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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / May 2010Looking for info on carb value of cooked vegetables
Hi I am trying to find out if the carb content of foods changes when it is cooked. Things like greens-celery, chard, escarole, etc- for soup. Seems to be a lot going on in the kettle so something must be happening! I would love to find that beans like great northern have a reduced content as that would really add to the soup I use for most of my hopefully low carb meals....this weeks is swiss chard, escarole, spices, about 1/4 pound of broken up ground beef all in beef broth. I am thinking this is about 5 or 6 carbs per cup or small bowl. Hopefully I am high! Thanks Joe > Hi > I am trying to find out if the carb content of foods changes when it is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Thanks > Joe If you eat dry beans or raw potatoes, you probably don't need to count all the carbs. Leafy vegetables are what they are (cellulose), cooked or not.  Signature- Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html >> Hi >> I am trying to find out if the carb content of foods changes when it is [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > all the carbs. Leafy vegetables are what they are (cellulose), cooked or > not. Thanks for the note. I am assuming that when you say dry beans you mean the beans would be boiled and then eaten--I can't think of any other way to eat them but want to be clear. I can do without the raw potatoes! bob abrams a écrit : >> If you eat dry beans or raw potatoes, you probably don't need to count >> all the carbs. Leafy vegetables are what they are (cellulose), cooked [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > boiled and then eaten--I can't think of any other way to eat them but > want to be clear. I can do without the raw potatoes! I think Billy's pulling your leg. He means that if you eat raw beans and raw potatoes, you don't need to count the carb because... you won't digest them at all :-)) (and btw: it will hurt). Btw, you will have more of an answer if you look for "glycemic index" of raw vegetable compared to the same vegetables cooked. Many vegetables keep their content in glucide from one state to another, but the availability of the sugars changes. Carots are a good example. Huey > bob abrams a écrit : > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Huey Definitely pulling your leg on potatoes and dry beans but not on leafy vegetables. You may want to look at carbohydrates at http://beaninstitute.com/whats-in-a-bean/bean-chemistry/ and read about resistant starches. Different methods of cooking affect their formation. The more resistant starches, the less dietary starches. Signature- Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html > >> Hi > >> I am trying to find out if the carb content of foods changes when it is [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > boiled and then eaten--I can't think of any other way to eat them but > want to be clear. I can do without the raw potatoes! No, I meant dry beans. I presume that they would be taken like pills. The idea would to digest them, before they convert to starch. Sadly, I don't see any recipes for them. Might be a bit tricky, though, when they start to swell up. Should be good fiber;O) Cooking shouldn't change the carb content of the food, but it may make it more accessible. Signature- Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html >> I am assuming that when you say dry beans you mean the beans would be >> boiled and then eaten--I can't think of any other way to eat them but >> want to be clear. Look for specialty items and it's possible to find flour that was ground from dried soy beans and likely other legumes. > No, I meant dry beans. I presume that they would be taken like pills. In the case of fava beans their powder is toxic. How much that extends to other legumes I don't know but it's enough that at least one paleolithic plans suggests avoiding any legume. I think as long as the final product is cooked and I have legumes as a small fraction of my calories I'm okay. > The idea would to digest them, before they convert to starch. Sadly, I > don't see any recipes for them. Might be a bit tricky, though, when they > start to swell up. Should be good fiber;O) > > Cooking shouldn't change the carb content of the food, but it may make > it more accessible. The only legume I enjoy raw are snow peas. Cook them too. Some of the string beans cooked and pickled were good as well. Three bean salad comes to mind. Favas not eaten here but this will be remedied. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicia_faba SignatureBill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden What use one more wake up call? http://www.thesunmagazine.org/ many stars > The only legume I enjoy raw are snow peas. Cook them too. Some of the > string beans cooked and pickled were good as well. Three bean salad > comes to mind. Favas not eaten here but this will be remedied. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicia_faba How would you like to define a legume? If you define it in botanical terms then anything from the plants will count as legumes. Snow peas and string beans are legumes by this definition. If you define it as the dried seeds from the pods, then only dried beans, peas and lentils count. Because the fresh snow peas and string beans are edible raw they would not count. Also notice that the carb count for snow peas and string beans are lower than the carb count of the dried ones. Also note that the paleolithic plans that do not allow the dried legumes do allow the fresh ones. For low carbing purposes the second definition is more useful. For my purposes I don't count snow peas or string beans as legumes. I count them by their relative carb count so for me they are in the same list of low carb veggies with brocolli and asparagus. > If you define it as the dried seeds from the pods, then only dried > beans, peas and lentils