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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / January 2004

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Road to Success or Failure?

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Mike - 12 Jan 2004 18:01 GMT
So, I've been around for a few years now and haven't been successful.
My approach has always been that I have to be able to live with my WOL
so I do a few things differently.

I try to drink as much water as possible each day (whether that is 6
oz, or 128 oz),
I try to make good eating choices, lots of vegetables, lots of meat,
I avoid all easily recognized carbs (bread, potatoes, rice),
I avoid putting sugar in or on things (coffee or cooking),
I have begun weighing myself every day again and putting this into a
spreadsheet,
I will have the occassional drink of rye and diet coke/pepsi, and the
occassional beer,

However,
I don't count carbs very closely.  I mean I had chicken today at lunch
and it had a BBQ sauce on it.  I know this sauce has sugar and carbs
but I have no idea how many.
I don't check everything that I eat and calculate how may carbs.
There is no way I could tell you if I ate 20g or 100g of carbs
yesterday and I have no intention of changing this.
I don't take vitamins, I don't have anything against them, I just
haven't taken any
I don't exercise regularly.  I know this is terrible but that's the
truth,

So, am I on the road to success or failure? Based on my results and
what I currently weigh I don't think this diet is as easy as saying:
no carbs, no sugar like I have been doing.  What do you do to be
successful in the long run?  Counting everything is not going to
happen, exercising daily is not going to happen (although I do plan on
increasing the exercise).

Anyway, still struggling along.

Mike
238/234/170 (since Jan 1st, 2004) <-- first look into Atkins Feb 2002)
Ignoramus26983 - 12 Jan 2004 18:22 GMT
> So, I've been around for a few years now and haven't been successful.
> My approach has always been that I have to be able to live with my WOL
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> happen, exercising daily is not going to happen (although I do plan on
> increasing the exercise).

> 238/234/170 (since Jan 1st, 2004) <-- first look into Atkins Feb 2002)

You are on the road to failure.

If you don't count carbs, you have to count calories, it's that
simple. Try eating low[er] carb and counting calories. You are doing
some things right though, like not eating junk etc.

Also, take up some exercise...

Your repeated attempts to lose weight aren't doing you any good, you
need to get your act together to lose weight for once.

All three components of successful weight loss -- eating right, eating
less, and exercising -- should go together.

i
marli - 12 Jan 2004 20:08 GMT
Well your on your way to failure
you really need to go back on induction to kick start your weight lost and stay away from sugar and watch those carbs!!!!!!!
i've read that the avg. lo carber can lose on 50 carbs a day
don't really know just start  lo carb atkins all over again
and do it right.

216/196/160
Dave Dumanis - 12 Jan 2004 23:03 GMT
There's a ton of sugar in BBQ sauce and, if you're like most people
here, it will give you cravings you wouldn't otherwise have--causing
you to eat much more chicken than you otherwise would. Not to mention
biscuits and gravy, coleslaw (yes, there is a TON of sugar in most
coleslaw), potato salad, etc.

Get hold of a carb counting chart and study it carefully.  Or ask
yourself how much you really want to lose that weight.

Don't be afraid of a little homework. Food manufacturers are using all
their brainpower to get us to buy sugar-filled crap. We need to use
our brains to fight back.

Dave

> Well your on your way to failure
>  you really need to go back on induction to kick start your weight lost and stay away from sugar and watch those carbs!!!!!!!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> 216/196/160
Penguin - 12 Jan 2004 20:11 GMT
> So, I've been around for a few years now and haven't been successful. My
> approach has always been that I have to be able to live with my WOL so I
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Mike
> 238/234/170 (since Jan 1st, 2004) <-- first look into Atkins Feb 2002)

Sad fact is you either abide by the rules of the Low Carb way or you don't
(can't be half-pregnant). I know if there is some food on the table I am
unsure about, I pass. It's an individual's personal decision.
Everybody is different so if it's not for you then so be it. Maybe you
should just decrease caloric intake?

-Cheers
Dawn Taylor - 12 Jan 2004 20:12 GMT
>So, am I on the road to success or failure? Based on my results and
>what I currently weigh I don't think this diet is as easy as saying:
>no carbs, no sugar like I have been doing.  What do you do to be
>successful in the long run?  Counting everything is not going to
>happen, exercising daily is not going to happen (although I do plan on
>increasing the exercise).

It depends on what your goal is. It looks from your stats like you
want to lose weight. So, perhaps, a weight-loss plan is a good idea.
You're not currently on a weight-loss plan, despite changing your
eating habits -- you aren't on a "plan" of any kind if you aren't
regulating what you eat.

