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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / January 2004

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New to TKD

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TE - 10 Jan 2004 02:11 GMT
Hey all,

I just started TKD last week...well I think I did.  I just want to make
sure I have my facts straight. I've never done a low carb diet before so
all of this is quite new to me.  Here's TKD as I understand it:

1) Restrict daily calories to 20g-30g a day
2) Get plenty of protein (~1g/lbs of body weight)
3) Take 20-50g carbs before exercising

Am I missing anything or is this really all there is to it?  Please if I
forgot to mention something obvious about the diet, let me know!

Thanks in advance.
JC Der Koenig - 10 Jan 2004 02:15 GMT
I'm not sure that you can get all the calories you need at only 20g - 30g a
day.

Signature

JC

Eat less, exercise more.

--

> Hey all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance.
TE - 10 Jan 2004 02:32 GMT
How many should I be getting?

My current stats are 154 @ 16% BF

I've been eating between 1475-1600/day... plus I have my workouts.

Can you actually stay in ketosis if you are above 30g/day ?

> I'm not sure that you can get all the calories you need at only 20g - 30g a
> day.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
JJ - 10 Jan 2004 02:43 GMT
TE,

I know nothing about TKD.

However, I believe that JC was making a joke.  In your first post you wrote,
mistakenly I believe, "1) Restrict daily calories to 20g-30g a day."  I
think that this should be "carbohydrates" not "calories."  If you are eating
only 20g of food a day, it would be difficult to come up with enough
calories...hence JC's joke.  (If he wasn't joking somebody please explain it
to me.)

That said, if you are eating 1475 to 1600 calories per day, at 154 pounds,
this sounds about right to me.  There are others here who will almost
certainly chime in with their thoughts about calorie levels.

JJ.

> How many should I be getting?
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance.
TE - 10 Jan 2004 11:31 GMT
> TE,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> calories...hence JC's joke.  (If he wasn't joking somebody please explain it
> to me.)

hehe, and thats what I get for a late night post.  Maybe these low carbs
are now affecting my brain =O

Yes, I did mean to say calories and not carbs...

> That said, if you are eating 1475 to 1600 calories per day, at 154
> pounds, this sounds about right to me.  There are others here who will
> almost certainly chime in with their thoughts about calorie levels.
>
> JJ.

At my current routine/diet, what do you think I should expect for a
timeline?  weeks? months?  I'm aiming to get to 10% but 12% will be enough...
JC Der Koenig - 10 Jan 2004 02:45 GMT
I was just playing with your sloppy post.

Restricting your intake to 20g - 30g OF CARBS per day, seems like a good
idea. You'll have to adjust the total calorie numbers a little to make sure
you keep losing fat.

Signature

JC

Eat less, exercise more.

--

> How many should I be getting?
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance.
Steven C \(Doktersteve\) - 10 Jan 2004 05:24 GMT
> How many should I be getting?
>
> My current stats are 154 @ 16% BF
>
> I've been eating between 1475-1600/day... plus I have my workouts.

Sounds about right for your weight.
If you want, use this formula to calculate it (very roughly):

weight X 10 = total calories needed to function with no activity
that number multiplied (x) by:
1.0 if you are not active
1.5 if you are semi active
2.0 if you are extremely active

The first number gives you a basic idea if your BMR or basal metabolic rate.
The second number you get from multiplying by 1.0 - 2.0 gives you the
ammount you would burn with your lifestyle.

Most people overestimate the ammount of activity they have in their
lifestyle though, so be very careful.

> Can you actually stay in ketosis if you are above 30g/day ?

Most definately. Everyone has a different CCL (critical carb level), the
spot where they no longer lose weight, and no longer gain.

> > I'm not sure that you can get all the calories you need at only 20g - 30g a
> > day.

^that is actually very funny! :-D

> > --
> > JC
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance.
Susan - 10 Jan 2004 02:19 GMT
>1) Restrict daily calories to 20g-30g a day

Huh?

Susan
Roger Zoul - 10 Jan 2004 02:23 GMT
:: Hey all,
::
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
::
:: 1) Restrict daily calories to 20g-30g a day

Restrict carbs, not calories. Big difference.  What are your goals?

:: 2) Get plenty of protein (~1g/lbs of body weight)
:: 3) Take 20-50g carbs before exercising

what kind of exercise are you referring to?

:: Am I missing anything or is this really all there is to it?  Please
:: if I forgot to mention something obvious about the diet, let me know!

www.theketogenicdiet.com

http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

:: Thanks in advance.
TE - 10 Jan 2004 11:28 GMT
> :: Hey all,
> ::
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Restrict carbs, not calories. Big difference.  What are your goals?

lol, whoops... yes I ment carbs and not calories

> :: 2) Get plenty of protein (~1g/lbs of body weight)
> :: 3) Take 20-50g carbs before exercising
>
> what kind of exercise are you referring to?

