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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / January 2004Atkins Induction - Bacon (Nitrates)
It's hard to find packs of nitrate free bacon here in the UK (at least I've not seen them). Would eating bacon that contained 11% nitrates and zero carbs be that bad during induction? Also, I have some prepacked smoked mackerel & packed fresh smoked haddock - are these OK? The packaging seems devoid of all nutrition info. > It's hard to find packs of nitrate free bacon here in the UK (at least I've > not seen them). Would eating bacon that contained 11% nitrates and zero > carbs be that bad during induction? You can soak the bacon in water for a little while, before eating. Then add salt again. Your concern is valid. i > Also, I have some prepacked smoked mackerel & packed fresh smoked haddock - > are these OK? The packaging seems devoid of all nutrition info. "Ignoramus14640" <ignoramus14640@NOSPAM.14640.invalid> wrote..... > > not seen them). Would eating bacon that contained 11% nitrates and zero > > carbs be that bad during induction? > You can soak the bacon in water for a little while, before eating. soak before or after cooking? how long? would that remove all nitrates? Soak it before you cook it.. (after... EEEWWWWW LOL) although as stated in another note, don't overcook and it's ok too. Teeb > "Ignoramus14640" <ignoramus14640@NOSPAM.14640.invalid> wrote..... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > soak before or after cooking? how long? would that remove all nitrates? > You can soak the bacon in water for a little while, before eating. Soaking can't be relied on to completely remove nitrates/nitrites. > Your concern is valid. Definetely.  SignatureReg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com || You can soak the bacon in water for a little while, before eating. | [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | | Definetely. Definitely not. Please add IMHO to speculative opinions. Here go the scaremongers again. If you were a rat and ate 5 times your body weight in bacon every day for twenty years, you might have a higher than normal chance of getting cancer. Same thing they used to say about saccharine. I challenge you to name *one* single person who got cancer from eating bacon. Just one, out of the millions of people who eat bacon every day. Or even just one that is cited by a scientific study as having contracted cancer from nitrites in bacon. Just one. Oh, you can't? I rest my case. And continue to eat my occassional yummy bacon as part of my low-carb plan. SignaturePeter > Here go the scaremongers again. If you were a rat and ate 5 times your body > weight in bacon every day for twenty years, you might have a higher than > normal chance of getting cancer. Same thing they used to say about > saccharine. No scare mongering here. At this point, I'm pretty sure you haven't read what I've said in this thread, so I'll repeat. 1> Nitrates and nitrites are not in themselves dangerous 2> Nitrosamines are formed by high heat cooking of certain cured meats (i.e. those containing nitrates/nitrites), particularly bacon. 3> Nitrosamines are carcinogenic This is what I've said. They are all facts. > I challenge you to name *one* single person who got cancer from eating > bacon. Just one, out of the millions of people who eat bacon every day. Or > even just one that is cited by a scientific study as having contracted > cancer from nitrites in bacon. Just one. Oh, you can't? I rest my case. > And continue to eat my occassional yummy bacon as part of my low-carb > plan. Eat all the bacon you want. I do. I just don't overcook cured bacon. SignatureReg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com > No scare mongering here. At this point, I'm pretty sure you haven't > read what I've said in this thread, so I'll repeat. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > This is what I've said. They are all facts. I had also heard those facts before. I had also heard that certain vegetables are also full of nitrates. Well, it's true, and I found a long thorough discussion about it here on the web (Google - "Vegetable nitrates"). http://www.jrc.es/iptsreport/vol19/english/HEA1E196.htm It's pretty interesting. Bottom line - nitrates by themselves are not unsafe. The nitrosamines that are caused before ingestion, as Reg says, by cooking at high temperatures, can cause cancer. What I want to know is, what does this have to do with Low Carbing? Is this just another random belief that someone has tacked onto the Atkins diet, like the no-caffeine rule? Or do nitrates actually affect the glycemic index of foods? Rebecca > I had also heard those facts before. I had also heard that certain > vegetables are also full of nitrates. Well, it's true, and I found a > long thorough discussion about it here on the web (Google - "Vegetable > nitrates"). This is true. Pesticides in fruits and vegetables are a major source of nitrates. > Or do nitrates actually affect the > glycemic index of foods? No, not in any way. SignatureReg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com >> I had also heard those facts before. I had also heard that certain >> vegetables are also full of nitrates. Well, it's true, and I found a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > This is true. Pesticides in fruits and vegetables are > a major source of nitrates. It's not the pesticides, but the fertilizers that increase their nitrate concentration. Organic produce is not necessarily any better, since compost and manure are rather high in nitrogen. But there are also a certain amount of nitrates that just occur naturally in many vegetables. What the article said was that the nitrates in the vegetables don't seem to have any bad effect on humans as found by studies comparing the cancer rate in populations with a lot of nitrates in their veggies vs populations with less. I also thought it was interesting that when they measured dietary nitrate intake, they estimated that vegetarians ate more than average. The authors also theorized that there seems to be a protective function for nitrates in our bodies. So