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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / May 2009

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Has anyone tried "Your Last Diet"?

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LauraM - 13 May 2009 18:14 GMT
Hi everyone -

I'm new here.  I've been reading posts for awhile and thought I'd
chime in.  First, about Kirstie, I can totally feel her pain!  I lost
50 lbs. about 20 years ago and kept it off for 15 years by exercising
and eating smaller meals.  But then about 5 years ago I had a neck
surgery and have had a lot of physical problems along the way which
leaves me unable to do my 2 hour workouts like I used to.  I just
started doing pilates about two weeks ago and find it's the only
exercise I can possibly do, especially now since I'm recovering from a
broken ankle.  <sigh>

So...having said all that, I NEED TO LOSE WEIGHT!   I miss my cute
self.  I've been reading "Your Last Diet" and have started the program
a few days ago.  It seems really interesting to me regarding reducing
and then eliminating sugar.  I definitely have that sugar addiction
and to a lesser extent a carb addiction.  I get in a trance when I eat
those things and they disappear quickly!

I also really liked the idea of having three meals with no snacks in
between in order to reduce the possibility of grazing.  This is
contrary to every other diet I've read about which suggest 5-6 small
meals throughout the day to "maintain an elevated metabolism".  I also
like the idea of eating protein with each meal which I have not done,
especially with breakfast.

I'm interested if anyone here has tried this and to hear how they did
on it.
Vinnie Yasay - 14 May 2009 02:16 GMT
> Hi everyone -
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> surgery and have had a lot of physical problems along the way which
> leaves me unable to do my 2 hour workouts like I used to.

iT WAS YOUR LOWERED CONSUMPTION NOT YOUR EXERCISE THAT CONTRIBUTED TO
YOUR WEIGHT LOSS THE MOST.

>  I just
> started doing pilates about two weeks ago and find it's the only
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> I'm interested if anyone here has tried this and to hear how they did
> on it.

Signature

Don't ever ya(say) I don't love Dr. McIntire. Who the f.ck else
will pay my bills?

Atticus - 14 May 2009 06:29 GMT
> Hi everyone -
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> I'm interested if anyone here has tried this and to hear how they did
> on it.

LauraM,

Good luck with your diet.  YLD is a good book, and has helped many.
I'm an Atkin's kid myself, but mainly because that's the first book I
read.  In any case, I've found it doesn't matter really all that much
what you eat, just cut out Sugar, White Flour, White Rice and reduce
your carbs to the fullest extent.  It really helped me to use a
calorie counting program to see where the carbs actually are.  I use
LoseIt! for the iPhone now, but also have used http://caloriecount.about.com.

-A
MU - 14 May 2009 06:49 GMT
> Good luck with your diet.  YLD is a good book, and has helped many.
> I'm an Atkin's kid myself, but mainly because that's the first book I
> read.  In any case, I've found it doesn't matter really all that much
> what you eat,

This out to be good.

> just cut out Sugar, White Flour, White Rice and reduce
> your carbs to the fullest extent.

I thought it didn't matter what you eat?

> It really helped me to use a
> calorie counting program to see where the carbs actually are.  I use

heh

spammer.
Signature

http://tinyurl.com/5gt7

LauraM - 14 May 2009 16:24 GMT
> > Hi everyone -
>
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't know why someone said you're a spammer.  I swear these groups
are strange.

I'm really liking how I'm feeling without so much sugar and have
learned alot about insulin and glucose levels.  Since your're an
Atkins guy you probably know this.....what are the daily recommended
allowances for carbs on Atkins?

Thanks for the link to count calories.  I saved it on my desktop.
Doug Freyburger - 14 May 2009 17:29 GMT
> I don't know why someone said you're a spammer.  I swear these groups
> are strange.

Atticus has a short history on ASDLC and pitched a
product with a URL.  When I read the message the
possibility occured to me.  Based on that there's no way
I was going to follow the URL.  If someone who has a
long posting history posts a URL I may well follow it, but
not a new poster or a low rate poster.  S/he also gave a
URL with no partial quotes of its contents - I don't care
how long or good your posting history is I'm unlikely to
follow a URL without a quote of its contents to help tell me
if following the link is going to be worth it.

It may have been a knee jerk reaction but the reason behind
it is very clear.  No cautious or experienced reader would
follow such a link unless they already knew the site from
other sources.  I've used about.com before but without a
partial quote as a sample, not gonna happen anyways.

> ...  Since your're an
> Atkins guy you probably know this.....what are the daily recommended
> allowances for carbs on Atkins?

