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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / January 2004

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Obesity shortens life span - Does starvation diet lengthen life span

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PJx - 09 Jan 2004 17:31 GMT
I'm sure it does from the research I've heard lately.  While many may
argue otherwise, what I really want to know is how many calories I
should eat to simulate the starvation diet that has been used on
monkeys and rats that were given 30% less calories than a normal diet
provides.

So I'll ask her as many seem to know these things.   At 5'7" and 160
pounds, just how many calories is normal for a 60 yr old, relatively
inactive man.  If I get the will-power together, I'll take 70% of that
amount and start my journey to better health and longevity.

PJ
Pat - 09 Jan 2004 17:38 GMT
>  I'm sure it does from the research I've heard lately.  While many may
> argue otherwise, what I really want to know is how many calories I
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> PJ

Um, there is a quality of life issue here as well. You may live a bit
longer, but you won't enjoy it.  Starvation is not "better health."

Pat in TX
PJx - 09 Jan 2004 17:47 GMT
> snip
>>  So I'll ask here as many seem to know these things.   At 5'7" and 160
>> pounds, just how many calories is normal for a 60 yr old, relatively
>> inactive man.  If I get the will-power together, I'll take 70% of that
>> amount and start my journey to better health and longevity.
>> PJ

>Um, there is a quality of life issue here as well. You may live a bit
>longer, but you won't enjoy it.  Starvation is not "better health."
>Pat in TX

I've heard that there are those who "Live to eat" and others who "Eat
to live".   I want to be in the second group.... <g>
PJ
Ignoramus30622 - 09 Jan 2004 18:04 GMT
>> snip
>>>  So I'll ask here as many seem to know these things.   At 5'7" and 160
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>  I've heard that there are those who "Live to eat" and others who "Eat
> to live".   I want to be in the second group.... <g>

Visit sci.life-extension, there are a few people who practice CR who
are hanging out there. See my another post also, for book suggestions.

i
Bobo Bonobo? - 10 Jan 2004 01:22 GMT
> > snip
> >>  So I'll ask here as many seem to know these things.   At 5'7" and 160
> >> pounds, just how many calories is normal for a 60 yr old, relatively
> >> inactive man.  If I get the will-power together, I'll take 70% of that
> >> amount and start my journey to better health and longevity.

To heck with counting calories.  Around this neck o' the woods what we
count is carbs.

> >> PJ
>  
> >Um, there is a quality of life issue here as well. You may live a bit
> >longer, but you won't enjoy it.  Starvation is not "better health."

Some of my family members go whole days on little other than water.
They don't have eating disorders, they just like to binge and fast.
All of them who do that look great.  My one niece claims that after a
big eating day she's just not hungry the next day.  Until recently she
was a dancer and she's very athletic.

> >Pat in TX
>
>  I've heard that there are those who "Live to eat" and others who "Eat
> to live".   I want to be in the second group.... <g>

I want to keep a foot in both groups.  The high fat, high fiber,
adequate protein, low carb approach allows me to do so.  I am a
hedonist who has managed to produce the below numbers while still
maintaining my passionate love affair with food.  Now, I think I'll go
make one of my Jethroesque salads, a bowl about 14' in diameter and
almost that tall full of lettuce that has had a few teaspoons of fresh
squeezed lemon juice and a few shakes of grated parmesan tossed in.

> PJ

--Bryan 198/148/152/155
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 10 Jan 2004 01:33 GMT
> To heck with counting calories.  Around this neck o' the woods what we
> count is carbs.

speak for yourself, pal.
JC Der Koenig - 10 Jan 2004 02:05 GMT
Try doing some exercise, you weak little f.ck.

Signature

JC

Eat less, exercise more.

--

> >
> > > snip
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> --Bryan 198/148/152/155
Ignoramus30622 - 10 Jan 2004 02:29 GMT
> Some of my family members go whole days on little other than water.
> They don't have eating disorders, they just like to binge and fast.
> All of them who do that look great.  My one niece claims that after a
> big eating day she's just not hungry the next day.  Until recently she
> was a dancer and she's very athletic.

I recently fasted for one whole day. Meaning I would eat around 5pm,
not eat anything in the evening and the whole next day, and would have a
breakfast and eat regularly the following day. Just did that this last
Thursday. It was not that difficult. I also exercised on Friday
morning (before eating), and my exercise performance was not
diminished.

While I don't think one could build a real weight loss/maintenance
program around fasting, it may have its place if done carefully.

i
JC Der Koenig - 10 Jan 2004 02:42 GMT
Check out "The Warriot Diet".

During weekdays I only eat between about 5 pm and 9 pm.

That means I fast for 20 hours per day, for those of you who have trouble
with the math.

Signature

JC

Eat less, exercise more.

