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Guys that workout in here pls

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Liam T. - 19 Jul 2008 19:15 GMT
Hello There,

Its a month that I started low carb, and I don't have energy to
workout.....

I do the eliptical  for 10 minutes and I'm burned out, where before I
could do 40 minutes at a higher bar.

I can walk on the treadwill.......

I can do some weights but not like before, seems i'm losing muscle....

I'm on induction , I eat lean meat salad, 4 cups veggie max, olive
oil, no fruit milk starches pasta potatoes etc
About 120 grms of protein a day, maybe 20 grms carb.

My Doc says don't bother doing cardio to lose weight because I'm
insulin resistant (i should do it for improing heart), says I should
do weights to increase muscle and metabolism.

I try to go workout everyday (i'm on a mission to bring my blood
pressure down)

But I feel like i'm going nowhere, seems almost the more I try to
workout , the less I'm losing weight?

In what way are you working out? Is it helping? Are you losing muscle?

Thanks
FOB - 19 Jul 2008 21:18 GMT
So up the carbs, induction is two weeks, then you start adding carbs.  They
do say that weight training is more helpful for weight loss than cardio.  It
builds muscles that burn more calories just by being there.

| Hello There,
|
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
|
| Thanks
Hannah Gruen - 20 Jul 2008 15:03 GMT
Yeah... remember the days when a frequent response here was "RTFB"?

One major reason people get started on LC, but fail to do well, is that they
are doing some home-concocted version that they kinda made up after reading
a chapter, or a few pages, of Atkin, Eades etc.... or just an article in a
magazine... or based on a friend's description of the program. Sometimes
they actually read the program but don't understand and/or follow it.

A lot of people don't do well on 20 g/day, especially in the first months.
Some people need to add more low-GI carbs in order to get decent
high-intensity workouts in. Others do not. Also, the OP should keep inind
that it can take months to fully adjust to LC. Probably longer if you're
older and/or definitely insulin resistant.

For me, I did'nt really do a lot of exercise, other than walking and some
aerobics, right after I went LC. After a few months I started longer hikes
in the hills, and bicycle riding including hills. I've never in my life had
greater stamina than on LC. I just do better burning fat rather than sugar.
But also, I "trained" on LC, and that is an important step... don't expect
to go from exercising/working out on high carb, and then move to LC and hit
the same level in a few weeks. Usually ain't gonna happen. Build up
gradually, training your body to use fatty acids more efficiently. Again
like most of LC, YMMV (your mileage may vary).

HG

> So up the carbs, induction is two weeks, then you start adding carbs.
> They
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> |
> | Thanks
Liam T. - 20 Jul 2008 15:52 GMT
> Yeah... remember the days when a frequent response here was "RTFB"?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> magazine... or based on a friend's description of the program. Sometimes
> they actually read the program but don't understand and/or follow it.

Why don't you shove you're " holier than thou" attitude up your
*** ?   YEAH.....  REMEMBER  THE DAYS THAT PEOPLE tried to help rather
than "thinking you know everything" ?  Or jumping to a conclusion?

I was just trying to get a feel of what other folks are going thru
with the exercise part........I am doing the diet under the doctors
supervision and he does sometimes extend the induction phase, and yes
I'm following the book  OK?

You're second part of your response is welcome,  its constructive.

Thanks to the first poster (FOB)
Marsha - 20 Jul 2008 16:59 GMT
> Why don't you shove you're " holier than thou" attitude up your
> *** ?   YEAH.....  REMEMBER  THE DAYS THAT PEOPLE tried to help rather
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> supervision and he does sometimes extend the induction phase, and yes
> I'm following the book  OK?

You obviously haven't read this group much.  Hannah doesn't have a
"holier than thou bone" in her body.

Marsha/Ohio
Liam T. - 20 Jul 2008 18:41 GMT
> You obviously haven't read this group much.  Hannah doesn't have a
> "holier than thou bone" in her body.
>
> Marsha/Ohio

Possible,..... I have just started reading here but,   then what was
the need for a reply like this:

Yeah... remember the days when a frequent response here was "RTFB"?

> One major reason people get started on LC, but fail to do well, is that they
> are doing some home-concocted version that they kinda made up after reading
> a chapter, or a few pages, of Atkin, Eades etc.... or just an article in a
> magazine... or based on a friend's description of the program. Sometimes
> they actually read the program but don't understand and/or follow it.

