Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion GroupsGeneral TopicsLow CarbWeightWatchers
WeightAdviser.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / January 2004

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Question about keto-stix and exercise, etc.

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Frank - 20 Jan 2004 19:06 GMT
Can someone clarify: I'm on a ketogenic diet to burn fat fast. Am I
right in thinking that the darker my keto-sticks read, the more fat
I'm burning? And am I right in thinking that if I minimise my dietary
fat intake, then my body will be forced to burn more body fat?

Also: any tips on exercise while on this diet? What type of exercise
burns the most fat? I'm a fit male aged 50. I'm currently doing 30
minutes of cardio on a tradmill followed by ten minutes on weights (in
both cases, I try to keep my pulse above the 'target rate' of 130 bpm.
I am definitely losing weight without too much discomfort. Anyone
offer any additional advice or put me right on any of these points?

Thank you

Frank
Sandy K. - 20 Jan 2004 19:10 GMT
> Can someone clarify: I'm on a ketogenic diet to burn fat fast. Am I
> right in thinking that the darker my keto-sticks read, the more fat
> I'm burning? And am I right in thinking that if I minimise my dietary
> fat intake, then my body will be forced to burn more body fat?

You are somewhat correct.  The darker the sticks, the more ketones are being
released through your urine.  I equate that with burning fat.  However, and
this is based on Atkins, if you minimize the amount of fat you eat, then
your body will tend to store fat.  The idea being that when you consume
foods high in fats (and I sugggest good fats) then your body will allow you
to burn your fat stores.  That's why low-fat diets don't work very well.

> Also: any tips on exercise while on this diet? What type of exercise
> burns the most fat? I'm a fit male aged 50. I'm currently doing 30
> minutes of cardio on a tradmill followed by ten minutes on weights (in
> both cases, I try to keep my pulse above the 'target rate' of 130 bpm.
> I am definitely losing weight without too much discomfort. Anyone
> offer any additional advice or put me right on any of these points?

Any and al exercise is good for you.  Be sure to drink lots of water, read
the diet plan and go from there....

Good luck,
Sandy K.
237/211.5/180 LC since 9/2/03
DJ Delorie - 20 Jan 2004 19:28 GMT
> Can someone clarify: I'm on a ketogenic diet to burn fat fast. Am I
> right in thinking that the darker my keto-sticks read, the more fat
> I'm burning?

Not always.  It depends on how much fat you eat, and how much water
you drink.  The ketostix are there just to tell you that you've gone
into ketosis (i.e. your carb intake is low enough).  The actual color
doesn't matter, as long as it's non-beige.

> And am I right in thinking that if I minimise my dietary fat intake,
> then my body will be forced to burn more body fat?

Up to a point.  If you drop calories too low, your body starts slowing
down its metabolism (antibody production, CNS response, core temp,
etc), which is bad for other reasons.

The most extreme non-fasting diet is a "protein sparing modified fast"
where you eat sufficient protein, but little fat and carbs (some fat
for EFAs, some carbs to limit protein->carb conversions).

> I'm currently doing 30 minutes of cardio on a tradmill followed by
> ten minutes on weights

I'd swap these two.  Better, do 5-10 min of cardio as a warm-up, then
the weights, and then the rest of the cardio.  You want to do weights
when you have the most muscle glycogen, so you can get the most
performance (and thus best strength improvements).

> I am definitely losing weight without too much discomfort.

So what's your problem?  ;-)
Frank - 20 Jan 2004 20:37 GMT
>>Frank32@nospam.net (Frank) writes:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>>
>>So what's your problem?  ;-)

No problem. ;-) just wanted to make sure I'm doing things right...
Thanks for the tip on exercising. I came to the same conclusion today,
but for a different reason: 10 mins of cardio prior to
weight-training, helps prevent joint problems etc (or so my gym
trainer says).

Do you happen to know what the ideal intake of good fats is per day
when on a ketogenic diet? (i.e., to stop the body from wanting to
retain body fat?  I'm eating a small amount of veggies and nuts with
my whey powder shakes and eggs. I'm a vegetarian so I don't use meat.
I take a break from the diet one day a week. This stops me from
feeling too weird, keeps my energy up... I'm told it restores liver
glycogen so that one can exercise more effectively.