Atkins is a process that uses the reactions of your own
body (detecting ketonuria) to discover a fully customized
carb count.  It's not one number that works for everyone,
it's a starting point that works for 99+% then a process
to discover the level that works best for your own body.

Because it's fully customized like that it works for a higher
percentage of people who do follow the directions than any
one-size-fits-all plan can.  Because it's fully customized
like that a low percentage of people do actually follow the
directions.  I think that's why newer plans that have
become popular aren't as customized - It's hard to get
people to follow directions and even harder to write
directions that will be easily understood by large numbers.
So newer plans do variations on the one-size-fits-all method.
LauraM - 14 May 2009 18:28 GMT
> > I don't know why someone said you're a spammer.  I swear these groups
> > are strange.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> directions that will be easily understood by large numbers.
> So newer plans do variations on the one-size-fits-all method.

Do you mean that because there's more work involved in figuring out
what works best for you (fully customized), not as many people
actually do it?  Nothing good in life comes without work.  "Your Last
Diet" seems to be very sensible and I like that I feel like I'm
understanding more about how our bodies process what we eat.

I'm keeping a journal for every meal and also writing everything down
including the protein and carb contents.  I googled the Atkins diet
and one url said that starting at 20 grams of carbs isn't the best
idea because of the likelihood of not staying on it.  They suggest
starting at 80 grams or even higher and then gradually reducing it.
That makes sense to me.  Even though Your Last Diet doesn't really
speak about the number of carbs, I am trying to control the number.

It's been a few days now and I haven't had any processed sugar.
Yeah!  Only from fresh raspberries and blackberries which I mash and
put on top of a mini wheat bagel in the morning, which I have
alongside my Metrx Whey Protein drink.

It's a way of life, not a diet.  I used to live that and I'm trying to
get back to it.  I feel like an addict going through withdrawal!
Peachie1 - 14 May 2009 19:09 GMT
On May 14, 9:29 am, Doug Freyburger <dfrey...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> LauraM <fingerso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> directions that will be easily understood by large numbers.
> So newer plans do variations on the one-size-fits-all method.

Do you mean that because there's more work involved in figuring out
what works best for you (fully customized), not as many people
actually do it?  Nothing good in life comes without work.  "Your Last
Diet" seems to be very sensible and I like that I feel like I'm
understanding more about how our bodies process what we eat.

I'm keeping a journal for every meal and also writing everything down
including the protein and carb contents.  I googled the Atkins diet
and one url said that starting at 20 grams of carbs isn't the best
idea because of the likelihood of not staying on it.  They suggest
starting at 80 grams or even higher and then gradually reducing it.
That makes sense to me.  Even though Your Last Diet doesn't really
speak about the number of carbs, I am trying to control the number.

It's been a few days now and I haven't had any processed sugar.
Yeah!  Only from fresh raspberries and blackberries which I mash and
put on top of a mini wheat bagel in the morning, which I have
alongside my Metrx Whey Protein drink.

It's a way of life, not a diet.  I used to live that and I'm trying to
get back to it.  I feel like an addict going through withdrawal!

Laura, I know what you mean. I have started LC and the withdrawals were
strong at first. Now I have more energy than I have had in a long time. I'm
62 years old and doing the LC thing is the best plan for me and my body. I'm
at 40 grams of carbs a day, and that is what my body lets me know works
best. Very slow in losing, but I feel sooo much better.
Good luck  with YLD. Sounds like that is the best for you

Peaches
Doug Freyburger - 14 May 2009 20:35 GMT
> > Atkins is a process that uses the reactions of your own
> > body (detecting ketonuria) to discover a fully customized
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> what works best for you (fully customized), not as many people
> actually do it?

That's one issue.  Plus most folks who read a plan expect
that they can reduce it to a menu.  Plus as far as skill as a
professional writer, Dr Atkins was, well, a good clinician.
He didn't have the sense to employ a ghost writer until his
2001 edition and then he didn't use one who'd bothered to
figure out the material in the 1972, 1993 and 1999 editions.

> Nothing good in life comes without work.

Yet so many people look for a magic bullet.  And not
finding one they move on to the next fad.  Sigh.

> "Your Last
> Diet" seems to be very sensible and I like that I feel like I'm
> understanding more about how our bodies process what we eat.

Another issue with the Atkins process is even though it
works, it doesn't look like he ever learned the science
behind why it works.  His explanations are very poor
hand waving.  There are folks who see the poor science
and then falsely conclude that the process itself is
wrong.  Nope, he spent decades of clinical work tuning
the customized process and when followed as such it
works extremely well.