Now, if you don't really care about losing weight, then you've made
some terrific changes for better overall health. You'll undoubtedly
see improvement in how you feel. But to lose weight successfully,
you'll need to keep track of something. If you're insulin-resistant,
you should keep track of your carb count, even if you do it loosely.
If you aren't IR, then you may do well to restrict calories -- and to
so that, you've gotta know what you're putting in your mouth.

Dawn
DoughBoy - 12 Jan 2004 21:30 GMT
Hey Mike,

I don't want to sound harsh, condescending, or troll-like but here it goes:

You're not on the road to anywhere.  You're on the shoulder; stuck in a
ditch; spinning your wheels and going nowhere.  The good thing is that you
have plenty of people that ARE on the road that see you and are willing to
help, but YOU need to accept the help.

After reading your post, I get the feeling that you just don't really care.
If you did, you would be counting every carb, getting out there excercising,
taking your vitamins, and drinking all the water you need.

If you want this to work, you need to put some energy into making it work.
Nobody can do that for you.

I hope to see you on the road to success in the near future.

-Dough
Mike - 12 Jan 2004 22:12 GMT
Definitely interesting points and I very rarely consider anyone a
troll.

I'm looking for a WOL that will reduce my weight to the 170 to 180
range.  With that said however, I don't ever see myself sitting down
with a spreadsheet every day, and entering every tidbit of food that
I've eaten (www.fitday.com) for the rest of my life.  In my opinion,
this isn't normal :)  Of course having a BMI over 35 isn't normal
either.  I'll enter basic info into the spreadsheet I use
www.geocities.com/weightloss99a/ and get a rough idea of how many
calories and carbs I've consumed.

Do I care, good question.  The pain in my chest I got last month
scared the crap out of me and I definitely care about that.  I want to
go down the road for weight loss and improved fitness.  I'll track
this, I'll track that, but when a social engagement comes up, I won't
say, I can't have a drink b/c I'm on low-carb. I'll make fairly smart
choices on my drink (rum/coke etc).  If I'm at a restaurant I'll
choose fairly wisely, ribs, steak etc.  However if their restaurants
ribs have BBQ sauce on them, I'm still going to eat them.  

I'm really trying to develop a plan that I can follow for the next 50
years.  Eating a slice of pizza in that timeframe will happen again.
Having a beer will happen again.  If I choose to eat LC for 80% of the
time, hopefully that will be enough to compensate for the 20% that I'm
high-carbing like I have the first 32 years of my life).

Of course, adding some exercise will be a step in the right direction.
I currently play hockey once a week, and in the summer I golf at least
once a week.  That stationary bike in my living room has got to get
more use.  I've never really known if vitamins are important or not.
Since you don't really see their results, it seems like $50 down the
drain (quite literally).  If an expert says vitamins are key, I'll
take them daily like I did the first time I tried Atkins.

Anyway, developing a WOL is something I want to do.  I also am being
realistic about what I'm willing to do and not do.

Mike
238/234/170

>Hey Mike,
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>-Dough
Ignoramus26983 - 12 Jan 2004 23:47 GMT
> Definitely interesting points and I very rarely consider anyone a
> troll.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> www.geocities.com/weightloss99a/ and get a rough idea of how many
> calories and carbs I've consumed.

I agree that it is a pain to enter stuff into fitday. I do not do it,
myself, in fact I lost 47 lbs without even knowing how many calories I
was eating. But I knew I ate less than my maintenance amount since I
was losing weight.

> Do I care, good question.  The pain in my chest I got last month
> scared the crap out of me and I definitely care about that.  I want to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> choose fairly wisely, ribs, steak etc.  However if their restaurants
> ribs have BBQ sauce on them, I'm still going to eat them.  

Well, it's your life.

> I'm really trying to develop a plan that I can follow for the next 50
> years.  Eating a slice of pizza in that timeframe will happen again.
> Having a beer will happen again.  If I choose to eat LC for 80% of the
> time, hopefully that will be enough to compensate for the 20% that I'm
> high-carbing like I have the first 32 years of my life).

No, it won;t. The point of low carbing is that you can eat unlimited
fat and protein because you are limiting carbs. Limiting carbs reduces
your appetite and how much your body can use. If you overdo carbs,
then this no longer holds. You would need, then, to count calories, if
you want to not get fat.

> Of course, adding some exercise will be a step in the right direction.
> I currently play hockey once a week, and in the summer I golf at least
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> drain (quite literally).  If an expert says vitamins are key, I'll
> take them daily like I did the first time I tried Atkins.