You mentioned the benefits of taking some carbs to limit
"protein->carb conversion". Can you expand on that? I generally eat a
little carb in the form of a few vegetables each day, but not enough
to put me out of ketosis. Is that about right?

Thanks again, and thanks to Sandy K too...

Frank
DJ Delorie - 20 Jan 2004 21:50 GMT
> No problem. ;-) just wanted to make sure I'm doing things right...
> Thanks for the tip on exercising. I came to the same conclusion today,
> but for a different reason: 10 mins of cardio prior to
> weight-training, helps prevent joint problems etc (or so my gym
> trainer says).

Yup, it's a warm-up.  You want to do some cardio beforehand, but not
too much.

> Do you happen to know what the ideal intake of good fats is per day
> when on a ketogenic diet? (i.e., to stop the body from wanting to
> retain body fat?

This boils down to calories.  If you eat less calories than you burn,
you burn body fat.  LC makes some people's metabolisms work more, or
more efficiently, hence they burn more, but it's still in vs out.
See: http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/proteincalc.htm

> I'm eating a small amount of veggies and nuts with my whey powder
> shakes and eggs. I'm a vegetarian so I don't use meat.

Olives, mayo, cheese too.

> I take a break from the diet one day a week. This stops me from
> feeling too weird, keeps my energy up... I'm told it restores liver
> glycogen so that one can exercise more effectively.

Liver glycogen has little to do with exercise.  It's muscle glycogen
that counts.  Liver glycogen helps in the long run by keeping insulin
up and promoting an anabolic metabolism, but asdlc experience says it
isn't significant (for us LCers at least).  Most LCers either use TKD
(some carbs just after workout) or CKD (carb-up once a week) to
replenish muscle glycogen.

Also note that a regular "off-diet" meal or day is a major psych
boost, and can help you stick to your diet longer (i.e. better
long-term results).  Whatever works for you.  Note, however, that
mixing high carbs and high fat at the same time may cause problems.
If you do a high-carb meal/day, try to limit fats for those
meals/days.

> You mentioned the benefits of taking some carbs to limit
> "protein->carb conversion". Can you expand on that?

If the liver is low on glycogen, it will convert up to 58% of the
protein you eat into carbs.  How much depends on the types of proteins
and the glycogen depletion.  So, each gram of carbs you eat spares
about two grams of protein.

> I generally eat a little carb in the form of a few vegetables each
> day, but not enough to put me out of ketosis. Is that about right?

It won't stop the carb conversion.  The veggies are there to provide
micronutrients and fiber more than anything else.
AmyB - 20 Jan 2004 22:35 GMT
> > No problem. ;-) just wanted to make sure I'm doing things right...
> > Thanks for the tip on exercising. I came to the same conclusion today,
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> (some carbs just after workout) or CKD (carb-up once a week) to
> replenish muscle glycogen.

For me at least, this LC thing just got really complicated.  Could you point
me toward some more info on whatever TKD and CKD are?
I thought the purpose of the induction phase of the LC WOE was to deplete
the liver of its stored glycogen.  But what you are saying is that the body
will convert protein into carbs?  Then why will the body ever burn fat
(which I know it does)?
I've also tried to figure out Jenny's protein calculator, and man it's tough
and believe it or not, I've got a B.S in Chem. with a minor in math. Someone
should offer to write her a program to figure it out for different inputs.
(I can't program worth sh*t)

> Also note that a regular "off-diet" meal or day is a major psych
> boost, and can help you stick to your diet longer (i.e. better
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> It won't stop the carb conversion.  The veggies are there to provide
> micronutrients and fiber more than anything else.
So what kind of carbs should one ingest to spare the protein from conversion
if not vegi's?

I'm really not trying to come off as a complete idiot, but . . . .  I wish I
knew more about the biochemistry of this WOE!!

--
AmyB
LC since 12/01/03
238/227/165
DJ Delorie - 20 Jan 2004 23:38 GMT
> For me at least, this LC thing just got really complicated.

Ok, then... ignore TKD and CKD for now.  Ignore the protein issue.
For Induction, just worry about the carb level and NOTHING ELSE.

> Could you point me toward some more info on whatever TKD and CKD
> are?

TKD - targetted ketogenic diet
CKD - cyclic ketogenic diet

Google should be able to find plenty of info on these, or the ASDLC
FAQ.  They're mostly for weight training anyway.  TKD simplified - eat
50g of carbs with 25g protein after each workout.  Some "post workout"
bars or shakes happen to have those amounts in them.

