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2LB. complainer again

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dot - 21 Jan 2004 19:15 GMT
I am one of those who has been complaining about only losing 2 lbs so far on
SBD and I am in a bit of a quandary here.  This Friday marks the end of
Phase 1 for both me and my hubby.  He wanted to lose 15 lbs and I 10.  I
lost the 2 lbs in the first few days and have stayed there ever since in
spite of trying everything I've seen recommended on this NG.  Hubby has lost
5 lbs and has been in a stall for 4-5 days now.  we have been following the
menu plan strictly and I know I haven't cheated and I don't believe hubby
has either.  In any event, neither of us has lost what we wanted and are
perplexed as what to do come this Friday when we are supposed to move on to
Phase 2.  In phase 2 when you begin to add more carbs to monitor yourself,
Dr. A says weight loss will slow.  I am afraid that moving on to phase 2 we
may even gain back the few precious pounds we have lost!  Sooooo I am
wondering should we stay on Phase 1 longer or move on?  We have no problem
staying in Phase 1 if others in our similar situation have found that to be
beneficial or if staying on phase 1 can be harmful especially since we are
talking vanity pounds here  (I hate that term) but we feel we do *NEED* to
lose these pounds.
TIA
dot
Ignoramus16608 - 21 Jan 2004 19:21 GMT
What is your current weight and height? What is your weight target?
Are you or your DH unusually muscular or big boned?

You alluded to "vanity pounds" etc, that's why I am asking.

When you are a basically healthy individual at normal weight, you have
to count calories in addition to more or less any diet plan... So, how
many calories per day have you been eating?

How are you exercising? Sorry if you mentioned something about that
already.

i
Dawn Taylor - 21 Jan 2004 22:31 GMT
>This Friday marks the end of
>Phase 1 for both me and my hubby.  He wanted to lose 15 lbs and I 10.

<snip>

>...  we are
>talking vanity pounds here  (I hate that term) but we feel we do *NEED* to
>lose these pounds.

I'm wondering why you're making yourself crazy over -- saying you NEED
to lose -- only 8 pounds. Are you trying to get a slot on the space
shuttle and there's a weight restriction? Are you both struggling in
your careers as jockeys or featherweight-division boxers?

Just curious. Because unless you're about three-and-half-feet tall,
eight pounds is -- literally -- nothing. You could fluctuate that much
in water weight and no one would notice the difference except you.

Dawn
dot - 21 Jan 2004 23:16 GMT
Perhaps you missed my original post explaining how very very small boned I
am.  8 pounds on me is like 20 pounds on someone else.  Some call this
vanity pounds but both my husband and I have been thin all our lives.  We
just want to get back to where we were.  I know there are folks here who are
struggling to lose much much more and for those I wish them success.  Our
needs must seem trivial to others here, but in any case they are truly our
needs and wishes and I think we are the best judges of that.  We went into
this low-carb idea thinking we would lose so much more in the initial phase
which has not happened even though we have followed the menu plan strictly.
I've seen posts here and elsewhere from those just wanting to lose 10-20
pounds for which this plan has NOT worked.  So I was inquiring as to how to
proceed for those that could offer support and/or advise.
dot

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 19:15:22 GMT, "dot" <dot@spam.com> announced in
front of God and everybody:

>This Friday marks the end of
>Phase 1 for both me and my hubby.  He wanted to lose 15 lbs and I 10.

<snip>

>...  we are
>talking vanity pounds here  (I hate that term) but we feel we do *NEED* to
>lose these pounds.

I'm wondering why you're making yourself crazy over -- saying you NEED
to lose -- only 8 pounds. Are you trying to get a slot on the space
shuttle and there's a weight restriction? Are you both struggling in
your careers as jockeys or featherweight-division boxers?

Just curious. Because unless you're about three-and-half-feet tall,
eight pounds is -- literally -- nothing. You could fluctuate that much
in water weight and no one would notice the difference except you.

Dawn
Dawn Taylor - 21 Jan 2004 23:25 GMT
>Perhaps you missed my original post explaining how very very small boned I
>am.  8 pounds on me is like 20 pounds on someone else.  Some call this
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>pounds for which this plan has NOT worked.  So I was inquiring as to how to
>proceed for those that could offer support and/or advise.