they might not be all bad. At any rate, it's not a simple issue. Avoiding all preserved/processed meat is probably not really necessary. I'll try cooking my bacon your way next time. That would hopefully be less messy anyway. I get tired of having grease spattered all over the stovetop. >> Or do nitrates actually affect the glycemic index of foods? > > No, not in any way. So really, for the purpose of Atkins Induction, it's not relevant. Wouldn't you say? Rebecca > It's not the pesticides, but the fertilizers that increase their nitrate > concentration. You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. Sorry, it's a bit late for me :) > I also thought it was interesting that when they measured dietary > nitrate intake, they estimated that vegetarians ate more than average. Something of an irony, isn't it? SignatureReg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com > I challenge you to name *one* single person who got cancer from eating > bacon. I tend to agree with your post, but to be fair to the other side- this challenge doesn't really do anything to make the point. I can't name one single person who got cancer from smoking cigarettes, but that doesn't mean that smoking doesn't cause cancer. These causal connections are inferred from population studies, which means that (for example) we have discovered that when a large population smokes, there are more cases of cancer. This doesn't mean we can attribute a particular case of cancer to smoking. I don't know whether the (supposed) link between nitrates and cancer was found by feeding rats an extraordinary amount of nitrates, but even if it was, it may be the case that if you eat bacon, you will have less risk of cancer than the rats did (because you are eating less), but still have an increased risk over someone who eats no bacon at all. To bring the debate back on topic, it is important to many people who begin lo-carb diets to find something fun to eat. Bacon scratches that itch for a lot of people, me included- you don't feel like you are depriving yourself if you can have things like bacon for breakfast, guacamole for snack, and steak for dinner. So, it may be an acceptable risk. I try to keep my risk down in other areas, to compensate. SignatureTo reply by email, please edit return address as indicated. >> I challenge you to name *one* single person who got cancer from eating >> bacon. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > population smokes, there are more cases of cancer. This doesn't mean > we can attribute a particular case of cancer to smoking. Lots of them are inferred from animal studies. You feed animals a lot of X, they get cancer, then we infer that X is carcinogenic. It has been established that if something is carcinogenic in higher doses, it is also carcinogenic in lower doses, with proportionally lower effect, of course. > I don't know whether the (supposed) link between nitrates and cancer > was found by feeding rats an extraordinary amount of nitrates, but even > if it was, it may be the case that if you eat bacon, you will have less > risk of cancer than the rats did (because you are eating less), but > still have an increased risk over someone who eats no bacon at all. You are correct. Bacon is great stuff, but you can either eat it without frying, or fry it after soaking in water to remove extra salt and nitrites. I wish I could eat more bacon. i > It's hard to find packs of nitrate free bacon here in the UK (at least I've > not seen them). Would eating bacon that contained 11% nitrates and zero > carbs be that bad during induction? It's not the nitrates themselves that are harmful, it's a byproduct of them called nitrosamines. These are formed by cooking the bacon at high heat, to the point where they become charred. Cook them in a 325 F oven until they are cooked but not overly browned, or cook them in a microwave. Just don't overcook them. You can also make your own bacon. It's not hard at all. SignatureReg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com "Reg" <reg@nospam.com> wrote..... > It's not the nitrates themselves that are harmful, it's a byproduct > of them called nitrosamines. These are formed by cooking the bacon > at high heat, to the point where they become charred. bugger bugger bugger. I have eaten 4 slices since I started induction on sunday. I'm also concerned about the smoked mackerel I had today - it mentioned sodium i believe. > You can also make your own bacon. It's not hard at all. First, get a pig . . . "Reg" <reg@nospam.com> wrote..... > You can also make your own bacon. It's not hard at all. What about "fresh" bacon you get over the counter that they slice for you there and then - rather than the prepacked stuff - is that any better or still bad? > What about "fresh" bacon you get over the counter that they slice for you > there and then - rather than the prepacked stuff - is that any better or > still bad? Unless the bacon is specifically marked as free of nitrates/nitrites, you should assume it contains them. The important thing is to not overcook bacon. SignatureReg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com > Also, I have some prepacked smoked mackerel & packed fresh smoked haddock - > are these OK? The packaging seems devoid of all nutrition info. I've been eating prepacked peppered smoked mackerel from Sainsbury's. There's nutrition info on the inside of the label (you can't see it until you open the pack). I'm also eating bacon by the fistful, so I'm not sure I want to know about nitrates :-) slr >>Also, I have some prepacked smoked mackerel & packed fresh smoked > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'm also eating bacon by the fistful, so I'm not sure I want to know > about nitrates :-) Smoked fish is OK. It's cooked at a low enough temperature so that no nitrosamines are produced. And once again, don't overcook the bacon. SignatureReg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com > Smoked fish is OK. It's cooked at a low enough temperature so that > no nitrosamines are produced. And once again, don't overcook the bacon. I thought that nitrosamines were produced in the stomach after