Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / January 2004
Is saggy/extra skin inevitable?
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jumbles - 05 Jan 2004 01:55 GMT I'm getting ready to lose a chunk of weight, about 50-65 lbs (notice the positive attitude)--will likely ease into Atkins after establishing an exercise routine over 2-3 weeks and slowly weeding out sweets to make induction easier (this worked for me in the past--but I fell off the exercise wagon a year later and gained back 15 lbs). Anyway, one thing that scares me is losing the weight and then having excess skin which will not go away. Am I wrong that not everyone will be left with huge flaps--I know some people who have lost 50, 60, 70 lbs and didn't have excess flaps (or so they say). So can it be avoided??? I realize some/most of it has to do with skin elasticity, but come on folks, any of you "big losers" out there who didn't have to follow-up with cosmetic surgery to remove the skin?? I don't have a problem with cosmetic surgery and might have the boobs lifted if they are too saggy afterwards, but I just dread the other.
Will post stats when I actually start....in about 2 weeks.
jumbles
Andrea Bostrom - 05 Jan 2004 02:11 GMT Try taking fish oil capsules and biotin --- don't know about the saggy skin but both will do wonders for your hair and general skin condition (but beware the fish oil burps!).
Andrea
Ignoramus18675 - 05 Jan 2004 02:28 GMT Fish oil is also available in liquid form. Very yummy. My 2.5 yo son also likes its taste.
Check out webvitamins.com
http://webvitamins.com/product.aspx?id=14095
We are through three bottles already, will buy some more soon...
i
> Try taking fish oil capsules and biotin --- don't know about the saggy > skin but both will do wonders for your hair and general skin condition (but > beware the fish oil burps!). > > Andrea > Fish oil is also available in liquid form. Very yummy. My 2.5 yo son > also likes its taste. if that taste is anything like fish then it's un-acceptable.
how about fish oil in liquid form that tastes like chocolate?
then i could put it on ice cream and it would be tolerable
> Check out webvitamins.com > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > Andrea Chakolate - 05 Jan 2004 02:25 GMT > I'm getting ready to lose a chunk of weight, about 50-65 lbs (notice the > positive attitude)--will likely ease into Atkins after establishing an [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Will post stats when I actually start....in about 2 weeks. IME there are three things you can do to minimize the extra skin:
1) exercise, 2) exercise, and 3) exercise.
It really does help tighten the skin.
Chakolate
 Signature Hear and you forget; see and you remember; do and you understand. --Confucius
Ignoramus18675 - 05 Jan 2004 02:25 GMT This mostly depends on your age and how quickly you lose weight... And even then it was reported that results are not predictable So... how old are you?
i who lost 48 lbs and did not have saggy skin
> I'm getting ready to lose a chunk of weight, about 50-65 lbs (notice the > positive attitude)--will likely ease into Atkins after establishing an [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > jumbles Robyn Rosenthal - 05 Jan 2004 02:48 GMT I can't tell you what will work for you, but I can tell you what worked for me.
EXERCISE, eating good fats (lots of extra virgin olive oil and sufficient protein and drinking lots of water.
I lost approx 1/3 of my bodyweight in about a year and have less saggy skin than I had before the weight loss.
I gained a lot of weight very fast when I was pregnant with my son and had GHASTLY, disfiguring stretchmarks and saggy skin on my belly.
My son is 23, so I had this nasty baggy skin and stretch marks for a long time:(
And two different plastic surgeons told me that my overall skin-tone and elasticity was so bad that they would not touch the project because it would leave such ugly scars that I wouldn't be happy with the results.
My stomach is not bikini-worthy (yet) but the wrinky skin is about 99% smoothed out and the stretchmarks have faded enough to be invisible unless you are looking for them.
Thanks to LC, the sags that were there when my waist was 8" larger are gone.
I do have a little boob sag, but it is about the same as it was before the weight loss.
Olive oil might not be the "fountain of youth" for everyone, but all of those little wrinkles that I used to have on my face & my neck are gone and no one (except my boyfriend) believes that I didn't have any "work" done on my face.
Now, if we could find something other than bleach to hide the gray hair......