In case you missed it RTFB means "read the f.cking book", just because
you guys click with her, dosen't make it right.
Susan - 20 Jul 2008 18:46 GMT
> Possible,..... I have just started reading here but,   then what was
> the need for a reply like this:
>
> Yeah... remember the days when a frequent response here was "RTFB"?

You were way out of line.  The folks who responded that way were
aggressively disrespectful and fed up, too.  Hannah was helpful, always is.

> In case you missed it RTFB means "read the f.cking book", just because
> you guys click with her, dosen't make it right.

You may find that you're just too thin skinned to hang out on usenet.

We know what it means, we've been reading and posting here for about a
decade, many/most of us.

Susan
Liam T. - 20 Jul 2008 19:09 GMT
> You may find that you're just too thin skinned to hang out on usenet.

I'm comfortable on the net, not too thin skinned.  You guys are just
her friends and you're backing her up even if you fail to acknowledge
that the first part of her post was  condescending .  Great friends
Hannah..... maybe you folks should make an effort on being honest and
tell her the truth rather than backing her up no matter what!!

> We know what it means, we've been reading and posting here for about a
> decade, many/most of us.

So you have been her for deacades? Good for you........
Susan - 20 Jul 2008 19:24 GMT
>>You may find that you're just too thin skinned to hang out on usenet.
>
> I'm comfortable on the net, not too thin skinned.  You guys are just
> her friends and you're backing her up even if you fail to acknowledge
> that the first part of her post was  condescending .

I wouldn't call her a "friend" so much as a poster I've been familiar
with for years, as compared to your lack of experience and hair trigger
reaction.

 Great friends
> Hannah..... maybe you folks should make an effort on being honest and
> tell her the truth rather than backing her up no matter what!!

I always tell the truth, so trust me when I tell you you're really a
total jerk and that this will be my last response to you.

>>We know what it means, we've been reading and posting here for about a
>>decade, many/most of us.
>
> So you have been her for deacades? Good for you........

You have reading comprehension problems, which explains a lot.

Susan
Liam T. - 20 Jul 2008 19:36 GMT
>   Great friends
>
> I always tell the truth, so trust me when I tell you you're really a
> total jerk and that this will be my last response to you.

Now I really trust you....Thank God  its your last response as I never
asked you for a response. (and never called you names, says something
about you)
Nina - 20 Jul 2008 19:06 GMT
>> You obviously haven't read this group much.  Hannah doesn't have a
>> "holier than thou bone" in her body.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Yeah... remember the days when a frequent response here was "RTFB"?

"Remember when...." is not the same thing as saying "what I am telling
you to do is..."
Doug Freyburger - 21 Jul 2008 00:05 GMT
> Its a month that I started low carb, and I don't have energy to
> workout.....

You're supposed to start by taking it esy and then increase
the duration and/or intensity over time.  What you describe
is hardly surprising.

> ... seems i'm losing muscle....

Nope.  Not how it works.  The transistion from carb
fuel to fat fuel doesn't consume muscle.

> I'm on induction

Induction is 2 weeks so I agree with Hannah that you
need to read the book.

> I eat lean meat salad, 4 cups veggie max, olive
> oil, no fruit milk starches pasta potatoes etc

What you've descried is combining low fat with low carb.
That's somethng else cautioned against in the book.

> About 120 grms of protein a day, maybe 20 grms carb.

Okay.  And grams or calories of fat?  All I can guess
from your description is not enough.

> My Doc says don't bother doing cardio to lose weight because I'm
> insulin resistant (i should do it for improing heart), says I should
> do weights to increase muscle and metabolism.

Low carb should handle insulin resistant but it isn't a
fast transistion.  I disagree with your doc as I think
your combination is fine.  It's just starting easy and
building back up that you're not doing.

> I try to go workout everyday (i'm on a mission to bring my blood
> pressure down)

How about aerobic or resistance in any one day.

> But I feel like i'm going nowhere, seems almost the more I try to
> workout , the less I'm losing weight?

Seems is one of those magic words.  Just to check -
You're aware that when exercise programs are increased
the muscles hoard glycogen dissolved in water, right?  So
any new exercise plan masks loss early on.

> In what way are you working out?

Treadill some days, Bowflex some days.