Well, there ya go.

Low carb isn't for everyone. Atkins' version was developed to help
seriously overweight people with health issues lose weight despite
being metabolically and/or insulin resistant. If you're small and
don't have much weight to lose, you could end up eating more calories
than you need and not losing weight on a low-carb diet.

Just because it's the popular diet-of-the-moment doesn't mean it'll
work for everyone. As you seem to have discovered.

Good luck,
Dawn
Ignoramus16608 - 22 Jan 2004 00:12 GMT
>>Perhaps you missed my original post explaining how very very small boned I
>>am.  8 pounds on me is like 20 pounds on someone else.  Some call this
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Just because it's the popular diet-of-the-moment doesn't mean it'll
> work for everyone. As you seem to have discovered.

Ditto. I suggested the same thing to "Anglea Wolcombe" who is trying
to thin down to BMI of 19.4. This diet is not for fit healthy people
trying to slim down a bit.

i
JC Der Koenig - 22 Jan 2004 04:03 GMT
> >>Perhaps you missed my original post explaining how very very small boned I
> >>am.  8 pounds on me is like 20 pounds on someone else.  Some call this
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> to thin down to BMI of 19.4. This diet is not for fit healthy people
> trying to slim down a bit.

Bull.

Boxers, wrestlers and weightlifters use a low carb diet to shed bodyfat even
though they are already fit healthy people. They also understand that
calories count.
Ignoramus31635 - 22 Jan 2004 15:02 GMT
>> In article <2e2u00l840q3bc0o64cthe6fs1hagj2erl@4ax.com>, Dawn Taylor
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> though they are already fit healthy people. They also understand that
> calories count.

The OP made no mention of calories.

i
JC Der Koenig - 23 Jan 2004 03:36 GMT
> >> In article <2e2u00l840q3bc0o64cthe6fs1hagj2erl@4ax.com>, Dawn Taylor
> > wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> The OP made no mention of calories.

"This diet is not for fit healthy people trying to slim down a bit."

True or not true?

Waffling is not low carb.
Roger Zoul - 23 Jan 2004 13:46 GMT
:: "Ignoramus31635" <ignoramus31635@NOSPAM.31635.invalid> wrote in
:: message news:buooll$uo9$3@pita.alt.net...
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
::
:: "This diet is not for fit healthy people trying to slim down a bit."

Gawd.....what a statement!

I think, starting January 2004 we should  start having IOMs, like over on
MWF.

I nominate Ig for ASDLC's first IOM!

Reason 1: "This diet is not for fit healthy people trying to slim down a
bit."

Reason 2: The "Antifreeze in the Armpit (and Crotch)" Thread

Go Ig!

---

Ig -- don't you realize that some people follow a LC woe as a way of eating
long term?  In the book Life Without Bread, those authors promote LC as a
standard eating plan -- irrespective of weight loss.  They site the numerous
means by which high insulin levels affect all kinds of other hormones within
the body.  They blame many different human ailments on excessive carb
intake. One of the authors as been treating his patients for years with LC
nutrition and presents lots of data to provide support for the claims made
within the book.  Little of it has been supported by other research,
however, but that doesn't mean the results are not valid.

You really should examine your notions about LCing.
Pat Paris - 23 Jan 2004 19:29 GMT
>I nominate Ig for ASDLC's first IOM!

Well, I only see Ig's articles when someone quotes them in replies,
but I wouldn't argue with you on this.  I was wondering though, do you
propose permanently retiring Mu/Chung from consideration?  You know,
kind of a lifetime achievement award.  I mean, this could get
repetitive rather quickly, otherwise.
Roger Zoul - 23 Jan 2004 23:25 GMT
:: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:46:30 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
:: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
:: know, kind of a lifetime achievement award.  I mean, this could get
:: repetitive rather quickly, otherwise.

Mu/Chung brings balance to the force (The LC force).  This balance keeps us
from thinking that LC is magic :)
Pat Paris - 24 Jan 2004 01:21 GMT
>:: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:46:30 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
>:: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Mu/Chung brings balance to the force (The LC force).  This balance keeps us
>from thinking that LC is magic :)

Is it true that Mu/Chung is really Steve's father?
JC Der Koenig - 24 Jan 2004 03:26 GMT
> :: "Ignoramus31635" <ignoramus31635@NOSPAM.31635.invalid> wrote in
> :: message news:buooll$uo9$3@pita.alt.net...
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
>
> Go Ig!

heh.