Robyn
Cyndi - 05 Jan 2004 02:53 GMT What types of exercise have you done to help tighten your belly? I will do them!!!
> I can't tell you what will work for you, but I can tell you what worked for me. > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Robyn Robyn Rosenthal - 05 Jan 2004 03:03 GMT >From: "Cyndi" khalamity@mchsi.com >Newsgroups: alt.support.diet.low-carb
>What types of exercise have you done to help tighten your belly? I will do >them!!! Cyndi,
It is not just the ab work because my skin is better all over.
I do weight training twice a week, usually doing weighted crunches for my abs, and cardio (high intensity interval training) twice a week.
Also, one thing that I do that a lot of people say is stupid, but i think helps, is stomach vacuums. I do these in the shower while the conditioner is sitting on my hair. What I do is exhale all of the air from my lungs and then suck in my gut as high up into my rib cage as I can. I know it sounds like bS, but I really think it helps.
Then again, I think *any* exercise as long as it is done consistently is an important part of being healthier.
Robyn
Beemie - 05 Jan 2004 14:22 GMT your stomach exercises do not sound stupid, I do that at every red light !
Jean B. - 05 Jan 2004 11:12 GMT > I can't tell you what will work for you, but I can tell you what worked for me. > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Robyn How old are you, Robyn? I am almost 54. (I also spent ca 10 years sunbathing in my foolish teens and early 20s.) My skin, which looked young, suddenly looks very old. I hate it!
 Signature Jean B.
Robyn Rosenthal - 05 Jan 2004 15:05 GMT >From: "Jean B." jbxyz@rcn.com
>How old are you, Robyn? I am almost 54. (I also spent ca 10 >years sunbathing in my foolish teens and early 20s.) My skin, >which looked young, suddenly looks very old. I hate it! Jean,
I am in my 40s, but before starting LC, I looked older:)
Everyone responds to things differently, but I eat a LOT of olive oil & butter.
My mother was one of those protein=bad/vegetarian=good types when I was growing up and then the 1980s and the whole mainstream fat is evil thing came along so I never got into the habit of eating enough fat/protein.
I joke around that I am making up for lost time, but honestly the more fat I eat the better I look -- it is truly scary.
Robyn *********************************** Robyn Lori Rosenthal Sterling Cotons and Park Place Grooming Sterling, VA USA ***********************************
Chakolate - 05 Jan 2004 16:37 GMT > Now, if we could find something other than bleach to hide the gray > hair...... Don't hide it - that never works. Flaunt it!
Chakolate, whose roof is quite snowy
 Signature Hear and you forget; see and you remember; do and you understand. --Confucius
FOB - 05 Jan 2004 20:40 GMT Home hair coloring is very easy these days.
FOB, A Garnier Nutrisse Pomegranate
In news:Xns94676C2999754chakolatehotmailcom@130.133.1.4, Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpammers@hotmail.com> stated
|| Now, if we could find something other than bleach to hide the gray || hair...... | | Don't hide it - that never works. Flaunt it! | | Chakolate, whose roof is quite snowy Chakolate - 05 Jan 2004 20:59 GMT > Home hair coloring is very easy these days. > > FOB, A Garnier Nutrisse Pomegranate I don't mean you can't color it. I suppose I was thinking of my 79-year- old mother, who has used Clairol for as long as I can remember, and looks unbelievably silly with Honey Blonde hair around her wrinkled, wizened face.
To me, colored hair just doesn't look right.
Chakolate
FOB - 06 Jan 2004 00:09 GMT Well, I'm only 68, think it looks pretty good. http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL39/1526244/2915437/42030295.jpg
In news:Xns9467988DB7B3Cchakolatehotmailcom@130.133.1.4, Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpammers@hotmail.com> stated
|| Home hair coloring is very easy these days. || [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] | | Chakolate Tracy - 06 Jan 2004 17:16 GMT > Well, I'm only 68, think it looks pretty good. > http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL39/1526244/2915437/42030295.jpg [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > || > || FOB, A Garnier Nutrisse Pomegranate You are not 68...I bet you add 15+ years to your real age so people will tell you how great you look! ;-)
Seriously, though, you look great. I'm with you, I'll probably never stop coloring my hair. Some people may not like the way I look, but who cares?
