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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / December 2007

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And one more question... fatigue

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Nina - 22 Dec 2007 00:31 GMT
Thank you, everyone, for the water retention answers!

I have one more thing that I just can't seem to track down at the
moment...  everyone talks about how much more energy they have, and
for me, that's been true as well (I have to say that I feel better
than I have in years, despite having lost essentially no weight, but
that's ok, I assume it will come).

But my husband has been a very different story.  He is very, very
overweight... has at least a couple hundred pounds to lose, sigh...
and is a T2 diabetic.  Although "we" have been eating lc for about 3
weeks now, it's only been the last week or so that he's really made an
effort to be about at induction-level carbs (although certainly for
the previous 2 weeks, he was eating maybe 50-80 net carbs/day, so not
a ton).

And the result has been off and on extreme fatigue.  Gets up, feels
fine, eats breakfast, feels fine... and in a few hours, absolutely
totally wiped.  Food helps.  Some days he feels great, does a lot...
and then we're back to this fatigue.

My theory is that he's just running out of fuel... that his body is a
lot of weight to carry around, and thus when he runs out of fuel, his
body just crashes.  And thus he should maybe be eating more protein
and/or more in general, and that perhaps this (and the accompanying
low-grade headaches) are likely to go away if we get the balance
right.

Anyone know if I'm anywhere close to right, or had any fatigue
experience?  He would really appreciate hearing something from someone
other than me, I think.

Nina
Susan - 22 Dec 2007 00:50 GMT
> Thank you, everyone, for the water retention answers!
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> totally wiped.  Food helps.  Some days he feels great, does a lot...
> and then we're back to this fatigue.

His body is used to running on very fast burning, high glucose.  Making
the switch over to the slow, inefficient process of burning fat and
converting protein to fuel can leave his body feeling short of fuel for
a while.  Low potassium, too, made me feel very heavy legged, brain
fogged, headachey and fatigued.  The potassium alone could be the problem.

He could try taking about 500 mg of potassium or the equivalent in lite
salt in water and see if that helps.  It kicks in really fast, like
20-30 minutes.  Try that a few times per day, with magnesium.

Susan
Roger Zoul - 22 Dec 2007 01:00 GMT
> Thank you, everyone, for the water retention answers!
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> totally wiped.  Food helps.  Some days he feels great, does a lot...
> and then we're back to this fatigue.

Sound as if he is just going through the throes of adapting to LC...try to
get him to hang tight...things should improve.

> My theory is that he's just running out of fuel... that his body is a
> lot of weight to carry around, and thus when he runs out of fuel, his
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Nina
Plan.YandZ@yahoo.com - 22 Dec 2007 01:02 GMT
> Thank you, everyone, for the water retention answers!
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Nina

This doesn't have an easy answer, especially with a very overweight
diabetic. I had a lot of trouble with energy when I was very
overweight and losing, and I toughed it out out of desperation -- but
I learned some tricks along the way. One is -- right, eat more. More
protein, definitely. More fat could help also, for different reasons.
Look at calories -- if they are far too low for bodymass, it's just
going to result in fatigue.

Carbs run on a whole feedback loop that moderate almost every hormone
in your body, and therefore *every* hormone indirectly. That means
that as the body switches over from sugar burning to fat burning, an
entire cascade of hormonal responses have to change direction. You're
rewiring yourself, and while it might feel like you are doing
absolutely nothing, your body is just flipping out, trying to find
homeostasis. There is also the question of toxicity -- if your husband
has a hidden food allergy, the first thing the body will do while it
detoxes is drag around, complain and get headaches.

Then there are electrolytes, as Susan brought up in another post. I
remember a handful of potassium resurrecting me from the dead within
only a few hours after I had spent an entire morning staring at the
wall, trying to remember to remember the thought I was working on
having.

Anyway, that changeover period is tough. The best prescription is more
food and more salts -- and more water. So try these things -- smaller
meals at smaller intervals, more calories,  and a bottle of potassium
pills from the drugstore. There are other products out there too to
add electrolytes without sugar. Also, if you're not eating a lot of
red meat you guys might want to try extra iron or b vitamins. Both of
these have worked for me when I was ready to cash it in.