> Is it helping?

Sure.  Noting that I followed the directions in the book, went
easy early on, was on Induction 14 not 15 days, took into
account that exercise does burn a mix of carbs and fat and
so didn't try my darnedest to blast my muscles with an
unworkable mix.

> Are you losing muscle?

Nope.  High fat low carb ensures that.
Liam T. - 21 Jul 2008 00:54 GMT
Thanks so much for the feedback Doug,

> Induction is 2 weeks so I agree with Hannah that you
> need to read the book.

My doctor often stretches the induction (its a metabolic diet) so
indeed I'm following the instructions and reading the book.

> Okay.  And grams or calories of fat?  All I can guess
> from your description is not enough.

The fat is about 107 grams a day mostly from xtra v olive oil (the
diet allows all the olive oil you want)

> Sure.  Noting that I followed the directions in the book, went
> easy early on, was on Induction 14 not 15 days, took into
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Nope.  High fat low carb ensures that.

Thanks, I'm going to try to do my weights first and  do a little
cardio afterwards and gradually increase , hopefully by then I will
getting more carbs and I'll be a little more used to it.

Cheers
Hannah Gruen - 21 Jul 2008 13:18 GMT
Liam - good that you are not trying to do low-fat and low-carb. That usually
doesn't work well, or work for long. You also might want to listen to Jimmie
Moore's interview with Eric Morrison. It's interesting to hear from a
trainer who uses and endorses a reduced-carb diet, as so many do not. I
think you might like this. This is the general URL for his podcast. You'll
need to page down (and eventually go to the archives) to find the Eric
Morrison interview.

<http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/>

I'm sorry if I came off as condescending or harsh. I maybe was being a bit
condescending, I'll admit. The standard on this ng has always been pretty
high in terms of expecting newcomers to have already done a fair amount of
homework.

The RTFB comment was kind of a nostalgic reminiscence directed more at the
oldies who come here... I think we all remember when this was one of the few
places on the net to discuss LC, and there would often be upwards of
hundreds to a thousand posts a day (!). It truly was not directed at you.

Liam I hope you stick around. The people remaining her have years and years
of experience at LC'ing. You'll get some of the best, most imformed
information on the internet. You probably need to work on developing a
little thicker skin... usenet is almost by definition a little wild and
wooly. But as far as I'm concerned you're quite welcome here.

Hannah

The fat is about 107 grams a day mostly from xtra v olive oil (the
diet allows all the olive oil you want)

Thanks, I'm going to try to do my weights first and  do a little
cardio afterwards and gradually increase , hopefully by then I will
getting more carbs and I'll be a little more used to it.
Liam T. - 21 Jul 2008 22:38 GMT
. You also might want to listen to Jimmie > Moore's interview with
Eric Morrison. It's interesting to hear from a
> trainer who uses and endorses a reduced-carb diet, as so many do not. I
> think you might like this. This is the general URL for his podcast. You'll
> need to page down (and eventually go to the archives) to find the Eric
> Morrison interview.
>
> <http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/>

Thanks for this link, I found the interview interesting, from what I
understood he has a "carbo cheat day" which I guess can be
contoversial for many into low carbs.
I heard about it before with either the "ketogenic diet" of Lyle
McDonald or Body Opus from Dan Duchaine.  You go low carb during the
week and then load carbs on the weekend, then do the hardest workout
on Mondays....
Apparently Eric Morrison is in my neck of the woods...so I might look
him up.

> I'm sorry if I came off as condescending or harsh. I maybe was being a bit
> condescending, I'll admit. The standard on this ng has always been pretty
> high in terms of expecting newcomers to have already done a fair amount of
> homework.

I respect that you say this,  I appreciate it.

> The RTFB comment was kind of a nostalgic reminiscence directed more at the
> oldies who come here... I think we all remember when this was one of the few
> places on the net to discuss LC, and there would often be upwards of
> hundreds to a thousand posts a day (!). It truly was not directed at you.

Sorry for this misunderstanding....(I'm blaming the induction  ;)

> Liam I hope you stick around. The people remaining her have years and years
> of experience at LC'ing. . But as far as I'm concerned you're quite welcome here.

