Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / February 2009
So slow.....
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Martin Barrett - 26 Jan 2009 11:46 GMT Hi,
Been low carbing again for the last month, and the weight loss is steady but slow - around 1 pound per week. I know - I know - this is good - but it never was this slow before I fell off the wagon end of last year.
Especially annoyed as my TSH is .3 and free T4 over the top of the scale, so am borderline hyperT - which I would have thought would help with weight loss. Apparently not. (makes me irritable and fuzzy headed and sleepless though)
Moan over - back to my 20g carbs a day and the anti candida diet (no dairy or fruit or alcohol - just meat/fish and veggies/salad)
Martin
trader4@optonline.net - 26 Jan 2009 14:50 GMT > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Martin Imcreasing excercise has been known to work.
Doug Freyburger - 26 Jan 2009 16:31 GMT > Been low carbing again for the last month, and the weight loss is steady > but slow - around 1 pound per week. > I know - I know - this is good ... It may well be there's never been a dieter in history satisfied with their rate of loss. Nah, there's gotta be someone out there who is - I've just yet to encounter one in ten years of low carbing ... ;^)
I think wanting faster than you can get is a part of the deal. I also think that knowing that on an intellectual level helps a little but when it comes down to it what helps is to stay on plan and see lack of regain and new lows on a realistic time cycle. No one likes realistic time scales but realistic time scales are what actually happens.
> - but it never was this slow before I > fell off the wagon end of last year. I wonder how true that really is compared to the factors that apply. Stuff like seeing the initial carb loss that includes the water it was dissolved in, having more to lose giving faster loss rates, being more willing to follow the directions simply because that's what the book says to do next ...
Orlando Enrique Fiol - 26 Jan 2009 19:07 GMT martin.barrett@itv.com wrote:
>Been low carbing again for the last month, and the weight loss is steady >but slow - around 1 pound per week. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Moan over - back to my 20g carbs a day and the anti candida diet (no >dairy or fruit or alcohol - just meat/fish and veggies/salad) Too much fat in addition to those carbs might be stalling you. Try consuming only lean protein in addition to cutting the carbs.
Orlando
trader4@optonline.net - 26 Jan 2009 20:01 GMT > martin.barr...@itv.com wrote: > >Been low carbing again for the last month, and the weight loss is steady [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Orlando If that's the case, then how do you explain the concept of a fat fast, which is a technique to break stalls, which Atkins recommended. Plus, he's NOT even close to stalled. Also, curious concept going from "too much fat" to consuming only lean protein, which would be zero fat. I would also suggest that consuming only lean protein is a prescription for trouble. Fat keeps you satiated. It was avoiding fat and replacing it with carbs that made America fatter than ever.
Bottom line, what he's doing is working. He's losing a pound a week. What the hell do you expect? No need to screw it up.
Orlando Enrique Fiol - 27 Jan 2009 06:14 GMT >Also, curious concept going from >"too much fat" to consuming only lean protein, which would be zero >fat. I would also suggest that consuming only lean protein is a >prescription for trouble. Fat keeps you satiated. It was avoiding >fat and replacing it with carbs that made America fatter than ever. I never said zero fat; South Beach, which I prefer to Atkins, is almost like induction during its first phase, except that only lean meats, eggs and vegetable oils are permitted. This is mainly for people with astronomically high cholesterol. Even lean meats and mono unsaturated vegetable oils satiate just as much as animal or saturated fats. The true satiety comes from protein anyway.
Orlando
Roger Zoul - 27 Jan 2009 13:16 GMT >>Also, curious concept going from >>"too much fat" to consuming only lean protein, which would be zero [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Orlando What does
"Too much fat in addition to those carbs might be stalling you. Try consuming only lean protein in addition to cutting the carbs."
mean? It did sound as if you're saying "no fat".
How does one eat only protein anyway? Protein powder? Yuck.
Orlando Enrique Fiol - 27 Jan 2009 15:40 GMT rogerzoul2@hotmail.com wrote:
>How does one eat only protein anyway? Protein powder? Yuck. From meat, fish, eggs, cheese, soy products, even certain beans and legumes.