Ig has some strange ideas once in a while, but I wouldn't call him the worst
idiot that frequents this newsgroup.

PREESI?

Perhaps.

Mu/Chung?

Most definitely.
Roger Zoul - 22 Jan 2004 14:01 GMT
:: In article <2e2u00l840q3bc0o64cthe6fs1hagj2erl@4ax.com>, Dawn Taylor
:: wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
:: to thin down to BMI of 19.4. This diet is not for fit healthy people
:: trying to slim down a bit.

Bullshit.
dot - 22 Jan 2004 01:37 GMT
Thank you for your honest answer Dawn.  I am beginning to realize this
really might not be the way to go for me.  Although I so did want it to work
because I believe it is a healthier way to go than the usual starvation
diets.  Been there done that.
dot

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:16:12 GMT, "dot" <dot@spam.com> announced in
front of God and everybody:

>Perhaps you missed my original post explaining how very very small boned I
>am.  8 pounds on me is like 20 pounds on someone else.  Some call this
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>pounds for which this plan has NOT worked.  So I was inquiring as to how to
>proceed for those that could offer support and/or advise.

Well, there ya go.

Low carb isn't for everyone. Atkins' version was developed to help
seriously overweight people with health issues lose weight despite
being metabolically and/or insulin resistant. If you're small and
don't have much weight to lose, you could end up eating more calories
than you need and not losing weight on a low-carb diet.

Just because it's the popular diet-of-the-moment doesn't mean it'll
work for everyone. As you seem to have discovered.

Good luck,
Dawn
Luna - 22 Jan 2004 04:55 GMT
You don't have to do a starvation diet either. I see nothing wrong with
cutting out sugar and refined carbs like white bread and white pasta, for
anyone who wants to be healthier even if they don't need to lose weight.  I
lost weight before LC-ing it by replacing one of my pasta meals with a
large salad every day.  Granted, I didn't lose a lot, but I lost some.  If
you think your diet is already healthy, with a minimum of junk food, then
just try exercising a bit more.  If you already do a lot of cardio, try
adding weight training as well. If you're already doing both, just do some
more.  

> Thank you for your honest answer Dawn.  I am beginning to realize this
> really might not be the way to go for me.  Although I so did want it to work
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> Good luck,
> Dawn

Signature

Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Roger Zoul - 22 Jan 2004 14:03 GMT
:: Thank you for your honest answer Dawn.  I am beginning to realize
:: this really might not be the way to go for me.  Although I so did
:: want it to work because I believe it is a healthier way to go than
:: the usual starvation diets.  Been there done that.
:: dot

This plan may very well work for you if you realize that calories matter and
you can just cut the carbs and eat whatever else you want and lose weight.
Pay attention to calorie intake as well -- and get some regular exercsie (I
don't recall your OP -- sorry).

LC can work for you by simply making it easier for you to eat less.

::: Perhaps you missed my original post explaining how very very small
::: boned I am.  8 pounds on me is like 20 pounds on someone else.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
:: Good luck,
:: Dawn
Ignoramus16608 - 22 Jan 2004 00:11 GMT
> Perhaps you missed my original post explaining how very very small boned I
> am.  8 pounds on me is like 20 pounds on someone else.  Some call this
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Dawn

Don't low carb. Count calories and exercise and eat healthy. This diet
really is not for you.

i
Roger Zoul - 22 Jan 2004 14:04 GMT
:: In article <0LDPb.3257$uQ5.751@twister.socal.rr.com>, dot wrote:
::: Perhaps you missed my original post explaining how very very small
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
:: Don't low carb. Count calories and exercise and eat healthy. This
:: diet really is not for you.

You're a complete moron.
Ignoramus31635 - 22 Jan 2004 15:17 GMT
>:: In article <0LDPb.3257$uQ5.751@twister.socal.rr.com>, dot wrote:
>::: Perhaps you missed my original post explaining how very very small
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> You're a complete moron.