Just buy the cheap vitamins...

i

> Anyway, developing a WOL is something I want to do.  I also am being
> realistic about what I'm willing to do and not do.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>
>>-Dough
Mike - 13 Jan 2004 01:06 GMT
>I agree that it is a pain to enter stuff into fitday. I do not do it,
>myself, in fact I lost 47 lbs without even knowing how many calories I
>was eating. But I knew I ate less than my maintenance amount since I
>was losing weight.

47 pounds is amazing.  How long did it take?  Like I mentioned before,
I have a spreadsheet that I use.  On the second page is where I enter
what I've ate thru the day for Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner, Snacks,
Beverages and Exercise.  I don't actually calculate anything, I get a
rough idea.  Sausages (200 cal  & 2 carb each), Large Coffee with
Cream (2 carb each), etc.

>No, it won;t. The point of low carbing is that you can eat unlimited
>fat and protein because you are limiting carbs. Limiting carbs reduces
>your appetite and how much your body can use. If you overdo carbs,
>then this no longer holds. You would need, then, to count calories, if
>you want to not get fat.

OK interesting.  You learn something new all the time.  So, if I
understand you correctly, if I go out have four beer and a slice of
pizza, the next day when I go back to this WOE, I'll have stimulated
my hunger so I'll eat more then LC stuff then I would have.  Then I'll
eat more calories for several days.  If that's what your saying, I
never thought of that.  I always figured just going back to this WOE
would suffice.

>Just buy the cheap vitamins...

OK
Ignoramus26983 - 13 Jan 2004 03:44 GMT
>>I agree that it is a pain to enter stuff into fitday. I do not do it,
>>myself, in fact I lost 47 lbs without even knowing how many calories I
>>was eating. But I knew I ate less than my maintenance amount since I
>>was losing weight.
>>
> 47 pounds is amazing.  How long did it take?

100 days. I am not kidding. It just happened to be 100 days, not that
I was planning for it to take 100 days.

> Like I mentioned before, I have a spreadsheet that I use.  On the
> second page is where I enter what I've ate thru the day for
> Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner, Snacks, Beverages and Exercise.  I don't
> actually calculate anything, I get a rough idea.  Sausages (200 cal
> & 2 carb each), Large Coffee with Cream (2 carb each), etc.

Whatever works. I was just eating the same quantity of food every
day. I knew it worked because I was losing weight and feeling okay, so
I figured, why count calories. At the end of it all, I did count
calories once, it was, I think, 1800 or 1900 calories. Kind of like a
shortcut to avoid complex and imprecise calculations.

>>No, it won;t. The point of low carbing is that you can eat unlimited
>>fat and protein because you are limiting carbs. Limiting carbs reduces
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> pizza, the next day when I go back to this WOE, I'll have stimulated
> my hunger so I'll eat more then LC stuff then I would have.

Right, that's my theory.

> Then I'll
> eat more calories for several days.  If that's what your saying, I
> never thought of that.  I always figured just going back to this WOE
> would suffice.

It would if you don't go back for pizza. If you eat pizza regularly,
you need to count calories, say no more than X calories per week. But
remember, low carb supposedly reduces cravings and appetite for some
people, so allowing yourself pizza etc will require MORE willpower
from you. Since you already seem to have problems here, maybe it's
better to never cheat.

>>Just buy the cheap vitamins...
>>
> OK

they are all the same, bullshit notwithstanding...

i
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 13 Jan 2004 01:56 GMT
> The point of low carbing is that you can eat unlimited fat and protein
> because you are limiting carbs.

low carb is not a license to eat unlimited calories.  you do need to
limit fat and protein in that respect.
JC Der Koenig - 13 Jan 2004 02:43 GMT
> > The point of low carbing is that you can eat unlimited fat and protein
> > because you are limiting carbs.
>
> low carb is not a license to eat unlimited calories.  you do need to
> limit fat and protein in that respect.

If you're not trying to lose weight though, low carb can sure allow you to
get really full without gaining weight.

At least that's how it works for me. If I start gorging on carbs, I'll bloat
up in double-quick time.
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 13 Jan 2004 15:35 GMT
> > > The point of low carbing is that you can eat unlimited fat and protein
> > > because you are limiting carbs.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> If you're not trying to lose weight though, low carb can sure allow you to
> get really full without gaining weight.

it depends.  i can easily overeat low carb food.  and if i overeat, i
gain weight.  