Orlando
Roger Zoul - 28 Jan 2009 01:33 GMT > rogerzoul2@hotmail.com wrote: >>How does one eat only protein anyway? Protein powder? Yuck. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Orlando Those don't give you protein only. Those give you fat, protein, and even carbs.
trader4@optonline.net - 27 Jan 2009 14:49 GMT > trad...@optonline.net wrote: > >Also, curious concept going from [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > induction during its first phase, except that only lean meats, eggs and > vegetable oils are permitted. You didn't say zero fat, but you did say that in addition to cutting carbs, to eat only lean protein. That would seem to exclude the vegetable oil and eggs. Somehow I don't think your above statement is what you really mean either, as I think SB's first phase is more than just that short list.
>This is mainly for people with astronomically > high cholesterol. Which has what to do with Martin's issue? It's pretty well established that dietary cholesterol isn't very well corelated to serum cholesterol. For example, most people switching to Atkins see their total cholesterol numbers either stay the same or improve, while HDL rises. This while eating more animal fats. I think in the real world dietary restrictions have to be so severe to make a significant change in serum chol, that from a practical sense, it just doesn't work.
>Even lean meats and mono unsaturated vegetable oils satiate > just as much as animal or saturated fats. The true satiety comes from protein > anyway. > > Orlando Which could you eat more of? Turkey breast or butter? And if you want to now include veg oils, how does that square with telling him to eat only lean protein?
Orlando Enrique Fiol - 27 Jan 2009 15:39 GMT >Which could you eat more of? Turkey breast or butter? I'd enjoy turkey breasts much more than thinly disguised or straight butter. Some people get off on fat, though.
>And if you want to now include veg oils, how does that square with telling him to eat only lean protein?
I only mentioned lean protein as an alternative to the fat fast he was proposing. Low carb doesn't necessarily equate to high saturated fat; it's just a question of what you want to replace the carbs. Some prefer to eat absurd amounts of green vegetables instead of carbs.
Orlando
Doug Freyburger - 27 Jan 2009 16:01 GMT > ... Some prefer to eat absurd > amounts of green vegetables instead of carbs. Wow. You have a serious language barrier. Any plant based foods have carbs. Plenty of animal based foods have carbs.
The word "absurd" in your statement above is meaningless without some clue on what portions you mean - In surveys of long term low carbers the largest commonality is they replaced starchy foods with vegetables lower in carbs. Would you say that carb eaters consume absurd amounts of potatoes or grain or whatever? I would say that. Do I now eat absurd quantities of low carb veggies? Folks who love junk food would say that.
trader4@optonline.net - 27 Jan 2009 23:57 GMT > trad...@optonline.net wrote: > >Which could you eat more of? Turkey breast or butter? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I only mentioned lean protein as an alternative to the fat fast he was > proposing. I must have missed where Martin was proposing a fat fast. All I recall was him complaining a bit that 1 lb a week wasn't as fast as he lost last time he went LC.
>Low carb doesn't necessarily equate to high saturated fat; it's just > a question of what you want to replace the carbs. Some prefer to eat absurd > amounts of green vegetables instead of carbs. > > Orlando Martin Barrett - 28 Jan 2009 10:09 GMT >> I only mentioned lean protein as an alternative to the fat fast he was >> proposing. > > I must have missed where Martin was proposing a fat fast. All I > recall was him complaining a bit that 1 lb a week wasn't as fast as he > lost last time he went LC. Yes - I wasn't proposing a fat fast - although not averse to the idea. I do enjoy a high percentage of fat in my diet, mostly from olive oil, lard and natural fat in eggs beef etc.
I was bemoaning the fact that even though my thyroid runs fast, it doesn't appear to help drop the pouinds ( as it does in some).
Slow has become zero this week, but I do know that weight happens in fits and starts and is not so easily predictable.
Thanks for the ideas guys!
Martin
Doug Freyburger - 29 Jan 2009 16:00 GMT > I was bemoaning the fact that even though my thyroid runs fast, it > doesn't appear to help drop the pouinds ( as it does in some). > > Slow has become zero this week, but I do know that weight happens in > fits and starts and is not so easily predictable. As happens so often there's advice on this topic from Dr Atkins that applies across the board to all dieters not just At-kids -
A stall is 4+ weeks without a new low, without a lost inch, without going off plan.
