Ketone levels

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Brown Cat - 09 Jan 2009 12:03 GMT

Hello,

I've just started the Atkins diet and after 5 days of being in the diet I
got some Ketostix. It's showing that I'm just over 0.8 g/L. It seems
awfully high and the paper that comes with it warns that I should see a
doctor if it reaches that level.

Is this level normal (safe) for someone in the Atkins induction phase or
should I try and increase my carbs to reduce my ketones?

I'm also doing about 25 mins of running every other day.

BC

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Harold Groot - 09 Jan 2009 14:05 GMT

>Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>I'm also doing about 25 mins of running every other day.
>BC

That level (equivalent to 80 mg/dL, a common unit of measurement on
containers) is no problem for dietary-induced Ketosis. That paper is
aimed at people who have diabetes who are not on a lowcarb diet. If
such people had a reading that high it would indicate that they were
in a condition called Keto-Acidosis. That is a serious condition and
yes, those people should see a doctor if they have such readings. But
for dietary-induced Ketosis there is no problem.

Basically, the presence of Ketones shows that you're burning fat.
That's just what the lowcarb diet is designed to produce. While there
is no reason to try to deliberately keep it that high (you're still in
Ketosis and still burning fat at much lower readings), there's also no
reason to try to deliberately reduce it.

Every Atkins book I've ever seen explains this quite clearly. I've
you've got the book, please read the whole thing. If you don't have
the book and you're going on a second-hand explanation from someone
else, please get the actual book and read it (many libraries have it,
so it can often be free). There have been many TV and newspaper
articles about Atkins that have made significant factual errors about
just what the Atkins Diet is supposed to be and how it is supposed to
work. Get the book firsthand and read the whole thing.

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Doug Freyburger - 09 Jan 2009 19:57 GMT

> >I've just started the Atkins diet and after 5 days of being in the diet I
> >got some Ketostix. It's showing that I'm just over 0.8 g/L. It seems
> >awfully high and the paper that comes with it warns that I should see a
> >doctor if it reaches that level.

Please understand that for our purposes all the sticks can
tell us is positive (any color change away from beige towards
pink no matter how light or dark) or negative (unchanged
beige). It's not about high or low, just about yes or no. It's
more like a pregnangy test than like the stopwatch in a race.

> >Is this level normal (safe) for someone in the Atkins induction phase or
> >should I try and increase my carbs to reduce my ketones?

Dangerous levels can not be acheived by following the
directions of Induction including the mandatory daily
alotment of veggies. Editions 19993/1999 do mention a
system that might be able to drive the body into
generating dangerous levels but as long as regular
Induction 20 gram levels make the sticks turn you will
never have need for that.

> >I'm also doing about 25 mins of running every other day.

Excellent.

> That level (equivalent to 80 mg/dL, a common unit of measurement on
> containers) is no problem for dietary-induced Ketosis. That paper is
> aimed at people who have diabetes who are not on a lowcarb diet.

Well put. The sticks aren't designed for us. Their directions
aren't for us. The sticks don't have the level of accuracy that
we might want to use. They give us a yes/no reading and
nothing more.

> If
> such people had a reading that high it would indicate that they were
> in a condition called Keto-Acidosis. That is a serious condition and
> yes, those people should see a doctor if they have such readings. But
> for dietary-induced Ketosis there is no problem.

Ketoacidosis doesn't apply until the sticks turn dark black.
The problem with diabetes is the metabolic trouble can
build up slowly. If a diabetic goes to the doctor/hospital
with this reading they won't wait until they are in a coma
and someone else sends them their. Prevention is a lot
better than risking life.

> Basically, the presence of Ketones shows that you're burning fat.
> That's just what the lowcarb diet is designed to produce. While there
> is no reason to try to deliberately keep it that high (you're still in
> Ketosis and still burning fat at much lower readings), there's also no
> reason to try to deliberately reduce it.

Beyond that, there's a common sequence of events that
usually happens that isn't in the book, isn't in the directions
on the sticks, but that commonly happens anyways. In the
first two weeks a lot of people see the sticks turn pretty
dark. That's a temporary overreaction by the body to a
sudden change in dietary carbs. After about two weeks
there is often a week or two with an overreaction going the
other way where no matter what you do to your carb intake
level the sticks go very light. Then somewhere in weeks
3 or 4 the readings settle into a level that's a lot lighter than
the first week. That entire pattern happens naturally and is
to be expected. The pattern is NOT the result of changing
carb levels on schedule or whatever else you may want to
do.

> Every Atkins book I've ever seen explains this quite clearly.

You have a very active imagination if you think Dr A was
clear on this point. He wrote "purple" in some of his editions
and ever since very many folks have strived to make the
sticks turn darker because they see pink not purple. Dr A
also used "ketosis" and "lose" interchangably as if the two
words meant the exact same thing - They don't.

> I've you've got the book, please read the whole thing.

Please read the book like a college text from the start to
the recipes. Then scan the recipes for ideas. What you
do want to read the book for is directions on what to *do*
and what schedule to do them on. What you don't want to
read the book for is the underlying science (I do not believe
Dr A ever learned why low carb works the way it does and
he was very clear he was a clinician not a scientist) or for
permission to do what you want to do (he worked decades
to build a process that works better than the obvious so
don't go through the book looking for permission when you
decide you want to do the obvious). Read it for the two
separate interwoven processes it tells you to do and for the
way the process is fully customized to how your body
reacts to each type of food.

> If you don't have
> the book and you're going on a second-hand explanation from someone
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> just what the Atkins Diet is supposed to be and how it is supposed to
> work. Get the book firsthand and read the whole thing.

In most cases second hand reports are worse than comic
book take offs on the actual process. Even controlled
scientific studies of low carb are often so wildly off process
they read like a Mad Magazine spoof of Atkins not what the
book describes to actually do.

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