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Leg Cramps & Low Carb

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DRA - 14 Mar 2008 14:08 GMT
Does anyone else suffer from leg cramps while LC.  I drink plenty of water,
and keep the calcium up, but still get many nighttime cramps.  Any
suggestions?

Don
Cookie Cutter - 14 Mar 2008 14:16 GMT
> Does anyone else suffer from leg cramps while LC.  I drink plenty of water,
> and keep the calcium up, but still get many nighttime cramps.  Any
> suggestions?

Low carb is a natural diuretic.  Do you take diuretics or blood pressure
medicene?  You may be losing too much potassium.
DRA - 14 Mar 2008 14:29 GMT
I do have bp and take meds.  I am taking potassium supplements...maybe I
need to up the dose.

Thanks -

>> Does anyone else suffer from leg cramps while LC.  I drink plenty of
>> water, and keep the calcium up, but still get many nighttime cramps.  Any
>> suggestions?
>
> Low carb is a natural diuretic.  Do you take diuretics or blood pressure
> medicene?  You may be losing too much potassium.
Ken Kubos - 14 Mar 2008 15:21 GMT
I have cramps and I ingested a salt (KCL) substitute and it did NOT work for
me.

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Ken

"Buddhism elucidates why we are sentient."
"Buddhism follows thought throughout the Universe."
"Karma means that you don't get away with anything."

|I do have bp and take meds.  I am taking potassium supplements...maybe I
| need to up the dose.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
| > Low carb is a natural diuretic.  Do you take diuretics or blood pressure
| > medicene?  You may be losing too much potassium.
Doug Freyburger - 14 Mar 2008 16:45 GMT
> I do have bp and take meds.  I am taking potassium supplements...maybe I
> need to up the dose.

How new are you to low carb?  Low carbing handles blood pressure
in very many people so maybe you'll be able to reduce your dose
of the pills.  Work with your doctor on it of course and never stop on
your own, but do get your bp checked and see if it's time to adjust.

Cramps often stop after the first couple of weeks with or without
calcium or potassium supplementation.  The diuretic effect is the
water loss from dropping stored carbs - The body stores carbs
dissolved in water so once out of stored carbs, that's all the water
loss that will happen and calcium/potassium loss drops down to
small levels again.  So if you're in your first two weeks a simple
strategy is to notice when the calendar says four weeks and it
won't be happening any more.
Aaron Baugher - 17 Mar 2008 18:07 GMT
> I do have bp and take meds.  I am taking potassium supplements...maybe
> I need to up the dose.

I rarely say this, but check with your doctor first.  Some heart
medications cause potassium retention, so taking more could be a bad
thing.  

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Aaron -- 285/253/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

Pramesh Rutaji - 14 Mar 2008 16:44 GMT
> Does anyone else suffer from leg cramps while LC.  I drink plenty of water,
> and keep the calcium up, but still get many nighttime cramps.  Any
> suggestions?
>
> Don

magnesium
potassium

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Pramesh Rutaji

p297tongue6221@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply

em - 14 Mar 2008 16:48 GMT
> Does anyone else suffer from leg cramps while LC.  I drink plenty of water,
> and keep the calcium up, but still get many nighttime cramps.  Any
> suggestions?
>
> Don

I used to have that problem when low-carbing, not just in the legs but
in the chest and stomach too. I've had some *nasty* cramps.

Potassium is critical to your body, you can die if you aren't striking
a reasonable balance. Don't just try to supplement. Go to a doctor and
look into the problem. Take a blood test and see. If you need
potassium suppliemnts, you need it in a prescription size dose, not
what you would find on the store shelf.

Forget the low-salt, do you know how much of that stuff you'd have to
eat to get a full days dosage? Even then, no guarantees that your body
would either absorb or hold onto long enough (if potassium even is the
problem.)

That being said, I had blood work done my potassium levels where fine.
I took quinine pills for a while and that helped. After a while the
problem cleared up on its own. Some people say that Vitamin E helps --
I never tried that.