count. Because the fresh snow peas and string > beans are edible raw they would not count. So time and dehydration effect the carb perception but I wonder about the nutrition. I used to think of life force but I digress. Sort of suggests that living plant life is lower carb and that seeds are rich in carb issues. Bottom line living plants may be of more import for carb counting folks. Interesting how a plant food values can change and then there is cooking to mudding the waters and all the food preservation we encounter these days. SignatureBill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden What use one more wake up call? http://www.thesunmagazine.org/ many stars >> If you define it as the dried seeds from the pods, then only dried >> beans, peas and lentils count. Because the fresh snow peas and string >> beans are edible raw they would not count. > > So time and dehydration effect the carb perception but I wonder about > the nutrition. As the beans mature they concentrate their stored energy and also start to dry. It's a matter of how their life cycle works. > I used to think of life force but I digress. Sort of > suggests that living plant life is lower carb and that seeds are rich in > carb issues. Bottom line living plants may be of more import for carb > counting folks. That argument has both spiritual components that are matters of wide disagreement and freshness that is widely agreed upon. I mostly discuss spiritual issues on other newsgroups. Thor likes coffee. I've never asked him why but it's long been clear that he enjoys it when it is shared with him. The old tradition is that he likes dark beer. That's higher in carb but Guinness isn't any higher in carb than most see through beers so it's not all that bad to share a Guinness with Redbeard every week or so. >> The only legume I enjoy raw are snow peas. Cook them too. Some of the >> string beans cooked and pickled were good as well. Three bean salad [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > them by their relative carb count so for me they are in the same list of > low carb veggies with brocolli and asparagus. Snow peas brings something to me that I can enjoy. Thanks. > >> The only legume I enjoy raw are snow peas. Cook them too. Some of the > >> string beans cooked and pickled were good as well. Three bean salad [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > low carb veggies with brocolli and asparagus. > Snow peas brings something to me that I can enjoy. Thanks. The you may enjoy this as well. <http://www.theproducehunter.com/productdisplay.asp?ID=2275> <http://www.flavorandfortune.com/dataaccess/article.php?ID=307> Signature- Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html In article <wildbilly-03B7FA.11343214052010@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>, > > >> The only legume I enjoy raw are snow peas. Cook them too. Some of the > > >> string beans cooked and pickled were good as well. Three bean salad [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > <http://www.flavorandfortune.com/dataaccess/article.php?ID=307> Always ate snow peas as a sort of garden nibble. "ou miao or pea shoots, like many Asian vegetables, go by a confusing number of names. Some people call them 'pea vines' others say 'pea tips,' still others call them 'pea stems.' Because they are the tender tips of the edible pea plant--the top several leaves and the tendril that ends the vine, different names are used. " I'll second the notion about being confusing. Which brings me to a favorite most likely untrue story. Why did the classical Chinese sciences not have a strong interest in botany? Cause they always wondered what it would taste like. SignatureBill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden What use one more wake up call? http://www.thesunmagazine.org/ >>>> The only legume I enjoy raw are snow peas. Cook them too. Some of the >>>> string beans cooked and pickled were good as well. Three bean salad [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > <http://www.flavorandfortune.com/dataaccess/article.php?ID=307> Do you know if this snow pea vegetable is grown in the US? I a leery when they say they are easier to grow in artificial environments as I have read way too much about the vagaries of Chinese indoor or controlled farming and the types of fertilizer used. Thanks > >>>> The only legume I enjoy raw are snow peas. Cook them too. Some of the > >>>> string beans cooked and pickled were good as well. Three bean salad [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Thanks I'm still learning about peas shoots. I had some stir-fried last night. the stems were rather chewy, but maybe, I'm only to eat the growing tip of the plant, whereas I harvested any ol' tendrils and ended up feeling like a cow chewing her cud. I'll report back on my next attempt. Signature- Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html > Do you know if this snow pea vegetable is grown in the US? > I a leery when they say they are easier to grow in artificial > environments as I have read way too much about the vagaries of Chinese > indoor or controlled farming and the types of fertilizer used. I regularly see snow peas in the grocery and produce market, especially in the spring. These days, all markets should have signs telling you where their produce is from. Mine regularly has produce from the US, Canada, and Mexico, and fruit from the southern hemisphere (Chile, New Zealand, etc.). I don't think I've ever seen produce from China (though I have seen seafood from there, I think). And, of course, you can grow snow peas in your vegetable garden, though they should have been planted, in most zones, at least a month ago. Signature"[xxx] has very definite opinions, and does not suffer fools lightly. This, apparently, upsets the fools." ---BB cuts to the pith of a flame-fest > > Do you know if this snow pea vegetable is grown in the US? > > I a leery when they say they are easier to grow in artificial [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > snow