> At least that's how it works for me. If I start gorging on carbs, I'll bloat
> up in double-quick time.

i don't consider bloat to be true weight gain.  it's a temporary
condition, at least for me.  but yeah, i do experience it if i eat too
much sugar &/or starch.
Ignoramus26983 - 13 Jan 2004 03:46 GMT
>> The point of low carbing is that you can eat unlimited fat and protein
>> because you are limiting carbs.
>
> low carb is not a license to eat unlimited calories.  you do need to
> limit fat and protein in that respect.  

unlimited means, eat until full. supposedly, according to Dr. Atkins,
this means eating to lose weight, given a low enough level of carbs.

I have hard times believing that it would work for me, so I just
lowered my carbs to get better appetite control, and lost weight by
limiting calories (even though I did not count them, I limited
quantity of food).

i
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 13 Jan 2004 15:35 GMT
> >> The point of low carbing is that you can eat unlimited fat and protein
> >> because you are limiting carbs.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> unlimited means, eat until full.

unlimited means "without limit."  "until full" indicates that there is a
limit.  

> supposedly, according to Dr. Atkins, this means eating to lose weight,
> given a low enough level of carbs.

do you believe everything you read?

> I have hard times believing that it would work for me, so I just
> lowered my carbs to get better appetite control, and lost weight by
> limiting calories (even though I did not count them, I limited
> quantity of food).

counting only carbs did not work for me.  i was easily taking in over
3000 calories a day while eating very low carb; i can overeat on steak
and almonds just as effectively as i overate on toast and poptarts.  i
do count calories, and i do aim for less 100g of carb a day.
Ignoramus14640 - 13 Jan 2004 15:45 GMT
>> >> The point of low carbing is that you can eat unlimited fat and protein
>> >> because you are limiting carbs.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> unlimited means "without limit."  "until full" indicates that there is a
> limit.  

I think that it's a pointless semantic argument.

We more or less agree, actually. We both agree that low carb generally
means "eat non-carb stuff until full".

>> supposedly, according to Dr. Atkins, this means eating to lose weight,
>> given a low enough level of carbs.
>
> do you believe everything you read?

no. That's why I said "supposedly".

>> I have hard times believing that it would work for me, so I just
>> lowered my carbs to get better appetite control, and lost weight by
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> poptarts.  i do count calories, and i do aim for less 100g of carb a
> day.

Same here, more or less. I could overeat shoe leather. I need to watch
how much food I put in my mouth, period. Or else I regain weight quickly.

Lowering carbs and dropping junk simply helps with appetite control
for me.

i
DoughBoy - 13 Jan 2004 03:49 GMT
Hey Mike,

I'm glad you weren't offended by what I said, but I felt I needed to say it.
I wish I would have had someone say something like that to me a few years
ago.  I'll give you a quick rundown of my story:

Back in '98 I was really fat.  316, 6' tall.  I had half-assed tried to lose
the weight dozens of different ways and times and I lost a few pounds here
and there, but never anything great... and I always put more back on.  Well,
in the early summer, one day I woke up and decided that I had enough.  I
read 'the book'(Atkins' New Diet Revolution) and went at it with every ounce
of my being.  I ended up losing 108 (one hundred and eight) pounds over the
course of several months.  Early in 1999, I had increased my workouts.  I
was leg pressing every 45pound plate in my gym for 12 reps on my final set,
I was working out with the 100 pound dumbbells for incline and flat bench,
doing hundreds of pushups and situps everyday, running/biking and playing
racquetball.  I had people coming up to me that I hadn't seen since
HighSchool telling me how awesome I looked.  Then I hit rock bottom.
Personal issues happened.  I got really depressed and went on a
few-year-long bender of eating everything that could fit into my mouth.

Now here I am sitting in front of a computer, 360 pounds, 12 days into my
induction, and feeling great with it.  I'm 24 years old and I can't run up a
flight of steps without feeling like I'm going to die.  I like to go out,
drink, and eat with my friends.  Its tough to watch my carbs, but I've
decided that I want to lose the weight.  I'm a professional in my field and
I know the difficulties of leading a 'real life' and trying to work in a
low-carb diet into a 9-5 with the stresses of finding a house, getting my
job done, getting my side projects done, and having a social life.

From my past exposure to this way of eating, I know what foods I can eat and
how the plan works.  It has become second nature to me again.  If I go out
to eat, I'll eat ribs... dry (BBQ on the side for a little smear here and
there for taste).  I don't drink.  I don't eat carbs.  Next Monday, I'm
starting back at the gym.  Sitting on the bike for a half hour.