Thank you kindly, I'm scrambling like crazy to get the maximum info
that is out there....my personal Doc was about to fire me unless I was
going to start taking blood pressure pills, which I really don't want
to take, family ,stress etc
Fortuntely with in 4 days of starting the diet my BP dropped to normal
(diuretic effect of low carb) and I'm so excited, I want it to
continue and keep it down and lose weight. Feels great....
This  issue is really important for me now...thats why I'm asking left
and right......and rushing

You guys have tons of interesting info here.......

Anyhow ..thanks  will talk to you latter  ;-)

> Hannah
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> cardio afterwards and gradually increase , hopefully by then I will
> getting more carbs and I'll be a little more used to it.
RRzVRR - 22 Jul 2008 10:18 GMT
> . You also might want to listen to Jimmie > Moore's interview with
> Eric Morrison. It's interesting to hear from a
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> week and then load carbs on the weekend, then do the hardest workout
> on Mondays...

You may want to Google the web (and this NG) for TKD -
Targeted Ketogenic Diet.  Although it may not be what you
need, it is another option.

> Apparently Eric Morrison is in my neck of the woods...so I might look
> him up.
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>> cardio afterwards and gradually increase , hopefully by then I will
>> getting more carbs and I'll be a little more used to it.

Signature

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"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
 -Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

Doug Freyburger - 22 Jul 2008 16:04 GMT
> ... I found the interview interesting, from what I
> understood he has a "carbo cheat day" which I guess can be
> contoversial for many into low carbs.

Weight lifters tend to do this type of cycle.  It's not a cheat
day - It's a switch from low carb to low fat and then back to
low carb again.  View it as a cheat day and there's little
chance you'll get it right.

The reason its controvertial is this - If you do view it as a
cheat then it erodes your commitment to the plan.  If you
are subject to carb cravings when starting low carb (most
are but not all) then you're putting yourself through the
hardest part of the first year of low carbing again and again
every week.

> I heard about it before with either the "ketogenic diet" of Lyle
> McDonald or Body Opus from Dan Duchaine.  You go low carb during the
> week and then load carbs on the weekend, then do the hardest workout
> on Mondays....

Biochemical reasons why this works.  Note that weight
lifters use it to push their body fat percentage down well
below the ideal levels so question its use if that's not your
goal.

Look to studies of T3 thyriod levels of folks who stay at
or below 20 for a long time and you'll see mention that
T3 output goes down about two weeks in *  My informal
data says that actually depends on amount to lose but
I'd need studies to move that bit from a hypothesis to a
theory.  Thus a one day switch from low carb to low fat
and back keeps the T3 level high and thus the basal
metabolism high.

Also folks on Atkins who to the ketostix to measure
their ketone output know the typical pattern of high
output in the first two weeks then low output from then
on - The weekly cycle attempts to keep the body in that
initial over reaction and I think that's why they can push
body fat percentage below ideal.  Everything I've seen in
long term low carbers who do mild systems like Atkins,
Eades, South Beach (must learn how to spell
Atagoston ...) is that anyone who doesn't do calorie
reduction doesn't lose the last 10 pounds so low carbing
alone won't drive folks below ideal weight or even to it.
Some use the appetite suppression of low carbing to
reduce appetite for the last 10, some use this cycling
trick, some are happy enough with their loss they settle.

Next is leptin.  It's released by stored fat so the less
stored fat the less leptin and the lower the loss rate.
It's also released by the liver that somehow reflects the
highest carb intake in the last few months.  Stay too
low, leptin from the liver eventually drives loss rate down
to zero - That's just another reason why every plan out
there increases carb quota over time or keeps it high
the entire time.  And again the cycling trick handles
leptin by the weekly switch from low carb to low fat and
back to low carb again.  Since there's a weekly high
carb day the liver's track of the highest carb intake in
the last several months always has a high level.

I consider cycling to be overkill and a way to handle
not following the directions in the first place.  I know it
works and why, but I'd rather see folks march their carb
quotas up on schedule than not.  Giving yourself
hormonal metabolic problems and then using cycling to
cure those problems just doesn't seem right to me
compared to not triggering those problems in the first
place by following the schedule.  I view the attitudes
involved as too close to fad diet versus sustainable
lifestyle change.

> > The RTFB comment was kind of a nostalgic reminiscence directed more at the
> > oldies who come here... I think we all remember when this was one of the few
> > places on the net to discuss LC, and there would often be upwards of
> > hundreds to a thousand posts a day (!). It truly was not directed at you.