peas in your vegetable garden, though they should have been > planted, in most zones, at least a month ago. Snow peas can be planted in the fall too. We liked Sugar Ann. Some different varieties listed in below URL but you can purchase from anywhere. <http://www.johnnyseeds.com/search.aspx?SearchTerm=snow+peas> SignatureBill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden What use one more wake up call? http://www.thesunmagazine.org/ > > Do you know if this snow pea vegetable is grown in the US? > > I a leery when they say they are easier to grow in artificial [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > snow peas in your vegetable garden, though they should have been > planted, in most zones, at least a month ago. Buy as locally, and in season as you can. The food will be healthier, and so will the planet. Signature- Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html >>> I am assuming that when you say dry beans you mean the beans would be >>> boiled and then eaten--I can't think of any other way to eat them but [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> Cooking shouldn't change the carb content of the food, but it may make >> it more accessible. I am looking for some bean taste and 'chewieness' like the cooked white beans give. I think I will try the black soybeans but, in general, I have been disappointed in the taste department with anything soybean. Thanks for the post | Hi | I am trying to find out if the carb content of foods changes when it is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] | Thanks | Joe This USDA website should give you the raw/cooked information you want. It's a bit cumbersome but pretty authoritative: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ pavane If you want beans that are low carb look for Eden's Black Soy Beans (canned). They taste very good and are low in carbs and high in protein. You can buy them online: http://www.edenfoods.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=103050 They have dry ones, too, if you're into more work: http://www.edenfoods.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=102814 | Hi | I am trying to find out if the carb content of foods changes when it [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] | Thanks | Joe > If you want beans that are low carb look for Eden's Black Soy Beans > (canned). They taste very good and are low in carbs and high in protein. > You can buy them online: > http://www.edenfoods.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=103050 > They have dry ones, too, if you're into more work: > http://www.edenfoods.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=102814 All of my local groceries carry them, either in the bean section or the natural foods section. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Susan I use the Eden Black Soybeans too. I use them for chili, bean soup, franks and beans, barbecue beans, etc. When used in recipes like this, they are remarkably similar to regular beans. One strange thing though. Eden also makes these in white version. The carb count on the white vesion is substantially higher than that on the black ones. The black ones have such a low net carb count and one that doesn't seem to be consistent with other data, like the USDA database, that it seems questionable. However, even if it's several grams a serving higher, it's still very low carb and probably not worth worrying about. I'm also curious about what makes one version white versus black. Are they really different soybeans or do they use dye? I don't think they are dyed. Like other beans, there are different varieties of soybeans. If you Google black soybeans you will find a lot of info and recipes for them. | I use the Eden Black Soybeans too. I use them for chili, bean soup, | franks and beans, barbecue beans, etc. When used in recipes like [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] | white versus black. Are they really different soybeans or do they use | dye? > If you want beans that are low carb look for Eden's Black Soy Beans > (canned). They taste very good and are low in carbs and high in protein. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > | Thanks > | Joe Thanks for the time > Hi > I am trying to find out if the carb content of foods changes when it is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Thanks > Joe When foods are cooked, what often happens is that the carbs in them become much more digestible, more rapidly and more completely, so they have more potential to spike bg. If you need a bean substitute, try Eden black soybeans; they're almost entirely protein and fiber. Susan > I am trying to find out if the carb content of foods changes when it is > cooked. Things like greens-celery, chard, escarole, etc- for soup. Seems > to be a lot going on in the kettle so something must be happening! Check the USDA database. The more you work at it the more you're likely to concluse that cooking has little effect on the count. One of the theories of human evolution is that when our ancestors moved from the trees to the plains they switched from mostly fruit to mostly root vegitables and they discovered that fire made root vegitables better tasting and easier to digest. I figure the theory is true but only one of several evolutionary events. When I first thought about the theory I concluded that cooking must covert fiber to starch. When I looked though the USDA database and took out the water content I looked to see if that was true. It turns out it is not true, though at first I misread the numbers on the topic. Cooking does increase the digestability of roots but it does so by breaking them up and making them softer and easier to chew not by digesting fiber into starch. Absorption by digestion seems to be better after cooking but that does not get reflected in carb counts. I'm not sure what that implies - Carb counts work so I guess it implies that accuracy isn't as important as folks want it to be. |
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