Well, mister genius, is that diet working well for the OP? No.

i
Roger Zoul - 22 Jan 2004 16:09 GMT
:: In article <buol9p$k7ucq$1@ID-166706.news.uni-berlin.de>, Roger Zoul
:: wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
::
:: Well, mister genius, is that diet working well for the OP? No.

And why this that, mister ignoramous?  She is not heavy and she losts 2 lbs.
She simply needs to adjust her expectations.  Not everyone can lose 8 to 12
lbs on SBD in two weeks.

:: i
Jean B. - 22 Jan 2004 02:06 GMT
> Perhaps you missed my original post explaining how very very small boned I
> am.  8 pounds on me is like 20 pounds on someone else.  Some call this
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> proceed for those that could offer support and/or advise.
> dot

With so little to lose, it is extremely unrealistic to expect to
lose that amount of weight immediately.  If you are patient and
work at it, it will happen.  

Signature

Jean B.

dot - 22 Jan 2004 02:10 GMT
Hi Jean B.
Thank you for your response.
So if you think I should stay the course do you think I should move to phase
II now or stay on phase I a while longer?
dot

dot wrote:

> Perhaps you missed my original post explaining how very very small boned I
> am.  8 pounds on me is like 20 pounds on someone else.  Some call this
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> proceed for those that could offer support and/or advise.
> dot

With so little to lose, it is extremely unrealistic to expect to
lose that amount of weight immediately.  If you are patient and
work at it, it will happen.

Signature

Jean B.

Ignoramus16608 - 22 Jan 2004 02:26 GMT
Can you try to eat 20% less calories and exercise for an hour a day,
and eat good food. Starvation diets are not the only alternative to low
carbing. Why such a hurry to lose weight, you can lose 8 lbs in 4
months instead of 2 weeks.

i

> Hi Jean B.
> Thank you for your response.
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> lose that amount of weight immediately.  If you are patient and
> work at it, it will happen.
Jean B. - 22 Jan 2004 12:25 GMT
> Can you try to eat 20% less calories and exercise for an hour a day,
> and eat good food. Starvation diets are not the only alternative to low
> carbing. Why such a hurry to lose weight, you can lose 8 lbs in 4
> months instead of 2 weeks.

She later posted she was eating less than 900 calories per day!

Signature

Jean B.

Ignoramus31635 - 22 Jan 2004 15:16 GMT
>> Can you try to eat 20% less calories and exercise for an hour a day,
>> and eat good food. Starvation diets are not the only alternative to low
>> carbing. Why such a hurry to lose weight, you can lose 8 lbs in 4
>> months instead of 2 weeks.
>>
> She later posted she was eating less than 900 calories per day!

Scary stuff, if true. 900 calories is equivalent to only about 3
ounces of butter. I suspect some miscalculation somewhere. Anyway,
some people do have "low metabolism", which can be determined by
taking body temperature reading in the morning. Low body temp = slow
metabolism. Such people need to eat a lot less, or exercise a lot more.

i
Roger Zoul - 22 Jan 2004 16:06 GMT
:: In article <400FC125.9D2F6760@rcn.com>, Jean B. wrote:
::: Ignoramus16608 wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
:: metabolism. Such people need to eat a lot less, or exercise a lot
:: more.

She didn't say that.  She said she was eating 12-1300 kcal per day.  Only on
one day did she mention eating around 900 kcals.

:: i
Jean B. - 22 Jan 2004 17:10 GMT
> She didn't say that.  She said she was eating 12-1300 kcal per day.  Only on
> one day did she mention eating around 900 kcals.

Guess I missed that.  :-(

Signature

Jean B.

Jean B. - 22 Jan 2004 12:18 GMT
> Hi Jean B.
> Thank you for your response.
> So if you think I should stay the course do you think I should move to phase
> II now or stay on phase I a while longer?
> dot

Having read you latest message re your calorie intake and your
situation re carbs, I have no idea what you should do.  Perhaps,
as Sue K. suggested, you are eating too little.  Sometimes that
causes us not to lose weight.  It sounds like you are going to
have to play with the variables, one at a time, keeping good
records of consumption and weight loss/stasis/gain, to see what
does or does not work for you.  But less does not necessarily lead
to the best results.  