The Atkins process was determined by experiment and
it was honed by decades of experiment.  The way science
works, explanation is optional in a case like that.  Dr A
knew that and he never did put in much effort at explanation.
The result is his explanations suck and people who want
explanations more than they want working process object.

When I first tried Atkins I noticed that his science was
terrible, but I knew people who had followed the directions
and succeeded.  So no matter that the directions told me
to do stuff I didn't understnad or believe, I followed those
directions.  Phases on schedule, carb quotas on schedule,
introduce new foods on schedule, detect problems and
write off problem foods as discovered, out of ketonuria and
back in on schedule, and so on.  It worked and it worked
extremely well.  Because it worked but I didn't understand
it I started studying the hormones.  Ten years later I'm
still encountering pieces of the puzzle.  But consider that
my starting point on 21 July 1999 was only a couple of
years before his final edition.  My starting point was near
his finishing point.  He spent his career determining by
experiment what to do.  I understand why he left it to
others to figure out why it works.

There's a giant drive to understand, but what does
understanding really achieve?  Folks understood why
blood letting worked, so they practiced it.  But in fact blood
letting did not work.  I know enough science to know that I
should take a process that *works* and *use* it.  But I don't
have a common attitude.  So many folks want to curse
something, anything, about Atkins that instead of attempting
to follow the directions they trash his explanations.  It's like
Henry Ford building a gasoline powered car and then
explaining it in terms to mystical fumes and spirits in
pipes.  The explanation would be nonsense but the car
doesn't care about the explanation so it just works.

> I'm keeping a journal for every meal and also writing everything down
> including the protein and carb contents.

Good plan.  Just the act of keeping a journal improves
how most folks eat.  Increased awareness.

> I googled the Atkins diet
> and one url said that starting at 20 grams of carbs isn't the best
> idea because of the likelihood of not staying on it.

So you discovered someone making judgements about Atkins
without actually having read the book.  There is a lot of
material on the topic by such idiots.  Blow them off.  Unless
they get the simplest basic point that phase one lasts 14
days, they are utterly unqualified to discuss what Atkins
says in his books.

> They suggest
> starting at 80 grams or even higher and then gradually reducing it.
> That makes sense to me.

Try it some time and see how hard it is.  Then try a couple of
months of low fat to reset.  Then try what Atkins really says in
his books and see the difference.  The initial two weeks at
20 *greatly* reduce the intensity and duration of carb cravings.
The high fat ratio in the first two weeks also contribute to
decreasing both the duration and intensity of the cravings.

The suggestion may make sense, but what it really does is
demonstrate ignorance of how the biochemisty actually works
and how carb cravings are turned on or off.

> Even though Your Last Diet doesn't really
> speak about the number of carbs, I am trying to control the number.

Cool.

> It's been a few days now and I haven't had any processed sugar.
> Yeah!  Only from fresh raspberries and blackberries which I mash and
> put on top of a mini wheat bagel in the morning, which I have
> alongside my Metrx Whey Protein drink.

Sounds pretty high carb to me.  My bias - Wheat is my main
binger trigger food.  Anything with wheat in it sounds high to
me.

> It's a way of life, not a diet.  I used to live that and I'm trying to
> get back to it.  I feel like an addict going through withdrawal!

Folks love to deny that high carb foods are addictive.  Addictive
behavior patterns happen no matter the furosity of the denials.
LauraM - 14 May 2009 22:17 GMT
> So you discovered someone making judgements about Atkins
> without actually having read the book.  There is a lot of
> material on the topic by such idiots.  Blow them off.  Unless
> they get the simplest basic point that phase one lasts 14
> days, they are utterly unqualified to discuss what Atkins
> says in his books.

Well, now that you put it that way.....:)   I guess I'm trying to find
out what works for me long-term, so the higher carb number helps me
not go crazy by eating more than I should.

> Sounds pretty high carb to me.  My bias - Wheat is my main
> binger trigger food.  Anything with wheat in it sounds high to
> me.

The mini wheat bagel has 110 calories, 17 gms of carbs.  Yes, that's
probably high for someone who does Atkins.  I was kind of shocked at
how that number relates to a low-carb diet.  Granted, it's high.
But...I'm eating SOOOOOOO much less than I did before I started this
way of eating.  My plan is to reduce the carb number over the next
couple weeks, but I need that feeling of controlling a few things
first.  (1) only eating at mealtime with no snacks, (2) eating no
processed sugar, (3) no white flour.  If I can conquer these (and I
will), then I'll feel successful and more powerful to move onto the
next step.