Also -- if your husband was losing weight on 50 - 80, and he felt
healthier, there actually isn't any reason to go lower. We all have
our carb levels, for him 50 might be just fine.

c
Food never used to be this tiring...
Susan - 22 Dec 2007 01:10 GMT
> Anyway, that changeover period is tough. The best prescription is more
> food and more salts -- and more water. So try these things -- smaller
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> red meat you guys might want to try extra iron or b vitamins. Both of
> these have worked for me when I was ready to cash it in.

I just want to say that potassium supplements only come in a maximum
dose of 99mg and that gets very expensive when you need 500 or so mg.
NuSalt or other K based lite salt is much cheaper, and you can mix it in
water or a sugar free drink.

> Also -- if your husband was losing weight on 50 - 80, and he felt
> healthier, there actually isn't any reason to go lower. We all have
> our carb levels, for him 50 might be just fine.

Absolutely agree.  When I dropped from that to induction level, I ended
up not only fatigued, but paralyzed by depression due to the drop in my
active, T3 thyroid hormone brought on by ketosis.  There is no reason to
drop below the level you feel good at.

Susan
Roger Zoul - 22 Dec 2007 14:18 GMT
>> Absolutely agree.  When I dropped from that to induction level, I ended
> up not only fatigued, but paralyzed by depression due to the drop in my
> active, T3 thyroid hormone brought on by ketosis.  There is no reason to
> drop below the level you feel good at.

That's true.  Induction carb levels are not required.
Marengo - 24 Dec 2007 04:48 GMT
>I just want to say that potassium supplements only come in a maximum
>dose of 99mg and that gets very expensive when you need 500 or so mg.
>NuSalt or other K based lite salt is much cheaper, and you can mix it in
>water or a sugar free drink.

As an aside, one should always check medication contraindications --
especially those taken to treat for hypertension -- to make sure it's
ok to take potassium supplements or use  light salt with those meds. I
know I take two different blood pressure medications that specifically
say not to use lite salt or take K supplements, because the meds are
potassium-sparing and the combination can cause dangerous buildup of
K in the body leading to heart arrhythmias or worse. I know from
firsthand that both diuretics and Ace inhibitors fall into this
category, there may be others.

Just an FYI.
Jackie Patti - 24 Dec 2007 12:56 GMT
>> I just want to say that potassium supplements only come in a maximum
>> dose of 99mg and that gets very expensive when you need 500 or so mg.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> firsthand that both diuretics and Ace inhibitors fall into this
> category, there may be others.

It's hard to go wrong with Lite Salt overall - it's only half potassium
and half sodium, so you're getting *balanced* electrolytes as opposed to
a pure potassium salt like NuSalt or sodium salt like regular table salt.

I used Lite Salt exclusively for years and then was put on an ace
inhibitor (Lisinopril).  When I asked my cardiologist if I should quit
the Lite Salt and go back to regular, he said no.  The idea being the
Lite Salt was at that point not supplemental potassium, but part of my
regular potassium intake as I'd been using it for so long, and switching
back to all sodium would be a bit silly given that I have high bp.

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Lisbeth Andersson - 25 Dec 2007 09:42 GMT
>>I just want to say that potassium supplements only come in a
>>maximum dose of 99mg and that gets very expensive when you need
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Just an FYI.  

Really? My diuretics makes it nessessary for me to take extra
potassium. When I first started with them the pills contained extra K,
but they say that was too diffucult to manufacture, so now it's extra
pills, extra large pills with extra rough surface.

The different medication I tried before that was worse however. The
instructions for it said do not eat grapefruit, and it caused a severe
craving for grapefruit, which I ususually don't eat very often.

Lisbeth.

----
The day I don't learn anything new is the day I die.

*What we know is not nearly as interesting as *how we know it.

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em - 22 Dec 2007 01:11 GMT
"Nina"

> But my husband has been a very different story [snip]
> for
> the previous 2 weeks, he was eating maybe 50-80 net carbs/day, so not
> a ton).
>
> And the result has been off and on extreme fatigue.

Hi Nina, it takes a little while for the body to switch gears. Your husband
made a partial effort to cut carbs and that's dragging out the symptoms. (My
guess, anyway.) -- Mike
 
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