It's also universally true good advice.  Consider what went into
writing each of the popular books - A decade or more of study
and experimentation to find non-obvious actions that work
better than the obvious.  Then compare with the experience
level and typical conclusion of newbies with a month of
experience - So many newbies don't want to do the
non-obvious steps because they think the obvious is the best
course.  The problem is nearly all newbies conclude that if
low carb is good then lower carb is better - If that were actually
true every single low carb book out there would teach exactly
that.

> Fortuntely with in 4 days of starting the diet my BP dropped to normal
> (diuretic effect of low carb) and I'm so excited, I want it to
> continue and keep it down and lose weight. Feels great....

Doctor Atkins claimed that the single most predictable outcome
of low carbing was reduced blood pressure.  It's a strange claim
from someone who made his living getting people to work on
losing stored fat but it sure matches my experience of a decade
reading what people report.
Hannah Gruen - 23 Jul 2008 00:44 GMT
"Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote ..

Doctor Atkins claimed that the single most predictable outcome
of low carbing was reduced blood pressure.  It's a strange claim
from someone who made his living getting people to work on
losing stored fat but it sure matches my experience of a decade
reading what people report.

===============================================

Don't forget, Doug, that Dr. Atkins was a cardiologist before he became a
diet guru. So he would be very likely to have focused on the BP-lowering
effects of LC, as well as those involving weight loss.

HG
Doug Freyburger - 21 Jul 2008 15:18 GMT
> > Induction is 2 weeks ...
>
> My doctor often stretches the induction (its a metabolic diet) so
> indeed I'm following the instructions and reading the book.

You understand that's in direct conflict with intensity of
exercise, right?  There are reasons for staying at 20 for
longer than 14 days but none of those reasons center
around either loss rates or exercise intensity.  But it is
your choice to have directions that interfere with exercise
intensity.  Shrug, work on endurance on that treadmill for
the nonce.

Any of the metabolic reasons tend to work just as well
on OWL as on Induction.  The reason is ketonuria.  As
long as you're in ketonuria your body is burning fat as
its primary fuel plus it's burning fat fast enough to
generate not just ketones (ketosis does this but can
be hard to detect) but ketones at a high enough level
to show in the urine.  Once in ketonuria it's unusual for
further carb reduction to make metabolic differences.
Fat can be burned slowly into acetyl-CoA without
ketones, quickly with ketones that are hard to detect,
very quickly with ketones enough to show in the urine.
Ketonuria is about a subtle difference between that
quickly and very quickly, but it happens to be a
distinction that's easy to test.

Remember that OWL starts with a march of weekly
increases in carb quota until you fall out of ketonuria
(CCLL being 5-10 below that point to be just barely in
ketonuria to avoid metabolic defenses against low carb
to develop) then a bit low to pop back into ketonuria
then cruise at CCLL in ketonuria.  If the goal of your
doc's plan is to be in ketonuria then he or she is the
one that needs to read the book.  It's disgusting how
few doctors have a clue about the 4 phases of Atkins,
even the ones that are pro low carb.

> > Okay.  And grams or calories of fat?  All I can guess
> > from your description is not enough.
>
> The fat is about 107 grams a day mostly from xtra v olive oil (the
> diet allows all the olive oil you want)

Very cool.  If you work the carb and protein numbers
then fill with fat to reach a reasonable total calories
it generally comes out 3 digits for the gram number.
It doesn't get much press but when you work the
numers for yourself nearly everyone comes out to 3
digit fat grams.

I don't accept that fat grams from olive oil beat fat grams
from animal sources but that's a topic about types of
fatty acid that's its own entire thread.  Still, I have read
at least one study that said a gram for gram or calorie
for calorie substitution replacing saturated fats with
polyunsaturated fats does give better loss rates.  So
there doesn't seem to be a down side to doing it that
way other than extra effort.

> > > Are you losing muscle?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> cardio afterwards and gradually increase , hopefully by then I will
> getting more carbs and I'll be a little more used to it.

Slow but sure wins the race.  Build up and see how the
endurance does a gradual build up past your pre-start
level.  Once at closer to 50 carb grams see how your
peak weights aren't any different that your pre-start
levels.
Susan - 21 Jul 2008 15:57 GMT
>>>Induction is 2 weeks ...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> intensity.  Shrug, work on endurance on that treadmill for
> the nonce.