> Folks love to deny that high carb foods are addictive.  Addictive
> behavior patterns happen no matter the furosity of the denials.- Hide quoted text -

YLD mentioned that people who are addicts probably have either or all
of the following:  low seratonin, low beta-endorphins, low blood
sugar.  Having been an exercise FREAK for years (before I had my
surgery), I have always exhibited addictive behaviors.  Before that
exercise period I smoked (YUCK!).  I quit that many years ago.  Before
that it was partying with various illegal substances.  I'm attributing
this to low beta-endorphins.  That's why I exercised so much.  To get
the "high".  I'm attempting to correct my body chemistry so that I
feel well.  Smooth out the highs and the lows.  Plus, I'm peri-
menopausal.  Watch out!  ;)
Doug Freyburger - 14 May 2009 23:31 GMT
> I guess I'm trying to find
> out what works for me long-term, so the higher carb number helps me
> not go crazy by eating more than I should.

That's a standard function of all of the successful plans - The
later phases are more moderate in order to be more livable.

> The mini wheat bagel has 110 calories, 17 gms of carbs.  Yes, that's
> probably high for someone who does Atkins.  I was kind of shocked at
> how that number relates to a low-carb diet.  Granted, it's high.

Most common CCLL so most common quota for losing is
50 net, so if that deducts fiber it's a third of the day's quota.
Add a portion of cauliflower the size of my head and it's
possible to go over.  ;^)  Most common CCLM so most
common in maintenance is 100 net so its an eighth of a
day's quota.  Reasonable but I'd much rather have a bowl
of oatmeal instead.  More filling and to me better tasting.

> But...I'm eating SOOOOOOO much less than I did before I started this
> way of eating.

Calories count.

False view of low carbing - Eat as much as you like and
lose anyways.

True view of low carbing (for a lot of people, not for everyone) -
No cravings or hunger so it's painless to taper down portion
sizes.

> > Folks love to deny that high carb foods are addictive.  Addictive
> > behavior patterns happen no matter the furosity of the denials.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> sugar.  Having been an exercise FREAK for years (before I had my
> surgery), ...  I'm attributing this to low beta-endorphins.

Yet more hormones into the feedback loops.  Insulin and
glucagon, T3 thyroid and leptin, seratonin and endorphins.

> That's why I exercised so much.  To get the "high".

I'm ADD/ADHD.  I wonder where that fits in.

As to endorphins I've never gotten a high from exercise.  Not even
wehn I was in high school soccer at my peak fitness running 6
miles for the scenery.

> ...  Plus, I'm peri- menopausal.  Watch out!  ;)

Estrovan.  My wife swears by it.
MU - 15 May 2009 00:29 GMT
>> That's why I exercised so much.  To get the "high".
>
> I'm ADD/ADHD.  I wonder where that fits in.

Right after "you never comprehend after all these yars" regarding the
real issues in weight loss.

Overconsumption.
Signature

http://tinyurl.com/5gt7

MU - 15 May 2009 00:24 GMT
> The mini wheat bagel has 110 calories, 17 gms of carbs.

You have no clue if that is accurate.
Signature

http://tinyurl.com/5gt7

MU - 15 May 2009 00:28 GMT
> YLD mentioned that people who are addicts probably have either or all
> of the following:  low seratonin, low beta-endorphins, low blood
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> feel well.  Smooth out the highs and the lows.  Plus, I'm peri-
> menopausal.  Watch out!  ;)

In any weight loss regime, the first component that must be overcome is
any mental or emotional or psychological issues.

You have a history replete with all of the above. You're starting in the
wrong place.

Overconsumption may be the result of deeper problems, it ofet is.
Correcting your carbs, counting calories and attempting to trade
obsessions will fail you as it has in the past.
Signature

http://tinyurl.com/5gt7

LauraM - 15 May 2009 01:15 GMT
> > YLD mentioned that people who are addicts probably have either or all
> > of the following:  low seratonin, low beta-endorphins, low blood
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> obsessions will fail you as it has in the past.
> --http://tinyurl.com/5gt7

If life were that simple, everyone would be thin.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 15 May 2009 01:39 GMT
> > > YLD mentioned that people who are addicts probably have either or all
> > > of the following:  low seratonin, low beta-endorphins, low blood
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> If life were that simple, everyone would be thin.

Simple things like eating the right daily amount (32 ounces) to become
healthier (hungrier) ...

... becomes impossible in the setting of the "hunger is starvation"
delusion:

http://HelpStampOutHunger.com

Only GOD can cut the "hunger is starvation" delusion from our hearts:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?

