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Diet Alone - Unlikely Leads to Significant Weight Loss

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pamela - 14 Apr 2010 14:39 GMT
A primate study, 18 female rhesus macaque monkey - on a high-fat diet
for several years - then returned to a lower-fat diet (standard monkey
food) with a 30 percent reduction in calories. During the next month of
observation - no weight loss, but a decline in activity. Further
reduction of food calories in the following month resulted in even less
physical activity.

Three monkeys on a normal diet were trained exercise 1 hour daily, and
these treadmill exercising monkeys did loose weight.

Much of this sounds familiar to readers of Taubes' "Good Calories, Bad
Calories".  I went from 240 pounds to 175 pounds following a summer of
Low Carb plus about 1,000 miles of bicycling in 2004.

Science News

[b] Diet Alone Will Not Likely Lead to Significant Weight Loss, Study
Suggests [/b]

ScienceDaily (Apr. 14, 2010) — Newly published research by scientists at
Oregon Health & Science University demonstrates that simply reducing
caloric intake is not enough to promote significant weight loss. This
appears to be due to a natural compensatory mechanism that reduces a
person's physical activity in response to a reduction in calories.

The research is published in the April edition of the American Journal
of Physiology -- Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1152/ajpregu.00617.2009

"In the midst of America's obesity epidemic, physicians frequently
advise their patients to reduce the number of calories they are
consuming on a daily basis. This research shows that simply dieting will
not likely cause substantial weight loss. Instead, diet and exercise
must be combined to achieve this goal," explained Judy Cameron Ph.D., a
senior scientist at OHSU's Oregon National Primate Research Center, and
a professor of behavioral neuroscience and obstetrics & gynecology in
the OHSU School of Medicine, as well as a professor of psychiatry at the
University of Pittsburgh.

To conduct the research, Cameron and OHSU post-doctoral fellow Elinor
Sullivan, Ph.D., studied 18 female rhesus macaque monkeys at the Oregon
National Primate Research Center. The monkeys were placed on a high-fat
diet for several years. They were then returned to a lower-fat diet
(standard monkey food) with a 30 percent reduction in calories. For a
one-month period, the monkeys' weight and activity levels were closely
tracked. Activity was tracked through the use of an activity monitor
worn on a collar.

"Surprisingly, there was no significant weight loss at the end of the
month," explained Sullivan. "However, there was a significant change in
the activity levels for these monkeys. Naturally occurring levels of
physical activity for the animals began to diminish soon after the
reduced-calorie diet began. When caloric intake was further reduced in a
second month, physical activity in the monkeys diminished even further."

A comparison group of three monkeys was fed a normal monkey diet and was
trained to exercise for one hour daily on a treadmill. This comparison
group did lose weight.

"This study demonstrates that there is a natural body mechanism which
conserves energy in response to a reduction in calories. Food is not
always plentiful for humans and animals and the body seems to have
developed a strategy for responding to these fluctuations," added
Cameron. "These findings will assist medical professionals in advising
their patients. It may also impact the development of community
interventions to battle the childhood obesity epidemic and lead to
programs that emphasize both diet and exercise."

The research was supported by the National Institutes of Health.

Story Source:

    Adapted from materials provided by Oregon Health & Science
University, via EurekAlert!, a service of AAAS.

Journal Reference:

   1. Sullivan et al. A rapidly occurring compensatory decrease in
physical activity counteracts diet-induced weight loss in female
monkeys. AJP Regulatory Integrative and Comparative Physiology, 2010;
298 (4): R1068 DOI: 10.1152/ajpregu.00617.2009

http://dx.doi.org/10.1152/ajpregu.00617.2009
mikesmith9999@hotmail.com - 14 Apr 2010 15:19 GMT
> A primate study, 18 female rhesus macaque monkey - on a high-fat diet
> for several years - then returned to a lower-fat diet (standard monkey
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
>
> http://dx.doi.org/10.1152/ajpregu.00617.2009

The title should be changed from "Diet alone..." to "REDUCTION OF
CALORIES alone..."

Here is a definiton of diet:

"A special or limited selection of food and drink, chosen or
prescribed to promote health or a gain or loss of weight"

That definition is not about cutting food intake, but of WHAT you put
in your body. For my part, I keep notes of my calorie intake only for
future studies. I've been on low-carb diet for a few days (mostly
fish, chicken, almonds, pumpkin seeds, natural peanut butter) and shed
8 pounds in 5 days.
Doug Freyburger - 14 Apr 2010 20:07 GMT
>> http://dx.doi.org/10.1152/ajpregu.00617.2009
>
> The title should be changed from "Diet alone..." to "REDUCTION OF
> CALORIES alone..."

