT
> Since this was off the beaten path, I thought some might
> find the exchange between Taubes the NYT Book reviewer
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> from the educational, media & medical communities
> encouraging the addiction.

What I thought was most interesting in Kolata being assigned to
review the book is that she is excoriated, personally, throughout
the book. She and the rest of the Times nutrition/health staff are
raked throughout the book, with the lone good thing said about
anyone at the Times said about Kolata. Since the NYTimes book
reivew regularly farms out reviews to qualified outsiders, I think
this is something the Times ombudsman might want to take a
look at, because the old painted lady's credibility as a source for
quality information without biases (much less grudges) is at
stake.

Very curious. If I were Taubes, in my response, I might've brought
this issue up. Raise all the facts, then speculate on Kolata's real
motivations (she has a book out, after all, that probably looks very
stupid with Good Calories, Bad Calories on the market, which both
presents the flaws with her underlying theories, the flaws with her
reporting over a 20 year span, and an alternative hypothesis that
blows her book out of the water). I dunno about you, but with
all that going on, can she really read it with unvarnished eyes?
Jim - 29 Oct 2007 14:59 GMT
>>Since this was off the beaten path, I thought some might
>>find the exchange between Taubes the NYT Book reviewer
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> blows her book out of the water). I dunno about you, but with
> all that going on, can she really read it with unvarnished eyes?

MEOW ! ~

But the suggestions of misreading the literature are more than a mere
catfight.

Well, there is an essential aspect called "do you know more about the
scientific method than a five year old?"

The book is a massive statement that the medical/nutrition industry is
far from scientific, as have been most of the conventional nutrition
writers.

In her book, she portrayed the massive criticism of Banting as did
Taubes. Yet, she neglected the entire role of poor quality science, I
believe.

Taubes referenced 7 of her works, but not her recent book, which may
have been too recently published to get into the slow book
publishing/printing/distributing cycle.

Taubes lists himself only twice in the bibliography.
RRzVRR - 30 Oct 2007 01:49 GMT
>> Since this was off the beaten path, I thought some might
>> find the exchange between Taubes the NYT Book reviewer
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> quality information without biases (much less grudges) is at
> stake.

I guess they thought Jane Brody would be just too amusing?

> Very curious. If I were Taubes, in my response, I might've brought
> this issue up. Raise all the facts, then speculate on Kolata's real
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> blows her book out of the water). I dunno about you, but with
> all that going on, can she really read it with unvarnished eyes?

Signature

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"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
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Cubit - 29 Oct 2007 15:53 GMT
An interesting debate.  My personal experience is that a calorie is a
calorie, but, but, the type and quantity of calorie influences eating
behavior.

It is odd that the best study they can find where subjects were hospitalized
to prevent cheating had only 16 subjects.  Bad science.

I experimented with increasing calories within the very low carb context.
Over a month, there seemed to be a weight gain consistent with the calories.
I had read once, that the body had a maximum capacity for absorbing fat in a
day.  If so, I should have been able to have one very high fat day and get
away with it.  -not so   My Fitday monthly averages stayed consistent in the
relationship of calories and weight.

Perhaps, the factors Taubes taut influence where the fat goes on the body.
That could confuse things.

I expect to get his book for Christmas.

> Since this was off the beaten path, I thought some might find the exchange
> between Taubes the NYT Book reviewer Kolata interesting.
[quoted text clipped - 188 lines]
> question, and Taubes provides no scientific evidence to back up that
> claim.
Susan - 29 Oct 2007 16:28 GMT
> An interesting debate.  My personal experience is that a calorie is a
> calorie, but, but, the type and quantity of calorie influences eating
> behavior.

A calorie is not a calorie:

BioMed Central
Page 1 of 5
(page number not for citation purposes)
Nutrition Journal
Review Open Access
"A calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of thermodynamics
Richard D Feinman*1 and Eugene J Fine1,2
Address: 1Department of Biochemistry, State University of New York
Downstate Medical Center, Brooklyn, NY 11203 USA and 2Department of
Nuclear Medicine, Jacobi Medical Center, Bronx, NY 10461 USA
Email: Richard D Feinman* - rfeinman@downstate.edu; Eugene J Fine -
efine@downstate.edu
* Corresponding author
Abstract
The principle of "a calorie is a calorie," that weight change in
hypocaloric diets is independent of
macronutrient composition, is widely held in the popular and technical
literature, and is frequently
justified by appeal to the laws of thermodynamics. We review here some
aspects of
thermodynamics that bear on weight loss and the effect of macronutrient
composition. The focus
is the so-called metabolic advantage in low-carbohydrate diets – greater
weight loss compared to
isocaloric diets of different composition. Two laws of thermodynamics
are relevant to the systems
considered in nutrition and, whereas the first law is a conservation (of
energy) law, the second is
a dissipation law: something (negative entropy) is lost and therefore
balance is not to be expected
in diet interventions. Here, we propose that a misunderstanding of the
second law accounts for the
controversy about the role of macronutrient effect on weight loss and we
review some aspects of
elementary thermodynamics. We use data in the literature to show that
thermogenesis is sufficient
to predict metabolic advantage. Whereas homeostasis ensures balance
under many conditions, as
a general principle, "a calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of
thermodynamics.
Review
The recent awareness of an epidemic of obesity coincides
with, and may have contributed to a dramatic increase in
the popularity of a variety of low carbohydrate diets. This
rapid switch in dietary habits of a significant part of the
population, and the virtual revolution in the food industry,
is unusual in that it stands in direct opposition to
long-standing recommendations of the majority of the
nutritional and medical establishment (e.g. [1,2]).
Despite isolated examples, such as a recent editorial by
Walter Willet pointing to the need to understand low carbohydrate
diets [3], there is still little real acceptance by
nutrition professionals or health organizations. One
aspect of these diets that has been especially controversial
is the so-called metabolic advantage – the idea that more
weight may be lost calorie for calorie compared with diets
of higher carbohydrate content.
We recently reviewed the literature on metabolic advantage
[4]. We showed that there is a sufficient number of
reports in the literature to establish the existence of metabolic
advantage and we tabulated results from ten or so
studies demonstrating that low carbohydrate diets can
lead to greater weight loss than isocaloric low fat diets.
The reports we cited have frequently been met with the
criticism that the data could not be right because they
would violate the laws of thermodynamics ([5,6]). An
example is the recent demonstration of metabolic advantage
in a small, pilot study [7] which, despite its preliminary
status, was extremely well controlled. Three groups
were studied: A low carbohydrate group (LoCHO = 1800
Published: 28 July 2004