> I thought the purpose of the induction phase of the LC WOE was to
> deplete the liver of its stored glycogen.

The purpose of induction is to get you started (hence the name).  A
few things happen: liver glycogen is depleted, inducing ketosis.
Insulin levels are reduced, which reduces hunger.  Your brain and
other body organs switch to burning ketones instead of carbs.  Your
muscles learn to burn FFAs instead of carbs.

> But what you are saying is that the body will convert protein into
> carbs?  Then why will the body ever burn fat (which I know it does)?

The protein conversion is (1) slow and (2) usually not enough to push
you out of ketosis without eating a *LOT* of protein (~200g).  It's
been known to happen, but it's about twice the protein anyone really
needs.

The body burns fat when there aren't enough calories for what it needs
to do.  Ketosis simply makes this a lot easier for your body to do.

> I've also tried to figure out Jenny's protein calculator, and man
> it's tough and believe it or not, I've got a B.S in Chem. with a
> minor in math. Someone should offer to write her a program to figure
> it out for different inputs.  (I can't program worth sh*t)

Here's an example:

       20g carbs = 80 kcals
       100g protein = 400 kcals
       1800 kcals total, minus 400, minus 80, is 1320 kcals remaining
       1320 kcals = 147g fats

But yeah, an online form would help.

> > It won't stop the carb conversion.  The veggies are there to provide
> > micronutrients and fiber more than anything else.
> So what kind of carbs should one ingest to spare the protein from conversion
> if not vegi's?

More veggies, of course.  But the 20g carb limit isn't enough to stop
the conversion; you'd have to eat 100g or more (i.e. leave ketosis) to
fully stop it.  After Induction, you'll be increasing your carb intake
anyway.  Besides, you don't need to stop the conversion - it's a
normal thing for your body to do and won't usually cause problems.

> I'm really not trying to come off as a complete idiot, but . . . .
> I wish I knew more about the biochemistry of this WOE!!

You don't alway need to know more, unless you're that kind of
obsessive compulsive personality like me.
AmyB - 21 Jan 2004 00:59 GMT
> > For me at least, this LC thing just got really complicated.
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> But yeah, an online form would help.

You know, (this is kinda OT for this thread but),
I just noticed on Fitday, that the program does not count the calories
included in the fiber that is listed as part of the carb.  I.e., for the day
(as of now)  I have eaten 16g carbs of which 4 are fiber, the calories
listed are 49kcal.  Hmm?  How does that work for nutritional labels?  I
assume they use total carbs in grams and multiply by 4kcal/carb(g).  Should
fiber count toward calories, and if not how would you suggest to use Jenny's
formula to determine the calories:  total carbs or net carbs?

> > > It won't stop the carb conversion.  The veggies are there to provide
> > > micronutrients and fiber more than anything else.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> You don't alway need to know more, unless you're that kind of
> obsessive compulsive personality like me.
I'm not neccessarily trying to be complusive (not that there's anything
WRONG with that ;), but I am trying to accumulate as much information as I
can as there are some people in my life that are not convinced that this WOE
is 'safe' or healthy.
TIA

--
AmyB
LC since 12/01/03
238/227/165
DJ Delorie - 21 Jan 2004 02:33 GMT
> I just noticed on Fitday, that the program does not count the
> calories included in the fiber that is listed as part of the carb.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> if not how would you suggest to use Jenny's formula to determine the
> calories: total carbs or net carbs?

In general, fiber doesn't count.  If it's included in the carb amount,
subtract it to get net carbs.  So, (16 - 4) * 4 = 48 (close enough).
Use net carbs for pretty much everything.

Actually, though, fiber has a calorie count of about 2kcal/g (it's
metabolized differently than sugars, though).  It really only matters
if you're eating a buttload (which it will be) of fiber.

> > You don't alway need to know more, unless you're that kind of
> > obsessive compulsive personality like me.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> information as I can as there are some people in my life that are
> not convinced that this WOE is 'safe' or healthy.

Just tell them you cut down on sweets, and are eating more lean meats
(er, or not if you're vegetarian) and green veggies.
Fran - 21 Jan 2004 15:04 GMT
>>I've also tried to figure out Jenny's protein calculator, and man it's tough
>>and believe it or not, I've got a B.S in Chem. with a minor in math.

