Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / January 2004
Treats you can eat on induction
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Dave Dumanis - 28 Jan 2004 00:21 GMT Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and three cups of salad greens.
That's it. Nothing else is allowed.
There have been a lot of questions along these lines lately. Somebody posted "why isn't induction working? After all, I'm eating ATKINS ice cream." Etc., etc., etc.
Please, people, read the book or at least study the Atkins website. Do not attempt to do this diet on your own.
There is a REASON why you're not allowed to have this stuff on induction.
Anyway, all the chicken, duck, turkey, beef, and ham you can eat should be enough of a treat for anybody.
dsr@Florence.edu - 28 Jan 2004 00:54 GMT >Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and three >cups of salad greens. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Anyway, all the chicken, duck, turkey, beef, and ham you can eat >should be enough of a treat for anybody. Is sugar free Jello forbidden on induction? Jello is low carb sweet treat that is not a trigger food for most people.
AmyB - 28 Jan 2004 00:57 GMT > >Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and three > >cups of salad greens. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Is sugar free Jello forbidden on induction? YES.
>Jello is low carb sweet > treat that is not a trigger food for most people. Please re-read OP.
-- AmyB LC since 12/01/03 238/225/165
B-D_ - 28 Jan 2004 01:53 GMT >> Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and >> three cups of salad greens. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Is sugar free Jello forbidden on induction? Jello is low carb sweet > treat that is not a trigger food for most people. You can eat anything you like, even sugar coated bananas, but be aware that most things not on the allowed list will trigger some-kind of "click" inside of your body, the body will figure out that you're trying to trick it trough induction into ketosis, and will start to work in every way possible to fight against you and your efforts.
Everything is possible but why climb a mountain barehanded to have an occasional "cheat snack" if you can just ride the helicopter and eat mayo-coated stakes with champignons, cheese and seasoning on the way up.
 Signature B-D_ Atkins since 11/24/03 199/183.3/165
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 28 Jan 2004 06:04 GMT > >> Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and > >> three cups of salad greens. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > You can eat anything you like not if you're trying to follow atkins' plan, which calls for two weeks of induction, which in turn calls for eating only foods on the induction list. it's not about eating anything you like. it's about following a set of rules.
Jo-Anne - 31 Jan 2004 12:31 GMT I've seen this too.. I think the key to induction is getting your body used to not having this crap.. I mean sweets particularly.. Now is the time to break the habit.. You are only setting your body up for disappointment if you don't follow it as closely as possible...I basically added some sweet things in once on induction.. Only sweetened with splenda and I made my own..\
Jo-Anne
> > >> Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and > > >> three cups of salad greens. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > list. it's not about eating anything you like. it's about following a > set of rules. DigitalVinyl - 31 Jan 2004 16:15 GMT >I've seen this too.. I think the key to induction is getting your body used >to not having this crap.. I mean sweets particularly.. Now is the time to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Jo-Anne I agree. I only ate one splenda-sweetened item and after 1/2 oz I didn't want anymore(tasted like crap). I also avoided coffee and tea, since I normally drink colas and iced teas daily. For me that first week was a definite purge of sweets, caffeine and the many chemicals and preservatives in all menufactured foods.
After 5 days, I stopped wanting soda/iced tea/orange juice/tomato juice/lemonade/milk. I don't even think about it now. And that is particularly *amazing* to me. I'd estimate that I drank 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon a day of sugar-waters. That's about 800-1200 calories a day. If I was on a calorie-restrictive diet I would still drink these some and I think that would make those diets hard, at least, for me. None is better than some.
DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
Diane Mancino - 28 Jan 2004 13:31 GMT Thank you for pointing this out- I see so many posts of people bending the rules on the Atkins plan, when they are very clear for induction. Part of the induction changes your body, but part is DISCIPLINE, changing the way you think about eating. If you follow the induction carefully, you will be building a good foundation for adding other foods later. You will be measuring your food, learning how much your favorite dish holds, becoming aware of everything you eat. Measure that portion then notice how big it is on your plate. I read a complaint here on 3 cups of packed salad greens being to little- gee it fills a pretty big plate! When your in an uncomfortable situation, like a restaurant, you will be more able to make the right choices and stick to the plan. I had to look at the lists of foods several times of day- just to make sure I was getting it right. Now, a baby OWL, I'm working on that ladder list of foods. Again facing a plate of food that was placed in front of me, like the other night, knowing what is ok to try without having my book with me.