Here's evidence to the contrary:

Metabolism. 1983 Aug;32(8):769-76.     Related Articles, Links

    The human metabolic response to chronic ketosis without caloric
restriction: preservation of submaximal exercise capability with
reduced carbohydrate oxidation.

    Phinney SD, Bistrian BR, Evans WJ, Gervino E, Blackburn GL.

    To study the effect of chronic ketosis on exercise performance in
endurance-trained humans, five well-trained cyclists were fed a
eucaloric balanced diet (EBD) for one week providing 35-50 kcal/kg/d,
1.75 g protein/kg/d and the remainder of kilocalories as two-thirds
carbohydrate (CHO) and one-third fat. This was followed by four weeks
of a eucaloric ketogenic diet (EKD), isocaloric and isonitrogenous
with the EBD but providing less than 20 g CHO daily. Both diets were
appropriately supplemented to meet the recommended daily allowances
for vitamins and minerals. Pedal ergometer testing of maximal oxygen
uptake (VO2max) was unchanged between the control week (EBD-1) and
week 3 of the ketogenic diet (EKD-3). The mean ergometer endurance
time for continuous exercise to exhaustion (ENDUR) at 62%-64% of
VO2max was 147 minutes at EBD-1 and 151 minutes at EKD-4. The ENDUR
steady-state RQ dropped from 0.83 to 0.72 (P less than 0.01) from
EBD-1 to EKD-4. In agreement with this were a three-fold drop in
glucose oxidation (from 15.1 to 5.1 mg/kg/min, P less than 0.05) and a
four-fold reduction in muscle glycogen use (0.61 to 0.13 mmol/kg/min,
P less than 0.01). Neither clinical nor biochemical evidence of
hypoglycemia was observed during ENDUR at EKD-4. These results
indicate that aerobic endurance exercise by well-trained cyclists was
not compromised by four weeks of ketosis. This was accomplished by a
dramatic physiologic adaptation that conserved limited carbohydrate
stores (both glucose and muscle glycogen) and made fat the predominant
muscle substrate at this submaximal power level.

    PMID: 6865776 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

> Any of the metabolic reasons tend to work just as well
> on OWL as on Induction.  The reason is ketonuria.  As
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> be hard to detect) but ketones at a high enough level
> to show in the urine.

This is total BS.  Ketonuria isn't the goal, ketosis is.
Ketones in your urine may just mean you're eating too much fat and the
excess is showing up in your pee.

Ketosis occurs with our without ketonuria, which can also be absent if
you're burning all your ketones for fuel (more desirable than ketonuria)
or if you're very well hydrated.

Susan
Roger Zoul - 21 Jul 2008 16:24 GMT
Susan,

That study seems to state that there is no loss in submaximal exercise
capability, ie, aerobic execise ability.
As one increases exercise intensity, you move more and more toward maximal
exercise capability, which the study
doesn't seem to address.  Of course, I don't know what "continuous exercise
to exhaustion" means in the context of this short blub.

> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
>
> Susan
Susan - 21 Jul 2008 16:30 GMT
> Susan,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> doesn't seem to address.  Of course, I don't know what "continuous exercise
> to exhaustion" means in the context of this short blub.

This may help:

http://www.proteinpower.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68

There's a link to a PDF that discusses adaptation and athletic performance.

My only point is that working out and low carb are not mutually exclusive.

Susan
Roger Zoul - 21 Jul 2008 18:12 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> My only point is that working out and low carb are not mutually exclusive.

Well, I certainly agree with that!  I'll get the PDF, too.
Roger Zoul - 21 Jul 2008 21:25 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> There's a link to a PDF that discusses adaptation and athletic
> performance.

This was a good read.  Thanks.
Liam T. - 21 Jul 2008 22:53 GMT
> You understand that's in direct conflict with intensity of
> exercise, right?  There are reasons for staying at 20 for
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> intensity.  Shrug, work on endurance on that treadmill for
> the nonce.

Thanks, I have changed my routine and started with the weights first
and can get a real good workout , I do the treadmill and the reclined
bike afterwards with less intensity but its ok......I'll talk to my
Doc and find out more details ......

> Any of the metabolic reasons tend to work just as well
> on OWL as on Induction.  The reason is ketonuria.  As
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> few doctors have a clue about the 4 phases of Atkins,
> even the ones that are pro low carb.