Signature

Jean B.

Dawn Taylor - 22 Jan 2004 22:37 GMT
>Having read you latest message re your calorie intake and your
>situation re carbs, I have no idea what you should do.  Perhaps,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>does or does not work for you.  But less does not necessarily lead
>to the best results.  

It's also possible -- as I sirt of/kind of suggested earlier -- that
the OP doesn't need to lose any more weight, despite not seeing the
number on the scale that she wants to see. Deciding that on HAS to
lose 8 more pounds seems rather arbitrary -- especially if she's only
eating 900 cals. a day. It sounds an awful lot like she's where she
needs to be but just can't accept the number on the scale.

That's not necessarily the case ... but it's certainly a strong
possibility.

Dawn
Roger Zoul - 23 Jan 2004 01:24 GMT
:: On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:18:56 -0500, "Jean B." <jbxyz@rcn.com>
:: announced in front of God and everybody:
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
:: eating 900 cals. a day. It sounds an awful lot like she's where she
:: needs to be but just can't accept the number on the scale.

She said she eats 12-1300 kcal per day...it was just one day at 900 kcals.

I agree that losing 8 pounds might be arbitary, but it depends on her
height, etc.

:: That's not necessarily the case ... but it's certainly a strong
:: possibility.
::
:: Dawn
Roger Zoul - 22 Jan 2004 14:09 GMT
:: Hi Jean B.
:: Thank you for your response.
:: So if you think I should stay the course do you think I should move
:: to phase II now or stay on phase I a while longer?
:: dot

You can move to phase two.  However, I suggest you start counting calories
(in addition to carbs -- use fitday.com) and getting in regular exercise (if
you don't already).

Generally, one can use about 10xbodyweight as a place to start for weight
loss.  If you find that eating 10x bodyweight in calories is too much to
produce weight loss, move down to 9x.  Keep moving until you get weight
loss, but don't go below about 1200 cals per day.  If you're there already,
then you'll either have to increase exercise a lot, or just be pateint and
deal with slow weight loss.  I suggest continuing (or starting) a regular
exercise program and keeping on track with LCing (in phase two where you can
eat a larger variety of foods -- including plenty of non-starchy veggies).

:: "Jean B." <jbxyz@rcn.com> wrote in message
:::
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
:: --
:: Jean B.
billydee - 21 Jan 2004 23:43 GMT
> I am one of those who has been complaining about only losing 2 lbs so far on
> SBD and I am in a bit of a quandary here.  This Friday marks the end of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> TIA
> dot

Have you tried exercise in addition to your diet? Really though I can
lose and gain 2 pounds from day to day. Are you sure you are being
honest about how much you are eating? If so you may need to eat less.
Sounds like you are still eating maintenance calories if you are
making no progress at all.
dot - 22 Jan 2004 02:01 GMT
Yes, I am being honest about how much I am eating.  I even purchased the
fitday software so I could get a visual reading on everything I stick in my
mouth.  I read here somewhere that your calories should be approx. 10 times
your weight.  I am 5'4" and started at 130 and am now at 128 so I limit my
calories  to 12-1300 a day.  It's kinda hard to stay at 20g carbs and still
stay under the calorie restriction though.  If I eat more veggies seems the
carb count goes up according to the fitday software.    The only thing I can
think of is your point on exercising more.  Maybe an exercise DVD for days I
can't get outdoors.  But one would think that 12-1300 calories and 20-30g
carbs should at least do something for me.  I did go through a very rough
first week and I experienced every symptom described by others except
stomach cramps and it was for longer than the 2-3 days some others have
reported.   I FELT LIKE **IT!  I hardly got any exercise that week because
of it but got back on track this last week.  I felt like I went through such
a bad detox that maybe this was really going to work!  I've plugged into
fitday what I am going to have for dinner tonight and had all day, and I
have tried to cut down the cal but that upped my carbs.  If I don't blow it
tonight my total calorie intake for today will be 887.  Fat-54g, carbs-46,
fiber-13, net carbs-32.  (I don't know why fitday says 32 since 46 minus 13
is 33 but whatever)  I'll weigh myself tomorrow to see if cutting the cal
but increasing the carbs does any good.  But isn't the purpose of this diet
to be "LOW CARB"?!?!?!  Still trying to find my way.  I may just give this
up and go back to the starvation mode.
dot