As for the Jell-O, Its sugar free, but contains aspartaine, so use sparingly. I limited my sweeteners to 3 a day, and am still using as a treat. The Jell-O does make a nice dessert that you can whip sour cream or cream cheese in to- but again everything needs to be counted, and I needed those cheese cubes throughout the day those first 2 weeks.
One day I made a sweet omelet with sweetened cream cheese, Legal, but I was nuts looking for foods I could eat. On the other hand, I can eat bacon or cheese in the morning and walk right by the doughnut box at work.
 Signature Diane
I broke my nose this summer, 2 black eyes and I looked horrible. My Doctor just said, Keep busy! We are recovering and healing from being overweight, Keep busy! follow the plan and get on with living.
> >Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and three > >cups of salad greens. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Is sugar free Jello forbidden on induction? Jello is low carb sweet > treat that is not a trigger food for most people Doug Freyburger - 28 Jan 2004 20:47 GMT > > Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and three > > cups of salad greens. > > > That's it. Nothing else is allowed. That's not the real list. At least it should be more non-salad veggies.
> > There is a REASON why you're not allowed to have this stuff on > > induction. Right. And that makes it an excellent post even if it did have nit errors.
> > Anyway, all the chicken, duck, turkey, beef, and ham you can eat > > should be enough of a treat for anybody. Should is one of those words. Should is opinion. I happen to agree with this should, but no one is required to agree with this should.
> Is sugar free Jello forbidden on induction? Jello is low carb sweet > treat that is not a trigger food for most people. One of the bits Dave missed is there is a limit on one sweet-treat per day. Gelatin is a sweet-treat. But Jello brand in specific has aspartame which is forbidden during Induction and should be held off until later. So sugar-free Jello as a specific item is indeed forbidden during Induction. Look for other brands as some now use splenda. Or get Know unflavored gelatin, unsweetened Kool Aid and add 1-3 packets of splenda. There's a 3 packet limit on all artificial sweeteners so if you like sweetened decafe don't put in all 3.
glas - 28 Jan 2004 04:27 GMT > Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and three > cups of salad greens. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Anyway, all the chicken, duck, turkey, beef, and ham you can eat > should be enough of a treat for anybody. Well...I guess everyone is different. While I was on induction I ate plenty of the things you mentioned but I also ate broccoli, green beans, spinach, eggs, peanuts and small amounts of tomato, onion, bell pepper and cucumber in my salads. Worked out fine for me as I began losing weight almost immediately.
The most important thing is to keep the carb count low. I try to keep mine at 20 - 25 grams per day and the results were great.
chrissy
Roger Zoul - 28 Jan 2004 04:55 GMT ::: Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and three ::: cups of salad greens. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] :: bell pepper and cucumber in my salads. Worked out fine for me as I :: began losing weight almost immediately. You weren't on induction.
:: The most important thing is to keep the carb count low. I try to :: keep mine at 20 - 25 grams per day and the results were great. That great -- but keep carbs at over 20 g per day is NOT induction. It's LC, but not induction. Eating off plan foods is not induction, either. It not being induction doesn't mean you won't make progress, BTW.
glas - 28 Jan 2004 13:32 GMT > ::: Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and three > ::: cups of salad greens. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > You weren't on induction. Yes, I was. I think that perhaps you ought to check out your Atkins list of approved foods for induction which you can find here - http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/12/15-464579.html as all of these foods, except the green beans and bell pepper (which I limit to very tiny portions, more as a spice than anything else) are approved for induction.
> :: The most important thing is to keep the carb count low. I try to > :: keep mine at 20 - 25 grams per day and the results were great. > > That great -- but keep carbs at over 20 g per day is NOT induction. It's LC, > but not induction. Eating off plan foods is not induction, either. It not > being induction doesn't mean you won't make progress, BTW. Before starting induction I read the book from cover to cover. I proceeded to eat like a pig and yet found myself in ketosis in only a matter of days. I succeeded on the diet and lost 70 pounds and supported several of my friends, my sister and mother as they worked this WOE so I think, perhaps, that I know what I'm talking about BTW.
chrissy
Roger Zoul - 28 Jan 2004 15:16 GMT ::: glas wrote: :::::: Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] :: tiny portions, more as a spice than anything else) are approved for :: induction. Are peanuts on that list?