eating the bacon. I'm no expert- anyone else know for sure? You won't be able to find nitrate-free bacon in some locations. In California, state law requires that nitrate be added. SignatureTo reply by email, please edit return address as indicated. > It's hard to find packs of nitrate free bacon here in the UK (at least I've > not seen them). Would eating bacon that contained 11% nitrates and zero > carbs be that bad during induction? I've been doing this seven months, and I still haven't found nitrate-free bacon anywhere in the UK. And really, I think the risk of any problems is pretty small as long as you don't overcook it, by which I mean simply avoid burning it. And I once had a very interesting conversation with a butcher at one of the food lovers markets in which he said that nitrate-free bacon wouldn't actually be 'bacon' as we know it, but salt pork. He found the whole idea hilarious. The problem I found with bacon - and you may be luckier - is that if I eat supermarket bacon I retain water like a sponge. It's far too salty. If I want bacon I have to buy the stuff from very expensive producers who make it from pork from free-range pigs and dry-cure it the old fashioned way. This makes it a very rare treat, but when I can get it I enjoy every mouthful. Supermarket bacon simply does not compare. > Also, I have some prepacked smoked mackerel & packed fresh smoked haddock - > are these OK? The packaging seems devoid of all nutrition info. I ate smoked mackerel every day for about four months before I got tired of it and moved on to something else, so if it's dodgy it's too late. I still eat kippers most days for breakfast. I suppose there might be some minimal amount of carbs if you have peppered smoked mackerel. As I said, the only thing to bear in mind is that you might retain water from all that salt. -- Lexin (300/237/182) LC since 9 June 2003 how do you prepare kippers for breakfast? they are canned here in the states- I think of them as a snack. Signature--------------------------------------------------------------------- "Are you still wasting your time with spam?... There is a solution!" Protected by GIANT Company's Spam Inspector The most powerful anti-spam software available. http://mail.spaminspector.com > > It's hard to find packs of nitrate free bacon here in the UK (at least I've > > not seen them). Would eating bacon that contained 11% nitrates and zero [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > (300/237/182) > LC since 9 June 2003 > how do you prepare kippers for breakfast? they are canned here in the > states- I think of them as a snack. The short answer is that I don't, I buy them, and the scrambled egg to go with them, ready cooked from the canteen at work. On the odd occasions I buy kippers at weekends they aren't canned or frozen. They come as kipper fillets - they are very obviously dead smoked fish and are about a foot long with the heads and tails still on. I get them from the supermarket fish counter. These I grill (broil) under a low heat, turning them once or twice until I'm sure they're cooked through. The pestilence with these is that they are very much bonier than the ones I get from the canteen and take a while to eat. On the other hand, that stops me rushing breakfast. Oh, and they do make your house smell of kipper for weeks afterwards. -- Lexin (300/237/182) LC since 9 June 2003 3 Mins in the microwave on high, with a knob of butter (for 2 smallish boneless fillets) cover with a sheet of paper Kitchen towel Squeeze of lemon juice when nuked Yum Yum! Frenchy > > how do you prepare kippers for breakfast? they are canned here in the > > states- I think of them as a snack. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > (300/237/182) > LC since 9 June 2003 You can soak bacon in water if you want to lessen salt and nitrite content. i >> It's hard to find packs of nitrate free bacon here in the UK (at least I've >> not seen them). Would eating bacon that contained 11% nitrates and zero [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > As I said, the only thing to bear in mind is that you might retain > water from all that salt. Yes then put it in a hot skillet and get 3rd degree burns from the water and fat. Please dry the bacon thoroughly before cooking. SignatureEmil Luca 08-12-03 369/314/200 > You can soak bacon in water if you want to lessen salt and nitrite > content. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > As I said, the only thing to bear in mind is that you might retain > > water from all that salt. > Yes then put it in a hot skillet and get 3rd degree burns from the > water and fat. Please dry the bacon thoroughly before cooking. And please do not overcook it either. Even without nitrites, frying fat at high temperature crates heterocyclic amines, another carcinogen. i who eats breakfast without frying. > > Yes then put it in a hot skillet and get 3rd degree burns from the > > water and fat. Please dry the bacon thoroughly before cooking. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > i > who eats breakfast without frying. I rarely eat bacon, but when I do, I nuke it. When y'all say "don't cook at high temperatures" does that mean I should set my microwave to low? SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. >> > Yes then put it in a hot skillet and get 3rd degree burns from the >> > water and fat. Please dry the bacon thoroughly before cooking. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I rarely eat bacon, but when I do, I nuke it. When y'all say "don't cook > at high temperatures" does that mean I should set my microwave to low? Does it get scorched when you nuke it, or does it look more like it was boiled? Does the fat change color to brown? I think that bacon is very tasty stuff, and eat it without frying. i > >> In article <oVcNb.29865$P%1.24443199@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>, Emil > >> Luca [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > i I think it came out red with yellowish-white fat. Maybe some brown on the edges. SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. |
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