I am performing HST (Hypertrophy-specific training) 3x a week.  Every
workout is followed with 15-20 minutes of HIIT (High intensity interval
training)

> :: Am I missing anything or is this really all there is to it?  Please
> :: if I forgot to mention something obvious about the diet, let me know!
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> :: Thanks in advance.
Roger Zoul - 10 Jan 2004 13:31 GMT
:: On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 21:23:22 -0500, Roger Zoul wrote:
::
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
:: workout is followed with 15-20 minutes of HIIT (High intensity
:: interval training)

Okay...great!  Now, with the TKD, you can do a pre-workout carb load or a
post-workout carb load, or both.  Some believe that doing a post-workout
carb load is better, since the muscles will be in a state that thing want to
suck stuff in.  So taking your carb load after, along with some protein,
might encourage better growth and better recovery.  You could try 25g before
and 25 g after.  Your best bet is to experiment and find what works best for
you.

Oh, it might be better to move your HIIT to the off-days from HST and just
do "light" cardio after your lifting (circulation improves recovery -
removes lactate, etc - also gets blood moving through stubborn fat cells
(which helps get rid of it)).  That should make your HIIT better since you
should be able to do harder intervals.  And watch out, during week two of
each HST microcycle, doing HIIT might wear you out!  You'll definitely find
a need for some extra carbs.

::::: Am I missing anything or is this really all there is to it?
::::: Please if I forgot to mention something obvious about the diet,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
:::
::::: Thanks in advance.
Anglea Woollcombe - 10 Jan 2004 03:57 GMT
what is tkd ?????
> Hey all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance.
Steven C \(Doktersteve\) - 10 Jan 2004 05:31 GMT
> what is tkd ?????

I believe it stands for The Ketogenic Diet.
It is a variation I think, of Atkins, south beach, et al.
TE - 10 Jan 2004 11:24 GMT
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 05:31:59 +0000, Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote:

>> what is tkd ?????
>
> I believe it stands for The Ketogenic Diet.
> It is a variation I think, of Atkins, south beach, et al.

TKD stands for Targeted Ketogenic Diet.  It is similar to CKD in the sense
that you try to stay in ketosis.  However, with TKD you don't have "carb
up" days - instead you take some carbs before a workout.  It helps with
energy levels during the exercise routines...
RRzVRR - 11 Jan 2004 17:48 GMT
> 3) Take 20-50g carbs before exercising
>
> Am I missing anything or is this really all there is to it?  Please if I
> forgot to mention something obvious about the diet, let me know!

I've done TKD on and off for many years.  My experience and opinion is
that it works best for me to take in carbs post WT. I want raised
insulin post training for uptake and for repair.  I often use dextrose
in a protein shake or a dextrose based creatine drink, then protein.
The reason being is that my main concern is recovery.  I'm in my 40's
and recovery becomes a little more difficult as you get older.

But you need to experiment and find what gives you the best progress
in your training while maintaining or dropping some BF.

Signature

Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
 -Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:  http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

TE - 12 Jan 2004 23:18 GMT
>> 3) Take 20-50g carbs before exercising
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> But you need to experiment and find what gives you the best progress
> in your training while maintaining or dropping some BF.

Interesting... I was under the impression that carb loading usually
happend before the workout to provide energy.

dextrose... yeah, I stalked up on Smarties candy (or Rockets as they call
them over seas)  I've heard that taking 5 rolls before is good, but I"m
not sure if this is true and how soon they should be taken.  How many
grams of carbs did you take after and how soon?
Bob M - 13 Jan 2004 01:01 GMT
>>> 3) Take 20-50g carbs before exercising
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> not sure if this is true and how soon they should be taken.  How many
> grams of carbs did you take after and how soon?

I take some before and after.  Dextrose is cheap (you can buy it -- or
maltodextrin -- at a beer brewing place).  Supposedly, carb loading after
a workout causes insulin to force the muscles to take in sugar (but I
wonder how well it works in those of us who are insulin resistant?).  I
take the sugar beforehand because I workout in the morning and my blood
sugar dips too low.

Signature

Bob M in CT remove 'x.' to reply

RRzVRR - 13 Jan 2004 11:06 GMT
> Interesting... I was under the impression that carb loading usually
> happend before the workout to provide energy.

TKD is mostly about having enough glycogen within the muscles to do
anaerobic work.  Taking in pre-workout carbs is to aid in post workout
glyogen reload.  Some get a benefit from having a raised blood glucose
level during a workout, but that dosen't seem to help me.

> dextrose... yeah, I stalked up on Smarties candy (or Rockets as they call
> them over seas)  I've heard that taking 5 rolls before is good, but I"m
> not sure if this is true and how soon they should be taken.  How many
> grams of carbs did you take after and how soon?

Smarties got old very fast.  Dextrose is pretty cheap (I pick mine up
at Indian food markets).  As far as the amount goes, you need to do
some experiementing.  The amount of glycogen used during a given
workout is relative to your ability to lift heavy enough and complete
enough reps to cause a significate use of glycogen.  From Lyle
McDonald's book, "The Ketogenic Diet - A Complete Guide for the Dieter
and Practitioner":  for every 2 sets you'll need around 5 grams.  I
believe those 2 sets should be done working with weight that's at
least 70% of your 1RM or higher.

I'd suggest that you track your training progress, when you see
progress stalling start experiementing with small amounts, increase to
a level that both helps you progress yet doesn't knock you out of
ketosis for long.  Just FYI, it seemed to me that over time I needed
less grams to keep up progress than when I started.

Signature

Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
 -Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:  http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

 
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