::::: The most important thing is to keep the carb count low. I try to ::::: keep mine at 20 - 25 grams per day and the results were great. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] :: :: chrissy Still, you didn't do induction with peanuts and 25 g of carb per day. That's not induction, even though it worked. It's very easy to roll your own LC diet.
DigitalVinyl - 28 Jan 2004 20:47 GMT >Still, you didn't do induction with peanuts and 25 g of carb per day. >That's not induction, even though it worked. It's very easy to roll your >own LC diet. Induction, has a very specific meaning, but it is not essential. You could acheive similar results at 25g or 30g. Likely you would drop the glycogen stores slower and weight loss would be less dramatic. Both are bad, since it lengthens the withdrawl period and doesn't necessarily give you that really encouraging weight loss in the start. This part is psychological as well as physical.
The purpose of Atkin's Induction is not merely to acheive ketosis. You achieve some ketosis at any level significantly below your CCLL which can be 50g for some people.
Atkins set the 20g and the list for broad success and simplicity. At 20 g *MOST* people will enter ketosis, but some may require 15 or less! (ouch). The list of foods avoid sugar-added foods, to help break sugar addictions as well as make it easier to acheive the under 20g number. His 3 cups of veggies curbs your carb intake even if you aren't counting. However certain cheese (American cheese can be 2g per slice) product are bad, but not specifically banned. Deli meats are a grey area since you don't get to see the USDA numbers of freshly sliced products. Not counting carbs can result in trip ups, since so much food today has something added to make it more appealing.
I do agree that a relaxed-induction level is definitely following Atkin's theories but for some people it would result in very disappointing failure and likely they would give up. Hence why he choose 20g. He also has a chapter in the book dedicated to people who can't even loose weight at 20g.
DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
glas - 29 Jan 2004 01:15 GMT > >Still, you didn't do induction with peanuts and 25 g of carb per day. > >That's not induction, even though it worked. It's very easy to roll your [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email) Thank you. This is what I have been trying to say but you managed to do it much better than I did. I distinctly recall a very interesting discussion in this very newsgroup several years ago regarding the 20gram carb limit. It is the goal for induction but certainly not a set amount that means if you go over you are not in induction.
chrissy
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 28 Jan 2004 15:37 GMT > > :: Well...I guess everyone is different. While I was on induction I ate > > :: plenty of the things you mentioned but I also ate broccoli, green [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > except the green beans and bell pepper (which I limit to very tiny portions, > more as a spice than anything else) are approved for induction. peanuts? no. not on the list.
it's no crime to have not been on induction. you lost weight, so what's the difference?
glas - 28 Jan 2004 16:13 GMT > > > :: Well...I guess everyone is different. While I was on induction I ate > > > :: plenty of the things you mentioned but I also ate broccoli, green [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > it's no crime to have not been on induction. you lost weight, so what's > the difference? Excuse me, I made a mistake about the peanuts. I did not eat them until after induction. However, I certainly was on induction and resent anyone trying to tell me what my body was doing. The rest of my foods were fine for induction, obviously, or I wouldn't have acheived ketosis to the degree that induction was designed to produce.
chrissy
Roger Zoul - 28 Jan 2004 18:29 GMT ::: glas <glas@core.NOWAYcom> wrote: ::: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] :: acheived ketosis to the degree that induction was designed to :: produce. Chill out.
Remember -- here anyone can read what you write -- and you said you ate peanuts. If you did, that's not induction. Plain and simple. No one can read your mind.
Now, where do you see anyone telling you what your body was doing? You lost weight -- that's good. So, now we find that you didn't eat peanuts, so that brings you closer to doing induction. But because you lost weight, it doesn't matter a hill of beans whether you did induction or not {there is nothing magical about induction}. But, you don't want to suggest people to eat peanuts on induction, since that's not induction. That doesn't mean you can't eat peanuts and be successful on a LC diet. Many people do that.
I suggest you to pay attention to what people are saying to you rather than simply reacting. If you simply react, you won't survive here for long.
glas - 29 Jan 2004 02:33 GMT > ::: glas <glas@core.NOWAYcom> wrote: > ::: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > peanuts. If you did, that's not induction. Plain and simple. No one can > read your mind. I'm unsure that you are clear on what induction is.
> Now, where do you see anyone telling you what your body was doing? By telling me that I was not on induction, that is telling me what my body was doing. My body certainly WAS going through induction.
