Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion GroupsGeneral TopicsLow CarbWeightWatchers
WeightAdviser.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / January 2004

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Need your help:  Atkins vs Dr. Bernstein

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Maryann - 17 Jan 2004 18:44 GMT
Which diet is better to follow?  I don't know which diet would give the best
and quickest results.

I'm 50,  5"6" and 230 lbs,  borderline diabetic with sedentary activity due
to disability. I try to exercise on good days but am planning diet for worst
case scenario.

Based on a 1500 cal diet for my height and weight on  Dr. Bernstein's plan
I come up with 97 g fat, 20 g carb and 135 g protein a day.  That is not the
75% fat from diet ratio I read about everyone recommending
following Atkins.  So the 2 diets are not similar at all as far as a low
carb diet.

Also would someone refresh my memory on Atkins ,  if  75% is fat, what is
the  % for carbs and  and % for protein ratios?  I am having a mental
block, and getting more confused, as I try to get this figured out.

Thank you for you help.
placidbull - 17 Jan 2004 20:25 GMT
The reasoning behind the high fat percentage is that fat keeps you 100% in
ketosis (fat burning mode), protein only keeps you 58% in fat burning mode,
and carbs keep you 0% in fat burning mode.

So eating too many protein grams will kick you out of ketosis because
protein is only 58% effective in keeping you in ketosis.

I checked my www.fitday.com numbers for the last month and it seems that I
am eating 71% fat, 19% protein, and 9% carbs.

For a 1500 calorie diet that would be 118 grams of fat,
72 grams of protein, and 33 grams of carbs.

Also you might consider drinking 230/2 = 115 ounces of water daily
(minimum).

I'm guessing that for your height and weight you currently burn about 3000
calories a day ... so by eating 1500 low carb calories a day I am guessing
that you will lose about 3 pounds a week to begin with.

A 1500 calorie diet is a little hard to deal with so you might want to
consider starting off between 1800 and 2000 low-carb calories a day and then
gradually reduce your caloric intake as your weight decreases.

Aside from a daily walk, I have found that exercise is not necessary for
weight loss. I would suggest that after you lose about 30 pounds that you
then consider an exercise plan.

I'm no expert on this but this has been my personal experience.

Welcome to low-carbing!

Placid
203/155/149

> Which diet is better to follow?  I don't know which diet would give the best
> and quickest results.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Thank you for you help.
Jenny - 17 Jan 2004 20:29 GMT
Maryann,

I like Bernstein's approach because he pretty much tells you to use your
meter to see what your body can handle and shooting for normal blood sugars
rather than laying on a host of arbitrary rules.

When I stick to his diet, I eat about 40-45 grams of carbs a day divided
into 3 meals and one or two snacks. I stay around 12-15 grams per meal and 6
per snack.

I was sedentary due to a serious injury for many years and was able to lose
quite a lot of weight just through low carbing without any exercise at all.
I really only could exercise after the weight came off, because before that
doing anything put too much strain on my severely damaged back.  I'm
exercising a lot now, but can't get anywhere near the levels many people do
because I still have a lot of limitations which, if I push them, I end up
hurt.  The treadmill has been the one thing that really made a huge
difference in my fitness. I wrote up my experiences with it at
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/steps.htm . I am at my goal now and
my blood sugar is in very good shape too.

However, the Bernstein diet is very stringent, and long term it can be tough
to stick to. My doctor prescribed Precose for me which lets me boost my
carbs a bit now and then without having my blood sugar spike. It will cover
an additional 10 grams or so, which isn't a major binge, but can be the
difference between enjoying life, and not, long term. You probably wouldn't
want to use it while you were in the active weight loss phase of your diet,
but it's nice to know it's there for the future.

Finally, the one hugely helpful thing I read in Bernstein's book was the
suggestion that when your weight loss stops, you cut down on your protein.
I did and did it ever work!  Plus it got rid of the nasty diet breath that
many people erroneously think is from ketones, but is actually ammonia from
too much protein.

-- Jenny  - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.2.
Cut the carbs to respond to my  email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes,
strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit  http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

> Which diet is better to follow?  I don't know which diet would give the best
> and quickest results.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Thank you for you help.
The_Pittmans - 17 Jan 2004 22:31 GMT
> Which diet is better to follow?  I don't know which diet would give the best
> and quickest results.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Thank you for you help.