Since you're concerned about missing something nutrition-wise from
your diet, and suspect that is why you are having cramps, I'd be
interested in seeing what you typically eat over the period of a
couple days. Could you post that, please?

Mike
DRA - 14 Mar 2008 21:15 GMT
A typical day:

BK:  Bacon, eggs, lc tortilla, coffee

Snack 1: Unsalted almonds or leftover breakfast

LN: Chicken or beef, cabbage or spinach, olive oil used

Snack 2: almonds or leftover lunch, cantaloupe or berries if I have them.

Dinner: Steak and more steak, two-three servings of lc veggies.

Before Bed:  glass of lc milk

Supplements: potent multi, C, b-complex, potassium, calcium / mag.

Started Feb 1 at 371 lbs., now at 335 lbs.  @ 53 yrs.

Exercise  20+ games of bowling a week, combat hapkido 2 times week,
kickboxing 2-3 week.

On Mar 14, 6:08 am, "DRA" <damac...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
> Does anyone else suffer from leg cramps while LC. I drink plenty of water,
> and keep the calcium up, but still get many nighttime cramps. Any
> suggestions?
>
> Don

I used to have that problem when low-carbing, not just in the legs but
in the chest and stomach too. I've had some *nasty* cramps.

Potassium is critical to your body, you can die if you aren't striking
a reasonable balance. Don't just try to supplement. Go to a doctor and
look into the problem. Take a blood test and see. If you need
potassium suppliemnts, you need it in a prescription size dose, not
what you would find on the store shelf.

Forget the low-salt, do you know how much of that stuff you'd have to
eat to get a full days dosage? Even then, no guarantees that your body
would either absorb or hold onto long enough (if potassium even is the
problem.)

That being said, I had blood work done my potassium levels where fine.
I took quinine pills for a while and that helped. After a while the
problem cleared up on its own. Some people say that Vitamin E helps --
I never tried that.

Since you're concerned about missing something nutrition-wise from
your diet, and suspect that is why you are having cramps, I'd be
interested in seeing what you typically eat over the period of a
couple days. Could you post that, please?

Mike
Doug Freyburger - 14 Mar 2008 22:21 GMT
> A typical day:
> BK:  Bacon, eggs, lc tortilla, coffee

Grain so you're not on an equivalent of Atkins Induction.

> Snack 1: Unsalted almonds or leftover breakfast
> LN: Chicken or beef, cabbage or spinach, olive oil used
> Snack 2: almonds or leftover lunch, cantaloupe or berries if I have them.
> Dinner: Steak and more steak, two-three servings of lc veggies.
> Before Bed:  glass of lc milk
> Supplements: potent multi, C, b-complex, potassium, calcium / mag.

Note that potassium tablets are limited to 99mg because
of interactions with specific diruetic BP meds.  You want
to check yours with a pharmacist and after that consider
that 99mg is so tiny it's not worth taking those tablets.
A half teaspoon of lite salt sprinkled on dinner makes up
for many of them.

Quite low in carbs but you've started recently so may as well
be quite low at this point.  Very good food and supplements
overall.

> Started Feb 1 at 371 lbs., now at 335 lbs.  @ 53 yrs.

36 pounds in 6 weeks.  That's the sort of warp speed that
gets its own Star Trek episode.  Have you turned into a
tadpole?

Going by calories it's easy to figure that loss of fat at a
rate greater than 2 per week isn't ever going to be a matter
of calories.  Figuring you're currently losing fat at 3 per
pound because of how the hormones work and it isn't about
calories, that still gives almost 20 pounds of water lost.
That's a lot and it would have included minerals - The water
in blood is like seawater.

If you lost 18-20 pounds of water would it take 6 weeks to
catch up?  I have no idea.

> Exercise  20+ games of bowling a week, combat hapkido 2 times week,
> kickboxing 2-3 week.

Excellent.
DRA - 15 Mar 2008 03:53 GMT
Tried the induction, and literally would zone out on 20 grams a day.  So, I
moved up to net 40 or so and all was well.  I found my key is some grain and
some fruit.  This helps curb my severe sugar / gluten cravings.  I follow
the older Protein Power program from Dr. Mead.

