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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / January 2004

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John - 20 Jan 2004 19:19 GMT
So should I limit my saturated fat calories to twenty percent of total
calories per day or not.  I am new and now I am really confused!
Ignoramus1390 - 20 Jan 2004 19:25 GMT
> So should I limit my saturated fat calories to twenty percent of total
> calories per day or not.  I am new and now I am really confused!

I am not sure about the exact number, but it is a good idea not to eat
too much of saturated fat. You can always replace some meat with fish
or nuts.

There is a lot of moderate quality evidence that saturated fats are
not healthful. There is a little bit of other evidence suggesting that
it may not be the case. Some contradictions there. As always, you have
to be careful. I don't think that pigging out on bacon is very
healthful, and you can eat low carb without abusing saturated fat.

i
223/174/180
Mirek Fidler - 20 Jan 2004 20:01 GMT
> So should I limit my saturated fat calories to twenty percent of total
> calories per day or not.  I am new and now I am really confused!

Meat (e.g. pork) contains 2:2:1
staturated:monunsaturated:polyunsaturated.

If you are expected to get ~50-60% of your caloric intake from fat (on
Atkins), eating meat alone will almost meet this 20% recommendation,
just add some olive oil and reduce butter (which is higher in saturated
fat, at around 60%).

My .02$...

Mirek
Doug Freyburger - 21 Jan 2004 00:07 GMT
> So should I limit my saturated fat calories to twenty percent of total
> calories per day or not.  I am new and now I am really confused!

Atkins has not changed.  It was the usual reporters not getting it
right, or doctors having no idea what they were talking aobut or
similar.  Even if they work at the Atkins Center that doesn't mean
they get to change the process.

On the other hand BostonKitty on the Escribe board pointed me to an
interesting study that implies if you fry up some bacon, you can lose
faster by draining off the bacon fat and replacing it with an equal
amount of nut oil.  This is consistant with Dr A's discussions of
"good fats" and "better fats".  Here's my take:

http://www.lowcarb.org/josh_yelon/topic3.html

There are 3 listed studies.  The second explains why the
fats Dr Atkins called "better" and "best" fats actually
lead to faster loss than the fats he called "good" fats.

> Animal and human studies show that polyunsaturated fatty
> acids (P) are oxidized more rapidly than saturated fatty
> acids (S).

Dr Atkins called polyunsaturated fats the "best fats".
He called them that partially because they are essential
where neither saturated nor monounsaturated fats are
essential.  Here's the other reason.  Calorie for calorie,
if you eat the best fats, you'll burn more fuel than if you
eat the good fats.  Burn more fuel, lose more weight.

> The study showed that a prolonged food intake of a diet
> with a high P/S ratio results in a relatively high RMR and
> DIT. These results indicate the importance of dietary lipid
> profile in the treatment of obesity.

On Atkins folks are typically told that if they cook a few
strips of bacon to have with their eggs in the morning that
they should use the bacon grease and not waste a drop.  It
turns out that if you pour off the bacon grease *and* replace
it with the same amount of polyunsaturated oil (nut oil),
you'll lose even better.

Here is the full text of the abstract.

The effect of fat composition of the diet on energy metabolism.
van Marken Lichtenbelt WD, Mensink RP, Westerterp KR. Department of
Human Biology University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands.
Medline record in process.
Ernahrungswiss 1997 Dec;36(4):303-305

Animal and human studies show that polyunsaturated fatty acids (P)
are oxidized more rapidly than saturated fatty acids (S). There
are indications that diets high in P/S ratio result in a relatively
high resting metabolic rate (RMR) and high diet induced
thermogenesis (DIT). However, studies with human subjects are
limited. The effect of dietary fatty acid composition on energy
metabolism was studied in 6 male subjects, age 25-48 y. Two diets
were supplied, each over a period of 14 days, in a randomized
crossover design with a washout period of 14 days. P/S ratios of
the diets were 0.19 and 1.67. On day 14, RMR was determined in
the morning in fasting state by means of indirect calorimetry
(ventilated hood), followed by a 4 hour measurement of the DIT
after consumption of a standardized meal of 3.3 MJ with the same
fatty acid composition as during the dietary period. The meal
contained 46, 37, and 17 % energy as fat, carbohydrate, and
protein, respectively. RMR after the period with the high P/S diet
was significantly higher than after the period of the low P/S diet.
The average difference (+/- SD) was 0.17 +/- 0.14 kJ/min or
3.6 +/- 2.7 % of RMR. The DIT was also higher in all subjects
during a breakfast with a high P/S ratio. The average difference
was 0.29 +/- 0.16 kJ/min, which is 22.1 +/- 12.6 % of DIT. The
study showed that a prolonged food intake of a diet with a high
P/S ratio results in a relatively high RMR and DIT. These results
indicate the importance of dietary lipid profile in the treatment
of obesity.