Why did I tell you this?  Inspiration.  I hate to consider myself weak of
mind, but for the last 5 years my mind was weak.  I made excuses about this
and that and had carbs here and there.  That became, "I've already eaten
100g of carbs... a few beers won't hurt me any more. I'll start tomorrow."
That became, I'll start on Monday.  That became, "I'll start on the 1st of
the Month".  They add up.

My advice to you is to hunker down.  Look at yourself in the mirror and ask
yourself how bad you really want it.  If that means giving up rum and cokes,
BBQ ribs, etc. then so be it.  You'll thank yourself for it later.

Get yourself a few copies of the books.  Keep them in your car, work, and at
home.  Get yourself a couple copies of the Nutritional guides.  Keep one at
home and one in your car.  If you have questions on what you can eat... use
the guides.  Get yourself through those tough 2 weeks of induction and stick
with it.  Throwing yourself out of LC and back into carb-cravings is a
nightmare.

I like to consider myself a rationalist.  I think about life in terms of
opportunity cost.  Last night, when my mother was going out for pizza and
sundaes(which is tough, because my father owns the pizzeria), I wanted
it...but I thought about the cost of eating one versus the cost of NOT
eating it.  Throwing my 12 hard days getting into induction down the toilet.
I had some steak and 2 liters of zero-carb flavored water instead.

Once you get into the stage of continued weight loss, you can bring your
carbs up to a point where you can live 'realistically' and eat certain
things.  It isn't hard to do if you know how to do it.  I don't use
spreadsheets, websites, etc. to track my progress.  Its nice for people to
see and to be able to show people, but I *KNOW* that if I do the right
things, it will happen.

I see a lot of the same feelings that I have/had in your post, and I
Empathize with you.  I know how ya feel.  I've been there, I AM there, and I
make those decisions every day. You have to make the decision for yourself.

I hope you(and anyone else reading) can take a little bit away from the
problems that I've had and apply it.  I know it sounds pompous, but that's
the way I feel.  Stay strong and make good decisions.  You can do it.

Be good.

-Dough
Mike - 13 Jan 2004 16:33 GMT
Thank you for detaiing your experience.  

The approach I am trying to develop is to help me not fall into the
weight gain that you experienced when I <go off> the diet.  I don't
want this to be a diet but just the way I eat for the rest of my life.
I really really need and want to lose the extra weight.  I called
2004, the year of weight loss on New Years and I'm determined to do
it.  I will however try to find a way that I can maintain this for the
rest of my life.  

I know that I'm going to have another slice of pizza in my life, I
know that I'm going to have a few beers out with the guys.  Those
things however will be the minority of the time while I stick to
low-carb the majority.

I think one thing I've learned from the thread is the importance of
Calorie Counting.  I'm not going to check every food including the
recipe with the contents, but I'll estimate the number of calories I'm
consuming and try to stay between 8-10 times.

I also realize that I need to increase my fitness level.  FYI, I do
work out (occassionally), can bench press my weight, and do play
hockey and golf.  That's no where near as fit as you are/were but its
a start.

One thing I honestly feel is that the Atkins does ingrain some bad
eating habits into you.  So for example, when I went off Atkins, I
would have eggs, bacon, and home fries at breakfast.  I would then eat
things like the fast food Chinese for lunch and then a good dinner of
sausages, fries, ice cream etc.  So, I was eating both high fat (with
a huge calorie count) as well as carbs.  No wonder I gained back to my
old weight plus 4 pounds.  Again, it looks like calorie counting is a
must for me.

Road to success or Road to Failure?  I know that I'm on the road to
success in the long run even though I'm not getting the initial 10lb
loss that I did the last time.  I'm determined to lose it over 2004
and be able to maintain the loss for the rest of my life.  A pound a
week for the next 70 weeks is all I ask for :)

Mike
238/235/170 (gained a damn pound yesterday somehow)
Ignoramus14640 - 13 Jan 2004 17:07 GMT
I have to say with some amazement, that I completely agree with you on
all counts of what you said.

i

> Thank you for detaiing your experience.  
>
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> Mike
> 238/235/170 (gained a damn pound yesterday somehow)
Mike - 13 Jan 2004 17:40 GMT
I laughed out loud in complete shock that anyone agreed with me :)

Mike

Now off to losing weight and eating my delicious salad.

>I have to say with some amazement, that I completely agree with you on
>all counts of what you said.
>
>i
Luna - 13 Jan 2004 18:02 GMT
Hey, Mike, I understand your situation, I really do.  I am not really great
at tracking my intake (I'm also not good at keeping cd's in the right
boxes, using a daily journal after the first few weeks, or keeping track of
how much money I spend)  I hate writing down everything I eat.  But, I'm
telling you, if you do it obsessively for a few weeks, including measuring
everything, you will improve your ability to eyeball stuff and estimate
more accurately.  

