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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / October 2009Slightly OT: Has anyone had low blood pressure from losing weight too fast?
I've been concerned for the past week because my blood pressure suddenly, and dramatically has started to plummet. I've had high BP for my entire adult life and despite being able to control both diabetes and blood lipid levels with my diet and supplements, I've had only minor success with controlling my BP and I continue to take multiple BP meds. I've now lost an additional 10 pounds in the past 3 to 4 weeks, and my BP went from averaging 145 or 150 over 80 or 85, to being as low as 96/59 (yesterday). It's averaged about 105/63 in the past week or 10 days. . I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing because I'm so used to it being high. I *feel* fine. I have a Dr's appointment next Friday, and in the meanwhile I'm nervous about taking my BP meds. I actually skipped my evening meds tonight because my BP was already 102/65 when it was time to take them. I was literally afraid to take them and then go to sleep, now I'm concerned about BP spiking in my sleep from the rebound effect of missing clonidine dosages. It's 5 am and I need some sleep but I'm almost obsessed now with checking my BP. I'm not sure if the BP drop is from suddenly dropping that 10 pounds, or the fact that I started taking a couple of new supplements (CoQ10 and high-potency B complex) a couple of weeks ago -- or a combination of both. BTW, I never add salt to food or use caffeine. Guess I just need to get through this next week until my Dr. appointment to find out. Thanks for listening to me ramble about this. --- Peter > I've been concerned for the past week because my blood pressure > suddenly, and dramatically has started to plummet. I've had high BP [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > --- > Peter Can;t you try to get a Dr appointment sooner than your scheduled one? Another key question,how are you measuring the BP and have you verified the blood pressure reading by other means? Around here they have automatic machines at many of the supermarkets and drug stores and I've found them to be generally consistent with readings taken with the cuff type manual units. It does seem unusual for BP to suddenly change that much and it's hard to imagine it would change anywhere near that much from a 10lb weight loss. Also hard to imagine a 40 pt drop from the Q10 or B Complex. If they did that, they would be BP supplements of choice. I take Q10 and have never seen any BP change. But since these are the only new things, I'd temporarily stop taking them and see what happens. Even your lowest reading is still at the bottom of the normal range, so I'd relax a bit. Given the circumstances, I would have done what you did and reduce or skip the BP medication, continue to monitor it and get things checked out. Another key question is what kind and what dosage of BP medication you are taking. If you are taking more than the minimal dosage it may just need to be reduced. You could also check the web for any possible interactions between the BP med and other drugs/supplements. On Sep 19, 7:54 am, trad...@optonline.net wrote: > > I've been concerned for the past week because my blood pressure > > suddenly, and dramatically has started to plummet. I've had high BP [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > also check the web for any possible interactions between the BP med > and other drugs/supplements. One more thing I thought of. Have you had any prescriptions refilled recently? Any different generics substituted? I'd check everything to make sure at least it's what it's supposed to be, at least to the extent you can. Also, sometimes people have reported differing effects from generics compared to the brand name drug or one generic vs another, etc. >On Sep 19, 7:54 am, trad...@optonline.net wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >effects from generics compared to the brand name drug or one generic >vs another, etc. Actually I did get two of my BP meds refilled, but I already checked and they are the same generic brand and dosage that I had been taking. I guess it's not unheard of that I got a "bad" batch of one of the drugs. It;'s one more thing to consider. --- Peter > I've been concerned for the past week because my blood pressure > suddenly, and dramatically has started to plummet. I've had high BP [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > --- > Peter I don't have answers for you Peter, but are you trying to lose weight now? If you are congratulations, and if you're not, the doctor should have answers for you. Good luck because I know it's worrisome while waiting to see the doctor. Cheri >> I've been concerned for the past week because my blood pressure >> suddenly, and dramatically has started to plummet. I've had high BP [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >I don't have answers for you Peter, but are you trying to lose weight now? Yes, I probably should have mentioned that Cheri. Just about the time the weight loss (and BP drop) occurred, I went back to a low-glycemic diet where I am also limiting saturated fat. Basically a lot of chicken, fish and fresh vegetables with no simple starches. >If you are congratulations, and if you're not, the doctor should have >answers for you. Good luck because I know it's worrisome while waiting to >see the doctor. > >Cheri Thanks Cheri --- Peter > Yes, I probably should have mentioned that Cheri. Just about the time > the weight loss (and BP drop) occurred, I went back to a low-glycemic > diet where I am also limiting saturated fat. Basically a lot of > chicken, fish and fresh vegetables with no simple starches. Those lbs may've been initial water loss, which can drop bp a lot. BTW, there's no major difference metabolically between starches, and I've never heard of a "simple" starch, they're all complex carbs. That's a non starter, since many complex carbs are more glycemic than simple ones. The proteins and veggies are a great idea, though, don't forget the olive oil! Susan > I've been concerned for the past week because my blood pressure > suddenly, and dramatically has started to plummet. Normally that's a good thing but it is strange. > I've had high BP > for my entire adult life and despite being able to control both > diabetes and blood lipid levels with my diet and supplements, I've had > only minor success