This definition is important because it teaches what is and what isn't reasonable in expectations and what is and isn't slow. At this point you've seen 4 new lows in the last 5 weeks. You're no where near stalled and not losing slowly.
I know it *feels* slow but when it comes down to it you could be seeing a new low daily and it would still *feel* slow. Loss rates aren't about feelings. Loss rates are about reality and what actually happens. It very hard to get past the feelings but it's mandatory. Let the feelings rule and eventually they will sap your resolve to stay on plan no matter what plan you're on. You've seen a new low very recently when viewed objectively - Focus on that and make sure it settles in.
Martin Barrett - 30 Jan 2009 17:18 GMT Thanks everyone for the support. This week I'm lost zero pounds - but not down hearted as my belt is suddenly looser.
Have a good weekend all! Martin
Doug Freyburger - 30 Jan 2009 18:26 GMT > This week I'm lost zero pounds - but not down hearted as my belt is > suddenly looser. Celebrate that more than a lost pound! Seriously, how many people diet to actually lose pounds not inches? The ones who have health issues related to severe obesity not the folks with 50 or so to lose. For most size is the real end - slimmer body - and the numbers on the scale are really an inaccurate side effect of our size that just happens to be easy to measure.
I'll take a belt notch over a new low any day!
Doug Freyburger - 26 Jan 2009 20:07 GMT > Too much fat in addition to those carbs might be stalling you. Try consuming > only lean protein in addition to cutting the carbs. Bad advice - Not true while on low carb. So long as your total calories are not out of line fat does not interfere with loss while on low carb. No matter that you may think it because it's obvious, obvious does not equal true.
Fat help suppress appetite - the form where it determines how long befor ethe next time you get hungry rather than the form that determines how full your stomach feels - and hence it actually leads to eating lower total calories. Try it and see.
There are also hormonal reasons that calorie for calorie fat leads to better loss than protein. Going low in fat pushes glucagon levels low and thus pushes low the rate fat is withdrawn from storage. It's part of the old "fat fast" experiment.
kickinkelly - 28 Jan 2009 15:35 GMT I am the same way. It takes a LOT of exercise to make me lose. I eat under 30 carbs a day and do not move a pound unless I get a lot of exercise.
I also have a weird thyroid that says I am hyperthyroid, yet I am chubby, sleepless, and always on the go.
WEIRD !!!
> Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Martin Jeri - 29 Jan 2009 17:13 GMT > Hi, > > Been low carbing again for the last month, and the weight loss is > steady but slow - around 1 pound per week. > I know - I know - this is good - but it never was this slow before I > fell off the wagon end of last year. <snip>
It's refreshing to hear someone say they know that slow and steady is good. If you think you should be losing a bit faster I'm just going to gently remind you that calories do count. :o) If you eat more calories than you burn it really doesn't matter how low carb you eat you won't lose. Check your calorie consumption and if it's too high either exercise more (best choice) or eat less.
 Signature Jeri "Change is inevitable, except from vending machines."
Martin Barrett - 17 Feb 2009 18:04 GMT Well guys - have discovered something interesting.
Like I said I was losing a pound a day, but that was while I stayed dairy free, no soda, and no coffee, not even decaff.
But in the last three weeks I have gained 3 pounds back, and all I did was add dairy back in.
Not added back in huge amounts either. Typically a spoon of cream on a very few berries, or a little cheese, a few ozs a day that's all.
And I also have started to feel spaced out and brain foggy - so I'm quite sure it's the dairy. I recognise this may be candida from googling around.
So, today I start back dairy free - shame as I love the stuff.
thanks Martin
Doug Freyburger - 17 Feb 2009 20:36 GMT > Well guys - have discovered something interesting. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Typically a spoon of cream on a very few berries, or a little cheese, a > few ozs a day that's all. Using the eliminate-and-challenge principle to find personal problem ingredients it doesn't take much.