Tracy in ID
FOB - 06 Jan 2004 23:06 GMT Thank you, but I am telling the truth. I always had oily skin, was still going to the dermatologist for acne in my 30s. He told me that the upside was that I wouldn't get wrinkles as fast as those with dry skin. It's only been about ten years since I stopped using acne soap. Now I have to use moisturizer, particularly in the winter, and I have a hard time remembering to do it all the time. I was down 30 lbs in that picture, have lost 6 more now and have a long way to go so the skin will probably get wrinklier as it loses the underlying fat but I have been surprised at how much I have lost in the double chin area.
I agree with who cares, you have to like what you see in the mirror. I think actual looks influence others less than the confidence that you project.
In news:c4CKb.34$Uq6.13305@news.uswest.net, Tracy <chandani@qwest.net> stated
| You are not 68...I bet you add 15+ years to your real age so people | will tell you how great you look! ;-) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | | Tracy in ID The Queen of Cans and Jars - 05 Jan 2004 22:09 GMT > > Now, if we could find something other than bleach to hide the gray > > hair...... > > Don't hide it - that never works. Flaunt it! amen. i'm not hiding mine ... and i'm not cutting it, either. i wanna look like emmylou harris when i grow up.
Cyndi - 05 Jan 2004 02:51 GMT I completely understand why you would ask such a question, as I wonder the same thing. After having two children and putting on too much weight, I have a huge "flap" now, and worry very much if the flap will end up at my knees before all is said and done... I will not have any time of surgery to remove it if I do end up with a great big fold under my belly, so it would be really cool if there is any suggestions that can help. Of course, exercise is a very legitimate suggestion!
> I'm getting ready to lose a chunk of weight, about 50-65 lbs (notice the > positive attitude)--will likely ease into Atkins after establishing an [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > jumbles Taffy Stoker - 05 Jan 2004 14:53 GMT >. I will not have any time of surgery to >remove it if I do end up with a great big fold under my belly I would in a heartbeat. :-)
Sarah Fox Jahn - 05 Jan 2004 02:58 GMT >I'm getting ready to lose a chunk of weight, about 50-65 lbs (notice the >positive attitude)--will likely ease into Atkins after establishing an I lost 50 pounds, from 209 to 159, being 5'8", and I certainly didn't have "huge flaps" of skin left. 50-70 pounds lost is not THAT much... criminy, definitely didn't need a scapel! Ok, I was 30 years old at the time, but I still think skin can rebound from a 50-70 pound loss without a problem. Unless you're quite elderly. How old are you?
Now, 150+ pounds, maybe. 300+, very likely.
If you have no problem with "boob lifts", why the dread of having excess skin removed?
Anyway, I think you'll be fine. Sarah Jahn
Luna - 05 Jan 2004 03:02 GMT > I'm getting ready to lose a chunk of weight, about 50-65 lbs (notice the > positive attitude)--will likely ease into Atkins after establishing an [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > jumbles I remember reading somewhere that you can test your skin elasticity by pinching the back of your hand. If the skin snaps right back, then you have good elasticity, and therefore less likelihood of having baggy skin. I don't know how scientific this is. I've lost 40ish pounds with another 20 or 30 to go, and I have no saggy skin yet.
 Signature -Michelle Levin (Luna) http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick http://www.mindspring.com/~designbyluna
Taffy Stoker - 05 Jan 2004 14:56 GMT >I remember reading somewhere that you can test your skin elasticity by >pinching the back of your hand. If the skin snaps right back, then you >have good elasticity, and therefore less likelihood of having baggy skin. >I don't know how scientific this is. I've lost 40ish pounds with another >20 or 30 to go, and I have no saggy skin yet. You also have not had any pregnancies or back to back C-sections so naturally you would not be saggy as opposed to someone who has had those things as I have.