I also fear what will happen to me when I get to the maintenance phase.  I
don't believe you should ever "go off" the diet.  If you're overweight then
you can not go back to the way you ate before losing weight and not gain it
all back.  This does not mean you can _never_ have pizza again.  Why not
try this?  During your weight loss journey, plan a once a month cheat meal.  
(I recommend just one meal for a cheat, not the whole day, because if I
cheat a whole day I feel awful, but you may be different.)  And then, when
you get to goal, for your day-to-day menu, add back in healthy carbs that
don't trigger you to overeat.  For me, whole grain bread, wild rice, and
most fruits do not trigger cravings.  For you it may be different foods.  
And then, maybe you can have a cheat day more often, maybe once a week,
once every two weeks, whatever works for you, where you can eat some less
healthy carbs.  If you find cravings coming back or weight coming back on,
then buckle down and limit your portions more on those foods, or go back to
stricter low-carb until the cravings go away.

Life after weight loss is a constant balancing act.  You have to pay
attention to what you eat and how it affects you for the rest of your life.  
There's more leeway, which makes it easier and harder.  Easier in that you
get to eat more of the foods you like, harder in that it can be a slippery
slope back to fatness.

That's where regular exercise can help quite a bit.  Like I said before, it
can be a buffer for the times when you "mess up."   Regular exercise,
including weight-training, means you will build muscle mass and make your
body more efficient and able to handle more food without gaining. It also
means that if you eat a bit too much one day, you can burn it off the next.  
Exercise doesn't have to suck.  If you get involved in some kind of sport
then you're burning calories while having fun, and you can start thinking
of sessions at the gym as "training" for your sport, so the exercise will
have more value for you.  Little mental tricks like that are what keep me
going.  I work out at Curves, which is for women only and is circuit
training (weight machines interspersed with jogging platforms) and there is
very little about the workout itself that I find fun.  So I made friends
with the women I work with, I chat with them while working out, I play
little games with myself like counting how many reps I can do and trying to
beat my record, stuff like that. You will find something that works for
you, there are as many different ways to get healthy as there are people, I
believe. You'll find yours if you are open to trying new ways of eating,
living, thinking, and being.  If one way doesn't work, don't say to
yourself "Oh well, guess I can't lose weight."  Just say "Ok, that didn't
fit who I am, I'll try something else."

Signature

Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Ignoramus14640 - 13 Jan 2004 18:32 GMT
> I also fear what will happen to me when I get to the maintenance
> phase.  I don't believe you should ever "go off" the diet.  If

Right. I had the same concerns. My solution was simple: watch eth
scale every day, eat less when the scale goes up, eat more if I get
too think relative to where I should be. Works great.

i
miss_jaime - 14 Jan 2004 12:38 GMT
>  If you're overweight then
>you can not go back to the way you ate before losing weight and not gain it
>all back.  This does not mean you can _never_ have pizza again.

One thing I have learned since starting Atkins is that if I do cheat I
am quite satisfied with a slice or two of pizza instead of the 6 or 7
slices I used to eat before low carbing.

My eating is much more in control portion wise then it has ever been
and I fully believe that is the reason why I never regained my weight
I had lost.

*But* I *do* have to get off my fat a.s and get moving again.  :-)
miss_jaime - 14 Jan 2004 12:34 GMT
>  I will however try to find a way that I can maintain this for the
>rest of my life.  

I am presently struggling with this now.

>I know that I'm going to have another slice of pizza in my life, I
>know that I'm going to have a few beers out with the guys.  Those
>things however will be the minority of the time while I stick to
>low-carb the majority.

I agree but I think in order to get to goal weight you need to avoid
these things for a while until you get to mainteneance.

Easier said then done..I know. I am struggling with it myself
because I still have 200 pounds to lose.

>I also realize that I need to increase my fitness level.  FYI, I do
>work out (occassionally), can bench press my weight, and do play
>hockey and golf.  That's no where near as fit as you are/were but its
>a start.

An excelllent start!!  :-)

>One thing I honestly feel is that the Atkins does ingrain some bad
>eating habits into you.  So for example, when I went off Atkins, I
>would have eggs, bacon, and home fries at breakfast.  I would then eat
>things like the fast food Chinese for lunch and then a good dinner of
>sausages, fries, ice cream etc.  So, I was eating both high fat (with
>a huge calorie count) as well as carbs.

I do the *same* thing so you are not alone.