--

> > Some of my family members go whole days on little other than water.
> > They don't have eating disorders, they just like to binge and fast.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> i
Ignoramus30622 - 10 Jan 2004 04:54 GMT
> Check out "The Warriot Diet".
>
> During weekdays I only eat between about 5 pm and 9 pm.
>
> That means I fast for 20 hours per day, for those of you who have trouble
> with the math.

I am impressed. I fast for 14 hours a day.

There was an experiment on mice by M.P. Mattson. Instead of being
put on calorie restriction, they were fed on alternating
days. Improvements of their health were just as great as if they were
put on straight CR.

i
JC Der Koenig - 10 Jan 2004 13:15 GMT
> > Check out "The Warriot Diet".
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> days. Improvements of their health were just as great as if they were
> put on straight CR.

I know some people who diet like this, and it seems to work out very well
for them.

The reason I fast during the day is that it's easier when I'm working to
stay busy and not notice any hunger. I work through lunch and don't really
take any breaks all day. As you can imagine, the boss seems to appreciate
this work ethic.
Ignoramus14056 - 10 Jan 2004 13:27 GMT
>> In article <eEJLb.253$0d.135457888@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, JC Der
> Koenig wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> take any breaks all day. As you can imagine, the boss seems to appreciate
> this work ethic.

I also find that having a job, being busy and away from the fridge
helps with dieting in general. I take food to work from home and I
take however much I think is necessary. Helps a lot.

I think, in the final analysis, that I have been relatively successful
with the diet I have been practicing since I started losing weight. So
I will stick to it, with an additional fast on every Thursday.

I did read some warrior diet stuff that I found on google.

i
223/173/180
Ignoramus30622 - 09 Jan 2004 18:00 GMT
>>  I'm sure it does from the research I've heard lately.  While many may
>> argue otherwise, what I really want to know is how many calories I
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Um, there is a quality of life issue here as well. You may live a bit
> longer, but you won't enjoy it.  Starvation is not "better health."

Pat, please do not make such sweeping statements unless you have some
substantial evidence for it. Search medline for "calorie restriction
mattson" and "calorie restriction" and see how many articles discuss
it.

The research on CR has been actively going on for 70 years.

Calorie restriction, defined as feeding animals a diet that has all
requisite nutrients (vitamins, minerals, amino acids) but is 30-50%
deficient in calories (depending on the species), produces dramatic
improvements in health and life expectancy of a large number of
species: yeast, rotifers, spiders, worms, fish, mice, and rats, and
emerging data suggests that it may apply to primates as well.

Improvements in health include increased insulin sensitivity, less
oxidative damage to tissues, much reduced incidence of neoplasms
(cancers and other tumors), reduction in incidence of degenerative
brain disorders such as Alzheimer equivalents, etc.

Quite a few people, myself NOT included, have taken it upon them to
try CR on themselves. CR animals (and people) are always hungry and
somewhat underweight. They are, however, healthier and age more slowly
than they would without CR, or at least that's what the initial
reports suggest.

I consider CR to be an extremely likely way to increase lifespan and
health. I am not yet practicing it because, first, I want to see a
little more proof, and second, because I am not sure if I have the
willpower to do it.

It is very clear, however, that CR is a real concept and not something
to be dismissed as quackery.

It is also very clear that overeating is a major impediment to health
and is to be avoided.

Newsgroup sci.life-extension is dedicated to the discussion of various
life extension methods and it may be worth adding it to this thread.

To the OP: read Dr Roy Walford's _The 120 year diet_ and _beyond 120
year diet_. Walford is one of the researchers in this area.

i
223/174/180
Pat - 09 Jan 2004 22:29 GMT
> > Um, there is a quality of life issue here as well. You may live a bit
> > longer, but you won't enjoy it.  Starvation is not "better health."

> Pat, please do not make such sweeping statements unless you have some
> substantial evidence for it. Search medline for "calorie restriction
> mattson" and "calorie restriction" and see how many articles discuss
> it.

> i

There is a difference between calorie restriction and starvation. I stand by
my words. The original poster wanted to "imitate a starvation diet." Yuck.

Pat in TX
Ignoramus30622 - 09 Jan 2004 23:59 GMT
>> > Um, there is a quality of life issue here as well. You may live a bit
>> > longer, but you won't enjoy it.  Starvation is not "better health."
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Pat in TX

I think that the OP simply did not word the question very well.

I agree that starvation -- meaning almost complete food deprivation --
causes death by definition. But calorie restriction does not.

i
Roger Zoul - 10 Jan 2004 00:36 GMT
:: In article <btna08$9b577$1@ID-194653.news.uni-berlin.de>, Pat wrote:
:::
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
::
:: I agree that starvation -- meaning almost complete food deprivation

Hmmm....I've lost 120 lbs by calorie restriction....I'm also better than
ever, too! :)
ConnieG999 - 09 Jan 2004 18:57 GMT
>Does starvation diet lengthen life span

Some people seem to think so.
http://www.calorierestriction.org/

Connie
*****************************************************
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