I'll find out more about reasons as why he's working this way, in
regards to the ketones I keep not showing them, perhaps I burn them
up, don't know . I'm still losing lots and being strict, so
whatever......

> > The fat is about 107 grams a day mostly from xtra v olive oil (the
> > diet allows all the olive oil you want)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> peak weights aren't any different that your pre-start
> levels.

Thanks we'll see what happens.........
Hollywood - 22 Jul 2008 18:00 GMT
> Hello There,

Hi.

> Its a month that I started low carb, and I don't have energy to
> workout.....

Not uncommon.

> I do the eliptical  for 10 minutes and I'm burned out, where before I
> could do 40 minutes at a higher bar.

Elliptical is probably a less than ideal machine for you to do cardio
with.
Biking and dreadmill are both better and closer to physiologically
correct.
There is no real natural movement that corresponds to what people do
on
an elliptical. As such, it can be bad for the hips and knees, while
feeling
easier on these than the bike or the 'mill.

FWIW: the dreadmill will also burn more calories for a given period
and
intensity.

> I can walk on the treadwill.......

Okay.

> I can do some weights but not like before, seems i'm losing muscle....

Unlikely.

> I'm on induction , I eat lean meat salad, 4 cups veggie max, olive
> oil, no fruit milk starches pasta potatoes etc
> About 120 grms of protein a day, maybe 20 grms carb.

Have read about the olive oil. don't worry about lean meat. waste of
time/money.

I am in the camp that read the book and gleaned that Induction could
be extended in the case of more weight to lose. Could be extended
out to six months, if I recall correctly. So, anyone who is telling
you
that it's 14 days, and not one minute longer, before you have to go
to 25g of carbs and working in new food items, is missing something
from the book.

PS- is there really that big a difference between 20g and 25g? I
haven't
noticed anything.

PPS- The increasing carb number in OWL is a ceiling (as is the 20 in
Induction or the 40 in Protein Power Life Plan). It is not a mandatory
daily achievement.

> My Doc says don't bother doing cardio to lose weight because I'm
> insulin resistant (i should do it for improing heart), says I should
> do weights to increase muscle and metabolism.

Well reasoned. Not that the cardio can't be useful for general health
and even weight loss. q.v. Intervals or HIIT. The best way to do
cardio.

> I try to go workout everyday (i'm on a mission to bring my blood
> pressure down)

You might look into lifting only 3 days a week, and at most, cardio
type stuff on the other days. You could probably dump the cardio
down to 2 days a week, on the days you don't lift.

Lift with full body programs.

And, as others have said, adaptation to fat burning takes time. Take
it slow. You're going to feel weak for a bit. In time, it comes back.

> But I feel like i'm going nowhere, seems almost the more I try to
> workout , the less I'm losing weight?

It's not just about the weight. It's about what's actually weighing
you
down. I'm gonna spare you the science and suggest that you're doing
fine.

> In what way are you working out? Is it helping? Are you losing muscle?

Not losing muscle. That's for sure.
I do the treadmill, 20 minutes, with running intervals.
I lift weights, full body workouts. I sometimes do circuits. I
sometimes do
slow lifts. I sometimes do dynamic lifts. Changing it up every month
or
so.

It's very hard when you're just getting back into it from carb-ville.
It
takes time for your body to adjust to fat as fuel for this type of
thing.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Liam T. - 22 Jul 2008 23:31 GMT
> I am in the camp that read the book and gleaned that Induction could
> be extended in the case of more weight to lose. Could be extended
> out to six months, if I recall correctly. So, anyone who is telling
> you

Thanks for the reply.......the fellow here says he's been on induction
a year :   http://youtube.com/watch?v=uMKVNzj-RZE&feature=user

You wouldn't know if this guy represents the Atkins foundation or is
he a "Joe off the street" that decided to make all these videos?

Dreadmill?  LOL,  I know what you mean.....
FOB - 23 Jul 2008 01:46 GMT
I don't see anything there that indicates he is associated with Atkins and
he doesn't appear very professional.

| Thanks for the reply.......the fellow here says he's been on induction
| a year :   http://youtube.com/watch?v=uMKVNzj-RZE&feature=user
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
|
| Dreadmill?  LOL,  I know what you mean.....
 
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