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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / January 2004South Beach: question about Dairy contradiction in Phase One
First day on this plan and I have a question: The South Beach Diet book includes dairy as "Foods to Avoid" in phase one, even though snacks in phase one include mozarella cheese, and desserts include ricotta cheese (surprisingly delicious). It even suggests avoiding low-fat or skim milk. On the other hand, the SBD Good Fats Good Carbs guide has its own "Foods to Enjoy" and "Foods to Avoid" section for Phase One. It suggests avoiding "full-fat" dairy and has low-fat dairy in the "Foods to Enjoy" category. Any comments on this from the South Beach veterans? Seems to be a pretty clear-cut contradiction. > First day on this plan and I have a question: > The South Beach Diet book includes dairy as "Foods to Avoid" in phase [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Any comments on this from the South Beach veterans? Seems to be a > pretty clear-cut contradiction. I haven't seen the guide you are talking about, but it sounds like it's less confused than the book. When I read the book I concluded that he intended to permit the listed reduced fat cheeses but no other dairy products on phase I. That's what the guide seems to be telling you to do, so I would go ahead and follow that. One way that I dealt with the many contradictions and incomplete lists in the book was to review the sample menus and recipes carefully. Looking at the ingredients and items on the menu will provide a cleared view of what's permitted. carla On 18-Jan-2004, johngraham2@hotmail.com (John Graham) says: > First day on this plan and I have a question: > The South Beach Diet book includes dairy as "Foods to Avoid" in phase [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Any comments on this from the South Beach veterans? Seems to be a > pretty clear-cut contradiction. He considers mozarella and ricotta (as well as cheddar) to be sufficiently low in fat for Phase 1. We managed to lose the target pounds eating plenty of both.  SignatureTabi Kasanari : On 18-Jan-2004, johngraham2@hotmail.com (John Graham) says: : [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] : > suggests avoiding "full-fat" dairy and has low-fat dairy in the "Foods : > to Enjoy" category. [snip] I'm not too sure about this either but I thought I saw something about the "milk solids" added to low and skim milk to make them more palatable. I can remember when skim milk was blue in color and pretty awful. Now the skim milk is white - thanks to the "milk solids" and since the "milk solids" can't be plastic, couldn't they be carbohydrates? Jois You would hope that labels don't lie. Non-fat milk reflects no carbs on the label. This would indicate no sugars also. I have not made it all the way through the book yet, but at this point I am also confused as to whether non-fat (skim) milk is acceptable in phase one. It would be nice to know if there is some chemical reason for it's exclusion, if indeed it should be excluded. If there is no chemical reason, it does not make sense to me that including a normal size glass of non-fat milk would keep one from losing weight during phase one. Steve > I'm not too sure about this either but I thought I saw something about the > "milk solids" added to low and skim milk to make them more palatable. I can [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jois >You would hope that labels don't lie. Non-fat milk reflects no carbs >on the label. You found lactose free milk? The lower the fat content, the higher the sugar content, as far as milk goes. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You found lactose free milk? The lower the fat content, the higher the sugar > content, as far as milk goes. Just so we don't confuse people, you (and the OP whose attribution got lost) are referring to mythical skim milk with no carbs. OP is obviously confused, skim/non-fat milk has about 11g carb per cup, more if it has added milk solids. Meanwhile, milk *sold* as Lactose Free does not have the sugars removed, merely broken down into easier to digest sugars. Signaturejamie (jamiemck@newsguy.com) "There's a seeker born every minute." I guess I'm just trying to decide whether to go ahead and drink the 1% milk we picked up when we did groceries. I'm not sure if Phase 1 allows it or not. You know how it is: you hate to waste food. But if it's going to screw up my Phase 1, that's what I'll have to do. > > x-no-archive: yes > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Meanwhile, milk *sold* as Lactose Free does not have the sugars removed, > merely broken down into easier to digest sugars. On page 127 of the SBD book on "Foods To Avoid" under the heading "Dairy" it says "Avoid all dairy in Phase 1, including: Milk, low-fat, fat-free and whole." HTH dot I guess I'm just trying to decide whether to go ahead and drink the 1% milk we picked up when we did groceries. I'm not sure if Phase 1 allows it or not. You know how it is: you hate to waste food. But if it's going to screw up my Phase 1, that's what I'll have to do. jamie@sure.spam-me-silly.net (jamie) wrote in message news:<slrnc0mgvb.bk.jamie@bozo2.local.net>... > Susan <sufein@aol.comnospam> wrote: > > x-no-archive: yes [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Meanwhile, milk *sold* as Lactose Free does not have the sugars removed, > merely broken down into easier to digest sugars. Just received an update from the website: Milk: Old Version: Avoid all dairy in Phase 1, except for less than 2 tablespoons fat-free ? and ?, nonfat milk, 1 percent milk, or soy milk allowed with coffee. New Version: Phase 1: Now includes low-fat milk (fat-free and 1 percent), soy milk, and yogurt (low-fat or fat-free plain or vanilla light/lite only) on the Phase 1 "foods to enjoy" list. Guess that answers it. Good timing for that update to get to me... Guess I should start doing this: 222/219/175 (on day 4 - good start!) > On page 127 of the SBD book on "Foods To Avoid" under the heading "Dairy" it > says "Avoid all dairy in Phase 1, including: Milk, low-fat, fat-free and [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Meanwhile, milk *sold* as Lactose Free does not have the sugars removed, > > merely broken down into easier to digest sugars. He stresses no milk and if you must have a splash in coffee to use cream rather than milk....... amy > I guess I'm just trying to decide whether to go ahead and drink the 1% > milk we picked up when we did groceries. I'm not sure if Phase 1 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Meanwhile, milk *sold* as Lactose Free does not have the sugars removed, > > merely broken down into easier to digest sugars. > He stresses no milk and if you must have a splash in coffee to use cream > rather than milk....... Huh? Agatston said that? The last revision I saw, which admittedly was a while ago, said: "Fat Free 1/2 & 1/2, Nonfat milk, 1% milk, Soy milk allowed with coffee. Otherwise, avoid all other dairy products (unless listed under protein choices or sweet treats). Limit to < 2 TBS per cup of coffee. Otherwise avoid all milk products in Phase 1, including: Yogurt, cup style and frozen; Ice cream; Milk, low-fat, fat-free, whole; Milk, Soy" This was what a person who belonged to the site said was posted there. It may have been further revised later, but since Agatston seems to be against using saturated fats, cream seems unlikely. SignatureJean B. > Agatston seems to be against using saturated fats Not true. He's just not as gung-ho about them as Atkins used to be. SignatureTabi Kasanari >Not true. He's just not as gung-ho about them as Atkins used to be. Right, Agatston prefers modified food starches in your dairy to saturated fat. DISGUSTING. Susan > > Agatston seems to be against using saturated fats > > Not true. He's just not as gung-ho about them as Atkins used to be. > > -- > Tabi Kasanari That must be why he uses 1% cottage cheese, fat-free evaporated milk, reduced-fat Monterey Jack, reduced-fat Mozzarella, part-skim ricotta cheese, olive oil (as vs. butter), nonfat dry milk, reduced-fat mayonnaise, fat-free sour cream, fat-free half & half, egg substitute (although he does say this is up to you), Canadian bacon (as vs. streaky bacon), skinless chicken, fat-free chicken broth, bacon bits, etc., etc. Yes, he does use blue cheese, parmesan cheese, real eggs (sometimes), T-bone steak, flank steak (I think that's a lean cut) and other steaks, mayonnaise (in ONE recipe in Phase 1), and oh one whole TBSP of heavy cream in ONE recipe in Phase 1. Agatston says "The low-fat regimen's severe restrictions on meat were unnecessary--the latest studies have shown that LEAN meat did not have a harmful effect on blood chemistry." (p. 11, emphasis added) And lest you think I deliberately omitted this, I will say he goes on to say that "Even egg yolks are good for you...). He then says he allows for "plenty of healthy MONO- and POLYUNSATURATED fats", which he calls "good fats". Your interpretation of what Agatston says is rather odd to say the least. I have the book in front of me! SignatureJean B. Are you subscribed to the website? I hear alot of stuff from the website is waaaaayyyyy different than the book...actually, it's more like "make it up as he goes when he gets asked more questions"......nonetheless I LIKE his way of doing things..... amy > > > Agatston seems to be against using saturated fats > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > -- > Jean B. >I hear alot of stuff from the >website is waaaaayyyyy different than the book...actually, it's more >like "make it up as he goes when he gets asked more >questions"......nonetheless I LIKE his way of doing things..... > >amy People who've come here have complained about a lack of information or consistent information from the website. It doesn't appear to be worth anything. Susan > Are you subscribed to the website? I hear alot of stuff from the > website is waaaaayyyyy different than the book...actually, it's more > like "make it up as he goes when he gets asked more > questions"......nonetheless I LIKE his way of doing things..... > > amy No, I'm not. However, I still belong to a couple of SBD lists (on yahoo) from when I thought I might try the SBD. Some helpful people have posted some of the revisions from the paid site. I agree that much of it seems like it is being made up on the spot. That and the inconsistencies in the book make it look like this was all just rushed into production without adequate thought. SignatureJean B. Sorry..that's what I've always heard from people paying for the website... amy > > He stresses no milk and if you must have a splash in coffee to use cream > > rather than milk....... [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > -- > Jean B. Milk, lowfat, 1% milkfat, 13.6 g carb per cup Phase 1 isn't about losing weight, it's about changing your body processes. In news:3c077a44.0401181520.31b73d52@posting.google.com, Steve Jarvis <CindyandSteveJ@yahoo.com> stated | You would hope that labels don't lie. Non-fat milk reflects no carbs | on the label. This would indicate no sugars also. I have not made it [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] || || Jois Go back and look again. Non-fat milk is loaded with carbs. SignatureJC Eat less, exercise more. -- > You would hope that labels don't lie. Non-fat milk reflects no carbs > on the label. This would indicate no sugars also. I have not made it [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > > Jois My bad...big sugar-high moment there...the milk in my fridge is 12g carbs...guess I won't be usin' that...looks like the empty calories of the Coors Light at 5g carbs could be a better choice...but I'm sure I'll pick-up some V8 or just drink tea instead > You would hope that labels don't lie. Non-fat milk reflects no carbs > on the label. This would indicate no sugars also. I have not made it [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > > Jois |
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