> I am one of those who has been complaining about only losing 2 lbs so far on
> SBD and I am in a bit of a quandary here.  This Friday marks the end of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> TIA
> dot

Have you tried exercise in addition to your diet? Really though I can
lose and gain 2 pounds from day to day. Are you sure you are being
honest about how much you are eating? If so you may need to eat less.
Sounds like you are still eating maintenance calories if you are
making no progress at all.
sue kelso - 22 Jan 2004 02:09 GMT
If I don't blow it
> tonight my total calorie intake for today will be 887.  Fat-54g, carbs-46,
> fiber-13, net carbs-32.  (I don't know why fitday says 32 since 46 minus 13
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> up and go back to the starvation mode.
>  dot

IMHO, you are starving yourself.  Anyone needs at least 1200 calories a day
so your metabolism doesn't go into starvation mode.  Eat more.

sue k
dot - 22 Jan 2004 02:16 GMT
I really haven't gotten hungry at all on this diet.  The 1200 cal has been
plenty for me.  Today will be the first day I really cut the cals but I am
upping the carbs to see what happens tomorrow.  I don't really want to eat
more.  I'm scared I'm going to lose my two precious pounds I lost. lol
dot

If I don't blow it
> tonight my total calorie intake for today will be 887.  Fat-54g, carbs-46,
> fiber-13, net carbs-32.  (I don't know why fitday says 32 since 46 minus
13
> is 33 but whatever)  I'll weigh myself tomorrow to see if cutting the cal
> but increasing the carbs does any good.  But isn't the purpose of this
diet
> to be "LOW CARB"?!?!?!  Still trying to find my way.  I may just give this
> up and go back to the starvation mode.
>  dot

IMHO, you are starving yourself.  Anyone needs at least 1200 calories a day
so your metabolism doesn't go into starvation mode.  Eat more.

sue k
JC Der Koenig - 22 Jan 2004 04:10 GMT
>  If I don't blow it
> > tonight my total calorie intake for today will be 887.  Fat-54g, carbs-46,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> IMHO, you are starving yourself.  Anyone needs at least 1200 calories a day
> so your metabolism doesn't go into starvation mode.  Eat more.

That's just outright stupid.

Plenty of large male athletes have eaten less for extended periods of time
without ruining their metabolisms. Yet you believe that a fat dumpy hausfrau
needs more calories than a large male athlete so that she won't go into
"starvation mode". And for some reason you believe that 1200 calories is
some magic cutoff point.

Did I mention stupid?
Jeri - 22 Jan 2004 11:20 GMT
>>  If I don't blow it
>>> tonight my total calorie intake for today will be 887.  Fat-54g,
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Did I mention stupid?

While I do agree that there is no magic cut off point for starvation mode,
comparing athletes to 'fat dumpy hausfraus' is pointless. Athletes are most
likely under close medical supervision if they eat very low calorie for
extended periods of time. 'Fat dumpy hausfraus' for the most part are not.
JC Der Koenig - 22 Jan 2004 12:17 GMT
> >>  If I don't blow it
> >>> tonight my total calorie intake for today will be 887.  Fat-54g,
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> likely under close medical supervision if they eat very low calorie for
> extended periods of time. 'Fat dumpy hausfraus' for the most part are not.

Most amatuer athletes are not under any kind of medical supervision.  HTH
Ignoramus31635 - 22 Jan 2004 15:14 GMT
>> >>  If I don't blow it
>> >>> tonight my total calorie intake for today will be 887.  Fat-54g,
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Most amatuer athletes are not under any kind of medical supervision.  HTH

Not everyone is the same. I fast every Thursday and I am able to do
moderate weightlifting and 50 minutes of walking after 36-37 hours of
fasting. Some people report that they are not able to exercise if you
have not eaten in a few hours. I suppose that "starvation mode" is an
individual thing.

i
Susan - 22 Jan 2004 05:50 GMT
>IMHO, you are starving yourself.  Anyone needs at least 1200 calories a day
>so your metabolism doesn't go into starvation mode.  Eat more.
>
>sue k

No, everyone doesn't.  This someone needs to eat less than that to lose.