Atkins has been getting it right since the seventies. The others are trying
to catch up with a mixture of old school and proven to work Atkins by adding
low fat to low carb. It doesn't matter how many calories you are eating, it
is what you are eating that makes the difference.

I am never hungry, don't count calories, have lots of energy. I stopped
taking naps! I don't need them anymore. I think it is easy to count carbs
because most of my foods do not have any or less than 1. I also don't buy
"Low carb" labeled food like pancake and pastas from Atkins or others. It
costs too much and after getting over my carb cravings, I don't want to eat
them. Before starting, give unopened carby food to shelters, throw out the
rest that is open and stock up on foods you can eat. I like making extra
meals to freeze, so when I want something right now I can nuke them.

Do not go by what I say or others on a newsgroup. Get the books, read them
from front to back. Look up info you are not sure about and make an informed
decision.

Patty
Aramanth Dawe - 18 Jan 2004 00:19 GMT
>Atkins has been getting it right since the seventies. The others are trying
>to catch up with a mixture of old school and proven to work Atkins by adding
>low fat to low carb. It doesn't matter how many calories you are eating, it
>is what you are eating that makes the difference.

Bernstein has a LOT to offer the LCing diabetic.  Atkins was not a
diabetic, Bernstein is as well as being a physician AND having a PhD
(in Engineering - he got into medicine AFTER discovering for himself
that eating-to-his-(then)-newly-aquired meter worked.

While I don't dispute with you that Atkins can work (I started out
with it) there is NO single diet that works for everyone.  Atkins is
certainly a simple, straighforward approach and it works for many.
There are others of us who have to tweak a little or a lot to get
there.  Trust me on this.  I've been stalled for almost 3 years now,
tweaking like fury and NOTHING has worked.  

I strongly encourage anyone who is either diabetic or getting there to
at least consider Bernstein's approach.  It's not incompatible with
Atkins but it does offer a somewhat better chance of living the rest
of your life with your eyes, limbs and kidneys intact.  For me, this
is extremely important.  If you're not diabetic you probably don't
need to be as strict as Bernstein is, but if you are (as I am, as the
OP is somewhat) then going more strict than pure Atkins can be a
literal life-saver.

Aramanth
- 18 Jan 2004 02:44 GMT
|| Atkins has been getting it right since the seventies. The others are
|| trying to catch up with a mixture of old school and proven to work
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
|
| Aramanth

I just read Bernstein's Diabetes Solution.  I find Atkins and Bernstein to
be remarkably compatible.  I've been following Atkins for quite a while, and
have had to make no changes since reading Bernstein.  My BG has been in the
normal range for over a month following my Atkins plan faithfully. When I
reach my weight loss goal I may have to add breakfast (which I never eat)
and a couple of snacks as Bernstein suggests, but for now I'm fine.

This thread sounds like kids in the schoolyard saying, "My Dad can beat up
your Dad!"  B oth Atkins and Bernstein have something valuable to offer the
overweight diabetic, and sensible people will read all available materials
on the subject and tailor the best ideas to what will work for them.

IMHO, of course.
Signature

Peter
website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Aramanth Dawe - 19 Jan 2004 08:33 GMT
>I just read Bernstein's Diabetes Solution.  I find Atkins and Bernstein to
>be remarkably compatible.  I've been following Atkins for quite a while, and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>IMHO, of course.

You're preaching to the choir, Peter!

My post was not intended to disparage Atkins.  As I said, I started
with Atkins and I think it's a pretty good starting point.

However, Patty wrote in response to the OP's question *specifically*
regarding Bernstein and how it differed from her understanding of
Atkins:

>Atkins has been getting it right since the seventies. The others are trying
>to catch up with a mixture of old school and proven to work Atkins by adding
>low fat to low carb. It doesn't matter how many calories you are eating, it
>is what you are eating that makes the difference.

Now, you and I have been around here for long enough to know that
while Atkins is a *good* plan, it's not necessarily the be all and end
all of LC.  To disparage other plans by dismissing them as 'old
school' and 'trying to catch up' is to do many fine medicos a
dis-service.