Luna - 05 Jan 2004 17:15 GMT > >I remember reading somewhere that you can test your skin elasticity by > >pinching the back of your hand. If the skin snaps right back, then you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > so naturally you would not be saggy as opposed to someone who has had > those things as I have. True. It seems to vary from person to person though. My sister has saggy wrinkly skin on her tummy after two pregnancies, my cousin doesn't. Neither one of them had a C-section though. I hope I AM a mom someday, I would gladly accept saggy skin and (more) stretchmarks in exchange for the priviledge of being a mom. I'm almost out of time though, so I may just have to settle for a cat.
 Signature -Michelle Levin (Luna) http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick http://www.mindspring.com/~designbyluna
Taffy Stoker - 07 Jan 2004 00:48 GMT >True. It seems to vary from person to person though. My sister has saggy >wrinkly skin on her tummy after two pregnancies, my cousin doesn't. Neither >one of them had a C-section though. I hope I AM a mom someday, I would >gladly accept saggy skin and (more) stretchmarks in exchange for the >priviledge of being a mom. I'm almost out of time though, so I may just >have to settle for a cat. You're still young enough and I have a friend who just had a perfectly healthy daughter at the age of 41.
Luna - 07 Jan 2004 05:19 GMT > >True. It seems to vary from person to person though. My sister has saggy > >wrinkly skin on her tummy after two pregnancies, my cousin doesn't. Neither [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You're still young enough and I have a friend who just had a perfectly > healthy daughter at the age of 41. Cool. I don't think that's the norm though, but good for her! I just think of myself as running out of time because I'm not dating anyone right now, and I'd want to date someone for at least 2 years before getting married, and then be married at least 2 more years before having a baby. And I've heard that if you're a woman and you're not married by age 30 then statistically, you probably won't get married. I'm 28, so . . . oh well.
 Signature -Michelle Levin (Luna) http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick http://www.mindspring.com/~designbyluna
Aramanth Dawe - 07 Jan 2004 06:12 GMT >Cool. I don't think that's the norm though, but good for her! I just >think of myself as running out of time because I'm not dating anyone right >now, and I'd want to date someone for at least 2 years before getting >married, and then be married at least 2 more years before having a baby. >And I've heard that if you're a woman and you're not married by age 30 then >statistically, you probably won't get married. I'm 28, so . . . oh well. I got married at 29, to someone I had known for YEARS but had not seen in a romantic light for much of it. I had my first baby at 31, my second at 32. We celebrated our 11th anniversary last December (12/12 - one of the few dates that it doesn't matter which side of the Pond you are!) and are still really happy together.
My sister had a healthy son (her 5th child) at 35. One of my dearest friends had her second at 39. There are women around now having healthy babies well into their 40s or even 50s. While I certainly wouldn't recommend waiting *THAT* long (who wants to be dealing with Teenage Hormone Tantrums when the parents are in their 60s?) I don't think that at 28 you're exactly On The Shelf.
Aramanth
Robibnikoff - 07 Jan 2004 21:15 GMT >>Cool. I don't think that's the norm though, but good for her! I just >>think of myself as running out of time because I'm not dating anyone right [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Teenage Hormone Tantrums when the parents are in their 60s?) I don't >think that at 28 you're exactly On The Shelf. Goodness no - I got married at age 35 and have my first (and only) child at age 37. Frankly, I'm glad I waited to do both (a lot of my friends wish they'd done the same).
Robyn
Taffy Stoker - 07 Jan 2004 06:15 GMT >Cool. I don't think that's the norm though, but good for her! She was pretty surprised as the pregnancy was a complete surprise to her and her hubby. She thought she was going through menopause.
> I just >think of myself as running out of time because I'm not dating anyone right >now, TOTALLY understandable considering what you just went through with the last guy you were with (I just went through the exact same thing and have no desire to date at all. I just want to work on me for a good long time before I jump into those waters again)
> and I'd want to date someone for at least 2 years before getting >married, and then be married at least 2 more years before having a baby. >And I've heard that if you're a woman and you're not married by age 30 then >statistically, you probably won't get married. I'm 28, so . . . oh well. My sister got married at 36 but her hubby and her had 5 kids between them both from previous relationships. Many women get married after 30 including women who do not have kids yet.