There's a bit more to it than that.  The test monkeys when from a medium
calorie high fat diet to a low calorie low fat diet without losing.  It
was not the first study to compare those two strategies.  That's been
done with humans as well.  The mixture of fuels matters in addition to
the total energy of the fuel.

> For my part, I keep notes of my calorie intake only for
> future studies. I've been on low-carb diet for a few days (mostly
> fish, chicken, almonds, pumpkin seeds, natural peanut butter) and shed
> 8 pounds in 5 days.

In another post you wrote that you went from 195 to 170 in 45 days.  I
take it that was a different attempt or that was on a slightly different
food list so you reset your starting date?

I hope you also ate veggies.  The foods you listed are meats and
meat-like substitutes.  Nuts, seeds and legumes do count technically as
veggies rather like cucumbers count technically as fruit.  There status
is more of a technicality than a generally accepted categorization.
Billy - 14 Apr 2010 21:43 GMT
His story is starting to wander. I think it's time to bring out the
bright light and the rubber hose, if we want to get the truth, if anyone
cares.

> >> http://dx.doi.org/10.1152/ajpregu.00617.2009
> >
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> veggies rather like cucumbers count technically as fruit.  There status
> is more of a technicality than a generally accepted categorization.
Signature

- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

mikesmith9999@hotmail.com - 15 Apr 2010 04:16 GMT
> In article <hq53op$p5...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>
> His story is starting to wander. I think it's time to bring out the
> bright light and the rubber hose, if we want to get the truth, if anyone
> cares.

Nothing sinister. I was referring to two distinct periods. Go back to
my posts I wrote through the years, and you'll see enjoyed the lows of
168 pounds and the sadness of the 197 pounds. I've been on and off my
several weight-management programs. Now I hope I'll stay on the right
track. I thank Doug for always been there for me through the years. He
always replied to my questions and help me. Free of charge, I should
say.
> --
> - Billy
> "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUghttp://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn
/HZinn_page.html
- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Doug Freyburger - 15 Apr 2010 19:47 GMT
>> I think it's time to bring out the bright light and the rubber hose
>
> Nothing sinister.

Drat.  I was so looking forward to the rubber hose.  The entire latex
outfit for that matter.  Spot light, dancing pole, loud cheesy music,
latex outfit.  Oh wait. Michael not Michelle. Never mind.

Must be the other meaning for it.  You ate a legume in week 4?  Whack!
mikesmith9999@hotmail.com - 16 Apr 2010 04:57 GMT
> mikesmith9...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Must be the other meaning for it.  You ate a legume in week 4?  Whack!

I hope I can continue getting your full support.
Billy - 16 Apr 2010 06:26 GMT
In article
<8115c07a-85f3-4a31-a379-accb03922bde@y14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,

> > mikesmith9...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> I hope I can continue getting your full support.

Of course you can. By the way, what did you eat on the night of the 8th
of April?
Signature

- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

mikesmith9999@hotmail.com - 16 Apr 2010 15:46 GMT
> In article
> <8115c07a-85f3-4a31-a379-accb03922...@y14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

This is what I had for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I started at 180 pounds on Day 1 went down at one point to 176 and got
back to 180 on Day 9. Pizza and cake on Day 6, when I was at 177,
problably helped going back to 180. That's why I went low-carb on Day
10 (see below) I decided to reduce the carbs and re-introduced
psyllium and pumpkin seeds that have always helped me drop the weight.

Day 10 (179)    Calories

2tbs almond butter w/ one apple     300
Black Coffee    0
==================================
Chicken wings, 6    600
GREEN BEANS IN CAN    50
=====================================
Radish, 6    0
GREEN BEANS IN CAN    50
Pumpkin seeds, 1/3 cup     250
Peanut butter, 3tbs    300
PSYLLIUM, 1tbs    0
    ========================
TOTAL    1550
Doug Freyburger - 16 Apr 2010 18:59 GMT
> I started at 180 pounds on Day 1 went down at one point to 176 and got
> back to 180 on Day 9. Pizza and cake on Day 6, when I was at 177,
> problably helped going back to 180. That's why I went low-carb on Day
> 10 (see below) I decided to reduce the carbs and re-introduced
> psyllium and pumpkin seeds that have always helped me drop the weight.