>  No wonder I gained back to my
>old weight plus 4 pounds.  Again, it looks like calorie counting is a
>must for me.

What works for me on Atkins is keeping my portion sizes small.
At least it did when I lost my first 45 pounds without regaining any
of that back.

>Mike
>238/235/170 (gained a damn pound yesterday somehow)

How is your salt intake. Too much can cause weight gain, even in guys.
Mike - 14 Jan 2004 22:25 GMT
>>I know that I'm going to have another slice of pizza in my life, I
>>know that I'm going to have a few beers out with the guys.  Those
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>I agree but I think in order to get to goal weight you need to avoid
>these things for a while until you get to mainteneance.

Until I hit goal weight?  Come on, I need to lose 70 pounds, at a rate
of 1.5 lbs/week (which is quite ambitious I might add), that's still
47 weeks.  In the next year, I will be at social events where I have a
drink, I will not have a low-carb option on certain evenings when
eating at a friends place, etc.  I'm not going to be unrealistic,
however I know that I have to do this at least 90% of the time.

>>I also realize that I need to increase my fitness level.  FYI, I do
>>work out (occassionally), can bench press my weight, and do play
>>hockey and golf.  That's no where near as fit as you are/were but its
>>a start.
>
>An excelllent start!!  :-)

I have to put fitness into a calendar and start doing it immediately.
Funny, my two New Year resolutions where to stop procrastinating and
lose weight.  

I haven't been very successful at either yet :(

Mike
jpatti - 15 Jan 2004 15:49 GMT
> Until I hit goal weight?  Come on, I need to lose 70 pounds, at a rate
> of 1.5 lbs/week (which is quite ambitious I might add), that's still
> 47 weeks.  In the next year, I will be at social events where I have a
> drink, I will not have a low-carb option on certain evenings when
> eating at a friends place, etc.  I'm not going to be unrealistic,
> however I know that I have to do this at least 90% of the time.

My plan is to cheat at one meal once a month.  There's good reasons to
do so, in terms of it actually *helping* your weight loss.

But largely, it is for the psychological effect.  I can not eat hash
browns today much easier if I know I can have them later.

I plan to be on low-carb for about a year also (probably six months on
phase 1 and six on phase 2 of PP).  Knowing I can "play" a little on
birthdays, social events, holidays and such makes it much more
realistic.

But I want to do these "cheats" at pre-planned times... that way it
won't be cheating.  I have nothing much in Jan to cheat for, so will
probably just choose Jan 31st for my cheat meal.  My birthday is in
February, so I'll have a cheat meal then.

I am also trying to think in terms of non-food rewards also.  Things
that can "feel" like comfort foods without being food.  The Y I go to
has a massage therapist and I think I will reward myself with that
periodically.  I need to find more of these "non-food" rewards to add
to my life.
miss_jaime - 16 Jan 2004 10:21 GMT
>I have to put fitness into a calendar and start doing it immediately.
>Funny, my two New Year resolutions where to stop procrastinating and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Mike

In time. Good luck to you Mike.
Saffire - 13 Jan 2004 04:36 GMT
> I'm really trying to develop a plan that I can follow for the next 50
> years.  Eating a slice of pizza in that timeframe will happen again.
> Having a beer will happen again.  If I choose to eat LC for 80% of the
> time, hopefully that will be enough to compensate for the 20% that I'm
> high-carbing like I have the first 32 years of my life).

You want to change the way you eat to be more healthy, lose weight and hopefully
not gain any MORE weight.  You might want to consider being a little more strict
in the short term in order to establish new habits AND lose weight.  Once you
reach your goal, you can go on maintenance and not be as strict, but still have
new, healthy habits.  

By going low-carb, you will deplete the emergency glycogen stores in your liver.  
Once those emergency stores are used up, your body will turn to burning FAT for
fuel instead of glycogen.  Generally, cravings for carbs will subside
DRAMATICALLY once those glycogen stores are used up.  The body becomes used to
using fat (dietary and body) for fuel.  By eating higher carb, the glycogen
stores start filling up again and not only do you have to start over in order to
deplete them again, but your body starts getting used to burning glycogen again
and urges you to continue to provide this sugary fuel by making you crave more.  
Once the glycogen store in the liver is filled, most excess carbs (and fat) that
isn't excreted will be stored as FAT.  Understanding the process things makes it
easier to make wise decisions.  

This WOE works well for most people, compared to other diets, because you can eat
more food and more SATISFYING food (i.e., fat).  The cravings subside
substantially and you feel full longer, so you end up taking in fewer calories
and NOT feeling particularly deprived.  Most people also find that many of their
health problems also subside and/or completely go away, which is great incentive
to stay on-plan.  