Jean B. - 07 Jan 2004 11:08 GMT > > >True. It seems to vary from person to person though. My sister has saggy > > >wrinkly skin on her tummy after two pregnancies, my cousin doesn't. Neither [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick > http://www.mindspring.com/~designbyluna I wouldn't call that running out of time, Luna. I had my daughter when I was almost 41. By your calculations, you have a lot of time.
 Signature Jean B.
Chakolate - 05 Jan 2004 16:41 GMT > I remember reading somewhere that you can test your skin elasticity by > pinching the back of your hand. If the skin snaps right back, then > you have good elasticity, and therefore less likelihood of having > baggy skin. I don't know how scientific this is. I've lost 40ish > pounds with another 20 or 30 to go, and I have no saggy skin yet. Could you define 'right back' in terms of seconds? Mine goes back in less that one second, but it hardly snaps back. And do you mean when your hand is flat, or closed?
Chakolate
 Signature Hear and you forget; see and you remember; do and you understand. --Confucius
Luna - 05 Jan 2004 17:16 GMT > > I remember reading somewhere that you can test your skin elasticity by > > pinching the back of your hand. If the skin snaps right back, then [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Chakolate You know what? I have no idea, lol. Sorry about not knowing the details, I was just repeating something I vaguely remembered reading on this group.
 Signature -Michelle Levin (Luna) http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick http://www.mindspring.com/~designbyluna
jamie - 05 Jan 2004 18:35 GMT >> I remember reading somewhere that you can test your skin elasticity by >> pinching the back of your hand. If the skin snaps right back, then [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that one second, but it hardly snaps back. And do you mean when your hand > is flat, or closed? I believe that particular test is more relevant to testing whether or not you're dehydrated than your skin elasticity.
 Signature jamie (jamiemck@newsguy.com)
"There's a seeker born every minute."
~K - 06 Jan 2004 00:40 GMT I've lost 125 pounds off my 5'4" frame and I have terrible sagging skin on my tummy, thighs and I won't get into the details -- however if the "pinch test" were really valid for everyone I shouldn't have any --- just my experience.
I jokingly tell my hubby I'm really a Shari pei (wrinkle dog).
My health insurance has agreed to pay for all my reconstructive surgeries (tummy tuck, thighplasty and breast reconstruction) --- now if I can only build up the nerve to go through with it -- hopefully sometime this year...
~K
Low carbing with Hubby 01/05/04
The scales: ~K 265/148/130 (had WLS 03/05/02) ~J 238/238/200
My website: http://www.geocities.com/lilmskitty@sbcglobal.net/index.htm
> > I remember reading somewhere that you can test your skin elasticity by > > pinching the back of your hand. If the skin snaps right back, then [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Chakolate The Queen of Cans and Jars - 06 Jan 2004 02:14 GMT > I've lost 125 pounds off my 5'4" frame and I have terrible sagging skin on > my tummy, thighs and I won't get into the details -- however if the "pinch [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > My website: http://www.geocities.com/lilmskitty@sbcglobal.net/index.htm ~K, your letter to your insurance company made me cry. congratulations on your success. you look wonderful.
~K - 06 Jan 2004 03:25 GMT Sorry to have made you cry queen -- it was just an honest letter from the heart & soul...
 Signature ~K
Low carbing with Hubby 01/05/04
The scales: ~K 265/148/130 (had WLS 03/05/02) ~J 238/238/200
My website: http://www.geocities.com/lilmskitty@sbcglobal.net/index.htm
> > I've lost 125 pounds off my 5'4" frame and I have terrible sagging skin on > > my tummy, thighs and I won't get into the details -- however if the "pinch [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > ~K, your letter to your insurance company made me cry. congratulations > on your success. you look wonderful. Sprgtime - 05 Jan 2004 03:10 GMT Okay, I am answering the question about saggy/extra skin inevitable as a "No"
Unfortunately, I don't really have any hidden wisdom to share.
> Am I wrong that not everyone will be left with huge > flaps--I know some people who have lost 50, 60, 70 lbs and didn't have > excess flaps (or so they say). So can it be avoided??? It must be avoidable, because... the first year I was married, my husband lost 70 pounds. He has absolutely NO flappy skin. :) The only place we noticed were his elbows were really stretchy for a little while... if he would pull on his elbow skin, you could stretch it wayyy out, but that somehow shrunk back with time because he looks completely normal everywhere. And very cute. :)
During that year, he did NO exercise (well, as little as a newlywed can get away with, hee hee) He worked at a desk computer job, sitting all day, would come home and watch tv / sit at the computer for the majority of the time left. The most walking he did was the 4 porch steps you have to take to get up to our house.