Probably not one dieter in history has liked the fact, but the time
scale for fat loss is month to month not day to day or week to week.
Your numbers show why.  For many years I've been asserting that
Induction is one tick of the clock - The weight before and after count
but no weighings inside matter at all, not in the least.  Your numbers
show why.

To fight random water retention bounce to is fight something other than
stored fat.  To weigh daily makes it far too likely to fight random
water retention.

> Day 10 (179)    Calories
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>     ========================
> TOTAL    1550

Strange asssortment.  Strange assortments are fun but they are often
hard to sustain.  Are you past the point of carb cravings so you are not
hungry eating 1550 calories?
mikesmith9999@hotmail.com - 16 Apr 2010 19:16 GMT
> mikesmith9...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> hard to sustain.  Are you past the point of carb cravings so you are not
> hungry eating 1550 calories?

Everything I do in life is strange. I'm not the regular Joe on
anything. After eating all the above, I don't feel any hunger at all.
Carbs really drive me mad. If I wanted, I could eat either one of
these: 4 donoughts, 6 bagels, one large pizza a huge apple pie, one
liter of ice cream, 12 slices of bread with jam and peanut butter or a
bag of Aero cookies. I remember eating a whole bag of brown sugar with
a spoon. I think I counted 60 tablespoons. When the bag was empty, I
continued with the white sugar...  I was talking to  friends about
deserts I like. They were amazed at my passion about them. I don't
think they ever met someone who desire them so much. If I had only one
day to live, I would spend it at at desert store. I would eat them
until I drop dead.
Billy - 16 Apr 2010 21:05 GMT
In article
<df62bdb1-562d-4b7c-abc3-28e7be230168@i37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,

> > In article
> > <8115c07a-85f3-4a31-a379-accb03922...@y14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>     ========================
> TOTAL    1550

You beat me.

Yesterday

Dinner
med. potato = 21.15g carbs= 84.6 cal
tbl sour cream = .35g carbs= 23 cal
2 chicken thighs = 0g carbs = 218 cal
2 bacon =.22g carbs = 88 cal
bread = 14.35g carbs = 75 cal
assort. Cheese 153 + 171 cal = 324
2 dry wine= 254 calories
salad = 3 carbs = 16 cal

Total= 1086.6 cal

snack
2 tbl. jam = 27.54g carbs = 112 cal
bread = 12g carbs = 265
total = 377

breakfast
2 tortillas = 27g carbs = 130 cal
100g turkey = 170 cal
cheese = 113 cal
total = 335

Grand total = 1872 cal
carbs = 106g (not counting the wine)
-----
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/4717.php

Wine after carb-heavy meal causes drop in insulin
22 Nov 2003   

Kicking back with a few glasses of wine after dinner may be relaxing,
but it might not be so good for your health, say Australian researchers.

In a study in the November issue of Alcoholism: Clinical and
Experimental Research, researchers found drinking the equivalent of
three glasses of white wine after eating a carbohydrate-laden meal
caused insulin levels to drop.
-----

High BG? Low insulin? This was a surprise. Know anything about this,
Doug?

Huh?
http://www.aim-digest.com/gateway/pages/diabetes/articles/skoven1.htm

The treatment of diabetes before the era of insulin consisted of various
dull and unpalatable diets. One of the diets was designed by the French
physician, Bouchardat, who replaced the dangerous foods (starch and
sugar) with other foods like protein and fat. His "animal food" diet
consisted mainly of fatty meat, however, the French Doctor encouraged
the patients to wash their "animal diet" down with red wine. Dr.
Bouchardats book "De la diabète sucré" recommended 1-4 litres of Claret
or Burgundy of proper maturity at least four years old per day. The
ample supply of wine served its purpose as an important
carbohydrate-free source of energy with the added bonus of making the
meals tolerable for thousands of diabetic patients.

**Dr. Bouchardats book "De la diabète sucré" recommended 1-4 litres of
Claret or Burgundy of proper maturity at least four years old per day.**
YES! Dans mes bras.