with controlling my BP and I continue to take > multiple BP meds. The water loss of ketosis is supposed to trigger lower blood pressure in "everyone". Clearly the percentage is not 100 and/or the amount of reduction you saw in the past was insufficient. Anyways, water loss helps BP. Fast loss includes water loss. Insulin increase also triggers water retention. It looks like both have dropped fast for you. > I've now lost an additional 10 pounds in the past 3 to 4 weeks, and my > BP went from averaging 145 or 150 over 80 or 85, to being as low as > 96/59 (yesterday). At that rate it does include some water swing. > It's averaged about 105/63 in the past week or 10 > days. . I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing because > I'm so used to it being high. I *feel* fine. IMO if you feel fine than it's a good thing. There is a caveat - With lower BP some sudden movements can cause dizziness until your body becomes accustomed to the new BP level. A sudden jump up from sitting can drain the head of some blood. It's temporary but not a good feeling. > I have a Dr's > appointment next Friday, and in the meanwhile I'm nervous about taking [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > dosages. It's 5 am and I need some sleep but I'm almost obsessed now > with checking my BP. On the one hand tuning med levels to BP numbers is a good idea and cutting dosage because of better numbers is the way to go. On the other hand most BP meds are not to be stopped without working with the doc. They need to be tapered off. I suggest trying a walk-in at the doc. > I'm not sure if the BP drop is from suddenly dropping that 10 pounds, > or the fact that I started taking a couple of new supplements (CoQ10 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > appointment to find out. Thanks for listening to me ramble about > this. Try for a walk-in. > I've been concerned for the past week because my blood pressure > suddenly, and dramatically has started to plummet. I've had high BP [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > BP went from averaging 145 or 150 over 80 or 85, to being as low as > 96/59 (yesterday). Suspiciously I had almost the exact same numbers since losing weight the last 3 months. It turned out to be my automatic BP machine. Seems like a common problem with them after awhile. Took it with me to my doc and solved it in his presence.  SignatureJK www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com >> I've been concerned for the past week because my blood pressure >> suddenly, and dramatically has started to plummet. I've had high BP [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >common problem with them after awhile. Took it with me to my doc and solved >it in his presence. You know, as simple an idea as that is, it never occurred to me that the automatic BP machine could have gone bad. I've been using the same one for several years and it's been very reliable. I guess like everything that has mechanical and electronic components they can fail. Just for kicks and giggle I think I'll try an other one later this afternoon. Thanks for the idea. --- Peter > On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:19:04 -0400, "JKconey" > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > --- > Peter To compound the matter I bought a new one and it read 90/60 or close to it. I now knew that it was also wrong, so I returned it for a replacement. FINALLY the replacement read about 130/80, which was close to the truth. All these years dealing with people's computer problems, I've learned that many times it's the simplest possible solution. The problem solver, that I never want to consider, is a bad cable! SignatureJK www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com Peter, I've had bp that low and even lower not from weight loss, which alone would NOT produce those changes. It happened when I was adrenally insufficient, low on cortisol and feeling faint, tired, weak. Salt restriction can be very dangerous and severe salt restriction is associated with higher mortality, probably because you need adequate sodium for normal adrenal function. It's encouraging that you feel fine, but if you're sure your cuff is accurate and your batteries are fresh, I recommend salt water and some arm circles or movement to raise your bp when it goes under 100 and under 60 on the bottom. Salt water and running up and down the stairs made me feel better when I was adrenally insufficient, and I'd find myself eating salty foods and salting my meals, something I hadn't done in decades. I wonder if the CoQ10 had a bp effect or insulin sensitizing effect? Susan > I've been concerned for the past week because my blood pressure > suddenly, and dramatically has started to plummet. I've had high BP [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > --- > Peter >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >associated with higher mortality, probably because you need adequate >sodium for normal adrenal function. I got my BP back up to where I'm comfortable with it today; last night and this morning I intentionally ate a lot of salty stuff and drank a *lot* of water. I may have been dehydrated on top of everything else from over-restricting sodium. (I've been so paranoid of too much sodium because of my history of high BP and heart disease). I guess I've learned a very valuable lesson here. Of course, the scales showed a 3 pound weight gain over yesterday, lol. In this case I'm sure that's a good thing. >It's encouraging that you feel fine, but if you're sure your cuff is >accurate and your batteries are fresh, I recommend salt water and some [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I wonder if the CoQ10 had a bp effect or insulin sensitizing effect? That's what I started taking it for ... But I just can't imagine that it had this dramatic an effect. >Susan Today my BP is perfectly fine, averaging around 130/75 with several readings today. I had checked my BP monitor against readings from two others and they were close enough so I knew that my cuff was not the issue. I really do think it was a combination of things: The fairly sudden change in diet, and the addition of the CoQ10 among other things. There's another factor also that I hadn't considered: Because of life circumstances I had been under a tremendous amount of constant stress for the last year and a half. That situation resolved a few weeks ago, and I suddenly find myself without either that