It's also hard to know how much reliable it is, when the web page
includes blatant errors such as:
"Example: .36 * 150 lbs. gives a daily requirement of 54 gms for
muscle repair for the lady in our example."

Fran
Doug Freyburger - 21 Jan 2004 14:58 GMT
> > > > I am definitely losing weight without too much discomfort.
>
> > > So what's your problem?  ;-)
>
> No problem. ;-) just wanted to make sure I'm doing things right...

Even with success, it can be worth it to play optimization games.

> I take a break from the diet one day a week. This stops me from
> feeling too weird, keeps my energy up... I'm told it restores liver
> glycogen so that one can exercise more effectively.

In the long run it is much more effective to follow the core Atkins
process as it is written.  If you're on Atkins anyways!  The Atkins
process in OWL *WILL* stop you from feeling wierd by the end of the
second or third week, so by doing that cycling you are prolonging it
in an effort to fight it.  By fighting it you give it strength.  As
to glycogen and exercise, you need to invest the month it takes for
the body to adjust before you can get the benefit of added endurance.
In this too, your cycling is preventing that from happening and by
fighting the issue you make the problems stronger.  The way out is
through.

> Do you happen to know what the ideal intake of good fats is per day
> when on a ketogenic diet? (i.e., to stop the body from wanting to
> retain body fat?

Being in ketosis makes the body stop wanting to store new fat.  Simple
as that.  Once in ketosis the balance of hormones favors glucagon over
insulin and fat flows *out* of storage.  Once in ketosis it takes a
vast overdose of dietary fat to force it against the flow.  The one
example the Atkins Center has was a person who ate an entire stick of
butter each night as a snack in addition to the usual three digit Atkins
fat intake.  I'm certain you're not eating over a hundred extra grams
of fat, so that's not an issue for you.

For the ideal level of fat, it's in principle simple and in process
laborius.  It takes combining several guidelines from various sources.
I'll go over how to get the ideal levels for the various numbers and
then use myself as an example for the arithmatic.  Note well that when
discussing "ideal" any system that is one-size-fits-all should not be
considered at all if there is a custom-tuned process available.

Atkins supplied a process that custom tunes the ideal carb level for
each individual body, the CCLL, just below the level that knocks you
out of ketosis.  Eating carbs under the CCLL reduces T3 output and
leptin output and results in more stalls than at CCLL.  But Atkins
only gives you your ideal carb level so we must move on to other
sources.  My CCLL is 50, so that will be used in the arithmatic below.

Eades in Protein Power supplied a process that custom tunes the ideal
protein level for each individual body, the minimum to maintain lean
mass.  Any more than that and protein gets burned as fuel.  The trick
is it gets converted to glucose at somewhere around 40-50% efficiency.
Thus extra protein is at best just extra calories and at worst extra
carbs.  My minimum is 77 per the process in PP.

There is no similar custom tuned method for ideal fat intake that I
have ever found, so I will back into it using arthimatic.

There are several reasonable guidelines for calories going around.
Some use your current weight, some your lean mass, some your ideal
weight.  Think it over and pick one.  I chose ideal weight in pounds
times 10 to give daily calories.  Since my ideal weight is 170-175
(also discovered from the process in PP), my ideal calorie intake is
1700-1750 and in practice my calorie intake bounces wildly in any one
day but averaged across a week stays stable at 1800.

So let's do the arithmatic:

1800 minus 50 grams of carb, 200 calories, is 1600 remaining.
1600 minus 77 grams of protein, 308 calories, is 1292 remaining.
1292 calories from fat, divided by 9 per gram, is 143.5 grams of fat
daily.

That's the very best I can do to show you how to figure out your
ideal fat intake.  Being on the core Atkins plan finding your CCLL by
spending a week out of ketosis to find your ideal carb intake below
which stalls are more common, book number 1.  Following the strength
of the Eades plan to find your protein minimum and ideal weight, book
number 2.  Finding a good guide to calories to improve on the rough
guideline I suggested above, book number 3.  No book gives ideal fat
level so do the arithmatic above, still a total of 3 books.  To arrive
at the ideal it should come as no surprise that figuring out the ideal
should take more than one book.  Homework time, or put guesses in some
of the parts like I did to get an answer that is close to the ideal.