So maybe he was blessed with great elasticity, I don't know. I'm still a little jealous that he was able to lose 70 lbs without any effort on his part, although I'm happy I get to enjoy the end results.
So, my point is, obviously not everybody ends up with baggy skin. Oh, and his stats... he was 28, his start weight was 300, after a year he was 230. During the year after the weight loss his skin really toned/tightened for some unknown reason. He is now (4 years later) 220, and we are both starting Atkins to slim down.
Good luck!
Spring
Cyndi - 05 Jan 2004 03:20 GMT If anything, the elbow skin pulling sounds sorta fun! LOL
> Okay, I am answering the question about saggy/extra skin inevitable as a > "No" [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Spring Angie - 05 Jan 2004 03:45 GMT > I'm getting ready to lose a chunk of weight, about 50-65 lbs (notice the > positive attitude)--will likely ease into Atkins after establishing an [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > jumbles Hi jumbles,
I lost 155 pounds by weightlifting and eating very healthy. My skin is better than it's ever been. Before I started, I had extremely sagging skin and everything is now tighter.
Best wishes on your journey. : )
Angie
Taffy Stoker - 05 Jan 2004 14:52 GMT >I'm getting ready to lose a chunk of weight, about 50-65 lbs (notice the >positive attitude)--will likely ease into Atkins after establishing an [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >surgery and might have the boobs lifted if they are too saggy >afterwards, but I just dread the other. I worry about that myself because I still have 200 pounds to lose and have had 2 C-sections in the past so things aren't exactly tight down there abdomen-wise right now.
jamie - 05 Jan 2004 15:48 GMT > I'm getting ready to lose a chunk of weight, about 50-65 lbs [snipped]
> that scares me is losing the weight and then having excess skin which > will not go away. Am I wrong that not everyone will be left with huge > flaps--I know some people who have lost 50, 60, 70 lbs and didn't have > excess flaps (or so they say). So can it be avoided??? How tall are you, and how old are you?
I lost 43 pounds on a 5-foot frame. I had just turned 40 when I started Atkins. I believe this is comparable to, say, a 5-foot-8 person losing about 70 pounds. By the time I reached goal weight, I felt that my skin was about a size and a half too large in some places, especially upper arms, thighs, belly, back. It tightened up somewhat over the next couple of years maintaining my target weight. It was probably never noticable to anyone other than myself.
How much your skin will be able to recover depends on your genetics, your age, and how much damage (stretch marks) there is to the skin. Exercise can help fill out loose skin with some muscle, but it doesn't tighten the skin itself.
 Signature jamie (jamiemck@newsguy.com)
"There's a seeker born every minute."
Chakolate - 05 Jan 2004 18:21 GMT > How much your skin will be able to recover depends on your genetics, > your age, and how much damage (stretch marks) there is to the skin. > Exercise can help fill out loose skin with some muscle, but it > doesn't tighten the skin itself. Actually, I'm told (by a doctor and a nutritionist) that it does help the skin tighten itself. I don't have any references, but when I lost a ton (okay, only 80 pounds) before, I was riding my bike every day, and the skin on my legs definitely tightened up faster than on my arms and belly.
Chakolate
 Signature Started low-carbing 8-26-03 242/200/150 As of Christmas Day, 2003, BMI under 30.
hoggwild89 - 06 Jan 2004 01:19 GMT I lost 85 pounds and have belly flab (flap?) I now work out 2 or 3 times a week and I really dont think its helping, even with a lot of AB workouts. Skinny arms and legs though, LOL. No slice and dice for me.
Hoggy
 Signature -------------------------------------------------------------- "Your never really alone with a schizophrenic." An unknown comedian.
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> I'm getting ready to lose a chunk of weight, about 50-65 lbs (notice the > positive attitude)--will likely ease into Atkins after establishing an [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > jumbles
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