Nutrition Journal 2004, 3:9 doi:10.1186/1475-2891-3-9
Received: 21 April 2004
Accepted: 28 July 2004
This article is available from: http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9
© 2004 Feinman and Fine; licensee BioMed Central Ltd. This is an
open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons
Attribution
License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0), which permits
unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided
the original
work is properly cited.
Nutrition Journal 2004, 3:9 http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9
Page 2 of 5
(page number not for citation purposes)
kcal for men; 1500 kcal for women), a low fat group
(LoFat, 1800 and 1500); a third group also consumed a
low carbohydrate diet but an additional 300 kcalories
were provided (LoCHO+300, 2100 and 1800). The order
of average amount of weight lost was LoCHO = 23 lbs,
LoCHO+300 = 20 lbs LoFat = 17 lbs. This work received a
good deal of attention in the popular press. Media reports,
however, included comments of experts that "It doesn't
make sense, does it?" "It violates the laws of thermodynamics.
No one has ever found any miraculous metabolic
effects." ([5]). If this is an accurate quotation, it is odd
indeed. Miraculous, or otherwise, a metabolic effect was
found. In the absence of an identifiable methodological
error, experimental data has to be accepted and numerous
investigations, in fact, serve as precedents for Greene et
al.'s findings (Reviews: [4,8]).
In our previous review of metabolic advantage [4] we
showed that there is, in fact, no theoretical violation of the
laws of thermodynamics, and we provided a plausible
mechanism. In general the pathways for gluconeogenesis
that are required in order to supply obligate glucose (e.g.
to brain and CNS), in combination with increased protein
turnover, could account for the missing energy. Here, we
simplify the thermodynamic argument and review some
of the relevant principles. We show, moreover, that wellestablished
data in the traditional nutritional literature
predict metabolic advantage and no one should be surprised.
The ironic conclusion is that the principle that
weight gain on isocaloric diets must always be independent
of macronutrient composition would violate the second
law of thermodynamics.
What do we mean by "a calorie is a calorie?"
Because it is a colloquial phrase, it is important to understand
exactly what it is meant by "a calorie is a calorie."
The most common meaning is that is it impossible for two
isocaloric diets to lead to different weight loss. Frequently,
the concept is justified by reference to the "laws of thermodynamics",
but an explicit connection has never been
spelled out. More recently, Buchholz & Schoeller [10]
appear to identify "a calorie is a calorie" with the first law
of thermodynamics. They also admit that high protein /
low carbohydrate diets can lead to greater weight loss than
isocaloric low fat diets in agreement with our assessment
[4]. Nonetheless they maintain that "a calorie is a calorie,"
now justifying it by their connection of the phrase to the
concept of energy conservation. It is important to point
out that no study of isocaloric diets has ever claimed that
the first law of thermodynamics is not true. Buchholz &
Schoeller [10] have limited themselves by only including
the first law and, therefore, do not understand how the
differential weight loss could occur and think it "deserves
further study." Our major point here is that there is more
than one law of thermodynamics and that a more accurate
understanding of the role of the second law shows that
differential weight loss is not inconsistent with any physical
principle.
Thermodynamics
The idea that "a calorie is a calorie" comes from a misunderstanding
of the laws of thermodynamics. There are two
laws of thermodynamics. (The zeroth law that establishes
the concept of temperature and the third law that
describes absolute zero are not relevant here). When
speaking of "the laws of thermodynamics" it is important
to be sure that one is including the second law. The first
law is very different in character from the second law
[9,11,12]. The first law is a conservation law: it says that
the form of energy may change, but the total is always
conserved. The second law is a dissipation law: it defines a
quantity, the entropy, S, which we traditionally identify
with disorder or high probability. The second law says
that in any (real) irreversible process, the entropy must
increase (ΔS > 0); balance is not expected. Entropy is, in
fact, identifiable with irreversibility.
It is important to understand that it is the second law that
drives chemical reactions. The first law is a bookkeeping
law and tells us that the total energy attributed to work,
heat and changes in chemical composition will be constant.
It does not tell us whether such a reaction will occur,
or if it does, what the relative distributions of the forms of
energy will be. To predict the tendency of the reaction to
occur, we must employ the second law that says the
entropy must increase. In a chemical reaction, at constant
temperature and pressure, the entropic and energetic
effects are combined into the change in the Gibbs free
energy, ΔG, whose sign predicts the direction of reaction,
and whose magnitude indicates the maximum amount of
work realizable from the reaction.
PFaigthuwreay 1s for oxidation of macronutrients
Pathways for oxidation of macronutrients.
Nutrition Journal 2004, 3:9 http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9
Page 3 of 5
(page number not for citation purposes)
Application of ΔG'
To understand the implications of "a calorie is a calorie,"
that energy yield could be path-independent and the same
for all diets consider that it implies that carbohydrate and
protein are equivalent fuels as shown in Figure 1. The diagram
indicates that, because it is a state variable, the free
energy (ΔG') for Path 1 must be equal to that for path 2 +
3. If the ΔG' values for path 1 and path 2 are taken to be
their calorimeter values, they will be approximately equal
(~4 kcal/g, path 1 corrected for ureagenesis). This means
that ΔG' for path 3, the conversion of protein to carbohydrate
(also corrected) must be about zero. There exists at
least one condition where this is not true, the standard
state; it is generally considered that gluconeogenesis from
one mole of alanine requires about 6 ATP [13,14]. Of
course free energies are concentration dependent, so in
vivo values will differ from standard state values but they
are continuous functions of the concentrations and there