... Or just follow the guidelines of your selected plan and it will
work just fine.  Popular plans work; that's why they are popular.  But
for the *ideal* you need to use the stength of each and go to other
plans at the weak points.

Some comments on this:

It runs against intuition that more fat should result in more loss,
but it's true no matter that it is not obvious.  This is why low fat
plans average less loss than low carb plans.  There is real
biochemistry behind why more fat yields more loss just like there is
real biochemistry behind why more carbs yields more loss.
Withdrawing fat from storage requires the hormone glucagon in the
blood.  Eating carbs over your CCLL directlly causes insulin to
dominate and suppress glucagon on the one hand, and eating dietary fat
triggers a cascade of hormones that indirectly results in higher
glucagon on the other hand.  Reducing fat triggers starvation mode,
reduced glucagon, and less fat withdrawn from storage.  The rule that
eating more fat results in more loss is a metabolic loophole that
takes advantage of an evolutionairy mechanism that defends against
famines.

Of course it is possible to overwhelm this more-fat-eaten-more-fat-lost
trend with a vast overdose of fat, but following the guidelines above
will put you nowhere near that huge fat intake level.

My 77 and 143 levels are a bit much to maintain.  In practice I run
my protein level at least 100 and for the same total calories that
reduces my fat level.  But then I'm in maintenance so numbers for
optimal loss aren't important for me any more.  For the same total
calories, more fat and less protein gives better loss; for maintenance
for the same total calories, more protein less fat is easier to eat.
Frank - 21 Jan 2004 21:57 GMT
>>Frank wrote:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>>1292 calories from fat, divided by 9 per gram, is 143.5 grams of fat
>>daily.

Thanks for your reply. I started increasing my fat consumption today
(Dr Udo's oil) and wow! What a lot of energy all of a sudden! I found
myself down at the gym again doing a second 30mins of cardio! I burned
off 165 calories about an hour after taking two tablespoons of oil.

IIRC, dietary fat works something like a slow-release energy source,
doesn;t it? So I would hazard a guess that it's probably best to
consume most of one's daily dose of it fiorst thing in the morning.
Have any of the experts recommended this?

Just one thing... isn't a lot of dietary fat or oil supposed to be bad
for the liver?

Frank
DJ Delorie - 21 Jan 2004 22:13 GMT
> I burned off 165 calories about an hour after taking two tablespoons
> of oil.

2 tablespoons of vegetable oil is about 250 calories, though ;-)

> IIRC, dietary fat works something like a slow-release energy source,
> doesn;t it? So I would hazard a guess that it's probably best to
> consume most of one's daily dose of it fiorst thing in the morning.
> Have any of the experts recommended this?

It does, but it's still best to spread your calories evenly throughout
the day.  I lose the most when I spread them out to 5 mini-meals.

> Just one thing... isn't a lot of dietary fat or oil supposed to be bad
> for the liver?

I haven't heard that rumor before, nor can I imagine why it would be
true.
Frank - 22 Jan 2004 10:08 GMT
>>Frank32@nospam.net (Frank) writes:
>>> I burned off 165 calories about an hour after taking two tablespoons
>>> of oil.
>>
>>2 tablespoons of vegetable oil is about 250 calories, though ;-)

;-) True enough - but presumaby some of the cals I burned off would
have been body fat, yes?

>>but it's still best to spread your calories evenly throughout
>>the day.  I lose the most when I spread them out to 5 mini-meals.

Thanks for the tip. That's already my policy actually. I think it also
helps shrink the stomach, whci is good for me since most of my fat is
around the gut.

>>I haven't heard that rumor before, nor can I imagine why it would be
>>true.

Maybe it isn't; I only heard ot from a non-expert.

Frank
DJ Delorie - 22 Jan 2004 15:29 GMT
> >>2 tablespoons of vegetable oil is about 250 calories, though ;-)
>
> ;-) True enough - but presumaby some of the cals I burned off would
> have been body fat, yes?

You cannot assume that.  Dietary fat and stored fat are treated
exactly the same once they're in the bloodstream.  Plus, excess
dietary fat can be stored in fat cells quite easily.
DJ Delorie - 22 Jan 2004 15:31 GMT
> ;-) True enough - but presumaby some of the cals I burned off would
> have been body fat, yes?