I was a completive power lifter, and got hurt.  So I guess the muscle is
helping my metabolism thus helping me loose the weight at a fast pace.  In
the next few weeks, I will be able to ever so gingerly begin weight training
again.

Thanks for the information...working hard to live longer.

"DRA" <damac...@tx.rr.com> wrote:

> A typical day:
> BK: Bacon, eggs, lc tortilla, coffee

Grain so you're not on an equivalent of Atkins Induction.

> Snack 1: Unsalted almonds or leftover breakfast
> LN: Chicken or beef, cabbage or spinach, olive oil used
> Snack 2: almonds or leftover lunch, cantaloupe or berries if I have them.
> Dinner: Steak and more steak, two-three servings of lc veggies.
> Before Bed: glass of lc milk
> Supplements: potent multi, C, b-complex, potassium, calcium / mag.

Note that potassium tablets are limited to 99mg because
of interactions with specific diruetic BP meds.  You want
to check yours with a pharmacist and after that consider
that 99mg is so tiny it's not worth taking those tablets.
A half teaspoon of lite salt sprinkled on dinner makes up
for many of them.

Quite low in carbs but you've started recently so may as well
be quite low at this point.  Very good food and supplements
overall.

> Started Feb 1 at 371 lbs., now at 335 lbs. @ 53 yrs.

36 pounds in 6 weeks.  That's the sort of warp speed that
gets its own Star Trek episode.  Have you turned into a
tadpole?

Going by calories it's easy to figure that loss of fat at a
rate greater than 2 per week isn't ever going to be a matter
of calories.  Figuring you're currently losing fat at 3 per
pound because of how the hormones work and it isn't about
calories, that still gives almost 20 pounds of water lost.
That's a lot and it would have included minerals - The water
in blood is like seawater.

If you lost 18-20 pounds of water would it take 6 weeks to
catch up?  I have no idea.

> Exercise 20+ games of bowling a week, combat hapkido 2 times week,
> kickboxing 2-3 week.

Excellent.
Pramesh Rutaji - 15 Mar 2008 04:36 GMT
>> A typical day:
>> BK:  Bacon, eggs, lc tortilla, coffee

>> Supplements: potent multi, C, b-complex, potassium, calcium / mag.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> A half teaspoon of lite salt sprinkled on dinner makes up
> for many of them.

I take get about 3 grams of potassium a day from taking 30 of these
small dosage pills.  I used to take potassium citrate in a prescription
formulation for kidney stone prevention, 60 meq a day.  Unfortunately,
it wasn't clear how much potassium I was getting.  1 meq of potassium
citrate is how much potassium citrate in mg?  And potassium citrate is
about 1/3 potassium.  In any case, the price for a prescription versed
over the counter is astronomical.

Another choice I've seen is the use of water softener salts, a
particular kind that will provides the potassium desired at a really
really cheap price.  One can get a 50 lb bag to last ages.

Maximum daily amount of potassium is somewhere at around 17-21 grams
depending on who you believe.  The cave man diet provided round 11 grams
a day.

Signature

Pramesh Rutaji

p297tongue6221@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply

Harold Groot - 15 Mar 2008 04:02 GMT
>Does anyone else suffer from leg cramps while LC.  I drink plenty of water,
>and keep the calcium up, but still get many nighttime cramps.  Any
>suggestions?
>Don

As you've seen from other responses, there are several things that you
can try.  Some people get better results from one thing, others from
something else.

For ME the critical thing seems to be magnesium.  Try 500 mg/day of
magnesium oxide (a cheap form) and see if that helps.  If that's also
the critical thing for YOU, it should stop the cramps within a day, or
maybe two days if you're very depleted.