Truth is simple ...

... but impossible for those who do not trust the truth:

http://T3WiJ.com

Love in the truth,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Heart Doctor
and Author of "Be Hungry"
http://NetCabal.com
"Don't be left behind as were Cleopus and Simon."
LauraM - 15 May 2009 02:00 GMT
On May 14, 5:39 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lo...@thetruth.com>
wrote:

> > > > YLD mentioned that people who are addicts probably have either or all
> > > > of the following:  low seratonin, low beta-endorphins, low blood
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Good grief.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 15 May 2009 02:23 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> Good grief.

No such thing.

Good is that which GOD wants:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4d3663cbb92334d4?

Love in the truth,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
http://WDJW.net
L.B. Listmann - 16 May 2009 03:32 GMT
> Good is that which GOD wants:

There are 10,000 known Gods.... which god are you referring to?
L.B. Listmann - 16 May 2009 03:31 GMT
On May 14, 5:39 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lo...@thetruth.com>
wrote:
> LauraM wrote:
> > MU wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Good grief.

He's a well known religious fanatic who believes even a short inactive women
can lose weight by eating 2 lbs a day, even if she consumes 8,000+ calories
a day.  He's nuts and should stay on the religious groups where he belongs.
L.B. Listmann - 16 May 2009 03:29 GMT
Simple things like eating the right daily amount (32 ounces) to become
healthier (hungrier) ...

So a short 5' woman and a 6'2" man will both lose weight eating 32oz a day
of WHAT?  Lettuce? Cabbage? Pork chops? Chocolate fudge?  Burgers and fries?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 16 May 2009 03:43 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/249a483705e30086?
>
> So a short 5' woman and a 6'2" man will both lose weight eating 32oz a day
> of WHAT?

A variety of their favorites (foods that they enjoy), which will make
them healthier (hungrier).

Truth is simple :-)

May GOD soften your heart, LB, so that you would come to trust the
truth, Who is Jesus:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Love in the truth,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
and Author of "Be Hungry"
http://NetCabal.com
"Don't be left behind as were Cleopus and Simon ...
... -----------------> be hungry ! ! !"

Only GOD can cut the "hunger is starvation" delusion from our hearts:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
L.B. Listmann - 16 May 2009 22:06 GMT
>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> A variety of their favorites (foods that they enjoy), which will make
> them healthier (hungrier).

So you mean the 5' inactive woman who burns perhaps 1200 calories a day can
eat 2 lbs of candy, cake, pie, pizza and whatever she likes and still lose
weight, even at 6 to 8000 calories a day?

> Truth is simple :-)

What truth?

> May GOD soften your heart, LB, so that you would come to trust the
> truth, Who is Jesus:
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Only GOD can cut the "hunger is starvation" delusion from our hearts:
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 16 May 2009 22:37 GMT
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/dae8ffd064425210?

Truth is simple :-)

May GOD soften your heart, L.B., so that you would come to trust the
truth, Who is Jesus:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Love in the truth,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Heart Doctor
and Author of "Be Hungry"
http://NetCabal.com
"Don't be left behind as were Cleopus and Simon ...
... -----------------> be hungry ! ! !"

Only GOD can cut the "hunger is starvation" delusion from our hearts:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
L.B. Listmann - 23 May 2009 07:54 GMT
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/dae8ffd064425210?
>
> Truth is simple :-)
>
> May GOD soften your heart, L.B., so that you would come to trust the
> truth, Who is Jesus:

Trust what truth?  This is a diet group, why bring your religious crap here?

> http://T3WiJ.com
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Only GOD can cut the "hunger is starvation" delusion from our hearts:
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 23 May 2009 09:48 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Trust what truth?

Simply **the** truth.

> This is a diet group, why bring your religious crap here?

Writing about the truth is not a religion.

Again, may GOD soften your heart, L.B., so that you would come to
trust the truth, Who is Jesus:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Love in the truth,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Heart Doctor
and Author of "Be Hungry"
http://NetCabal.com
"Don't be left behind as were Cleopus and Simon ...
... -----------------> be hungry ! ! !"

Only GOD can cut the "hunger is starvation" delusion from our hearts:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
L.B. Listmann - 29 May 2009 04:28 GMT
> Again, may GOD soften your heart, L.B., so that you would come to
> trust the truth, Who is Jesus:

Christianity and your Jesus: The belief that a cosmic Zombie who was his own
father
can make people live forever for symbolically eating his flesh,
telepathically telling him they accept him as their Savior so he can
remove an evil force from their soul present in humanity
because a rib-woman was beguiled by a talking snake, to eat
from a magical tree.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 29 May 2009 06:57 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Christianity and your Jesus: The belief that a cosmic Zombie who was his own
> father

Incorrect.