One other thing: Some forms of exercise (i.e. higher intensity) cause
you to continue burning calories after you stop exercising.  If this
happens to you, you might eventually burn off the oil.  Also, for some
folks, exercise may be a more effective way of boosting your
metabolism in general than just dieting (dieting may cause metabolic
slowdown, whereas getting the same caloric deficit from exercise may
not).
Doug Freyburger - 22 Jan 2004 18:20 GMT
> > So let's do the arithmatic:
>
> IIRC, dietary fat works something like a slow-release energy source,
> doesn;t it?

Which is one way to say it increases BMR/RMR.  And increasing them
burns more calories for the same input calories, and thus increases
loss rate.  Good stuff.

> So I would hazard a guess that it's probably best to
> consume most of one's daily dose of it fiorst thing in the morning.

Most advice I've read is to spread out food across the day.  This
goes against the standard advice.

> Have any of the experts recommended this?

None that I've encountered.  There are few experts on amounts of
fat at all that I've ever found and that's why I had to work the
numbers the way I did.  I found experts on carbs, protein and total
calories but not fat.  That's why I had to back into fat amounts
by doing the arithmatic.  The fat experts I've read have been
expert at *types* of fat to eat, not amounts.

> Just one thing... isn't a lot of dietary fat or oil supposed to
> be bad for the liver?

Maybe among high carbers, but I've never heard about low carbers
with the issue.  The liver is the organ that converts one type of
fatty acid to another as far as I know, so it do work.

But should the sort of numbers I've suggested even *count* as high?
I do not discuss just randomly increasing fat intake willy-nilly.
I discuss maintaining a steady total calorie intake, and running
both carbs and protein towards minimum.  That's a higher fat
percentage, but since it isn't a high total calories calling it
high fat is a bit hooky.
Doug Freyburger - 21 Jan 2004 00:14 GMT
> Can someone clarify: I'm on a ketogenic diet to burn fat fast. Am I
> right in thinking that the darker my keto-sticks read, the more fat
> I'm burning? And am I right in thinking that if I minimise my dietary
> fat intake, then my body will be forced to burn more body fat?

Not really.  There is *very* little correlation between how dark the
tests are and how much fat you're burning after the end of Induction.
During Induction the tests are naturally darker, after Induction the
tests are naturally lighter.  That's the pattern across time and all
it means is the number of days has increased.

But there's a point that new folks generally miss: Folks trying to
make the sticks darker typically do so by decreasing their carbs
further and further towards zero because doing that makes intuitive
sense.  And they uniformly fail miserably in the attempt because
that's not how it works.

The sticks are very much like a pregnancy test.  There's little
benefit in being MORE pregnant when you already are.

If you really, seriously want to turn the sticks darker, in spite
of the fact that it has very little correlation with your loss rate,
eat more fat to do it.  If you eat so much fat that it forces new
fat into storage against the hormonal balance, the sticks will turn
very dark.
DigitalVinyl - 21 Jan 2004 03:13 GMT
>Can someone clarify: I'm on a ketogenic diet to burn fat fast. Am I
>right in thinking that the darker my keto-sticks read, the more fat
>I'm burning?
I think it means the more ketones that are presented (wasted) in your
urine. Ketones are what adipose (fat) tissue get converted to durign
ketosis. The stix means you have excess ketones that arent' being used
by the body and are wasted. However that doesn't have a realtion to
how much was burned in the body.

>And am I right in thinking that if I minimise my dietary
>fat intake, then my body will be forced to burn more body fat?
This is the exact opposite of what Atkins says in his book. He states
that the ratio of fat grams divided by carb grams should be high. The
higher the number the better ketosis is induced. TO cut fat means you
are attempting some kind of low-carb, low-fat diet, which isn't
atkins.

FAT does not make you FAT.

I'd suggest reading one of his books.

>Also: any tips on exercise while on this diet? What type of exercise
>burns the most fat? I'm a fit male aged 50. I'm currently doing 30
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Frank

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
RRzVRR - 22 Jan 2004 11:22 GMT
> Ketones are what adipose (fat) tissue get converted to durign
> ketosis. The stix means you have excess ketones that arent' being used
> by the body and are wasted. However that doesn't have a realtion to
> how much was burned in the body.

Just to make this clearer.  Ketones are the waste byproduct of FFA use
for fuel, and that fat can be from either stored FFA in your body or
from incoming dietary fat.

Signature

Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
 -Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:  http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2012 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.