You mentioned taking Potassium - but you don't mention the dose you're
taking.  In the USA, the non-prescription supplements are limited to
99 mg of elemental potassium.  If it has a large number like "650 mg
potassium carbonate" that gets you 99 mg potassium and 551 mg
carbonate".  The recommended daily allowance of potassium is roughly
3000-3500 mg, so just taking a couple of 99 mg pills won't do you very
much good.  Using Lite Salt (half KCl, half NaCl) or even better Salt
Substitute (entirely KCl) in your cooking/on your dinner table is a
fast and cheap way to significantly boost your potassium.  Some people
don't like the taste (most complaints are of a "metallic" taste) while
others have no problems with it.  I find it has a slighly different
"warmth" or "mouth feel" but the taste is just fine for me.  You can
also ask your doctor about precription-strength potassium supplements
(Slo-K 800, for example, gives you 800 mg per pill in a time-release
formula and you might take up to 3/day.)  You need to watch out for
drug interactions, though.  If you are taking "potassium sparing"
blood pressure medications this is especially important.  Note also
that replacing the sodium found in normal table salt with the
potassium in the salt substitutes can also lower blood pressure in
some people all by itself.  Not everyone is sodium sensitive, but a
significant number of people are. This is just another point where
each person needs to find out how THEIR body responds.

As others have mentioned, extra calcium helps some people and quinine
helps some people.  Calcium can reduce the body's ability to absorb
some medications and nutrients so as a default (i.e. until you've
researched it) you should take other medicines or supplements a couple
of hours apart from when you take calcium. A doctor or pharmacist can
help tell you if anything you take would be affected by the calcium.
Noel O'Gara - 20 Mar 2008 00:35 GMT
> Does anyone else suffer fromlegcramps while LC.  I drink plenty of water,
> and keep the calcium up, but still get many nighttime cramps.  Any
> suggestions?
>
> Don
hey Don forget all that bull about pottassium and salt and just get
this.
Here is  a simple  cure for cramp in the leg calf.
When you feel it coming on, (I normally get a second or two warning
before it
hits home) push your legs straight down if lying in bed and cock your
toes
up towards your face as hard as you can. Hold this rigid position for
several seconds and then relax.
You must think quickly to react as I have stated but it always works
and the
cramp pain is avoided.
Often it is the action of stretching your legs in the bed and pushing
the
toes out and down that triggers the cramp. Once you master the
technique you
will never have another painful  leg cramp.
Pramesh Rutaji - 20 Mar 2008 01:15 GMT
>> Does anyone else suffer fromlegcramps while LC.  I drink plenty of water,
>> and keep the calcium up, but still get many nighttime cramps.  Any
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> technique you
> will never have another painful  leg cramp.

Or, you can do what I used to do and tighten your calf and thigh as hard
as you can with your toes pointed away from you, the opposite direction
to what you do.  After about 10 seconds I slowly relax all and have
successfully avoided the cramp.  I don't get cramps anymore since I
started taking a zillion supplements a day many years ago.

Signature

Pramesh Rutaji

p297tongue6221@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply

DRA - 21 Mar 2008 14:20 GMT
Thanks, I do this for the cramps in my calf.  The bad ones are when the toes
spreadout, then anything you do triggers the calf, then its OMG.

I have been taking an extra 300 mg potassium, and eating more potass rich
foods; this seems to be working.  I have had a few cramps, but much much
less.

On Mar 14, 1:08 pm, "DRA" <damac...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
> Does anyone else suffer fromlegcramps while LC. I drink plenty of water,
> and keep the calcium up, but still get many nighttime cramps. Any
> suggestions?
>
> Don
hey Don forget all that bull about pottassium and salt and just get
this.
Here is  a simple  cure for cramp in the leg calf.
When you feel it coming on, (I normally get a second or two warning
before it
hits home) push your legs straight down if lying in bed and cock your
toes
up towards your face as hard as you can. Hold this rigid position for
several seconds and then relax.
You must think quickly to react as I have stated but it always works
and the
cramp pain is avoided.
Often it is the action of stretching your legs in the bed and pushing
the
toes out and down that triggers the cramp. Once you master the
technique you
will never have another painful  leg cramp.
 
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