People DO have days where they go off-plan occasionally and even plan on it.  
However, by being vigilent MOST of the time, they still lose weight.  If they
fall HARD off the wagon, they can go back to induction only long enough to
deplete the glycogen stores again, then move back to ongoing weight loss levels.  

By NOT keeping track of your carb intake and allowing yourself to keep eating
whatever is around because it's easier, you are, at best, not going to lose much,
if any, weight and, at worst, gain.  If you want to do low-carb, you need to
commit to it because by increasing the fat intake but NOT keeping the carbs down,
you WILL gain weight.  

You can change your habits and be healthier, but if you want to actually LOSE
weight along with being healthier, you need to either do low-carb according to a
plan or try another way of eating.  

Signature

Saffire
205/176/125
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Luna - 13 Jan 2004 06:12 GMT
> Definitely interesting points and I very rarely consider anyone a
> troll.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I've eaten (www.fitday.com) for the rest of my life.  In my opinion,
> this isn't normal :)

Lemme stop you right there for a sec.  Just do fitday for a couple of
weeks.  Sometimes you'll be surprised at how high your carbs were,
sometimes you'll be surprised at how low they were.  If you do it for a few
weeks, I think that's long enough to see what your typical eating is like,
and you'll get the gist of how many carbs are in stuff, and then you'll be
able to wing it a lot better.  I'm winging it myself, I just cut out
obviously carby things without counting specific numbers of carbs or
following the Atkins regimen of induction and upping carbs afterwards, and
I'm losing.

Signature

Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

SunNoM_un - 12 Jan 2004 22:06 GMT
>So, am I on the road to success or failure? Based on my results and
>what I currently weigh I don't think this diet is as easy as saying:
>no carbs, no sugar like I have been doing.  What do you do to be
>successful in the long run?  Counting everything is not going to
>happen, exercising daily is not going to happen (although I do plan on
>increasing the exercise).

Low carb diets, practically all diets that do not focus on portion
control, that are commercial diets will fail you, and you on them, 95
out of 100 times inn two years.

Here's one that won't.

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

It is free, not-for-profit and a free cardiologist to consult you
comes along with the package.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap010301.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
Phil Scott - 13 Jan 2004 07:17 GMT
> >So, am I on the road to success or failure? Based on my results and
> >what I currently weigh I don't think this diet is as easy as saying:
> >no carbs, no sugar like I have been doing.  What do you do to be
> >successful in the long run?  Counting everything is not going to
> >happen, exercising daily is not going to happen (although I do plan on
> >increasing the exercise).

I always *hated exercise.  But now I love it.   I did Golds Gym and work out
on the machines and use comforably light weights...that makes me feel real
good. You have to skip a day so the muscle can build, I miss the days off
and cant wait for a work out day.... not a bad deal.   Its working too hard
and not having fun that turns a person off to excercise.

Phil Scott

> Low carb diets, practically all diets that do not focus on portion
> control, that are commercial diets will fail you, and you on them, 95
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap010301.html
> Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
Harold Groot - 14 Jan 2004 02:45 GMT
>I always *hated exercise.  But now I love it.   I did Golds Gym and work out
>on the machines and use comforably light weights...that makes me feel real
>good. You have to skip a day so the muscle can build, I miss the days off
>and cant wait for a work out day.... not a bad deal.   Its working too hard
>and not having fun that turns a person off to excercise.

If you enjoy the workouts, one possibility is to simply alternate days
for which sets of muscles you work out.  For example, work on the legs
and stomach MWF and work on the arms and chest/back TThSa, that sort
of thing.  The muscles get their rebuilding day while you are in the
gym every day.
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 12 Jan 2004 22:29 GMT
> So, am I on the road to success or failure?

failure.  

regardless of what you eat, you should be tracking your food intake at
least on a semi-regular basis.  how can you expect to be successful if
you're not going to take responsibility for knowing what you're eating?

you don't have to exercise every day, but if you are able to exercise
then you should do so as often as is feasible.  

butch up.  take responsibility.  move forward.

or stay fat.  it's up to you.
miss_jaime - 14 Jan 2004 12:29 GMT
>  What do you do to be
>successful in the long run?  Counting everything is not going to
>happen, exercising daily is not going to happen (although I do plan on
>increasing the exercise).

I'm not one to talk because I have been off plan for a while but from
what I have read here from those who have been *very* sucessful at it
*that* is what you have to do to make it work.

Good luck on increasing the exercise.  That is my New Year's
resolution for 2004.
 
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