Christianity is a personal relationship with the risen Christ Jesus.

Only the Messiah, Who is Christ Jesus, can save us from our deadly
sins.

Eating more than we need, which is gluttony, is just one of many
deadly sins.

"The wages of sin is death of both the body and soul." -- Holy Spirit

Amen.

"For GOD so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that
whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." --
LORD Jesus Christ (John 3:16)

Amen.

We believe **in** Jesus when we trust Jesus.

This trust can only come from GOD.

May GOD soften your heart, LB, so that you would come to trust the
truth:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Love in the truth,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Heart Doctor
and Author of "Be Hungry"
http://NetCabal.com
"Don't be left behind as were Cleopus and Simon ...
... -----------------> be hungry ! ! !"

"... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor
12:3)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/035c93540862751c?

What are the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/980b41e6999de315?

Only the truth can cure the "hunger is starvation" delusion:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
MU - 15 May 2009 05:06 GMT
>>> YLD mentioned that people who are addicts probably have either or all
>>> of the following:  low seratonin, low beta-endorphins, low blood
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> If life were that simple, everyone would be thin.

Life is complex, weight loss is quite simple. You need to deal with your
life, its obsessions and miscalculations, weight loss will follow.
Signature

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LauraM - 15 May 2009 15:06 GMT
> >>> YLD mentioned that people who are addicts probably have either or all
> >>> of the following:  low seratonin, low beta-endorphins, low blood
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

You are one strange dude with your odd url's.
L.B. Listmann - 16 May 2009 03:35 GMT
>You are one strange dude with your odd url's.

MU is as off the wall as his hero Chung. He's another religious fanatic
convinced people will lose weight if they eat any number of calories in 2
lbs of food a day.  You can eat 2 lbs of lettuce or 2 lbs of pizza or
buttery sugary cake and pie.  All you can drink is water. No juice. No milk.
It's insane.
LauraM - 17 May 2009 19:11 GMT
> >You are one strange dude with your odd url's.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> buttery sugary cake and pie.  All you can drink is water. No juice. No milk.
> It's insane.

These people are crazy.  They can't be serious.  They must be enjoying
themselves posting this crap.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 17 May 2009 19:32 GMT
> > >You are one strange dude with your odd url's.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> These people are crazy.

If that were true, would not have an active medical license.

Bottom line:

The key to becoming healthier (hungrier) is eating less, down to the
right amount (32 ounces):

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?

What keeps some people from doing this very simple 2PD-OMER Approach
is their being unable to overcome the delusion that "hunger is
starvation" because they don't have GOD's help:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?

Love in the truth,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
and Author of "Be Hungry"
http://NetCabal.com
"Don't be left behind as were Cleopus and Simon ...
... -----------------> be hungry ! ! !"

Only GOD can cut the "hunger is starvation" delusion from our hearts:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
Atheno - 17 May 2009 19:37 GMT
>> These people are crazy.
>
> If that were true, would not have an active medical license.

Not true.  If not in active practice or not on a hospital staff where there
is peer review and only in the office practice,  a doctor can be crazy and/or
a quack keep it generally hidden.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 17 May 2009 19:50 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/5392ae32160d94e8?
>
> Not true.

Lie.

In this specific case, obviously true for those who are discerning.

> If not in active practice or not on a hospital staff where there
> is peer review and only in the office practice,  a doctor can be crazy and/or
> a quack keep it generally hidden.

The fact remains that Usenet is public as is You Tube so that nothing
has been hidden:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8B_70Jp-kc

Truth is simple :-)

May GOD soften your heart, Atheno, so you would come to trust the
truth, Who is Jesus:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Love in the truth,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Heart Doctor
and Author of "Be Hungry"
http://NetCabal.com
"Don't be left behind as were Cleopus and Simon ...
... -----------------> be hungry ! ! !"

Only GOD can cut the "hunger is starvation" delusion from our hearts:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
Atheno - 17 May 2009 19:57 GMT
> Lie.
>
> In this specific case, obviously true for those who are discerning.

When you advance from your low level of discening to the higher level of
Knowing, you will understand far more than you do now.  

Your responses are typical of those at your level.  

Not everyone is capable of rising in the levels, perhaps you are one who is
not.  It is God's Will that not everyone will rise in levels.

