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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / March 2004

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Depression and low carbing

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Evelyn Ruut - 04 Mar 2004 13:24 GMT
Someone here mentioned depression as a side effect of low carbing.

Does anyone have any more information on it?

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Evelyn

(To reply to me personally, remove sox)

Kaye - 04 Mar 2004 15:53 GMT
Hello Evelyn

I remember reading something about it in a paper a couple of days ago.
Although I think it's another opportunity for the press to poo poo lo carb.

In my opinion (for what that counts), not having insulin spikes and not
having your blood sugar levels go up and down would be preferable.  I work
with two diabetics, and when they have a "hypo" they are no fun to be
around.

For me, yes when I go off plan and go back to induction I am not in a
wonderful mood because I am in the process of getting back to ketosis.  They
might be talking about the few days that it takes you to use up all of the
gylcogen that you have stored.

Kaye
Jenny - 04 Mar 2004 16:11 GMT
Evelyn,

Anecdotally, I have run into depression only twice while low carbing.

The first time was when, after three years of low carbing, I developed a
problem of developing low blood sugars all the time. This caused my mental
performance to deteriorate significantly (I failed a piece of the
Alzheimer's screening test, but fortunately, since they had taken a blood
sugar at the same time which showed a low blood sugar, I was told that low
blood sugar is one of the few other things that can cause problems on that
test.)

I went off low carb for a year and my mood turned up very quickly and my
mental performance improved tremendously. (Since I write for a living, I can
really see signs of mental deterioration very quickly as it will become hard
to think of words. )

When I started low carbing, I monitored for low blood sugar and took steps
to correct it (which I hadn't known enough to do the first time.) I also cut
way back on protein. Twelve ounce steaks will  turn into enough carb in my
body to cause reactive lows.

The second time I experienced low carb-related depression was this past
January after three months of eating a soy-based low carb cereal every day.
I got extremely depressed, sluggish and exhausted, and kept getting intense
hot flashes and periods of extreme cold. I realized eventually that the soy
was the problem and speculate that it was putting pressure on my thyroid and
messing up other hormones. Soy is known to mess up the thyroid and to block
estrogen receptors.

When I stopped the soy cereal the symptoms gradually lifted.  I'm back to
being my usual cheery self.

-- Jenny  - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.2.
Cut the carbs to respond to my  email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes,
strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit  http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

> Someone here mentioned depression as a side effect of low carbing.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> (To reply to me personally, remove sox)
kc - 04 Mar 2004 18:40 GMT
> Someone here mentioned depression as a side effect of low carbing.
>
> Does anyone have any more information on it?

personal experience only...

i've suffered from depression for years, and if anything, LCing seems to
help keep my moods more stable, and my energy is higher which also helps.

note:  i have been on antidepressant medication during this time, and i
noticed the above improvement without any medication changes

-kelly
rosie - 05 Mar 2004 17:20 GMT
> i've suffered from depression for years, and if anything, LCing seems to
> help keep my moods more stable, and my energy is higher which also helps.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> -kelly

my experience is the same as kelly's!
Paper - 04 Mar 2004 19:45 GMT
>Someone here mentioned depression as a side effect of low carbing.
>
>Does anyone have any more information on it?

I just read about this. I have no clue where. I didn't pay it much
heed because my depression is exacerbated by carbs. It had something
to do with serotonin levels being depressed by low-carbing.

Paper

If it's not one thing - it's your mother.
225/224/150
jpatti - 05 Mar 2004 11:50 GMT
> >Someone here mentioned depression as a side effect of low carbing.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> heed because my depression is exacerbated by carbs. It had something
> to do with serotonin levels being depressed by low-carbing.

Something like that.  

Carbs temporarily increase serotonin levels, which is why depressed
people tend to want to eat a pile of pasta or an entire pizza or such.

But it's a temporary effect and you need continued "treatment" - to
treat depression with carbs is to become huge and have something else
to be depressed about.

Serotonin is not the *only* biochemical measure of depresison though,
blood sugar is as well.  Both high and low blood pressure can feel
like depression, irritability, and such.  Most people feel so much
better one their blood sugar is stabilized that it feels like low-carb
relieves depression.