The insulin-resistance syndrome, a defect in the ability of the body
tissues to respond adequately to insulin, also comprises hypertension,
hyperuricaemia, high levels of plasminogen activator inhibitor I, low
HDL-cholesterol levels, high triglycerides and dense LDL-cholesterol
particles. Each of the components of the syndrome is considered a risk
factor for atherosclerosis. Therapeutic options to improve insulin
sensitivity are scarce and mostly limited to changes in life-style, such
as weight loss, cessation of smoking, and increased physical activity.
This list may now be extended with a moderate consumption of alcohol
(18).

This question is asked by M.Criqui and B.Golomb in an editorial of JAMA,
July 21, 1999 (32)The US epidemiologists actually expect a greater
absolute benefit in reduction in risk for CHD in older patients with
diabetes compared with unselected populations, because they are at
higher baseline risk of coronary heart disease. "However, in patients
with diabetes, alcohol may both induce and mask potentially severe
hypoglycaemia by exaggerating hypoglycaemic effects caused by other
factors (eg, exercise or insulin, sulfonylureas, betablockers, or other
drugs). But what is true for most patients with diabetes is true for
other patients at high risk for CHD light to moderate alcohol
consumption likely provides benefit, but is contraindicated in anyone
who, for whatever reason, cannot restrict his or her drinking to light
to moderate levels. For some patients, 1 drink is plenty, 2 is too many,
and, unfortunately, 3 is not half enough."
Signature

- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

trader4@optonline.net - 16 Apr 2010 14:10 GMT
On Apr 15, 11:57 pm, "mikesmith9...@hotmail.com"
<mikesmith9...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > mikesmith9...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> I hope I can continue getting your full support.

I hope your realize a lot of that 8lbs, probably most of it,  that you
lost in the first 5 days is just water and it always happens when you
start LC.
mikesmith9999@hotmail.com - 16 Apr 2010 15:40 GMT
On Apr 16, 9:10 am, "trad...@optonline.net" <trad...@optonline.net>
wrote:
> On Apr 15, 11:57 pm, "mikesmith9...@hotmail.com"
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, I did. Extra water I no longer need, maybe? I'm feeling good. I
play hockey and commute to work every day with my bike (1h20). I feel
a bit more energy than before. I no longer need a nap in the
afternoon. I don't feel light-headed at all.
Doug Freyburger - 16 Apr 2010 19:04 GMT
> Extra water I no longer need, maybe?

The body converts glucose to glycogen to store it.  Glycogen is stored
by dissolving it in water.  Use up the stored carbs, drop the water it
was dissolved in as well.

Fat is very dense at 3500+ calories per pound with little water.  Dry
glucose crystals may be 4 calories per gram but by the time you dissolve
it in water it's down to 1 calorie per gram.  That makes fat at least 7
times as dense for the energy stored.  That's why water loss can be so
fast compared to fat loss.

> I no longer need a nap in the
> afternoon. I don't feel light-headed at all.

Buh bye insulin swings.
mikesmith9999@hotmail.com - 17 Apr 2010 00:01 GMT
> Buh bye insulin swings.

Buy bye, and never come back!

I impressed myself just two seconds ago: Someone just offered me two
donoughts for free. And I said "no!!!!!!!!!". I can't believe I did
that. I would have normally said, "Just two?".
mikesmith9999@hotmail.com - 15 Apr 2010 04:11 GMT
> In another post you wrote that you went from 195 to 170 in 45 days.  I
> take it that was a different attempt or that was on a slightly different
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> veggies rather like cucumbers count technically as fruit.  There status
> is more of a technicality than a generally accepted categorization.

Yes, the 195 to 170 was one or two years ago, and I lost 8 pounds in 5
days in the last week.

I resume my veggie intake. I had enough of these nuts and meat and did
not care for anything else. I had a mix of a can of tuna with a can of
green beans, and I had to force myself to eat these 250 calories. Then
I becom a bit worried about not having fresh veggies and fruits. I had
a banana today with natural, not salted peanut butter. It's a
wonderful mix of tastes. I know banana are high in carbs, but they do
provide potassium and have fibers. That's all I had for carbs today,
anyway.
Doug Freyburger - 15 Apr 2010 19:04 GMT
>> I hope you also ate veggies.  The foods you listed are meats and
>> meat-like substitutes.  Nuts, seeds and legumes do count technically as
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> not care for anything else. I had a mix of a can of tuna with a can of
> green beans,

Green beans are good and low carb, but they tend to get boring.
Variety.

> and I had to force myself to eat these 250 calories.

I think you and I decide "force myself" differently.  To me that's when
I am so full I feel sick so the food is pushed down against a gag.  It
looks like to you that's when you aren't hungry but you eat anyways.