If that is the case, then at least you seem to have found contentment at your
level.  Many others have led a contented and full life never progressing past
your level.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 17 May 2009 19:59 GMT
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f80dd5a13804c67a?

Truth is simple :-)

May GOD soften your heart, Atheno, so you would come to trust the
truth, Who is Jesus:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Love in the truth,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Heart Doctor
and Author of "Be Hungry"
http://NetCabal.com
"Don't be left behind as were Cleopus and Simon ...
... -----------------> be hungry ! ! !"

Only GOD can cut the "hunger is starvation" delusion from our hearts:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
Atheno - 17 May 2009 20:00 GMT
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f80dd5a13804c67a?
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Only GOD can cut the "hunger is starvation" delusion from our hearts:
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?

This repetition makes it unlikely you will be able to advance.  It is good
that you are satisfied at your low level.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 17 May 2009 20:15 GMT
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8e77f49aa61098a0?

Truth is simple :-)

May GOD soften your heart, Atheno, so you would come to trust the
truth, Who is Jesus:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Love in the truth,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Heart Doctor
and Author of "Be Hungry"
http://NetCabal.com
"Don't be left behind as were Cleopus and Simon ...
... -----------------> be hungry ! ! !"

Only GOD can cut the "hunger is starvation" delusion from our hearts:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
Atheno - 17 May 2009 20:27 GMT
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8e77f49aa61098a0?
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Only GOD can cut the "hunger is starvation" delusion from our hearts:
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?

I  am glad for you that you are content wtih your low level and am sad to
realize that you will not advance.  Even at your low level, you do serve some
purpose in God's scheme of everything.

Hopefully you will not revert to a lower level
L.B. Listmann - 23 May 2009 08:06 GMT
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8e77f49aa61098a0?
>
> Truth is simple :-)
>
> May GOD soften your heart, Atheno, so you would come to trust the
> truth, Who is Jesus:

May God heal you of your INSANITY.
L.B. Listmann - 23 May 2009 08:03 GMT
LauraM wrote:

> These people are crazy.

If that were true, would not have an active medical license.

--> There are people with medical lic's in mental hospitals and prisons for
the criminally insane.  Having a medical lic is no proof of sanity, honesty
or integrity.

A short inactive woman needs a lot less food than a tall active man.  Get
your head out of your bible and learn about calories, exercise and weight
loss.

BULLSHIT SNIP!!!!!!!!!!
MU - 17 May 2009 20:46 GMT
>>>You are one strange dude with your odd url's.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> These people are crazy.  They can't be serious.  They must be enjoying
> themselves posting this crap.

The only person who has demonstrated craziness is you. The fact that the
2PD works is a reality, one I am sure you will ignore.

Your concept is to find something you can obsess about, have at it. you
will fail as you have in the past until you address your biggest issue.

Your head.
Signature

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L.B. Listmann - 23 May 2009 08:10 GMT
>>>>You are one strange dude with your odd url's.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> The only person who has demonstrated craziness is you. The fact that the
> 2PD works is a reality, one I am sure you will ignore.

If it worked it would be on every talk show on TV. It would be on CNN News
and FOX News. It would be in every newspaper.

> Your concept is to find something you can obsess about, have at it. you
> will fail as you have in the past until you address your biggest issue.

Which bigger issues?  Not following the advice of total strangers online who
make insane claims that short inactive woman and tall active men can lose
weight consuming the same 2 lbs of food a day?

> Your head.

You need to get your head out of your anus............
L.B. Listmann - 23 May 2009 07:58 GMT
On May 15, 7:35 pm, "L.B. Listmann" <LBListm...@invalid.net> wrote:
> "LauraM" <fingerso...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> milk.
> It's insane.

>>These people are crazy.  They can't be serious.  They must be enjoying
>> themselves posting this crap.

They're on some kind of religious kick. They don't belong on diet groups.
Nothing they post makes any sense. I remember Chung once posting he got the
idea of 2 lbs a day from the bible.  God supposedly dropped 2 lbs of magic
"manna" a day from the sky, per person, as they wandered in the desert. He's
taking it from an old Hebrew myth and trying to get people to follow his
insane "bible inspired" plan.
MU - 17 May 2009 20:49 GMT
>>You are one strange dude with your odd url's.
>
> MU is as off the wall as his hero Chung. He's another religious fanatic

Inaccurate but that's your best shot, lies filled with inaccuracies.

> convinced people will lose weight if they eat any number of calories in 2
> lbs of food a day.

Incorrect, again lies filled with inaccuracies.

> You can eat 2 lbs of lettuce or 2 lbs of pizza or
> buttery sugary cake and pie.  All you can drink is water.