will be numerous conditions under which ΔG' is not zero.
In other words, assuming that protein and carbohydrate
are energetically equivalent leads to a contradiction.
Inefficiency
The second law was developed in the context of the industrial
revolution and the attempt to understand the efficiency
of machines. The law describes the theoretical
limits on the efficiency of engines and applies as well to
living (irreversible) systems. The second law says that no
machine is completely efficient. Some of the available
energy is lost as heat and in the internal rearrangement of
chemical compounds and other changes in entropy. In
other words, although the first law holds even in irreversible
processes – energy is still conserved – the second law
says that something is lost, something is unrecoverable.
The efficiency of a machine is dependent on how the
machine works and, for a biochemical machine, the
nature of the fuel and the processes enlisted by the organism.
A simple example is the inefficiency of low-test gasoline
in high compression gasoline engines. If a "calorie is
a calorie" were true, nobody would pay extra for high test
gasoline. (The calorimeter values of a gasoline will be the
same whether or not it contains an antiknock compound).
In weight loss diets, of course, inefficiency is
desirable and is tied to hormonal levels and enzyme
activities
TFhigeu dreep 2endence of effective calories on % carbohydrate in a 2000
kcal diet
The dependence of effective calories on % carbohydrate in a 2000 kcal
diet. Effective calories were determined by subtracting
the losses due to thermogenesis as described in the text.
Nutrition Journal 2004, 3:9 http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9
Page 4 of 5
(page number not for citation purposes)
Efficiency and thermogenesis
In nutrition, one component of inefficiency is measured
in thermogenesis (thermic effect of feeding), or the heat
generated in processing food. There is a large literature on
this subject and the general conclusion, as summarized in
a recent review by Jéquier [15], is that thermic effects of
nutrients is approximately 2–3 % for lipids, 6–8 % for carbohydrates,
and 25–30% for proteins. It is interesting that
this data itself might be enough to explain metabolic
advantage. Here we took the average of Jéquier's values
(2.5, 7 and 27.5 % for fat, CHO and protein) and calculated
the effective energy yield for a 2000 kcal diet. If we
assume a diet composition of CHO:fat: protein of
55:30:15, within the range of commonly recommended
diets, the calculated effective yield is 1848 kcal. We now
consider the effect of reducing carbohydrate progressively
and substituting the calories removed equally between fat
and protein. Figure 2 shows that the wasted calories due
to thermogenesis increase as carbohydrate is reduced and
reach 100 kcal at 21 % carbohydrate. This value of 100
kcal is recommended by several professionals as the goal
for daily weight reduction (e.g. [16]). Notably, at 8 %
CHO, the value for the early phase of the Atkins [17],
South Beach [18] or Protein Power diets [19], 140 kcalories
are lost as heat. Now, there will be metabolic accommodations
and one can't predict that the ratios will stay
the same over a long term diet, but the calculations show
that the possibility of metabolic advantage should not
come as a surprise.
Recommendations for fighting obesity frequently call for
small reductions in calories [16]. In fact, given the resistance
of steady state systems to small perturbations it is
doubtful that this is a promising strategy. Nonetheless,
taking the goal at face value, if it could be achieved by a
simple change in macronutrient composition, such a
method would seem worthy of serious consideration. The
arguments above show that such a phenomenon is possible.
There are plausible arguments for how it could take
place and substantial experimental evidence for its occurrence
[4].
Conclusions
A review of simple thermodynamic principles shows that
weight change on isocaloric diets is not expected to be
independent of path (metabolism of macronutrients) and
indeed such a general principle would be a violation of
the second law. Homeostatic mechanisms are able to
insure that, a good deal of the time, weight does not fluctuate
much with changes in diet – this might be said to be
the true "miraculous metabolic effect" – but it is subject to
many exceptions. The idea that this is theoretically required
in all cases is mistakenly based on equilibrium, reversible
conditions that do not hold for living organisms and an
insufficient appreciation of the second law. The second
law of thermodynamics says that variation of efficiency
for different metabolic pathways is to be expected. Thus,
ironically the dictum that a "calorie is a calorie" violates the
second law of thermodynamics, as a matter of principle.
The analysis above might be said to be over-kill although
it is important, intellectually, not to invoke the laws of
thermodynamics inappropriately. There are also, however,
practical consequences. The seriousness of the
obesity epidemic suggests that we attack it with all the
means at our disposal. Metabolic advantage with low carbohydrate
diets is well established in the literature. It does
not always occur but the important point is that it can
occur. To ignore its possibilities and to not investigate the
precise conditions under which it appears would be cutting
ourselves off from potential benefit. The extent to
which metabolic advantage will have significant impact in
treating obesity is unknown and it is widely said in studies
of low carbohydrate diets that "more work needs to be
done." However, if the misconception is perpetuated that
there is a violation of physical laws, that work will not be
done, and if done, will go unpublished due to editorial
resistance. Attacking the obesity epidemic will involve giving
up many old ideas that have not been productive. "A
calorie is a calorie" might be a good place to start.
Competing interests
None declared.
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Roger Zoul - 31 Oct 2007 01:21 GMT
Thanks for a nice review....I need to get back to my copy...I got distracted
recently with a new computer and what is soon to be a new bike! :)

>I had to powerhouse my way through Taubes today as it's due back at the
>library and can't be renewed as there's a waiting list for it cause they
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> reference book that should sit on my desk next to Bernstein and my book of
> food counts.
 
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