To me "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" so I would
rather eat while not hungry than eat while hungry.  If I'm not hungry I
have better control so my total portions end up lower.

> Then
> I becom a bit worried about not having fresh veggies and fruits. I had
> a banana today with natural, not salted peanut butter. It's a
> wonderful mix of tastes. I know banana are high in carbs, but they do
> provide potassium and have fibers. That's all I had for carbs today,
> anyway.

A fraction of a banana.  A large portion of cauliflower.  An amount of
lettuce so big I can't finish it.  All the same carb count.  Just saying
...
Billy - 14 Apr 2010 19:12 GMT
Thanks for the study. If nothing else, it reaffirms by beliefs based on
what I've read. I lost 30 lbs about 9 months ago, with low carb, but I
seem to have hit a plateau. Damn, I may get desperate enough to
exercise;O)
> A primate study, 18 female rhesus macaque monkey - on a high-fat diet
> for several years - then returned to a lower-fat diet (standard monkey
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
>
> http://dx.doi.org/10.1152/ajpregu.00617.2009
Signature

- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

Marengo - 17 Apr 2010 18:54 GMT
>A primate study, 18 female rhesus macaque monkey - on a high-fat diet
>for several years - then returned to a lower-fat diet (standard monkey
>food) with a 30 percent reduction in calories. During the next month of
>observation - no weight loss, but a decline in activity. Further
>reduction of food calories in the following month resulted in even less
>physical activity.

>Three monkeys on a normal diet were trained exercise 1 hour daily, and
>these treadmill exercising monkeys did loose weight.

Then I'm glad I'm a human and not a monkey.  My energy level has
increased tremendously since losing weight -- without spending hours
on a treadmill.

By the way, it's "lose," not loose."  ;-)

>Much of this sounds familiar to readers of Taubes' "Good Calories, Bad
>Calories".  I went from 240 pounds to 175 pounds following a summer of
>Low Carb plus about 1,000 miles of bicycling in 2004.

I went from 270 pounds to 215 on a controlled carb diet with virtually
no additional exercise, since I have disabilities from a 1998 stroke
1998 and cannot walk fast enough to get my heart rate up.  I've
maintained my weight just by controlling what I eat.  It can be done
despite testing on three monkeys.

---
Peter
FOB - 17 Apr 2010 21:51 GMT
And I have gone from 292 to 211 over a period of years with low carb.

| By the way, it's "lose," not loose."  ;-)
|
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
| ---
| Peter
pamela - 17 Apr 2010 23:31 GMT
Unlikely..... not certainly not.

> And I have gone from 292 to 211 over a period of years with low carb.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> | ---
> | Peter
mikesmith9999@hotmail.com - 17 Apr 2010 23:33 GMT
> And I have gone from 292 to 211 over a period of years with low carb.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> | ---
> | Peter

Marengo, you and millions of others prove that whatever studies and
all these weight-loss experts in the media don't really matter, after
all. What does matter is what YOU did. You've known success with what
YOU did. Almost every time I talk about my weight-loss success to
someone, he has at least one piece of advice to give me. I tell him
right away that I don't care about what he has to say, unless I know
for a fact that he is talking by experience, not just parotting what
he heard on TV.
Marengo - 19 Apr 2010 06:34 GMT
>> And I have gone from 292 to 211 over a period of years with low carb.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>for a fact that he is talking by experience, not just parotting what
>he heard on TV.

Yep.  The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.
---
Peter
Billy - 19 Apr 2010 07:32 GMT
> >> And I have gone from 292 to 211 over a period of years with low carb.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> ---
> Peter

Lost 25 lbs, just from low carb. Now that I'm exercising and restricting
the carbs even more, I have high hopes.
Signature

- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

mikesmith9999@hotmail.com - 20 Apr 2010 00:46 GMT
> In article <ppqns5580qra8bcuaro2vpsiluq2m17...@4ax.com>,
>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> the carbs even more, I have high hopes.
> --

Congratulations, Sir! I gained a bit in the last two days, but it's
all right because I'm going back to the low-carb basics.
mikesmith9999@hotmail.com - 20 Apr 2010 00:46 GMT
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:33:06 -0700 (PDT), "mikesmith9...@hotmail.com"
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Yep.  The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.
> ---
Pudding... Chocolate pudding!!!!!!!!!! mmmmmmmmmm
 
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