Incorrect, you can drink or eat anything you want.

>No juice. No milk.
> It's insane.

The better question is why you spend man-years of time on Usneet lying.
That is insane.
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Atheno - 17 May 2009 20:53 GMT
> The better question is why you spend man-years of time on Usneet lying.
> That is insane.

Good question for your friend/alter ego Chung
L.B. Listmann - 23 May 2009 08:19 GMT
>> The better question is why you spend man-years of time on Usneet lying.
>> That is insane.
>
> Good question for your friend/alter ego Chung

MU is another religious nuttter who sees nothing wrong with Chung's constant
mindless senseless repetitious religious blatherings. MU is his sycophant.
L.B. Listmann - 23 May 2009 08:16 GMT
>>>You are one strange dude with your odd url's.
>>
>> MU is as off the wall as his hero Chung. He's another religious fanatic
>
> Inaccurate but that's your best shot, lies filled with inaccuracies.

He is indeed an religious fanatic.  He repeats the same religious nonsense
for months now. Your lies wont change that fact.

>> convinced people will lose weight if they eat any number of calories in 2
>> lbs of food a day.
>
> Incorrect, again lies filled with inaccuracies.

Oh? You changed it to calories now?  No one 2 lbs a day of the foods people
like?

>> You can eat 2 lbs of lettuce or 2 lbs of pizza or
>> buttery sugary cake and pie.  All you can drink is water.
>
> Incorrect, you can drink or eat anything you want.

Exactly!  You just contradicted yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!     LOL!!!  LOL!!!
So you say the 5'2" woman can lose weight eating 2 lbs of calorie packed
food, as many as 8 to 10,000 calories a day... and lose weight!
Hahahahahahah  What a dreamer you are. Chung has you fooled because you're
so uninformed about the caloric content of food.

>>No juice. No milk.
>> It's insane.
>
> The better question is why you spend man-years of time on Usneet lying.
> That is insane.

No need to lie.  You and Chung have proved yourselves liars over and over
and over...............
MU - 17 May 2009 20:47 GMT
>>>>> YLD mentioned that people who are addicts probably have either or all
>>>>> of the following:  low seratonin, low beta-endorphins, low blood
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> You are one strange dude with your odd url's.

A little fun, a play on words. Doesn't change your issues.
Signature

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Doug Freyburger - 15 May 2009 16:07 GMT
> > In any weight loss regime, the first component that must be overcome is
> > any mental or emotional or psychological issues.

Thus stating that physical cravings don't happen.  Check.  A
clear cut sign of someone utterly unqualified to discuss food.

Ignoring physical cravings and hunger leads to unending
frustration and failure because the approach does not turn
off physical cravings.  Physical cravings eventually overcome
any psychological.

Ignoring psychological issues have the same problem as
ignoring physical cravings.  Any approach that has a hope
of working long term needs to address both.

> If life were that simple, everyone would be thin.

Generally it's better to not respond to trolls.  There's a theory
that if you don't respond they will eventually go away.  That
theory is trivial to disprove by searching the archives, but it
is most certainly true that responding keeps them here.

It's a common issue to many who come to diet support groups
and rant about moderation or lower portions or whatever.  Do
any of these morons actually think there's a single fat person
in the world who hasn't spent years and years trying and
failing at those strategies?  The strategies can be discarding
quite simply - Go to the Mall and see if there are many fat
people there.  Ask as many as as you like if they have tried
your suggested strategy.
LauraM - 17 May 2009 19:13 GMT
> > > In any weight loss regime, the first component that must be overcome is
> > > any mental or emotional or psychological issues.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> people there.  Ask as many as as you like if they have tried
> your suggested strategy.

I couldn't resist posting a response or two even though I know I
shouldn't do it.  By the way, it's been about a week now since I've
reduced my carbs and sugar intake.  What a difference!  I'm definitely
not craving them like I did before.  I agree that it's definitely a
physical reaction.  Why these people don't accept science is beyond
me.  I mean, I'm pretty open to positive thinking and all that kind of
stuff, but to deny science is just plain silly.
MU - 14 May 2009 19:26 GMT
> I don't know why someone said you're a spammer.  I swear these groups
> are strange.

What's strange is that you can't detect a spammer. Then, you're headed
down a known path of failure on this "Last Diet" crap so questioning
your mental acuity is spot on.
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ganivenu.venu123@gmail.com - 14 May 2009 14:50 GMT
> Hi everyone -
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> I'm interested if anyone here has tried this and to hear how they did
> on it.
 
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