conscious or subconscious stress. I had not been sleeping well; in fact, I honestly don't think I had more than 3 or 4 hours of straight sleep at a time for months; sometimes that's all I would get in any given night. Then about a month ago I started more sleeping normally again. I guess I'm kind of answering my own question. Sometimes when we're so close to a situation it's hard to step back and look at it objectively. But now in really thinking about it, I shouldn't be surprised I guess that my blood pressure was so low. I had been under all that stress, not getting enough sleep, , had gotten away from eating right, and because of moderate to sometimes significant depression I had gotten withdrawn and was getting no exercise at all. I was just maintaining a higher than normal blood pressure on a cocktail of three BP medications. Then when my situation changed I not only was out from under the stress, but I've felt better mentally and have been more active. Because I felt better I was motivated again to go back to my healthy nutrition plan, started losing weight at the rate of 1/2 pound per day, and at the same time added the B Complex and CoQ10 to give my metabolism a boost. Add getting more normal sleep and being more physically active to all that and I guess I shouldn't be surprised at all that my blood pressure has dropped. I imagine it just caught me off guard because I can't recall my BP ever being that low at all. I probably am just plain overmedicated now. And that old adage about "too much of a good thing" probably applies here. I think I need to try to be more moderate in my approach to my health management, I do tend to try make sudden dramatic changes rather than to take a reasonable, steady course. If only our metabolisms were simple, and there were simple, easy solutions to everything! We're like old car engines that need constant tweaking, timing and attention to keep them running smoothly! This whole BP swing has been a huge wake up call for me. I have a Dr. appointment scheduled for Friday and will discuss all this with him. Hopefully with my new steady weight loss I can drop or cut back on one or two of the meds instead of loading up on salt and fluids to raise my BP. I swear I almost feel sorry for the doctor. He never knows what to expect from me when I walk through the door. I always have new drama and/or new ideas to talk to him about, lol. --- Peter > I got my BP back up to where I'm comfortable with it today; last night > and this morning I intentionally ate a lot of salty stuff and drank a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > showed a 3 pound weight gain over yesterday, lol. In this case I'm > sure that's a good thing. Yes, I'm glad you got things under control. > Today my BP is perfectly fine, averaging around 130/75 with several > readings today. I had checked my BP monitor against readings from > two others and they were close enough so I knew that my cuff was not > the issue. Interestingly, mine started to rise last night and hit numbers this a.m. that I haven't seen in many years, 160/88. I took time released potassium and then a magnesium cap and it's moved down. I checked it because I felt wierd and wired up, obviously my adrenals kicking up, maybe a cortisol or aldosterone high. [snip] > And that old adage about "too much of a good thing" probably applies > here. I think I need to try to be more moderate in my approach to my > health management, I do tend to try make sudden dramatic changes > rather than to take a reasonable, steady course. I think incremental changes and logging your reactions to each for a few weeks before more changes is a good idea, so you can distinguish. Before you see your doc, read up on aldosteronism. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > because I felt wierd and wired up, obviously my adrenals kicking up, > maybe a cortisol or aldosterone high. You may want to investigate Prunella for blood pressure. http://www.holisticonline.com/herbal-med/_Herbs/h343.htm All I can say is that it works for me. It is a mint and easy to grow. I find that a small hand fullin my drinking water works for a couple of days. The dosages given in the above cite, seem excessive to me, but play around with it. If it didn't work, I'd go back on medication. > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Susan Signature³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.² -Archbishop Helder Camara http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm In the last month, there was a new Cochrane critical study of the hypertension treatment area. They concluded that long term attempts to knock Systolic BP to less than 140 did not clinically demonstrate a benefit. ----------------------------------------- http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004349.html Aiming for blood pressure targets lower than 140/90 mmHg is not beneficial High blood pressure (BP) is linked to an increased risk of heart attack and stroke. High BP has been defined as any number larger than 140 to 160 /90 to 100 mmHg and as a result this range of BPs has become the standard blood pressure target for physicians and patients. Over the last five years a trend toward lower targets has been recommended by hypertension experts who set treatment guidelines. This trend is based on the assumption that the use of drugs to bring the BP lower than140/90 mmHg will reduce heart attack and stroke similar to that seen in some population studies. However, this approach is not proven. This review was performed to find and assess all trials designed to answer whether lower blood pressure targets are better than standard blood pressure targets. Data from 7 trials in over 22,000 people were analysed. Using more drugs in the lower target groups did achieve modestly lower blood pressures. However, this strategy did not prolong survival or reduce stroke, heart attack, heart failure or kidney failure. More trials are needed, but at present there is no evidence to support aiming for a blood pressure target lower than 140/90 mmHg in any hypertensive patient. ------------------------ There could be several reasons for you to reduce the medication level, with consultation with your doctor, of course. > I've been concerned for the past week because my blood pressure > suddenly, and dramatically has started to plummet. I've had high BP [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > --- > Peter |
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