You lost
> weight -- that's good. So, now we find that you didn't eat peanuts, so that > brings you closer to doing induction. But because you lost weight, it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I suggest you to pay attention to what people are saying to you rather than > simply reacting. If you simply react, you won't survive here for long. Take your own advice. I am reacting because I am concerned about the spreading of incorrect information but I am not overreacting as you are trying to imply. Do not confuse long-windedness with over reaction. I am very passionate about this WOE because I know that it works.
This is what Dr. Atkins promised me would happen if I followed his plans - ketosis resulting in weight loss, control of my diabetes, increased energy level, loss of appetite.
Hmmmm...let's see...
I achieved ketosis within one week of starting induction.
I brought my diabetes under control to the extent that my doctor said it was as if I didn't even have diabetes.
My energy level increased a hundredfold and my appetite decreased dramatically as well. I leapt out of bed every morning as soon as the sun was up and felt like a kid. I began riding my bicycle 10 miles a day, went canoeing on the weekends and began hiking. My house was cleaner than it had ever been, I dug up half my yard gardening till my neighbors thought I was nuts.
I also lost 70 pounds in a little under 9 months.
Dr. Atkins assured me that I would achieve these goals if I followed his plan. I did and was rewarded with just the benefits promised. I've tried other diets and none of them did any of this.
I worked in an office with 300 other people and low-carb was beginning to gain popularity at that time and many of the other overweight people in our office were trying it. Quite a few were under the mistaken impression, no doubt advised by someone similar to the original poster, that they could only eat meat, meat, meat and plain salad greens. There was no way they were going to hold out for even two weeks on this fare alone. I re-educated them and they took my advice because they could see that it was working for me and began seeing results for themselves.
I am confident in my understanding of the diet plan although not so sure of yours.
I also fail to understand why you are so concerned with picking this issue of whether or not *I* was on induction to pieces rather than the mis-information of the original post. Not only was the poster wrong but he offered a very bleak conception of what had to be done to begin this WOE and that is doing more harm than good.
chrissy
Roger Zoul - 29 Jan 2004 04:27 GMT ::: glas wrote: ::::: "The Queen of Cans and Jars" <dhrravr@ohatzhapu.bet> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] :: By telling me that I was not on induction, that is telling me what :: my body was doing. My body certainly WAS going through induction. Sorry...If you ate peanuts and 25g of carbs per day, you were not doing Dr. A's induction.
:: You lost ::: weight -- that's good. So, now we find that you didn't eat peanuts, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] :: reaction. I am very passionate about this WOE because I know that it :: works. So? I'm passionate too and that why I'm in this thread. Proves little.
:: This is what Dr. Atkins promised me would happen if I followed his :: plans - ketosis resulting in weight loss, control of my diabetes, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] :: his plan. I did and was rewarded with just the benefits promised. :: I've tried other diets and none of them did any of this. That's all wonderful. I can make very similar statements, too, as can many others. But for this discussion, all of that is besides the poin.
:: I worked in an office with 300 other people and low-carb was :: beginning to gain popularity at that time and many of the other :: overweight people in our office were trying it. Quite a few were :: under the mistaken impression, no doubt advised by someone similar :: to the original poster, that they could only eat meat, meat, meat :: and plain salad greens. I've heard that tale countless times....but it has nothing to do with this....
There was no way they were going to hold out
:: for even two weeks on this fare alone. I re-educated them and they :: took my advice because they could see that it was working for me and :: began seeing results for themselves. :: :: I am confident in my understanding of the diet plan although not so :: sure of yours. You don't know what Dr. A's rules of induction are, apparently. Or, you won't admit you didn't follow them, or something.
:: I also fail to understand why you are so concerned with picking this :: issue of whether or not *I* was on induction to pieces rather than :: the mis-information of the original post. You did that, then provided some of your own.
Not only was the poster
:: wrong but he offered a very bleak conception of what had to be done :: to begin this WOE and that is doing more harm than good. And you addressed it...