Starvation mode kicks in probably closer to 600-800 calories per day.  

Susan
Roger Zoul - 22 Jan 2004 14:14 GMT
:: x-no-archive: yes
::
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
::
:: Starvation mode kicks in probably closer to 600-800 calories per day.

Thing is, going anywhere near that to lose weight is extreme, in my opinion.
Doing extreme things is not likely to result in permanent weight loss.  So a
1200 kcal/day diet is suggested for supply adequate nutrition, not for
avioding starvation mode.

I think the OP would do well not to go below 1200 kcal/day.
JC Der Koenig - 23 Jan 2004 03:32 GMT
> :: x-no-archive: yes
> ::
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> I think the OP would do well not to go below 1200 kcal/day.

The only thing that results in  permanent weight loss is death. Fluctuations
are generally part of life.

"The only constant is mutability."

HTH
Roger Zoul - 23 Jan 2004 10:03 GMT
::: Susan  wrote:
::::: x-no-archive: yes
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
:: The only thing that results in  permanent weight loss is death.
:: Fluctuations are generally part of life.

True.  But when the calories get so low that one can't get adequate
nutrition, it's better to turn up the exercise.
Myway - 23 Jan 2004 10:54 GMT
> ::: Susan  wrote:
> ::::: x-no-archive: yes
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> True.  But when the calories get so low that one can't get adequate
> nutrition, it's better to turn up the exercise.

Exercise??  Horrors!  <g> People need to incorporate more exercice when
doing any type weight loss program. Even walking can get good results.

Myway
Roger Zoul - 23 Jan 2004 13:34 GMT
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
:: when doing any type weight loss program. Even walking can get good
:: results.

100%!
JC Der Koenig - 23 Jan 2004 12:16 GMT
> ::: Susan  wrote:
> ::::: x-no-archive: yes
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> True.  But when the calories get so low that one can't get adequate
> nutrition, it's better to turn up the exercise.

Agreed.
Jean B. - 22 Jan 2004 12:15 GMT
> Yes, I am being honest about how much I am eating.  I even purchased the
> fitday software so I could get a visual reading on everything I stick in my
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> > TIA
> > dot

Sounds like you are already in starvation mode.  If that's the
case, and you can't add any carbs without adding too many
calories, it would seem to point to another approach.  

Signature

Jean B.

PieNtheSky32 - 22 Jan 2004 00:04 GMT
So are you doing SB or Dr. A? Make up your mind.

> I am one of those who has been complaining about only losing 2 lbs so far on
> SBD and I am in a bit of a quandary here.  This Friday marks the end of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> TIA
> dot
Jeri - 22 Jan 2004 00:48 GMT
> So are you doing SB or Dr. A? Make up your mind.

South Beach was written by Dr. Agatston.
dot - 22 Jan 2004 01:34 GMT
My mind was never displaced in the matter Pie.  I meant Dr. A as in Agatston
of SBD fame.  But whether it be Atkins or Agatston  the principal in low
carbing is very similar so what difference does it make really?
dot

So are you doing SB or Dr. A? Make up your mind.

> I am one of those who has been complaining about only losing 2 lbs so far
on
> SBD and I am in a bit of a quandary here.  This Friday marks the end of
> Phase 1 for both me and my hubby.  He wanted to lose 15 lbs and I 10.  I
> lost the 2 lbs in the first few days and have stayed there ever since in
> spite of trying everything I've seen recommended on this NG.  Hubby has
lost
> 5 lbs and has been in a stall for 4-5 days now.  we have been following
the
> menu plan strictly and I know I haven't cheated and I don't believe hubby
> has either.  In any event, neither of us has lost what we wanted and are
> perplexed as what to do come this Friday when we are supposed to move on
to
> Phase 2.  In phase 2 when you begin to add more carbs to monitor yourself,
> Dr. A says weight loss will slow.  I am afraid that moving on to phase 2
we
> may even gain back the few precious pounds we have lost!  Sooooo I am
> wondering should we stay on Phase 1 longer or move on?  We have no problem
> staying in Phase 1 if others in our similar situation have found that to
be
> beneficial or if staying on phase 1 can be harmful especially since we are
> talking vanity pounds here  (I hate that term) but we feel we do *NEED* to
> lose these pounds.
> TIA
> dot
jpatti - 22 Jan 2004 12:39 GMT
If I were in your position, I'd give it another few weeks on phase 1.
I don't think you can say it isn't working for you this quickly.