Comments: When you're sitting on the sofa, your body is using a
small amount of energy. Of course, it's burning fat to get that
energy. The rate at which it's burning fat is called your "resting
metabolic rate." These guys gave a group of 6 men a diet high in
saturated fat, then measured their resting metabolic rates. Then,
they switched them to unsaturated fat, and measured their resting
metabolic rates again. They discovered this: when they ate
unsaturated fat, their resting metabolic rate was higher. In
other words, they were burning fat faster when they were eating
unsaturated fat instead of saturated fat. This probably also meant
their energy levels were higher on unsaturated fat.
Marsha - 21 Jan 2004 01:25 GMT
> On the other hand BostonKitty on the Escribe board pointed me to an
> interesting study that implies if you fry up some bacon, you can lose
> faster by draining off the bacon fat and replacing it with an equal
> amount of nut oil.  This is consistant with Dr A's discussions of
> "good fats" and "better fats".

Peanut oil?  If so, I've got some of that and will try it.

Marsha/Ohio
Doug Freyburger - 21 Jan 2004 15:06 GMT
> > On the other hand BostonKitty on the Escribe board pointed me to an
> > interesting study that implies if you fry up some bacon, you can lose
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Peanut oil?  If so, I've got some of that and will try it.

PEAnuts are peas or beans not nuts, despite the fact that they have
both "pea" and "nut" in their name.  Pineapples are neither pine trees
nor apple fruit.  Buckwheat is neither a male deer nor a grain.  But
coconut is not a source of chocolate yet it *is* a nut and peanuts
are peas but not nuts.

But anyways, peanut oil has just fine polyunsaturated fat levels so
it should work fine.  Walnut oil, canola oil, you name it are all
even better choices than peanut oil.

Different fat, not less fat.  Very interesting.
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 21 Jan 2004 15:25 GMT
> > So should I limit my saturated fat calories to twenty percent of total
> > calories per day or not.  I am new and now I am really confused!
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> amount of nut oil.  This is consistant with Dr A's discussions of
> "good fats" and "better fats".  

better still, you could skip the bacon and eat a salad with a walnut oil
dressing.

sheesh.
Myway - 21 Jan 2004 16:50 GMT
> > > So should I limit my saturated fat calories to twenty percent of total
> > > calories per day or not.  I am new and now I am really confused!
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> sheesh.

Ya know Queen, sometimes you do make good sense.  <G>

Myway
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 21 Jan 2004 22:41 GMT
> > > > So should I limit my saturated fat calories to twenty percent of total
> > > > calories per day or not.  I am new and now I am really confused!
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Ya know Queen, sometimes you do make good sense.  <G>

mheh.  i try.
April Goodwin-Smith - 21 Jan 2004 21:32 GMT
<snip>
> > On the other hand BostonKitty on the Escribe board pointed
> > me to an interesting study that implies if you fry up some
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> better still, you could skip the bacon and eat a salad with
> a walnut oil dressing.  sheesh.

But we waaaants the bacon, preciousssss, yesss, we do.   :)

Okay.  Not every day, but a sprinkle of real bacon crumbles
on the walnut oil salad is very nice indeed.

April.
Put out the cat.
Signature

"Things that try to look like things often do look more
like things than things.  Well known fact."
Esmerelda Weatherwax  (Pratchett 1988)

The Queen of Cans and Jars - 21 Jan 2004 22:41 GMT
> <snip>
> > > On the other hand BostonKitty on the Escribe board pointed
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> But we waaaants the bacon, preciousssss, yesss, we do.   :)

yeah, so, if'n you want some bacon then you oughta eat it.  i have no
quarrel with the bacons, really i don't.  

but come on, people ... removing the fat from the bacon and then adding
some other kinda fat back in?  i'd love to say how insanely stupid i
find this idea, but words fail me.  

> Okay.  Not every day, but a sprinkle of real bacon crumbles
> on the walnut oil salad is very nice indeed.

indeed.  maybe with some diced avocado, even.
April Goodwin-Smith - 25 Jan 2004 00:43 GMT
> > > > On the other hand BostonKitty on the Escribe board
> > > > pointed me to an interesting study that implies if
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> then adding some other kinda fat back in?  i'd love to say
> how insanely stupid i find this idea, but words fail me.

There are lots of recipes that call for the bacon to be added,
fat and all, to moisten other ingredients.  However, the point
is: isn't it *amazing* that the fats behave differently from
each other in the human body?  Neato-keen stuff.

> > Okay.  Not every day, but a sprinkle of real bacon crumbles
> > on the walnut oil salad is very nice indeed.
> indeed.  maybe with some diced avocado, even.

And a small serving of toasted pecans.   :)

April.
Put out the cat.
Signature

"Things that try to look like things often do look more
like things than things.  Well known fact."
Esmerelda Weatherwax  (Pratchett 1988)

placidbull - 21 Jan 2004 02:07 GMT
I say don't worry about it. If you follow the plan as outlined in Dr. Atkins
book and record your food intake on www.fitday.com you will find that your
saturated fat intake will automatically stabilize at the 20% of total
caloric intake level.

Placid

> So should I limit my saturated fat calories to twenty percent of total
> calories per day or not.  I am new and now I am really confused!
 
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