:: chrissy The Queen of Cans and Jars - 28 Jan 2004 22:22 GMT > > > > :: Well...I guess everyone is different. While I was on induction I > ate [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > induction, obviously, or I wouldn't have acheived ketosis to the degree that > induction was designed to produce. i don't care what your body was doing. you miss the point. if you didn't follow the rules of induction, and if you ate foods that are not on the list, you didn't do induction. you did something else, and you lost weight and that's just super-f.cking-terrific - seriously. you succeeded, and no one's trying to take that away from you. but you didn't do induction. it's possible to achieve ketosis without following the rules of induction, and it's possible to lose weight without ever being in ketosis.
glas - 29 Jan 2004 00:07 GMT > > > > > :: Well...I guess everyone is different. While I was on induction I > > ate [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > the rules of induction, and it's possible to lose weight without ever > being in ketosis. I really fail to understand why you have such a stake in proving that I am NOT following the diet. All of the foods that I ate were on the list of approved foods for induction. I acheived ketosis in less than a week which is what induction does.
Why are you not interested in dispelling the mis-information that was given by the original poster? I will quote the sections of the book if you really insist in being this pig-headed. To limit one's foods to only meats and 4 ounces of cheese a day is wrong - wrong - wrong. It's not what Dr. Atkins advocates in his book, and it's not what people should do when they are trying to get started on this diet.
The reason I care is because I have seen numerous people that were ready to give up because they have followed poor advice like that given above. Nobody wants to eat boring old greens and plain meat every day, every meal and they can't stick it out that way. They end up quitting and missing the benifits that could be enjoyed by following this WOE.
RULES OF INDUCTION #3
Eat no more than 20 grams a day of carbohydrate, most of which must come in the form of salad greens and other vegetables. You can eat approximately three loosely packed cups of salad, or two cups of salad plus one cup of other vegetables (see Acceptable Foods).
Note that it clearly states *other vegetables*
ACCEPTABLE FOODS
Vegetables You can have two to three cups per day of:
alfalfa sprouts daikon mushrooms arugula endive parsley bok choy escarole peppers celery fennel radicchio chicory jicama radishes chives lettuce romaine lettuce cucumber m?che sorrel
These salad vegetables are high in phytonutrients and provide a good source of fiber.
Other Vegetables
You can have one cup per day of these veggies if salad does not exceed two cups. The following vegetables are slightly higher in carbohydrate content than the salad vegetables:
artichoke celery root pumpkin artichoke hearts rhubarb asparagus chard sauerkraut bamboo shoots collard greens scallions dandelion snow peas bean sprouts dandelion greens spaghetti squash beet greens eggplant spinach broccoli hearts of palm string or wax beans broccoli rabe kale summer squash brussels kohlrabi tomato bean sprouts leeks turnips cabbage okra water chestnuts cauliflower onion zucchini
I see on this list SPINACH, BROCCOLI, ONIONS, TOMATO, PEPPERS. This is taken straight off the Atkins website itself as ACCEPTABLE FOODS FOR INDUCTION. If I garnish my salad with a bit of tomato, some peppers, and onion or if I eat a serving of broccoli or spinach with my meal then I am still following induction rules to the letter.
Sheesh.
chrissy
Roger Zoul - 29 Jan 2004 00:35 GMT ::: glas <glas@core.NOWAYcom> wrote: ::: [quoted text clipped - 150 lines] :: peppers, and onion or if I eat a serving of broccoli or spinach with :: my meal then I am still following induction rules to the letter. 1) you said you ate peanuts. 2) you said you kept your carb counts between 20 and 25g per day.
That's what you said. Those are the points of the discussion. However, you are so pigheaded as to not even listen. Someone reading your post will also come away with mis-information.
Deal with it.
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 29 Jan 2004 03:30 GMT > I really fail to understand why you have such a stake in proving that I am > NOT following the diet. i'm easily amused.
ConnieG999 - 28 Jan 2004 04:47 GMT >Meat, seafood, poultry, fish, four ounces of cheese a day, and three >cups of salad greens. > >That's it. Nothing else is allowed. Wrong, wrong, wrong. That is vastly oversimplified and incomplete. I urge you to take another look at the Induction list of foods. If you don't have the book, here's the site:
http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/12/15-464579.html
However, your point is well taken and correct - induction is strict for a reason.
Connie ***************************************************** My mind is like a steel...um, whatchamacallit.
J - 28 Jan 2004 11:42 GMT i eat whatever the hell i want on induction. even pizza with crust
Roger Zoul - 28 Jan 2004 15:16 GMT :: i eat whatever the hell i want on induction. :: even pizza with crust No you didn't either.
Jean B. - 28 Jan 2004 17:16 GMT > i eat whatever the hell i want on induction. > even pizza with crust Well, then it isn't induction, which refers specifically to Atkins' formula. It may achieve the same purpose, however.
 Signature Jean B.
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