> And I also have started to feel spaced out and brain foggy - so I'm > quite sure it's the dairy. This shows an interesting feature of eliminate-and-challenge processes - It is much easier to notice a symptom returning when an ingredient is added back in than it is to notice a symptom disappearing when an ingredient is removed. And to think that "spaced out and brain foggy" likely used to be your normal state back when you regularly had dairy.
Intolerance to dairy proteins and to lactose are common. You will want to double check at some point - In a few months of dairy free try adding a little dairy again and see if the same thing happens. You don't want to drop dairy forever if you just happened to suffer an alergy from pollen this time! To be extra sure a few months down the line you may want to try it a third time "three strikes and you're out" is a lot more certain than "one strike and you're out".
After you've done those experiments you may want to consider some variations on the theme each a couple of months after the previous experiement. Try parmiaganna as the cheese with the lowest lactose - If you have no reaction to it you are likely lactose intolerant not dairy protein intolerant. Then try goat milk or cheese made from it (several types of spreadable goat cheese are delicious), then sheep milk or cheese mae from it (the finest romano is made from sheep milk for example). That will cover all the easily available options and take about a year for trying something every other month.
> I recognise this may be candida from googling > around. Given how common intolerances to either dairy proteins or lactose are, there is no reason to think this before isolating dairy proteins and lactose.
> So, today I start back dairy free - shame as I love the stuff. My sympathies. I'm wheat intolerant so I need to permanently consider wheat a personal poison to be avoided. The only breads I can have are ones that are wheat free and those aren't ever low carb. The only pasta I can have are wheat free and those are high carb alternate grain ones like quinoa or the Japanese shirataki noodles. And so on.
What helped for me - As soon as I discovered that for me wheat is poisonous I scheduled a confirmation test a month or two out and then a "three strikes and you're out" triple check a month or two after that. When both repeat tests gave the same symptoms so I could be certain it was wheat specifically, I decided that wheat is toxic for me. A personal poison. All of the bad symptoms it triggers are how my personal poison hits me. I made a huge adjustment to my attitude based on those tests. Wheat for me went from yummy but missed high carb temptation to evil poison lurking on the ingredients list lurking in there to make me sick. Attitude *matters*.
Finding such a personal poison and permanently avoiding the toxic stuff made a permanent improvement in my helath level and I'm sure you'll experience the same.
Even better news - I'm more than 9 years into avoiding toxic wheat at this point. In my first years I avoided anything that might even have a trace of wheat. After about 5 years I got a little lax and tried some cream of vegitable soup at a restaurant without asking how it was made. I got tiny symptoms not huge symptoms. Very cool - I need to actively avoid wheat my whole life but if I get accidentally dosed by a trace amount that 5 year of avoidance was enough that the intensity of symptoms from an accidental dose is now lower. There's some sort of system that regular dosing increases the reaction and regular avoidance decreases the reaction.
Doug Freyburger - 17 Feb 2009 20:48 GMT > So, today I start back dairy free - There are dairy free alternatives you may want to check out. "Chreese", soy based cheese alternative, milk made from soy or nuts, tofu isn't the only bean curd that can be found just the most common.
> shame as I love the stuff. A common feature of food intolerances - They trigger addictive behavior patterns. It's not just that I love wheat, it's that wheat is my worst binge trigger of any food I've ever tried.
The good news is that once I had detoxed off wheat for several weeks I found that I had stopped craving the evil toxic stuff. It became easy for me to avoid it. The bad news is one bite is enough to redose me into addictive behavior patterns.
Avoidance is key for me when it comes to my trigger food wheat. I bet you will experience the same pattern with dairy.
And yet, and yet. Certain substitutes don't trigger addictive behavior patterns in me. Pasta made from the rare grain quinoa doesn't trigger a binge in me at all. It's just carby enough I need to limit it to a meal every couple of months. But if I eat it it doesn't trigger a desire for real wheat pasta.
My best guess is you'll be able to use substitutes to some extent, and since they won't trigger addictive behavior reactions you'll find it easy to only have substitutes most weeks or most months easily limited.
It may not seem like it now, but I think discovering a personal poison like this is going to be very good news for you in the long term. Symptoms to enforce avoidance. Getting spoiled by a permanent improvement in health. Using substitutes that taste good but don't pressure you to eat them more often.
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