You want to make sure you are getting enough protein for your needs,
limit the carbs, and if I were you, I'd aim for about 8-10 times your
weight in calories.  Don't go lower in calories than that or you'll
risk trashing your metabolism and end up gaining when you go on
mainenance.  Just experiment a bit in that range... try a week at 10x
and a week at 8x and see what works best (but you *can't* tell in just
a few days cause weight fluctuates over a few days).

BTW, I wasn't picking on *you* when I did the two lbs of butter post.
I've seen posts complaining about rate of loss for years in here.
Just occured to me suddenly what 2 lbs of fat actually looked like and
how *much* it was.  My loss hasn't been as speedy as I'd like either.
I lost 9 lbs the first two weeks and knowing that 5 lbs of that is
water, I probably only lost 2 lbs of fat/week.  Then the scale didn't
budge for most of the next week and finally another 1 lb loss showed
up yesterday.  The visual of what a couple pounds of fat actually
looks like was encouraging to me... I was hoping it'd be encouraging
for others too.

But scales are notoriously unreliable for measuring *fat* loss...
since water gain/loss can account for a few pounds itself and a gain
of muscle can mask a loss of fat.  How do your clothes fit?  Are you
looking better?  Are you feeling better?  These are good markers for
how it's going.

BTW, since the scale doesn't always move regularly for the above
reasons, a "stall" is not 4-5 days.  A stall is 4 or 5 weeks.  Rather,
experience in this newsgroup seems to imply that the scale doesn't
move for a while, then moves suddenly a few pounds at a time for the
above reasons.  Google "woosh fairy" for info... people post about
this often.

So... if I were you, I'd continue for another couple weeks, then
gradually increase the carbs and calories - you want to increase a bit
at a time until weight loss stops for a couple weeks, then you'll know
what you need to do for maintenance.  Then back off a bit if you
haven't lost all the weight you want to lose.

Also, those who have mentioned weight training are right-on, building
muscle mass is going to increase your metabolism for both weight loss
and maintenance.  Since you are at the "end" of your weight loss (in
comparison to most of us, who find the last ten pounds the hardest to
lose).

And make sure you're getting enough protein so you don't lose muscle
during the process... which will sabotage your maintenance since it'd
lower your metabolism as surely as a severly limited calorie count
could.

P.S. I haven't read SBD, but am assuming their phase 1 is similar to
Atkins induction (20 g carb per day) or Protein Power phase 1 (30 g
carb per day) carb per day.  Protein Power would've recommended you
start at phase 2, 55 g per day.  So I wouldn't sweat it if you're
eating a few extra carbs, you're definetly in ketosis and losing at 33
g, ya know?
Roger Zoul - 22 Jan 2004 14:16 GMT
:: My mind was never displaced in the matter Pie.  I meant Dr. A as in
:: Agatston of SBD fame.  But whether it be Atkins or Agatston  the
:: principal in low carbing is very similar so what difference does it
:: make really?
:: dot

Personally, I think Atkins would be a better plan -- and it sounds like
you're doing it already anyway.  The problem with SBD is that it is too
unstructured (imo) and I think you need more of that -- plus patience.
Jean B. - 22 Jan 2004 16:57 GMT
> Personally, I think Atkins would be a better plan -- and it sounds like
> you're doing it already anyway.  The problem with SBD is that it is too
> unstructured (imo) and I think you need more of that -- plus patience.

That is exactly why I stopped thinking in terms of SBD.  If I
could eat the things that are allowed on SBD in moderation, I
would not have become fat.  I need to have more control and
structure.
Signature

Jean B.

carla - 23 Jan 2004 04:11 GMT
> > Personally, I think Atkins would be a better plan -- and it sounds like
> > you're doing it already anyway.  The problem with SBD is that it is too
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> would not have become fat.  I need to have more control and
> structure.

What she said!   I had precisely the same reaction to South Beach.

carla
 
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