Bernstein came at his plan from a completely different approach - the
absolute, over-riding NECESSITY for a diabetic person to keep their
sugar levels as close as possible to 'normal' all the time to avoid
horrible complications.  The fact that it turns out to be pretty close
to Atkins in many respects doesn't make it a pale imitation.  That two
doctors, working in very different fields, independently came up with
similar plans is a good indication that it is likely to work for a
number of people.  

There are many people for whom 'straight Atkins' may not be the best
plan.  Vegetarians, for instance, if they prefer not to revert to meat
eating (and many don't - because they are more comfortable avoiding
it, because for medical reasons they are better off avoiding it,
because they are morally convinced that eating the Products Of
Slaughter would pollute them spiritually - it doesn't matter the
reasoning) may find that Protein Power, with it's higher allowed Carb
Counts, fits their requirements.  For them, trading off a slower loss
without compromising their philosophy may be worth while.  It doesn't
make the Eades plan an 'old school trying to catch up'.

There is a significant minority of people for whom Atkins alone does
NOT control their cholesterol levels.  For them, the GO-plan may be
more appropriate.  It's not a cop-out or an Atkins clone but a plan
studied and worked to help out that group of people.

To the OP, Maryann, Atkins DOES NOT have a set ratio for
Protein/Carbs/Fat.  Many people have found that their loss comes best
with a 75% fat, roughly 20% protein and 5% carb level BUT others have
found that other ratios suit them best.  

Even though you mention that you're pretty sedentary I think you might
be restricting yourself a bit too much going to 1500 cals a day at
your weight.  You may do better at 1800 on a 'bad' day and around 2000
or even a little higher on good days.  A lot of people have found that
in beginning LC they can eat quite a bit, exercise little or not at
all and STILL lose weight on around 10 calories per pound of body
weight.  1500 calories may leave you feeling deprived and
uncomfortable and more likely to 'cheat'.

Also, especially if you've been following a fairly low protein eating
plan for a while (many low-fat diets inadvertently become low-protein
because of the concerns of fat in the meat) you might find yourself
gaining a little weight at first as your muscles are rebuilt when you
start getting adequate protein intake.  This is a GOOD thing as
muscles are much more metabolically active than fat store so you'll
burn more calories even at rest when more of your body tissue is
muscle.  

Best of luck with your new way of eating (WOE).  I hope that you find,
as I did, that a LC plan leads to increased health and strength.

Aramanth
5 1/2 years a Low Carber.
Howard - 18 Jan 2004 01:58 GMT
>Which diet is better to follow?

Whichever works best for you.  Personally, I prefer Cordain, but both
Bernstein and Atkins worked pretty well for me.

>Also would someone refresh my memory on Atkins ,  if  75% is fat, what is
>the  % for carbs and  and % for protein ratios?  I am having a mental
>block, and getting more confused, as I try to get this figured out.

Try reading the book.

---
Howard Lee Harkness
Insurance for H1-Bs: http://www.H1Bins.com
Healthcare for the uninsurable: http://www.AFFHC.com
Medigap insurance information: http://medigap.supremesite.net
- 18 Jan 2004 01:57 GMT
\
|| Also would someone refresh my memory on Atkins ,  if  75% is fat, what is
|| the  % for carbs and  and % for protein ratios?  I am having a mental
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
| ---
| Howard Lee Harkness

Feel the love ...
Signature

Peter
website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Jeri - 18 Jan 2004 13:34 GMT
> Which diet is better to follow?  I don't know which diet would give
> the best and quickest results.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>  Based on a 1500 cal diet for my height and weight on  Dr.
> Bernstein's plan
<snip>

I admit right up front that I don't know anything about Dr Bernstein's plan
so if I'm asking a stupid question please forgive me. Are you sure 1500
calories is correct? That seems pretty low even considering you're
sedentary. It's only 6.5 calories per pound of your current body weight.
Plugging your numbers into a BMR calculator comes up with 1719 calories
required just to keep your metabolism where it should be. You've said on
good days you can do some exercise so even on the days you can't do extra
you'll still have some light activity. That's going to add some calories
burned also.
I'm just concerned that you're going to slow down your metabolism by eating
so few calories right at the start.

http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html
Signature

Jeri
265/189/120
Atkins since 11/5/01
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2012 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.