For those few that feel more depressed on low-carb, supplementing with
5-HTP is a good idea.

5-HTP naturally boosts serotonin levels.  When I say "natural" I don't
mean because it's an herbal extract.  St. John's Wort is also an
herbal extract, but acts just like lab-created SSRIs.  SSRIs have
systemic effects, which is why all of them have side effects.  5-HTP
is a precursor to serotonin production, it doesn't effect reuptake,
but allows your own system to make as much serotonin as necessary.  It
doesn't have systemic effects and is therefore likely much safer than
any of the SSRIs and also more likely to help all people with
serotonin problems, unlike SSRIs which only help a small proportion of
people (which is why there's so many of them developed).
Carmen - 05 Mar 2004 15:05 GMT
> For those few that feel more depressed on low-carb, supplementing
> with 5-HTP is a good idea.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> serotonin problems, unlike SSRIs which only help a small proportion
> of people (which is why there's so many of them developed).

I'd have to respectfully disagree.  5-HTP affects serotonin production
and as such cannot help but have systemic effects, since the brain
isn't the only tissue that has serotonin receptors.  There are a
number of potential side effects for 5-HTP, like nausea, vomiting and
sexual side effects.  Those are side effects it shares with SSRIs in
fact.  It's not recommended for people with a number of medical
conditions either:
http://www.raysahelian.com/5-htp.html
http://community.healthgate.com/GetContent.asp?siteid=iHerb&docid=/tnp/pg000141

5-HTP may be a good choice for people but it's got to be a well
informed choice since it's still a drug.

Take care,
Carmen
Doug Freyburger - 04 Mar 2004 22:53 GMT
> Someone here mentioned depression as a side effect of low carbing.
> Does anyone have any more information on it?

The theory of it revolves around the hormones seratonin and melatonin.
If you keep your carb intake too low for too long the body reacts by
reducing the output of T3 thyroid (week 3), leptin (month 6+), and
eventually seratonin and melatonin.  The theory has 2 problems:

1) Induction is the only phase that's low enough to cause any of these
hormonal issues and on the core Atkins plan it only lasts 14 day.
Conveniently matched to the week-3 thyroid deal above.  As long as you
actually follow the plan you never get any of the claimed problems.

But so many folks think Induction is all there is to Atkins, that
everyone stays on Induction forever, and no one actually follows the
directions.  So bad claims aobut Atkins are based on staying very low
very low, which isn't what Atkins is supposed to be.

2) Eating grains cause FAR more depression than keeping your carbs
low, and so does over eating carbs.  While it's true that abusing
Induction can trigger depression, the chances are several to one that
it will in fact cure depression not cause it.  So the odds are stacked
in the At-kids favor and the depression mongers are ignoring that half
of the equation.
Jean Staffen - 05 Mar 2004 01:19 GMT
Remember the "Sugar Blues" line of investigation that came out a few years
back?

> > Someone here mentioned depression as a side effect of low carbing.
> > Does anyone have any more information on it?
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> in the At-kids favor and the depression mongers are ignoring that half
> of the equation.
Evelyn Ruut - 06 Mar 2004 00:05 GMT
> > Someone here mentioned depression as a side effect of low carbing.
> > Does anyone have any more information on it?
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> in the At-kids favor and the depression mongers are ignoring that half
> of the equation.

Thanks Doug....
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Evelyn

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DG511 - 06 Mar 2004 18:58 GMT
I'm finding myself on a more even keel since low-carbing, but I have two
comments on what's been said so far.

Be very careful about taking St. John's Wort if you are also taking other
medications.  The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine
sponsored a large trial and found that SJW can interfere with the absorption of
medications.  Otherwise, I don't know of a reason to avoid it.

Also, some people get an equivalent to the carb-uplift from dairy products.
The amino acid L-Tyrosine is possibly the reason, and you can get that at
vitamin stores.  I find that 3 capsules will take the edge off garden-variety
blues.

Daria
166/151/140
sugar-free since 2/1/04
low-carb since 2/17/04
Piedlourde - 05 Mar 2004 04:08 GMT
My depression (which is controlled with Effexor) has gone way down since I
started Atkins. I don't know how much of it is purely the effects of "I'm
finally doing something good for myself" or what, but it is what it is. :)

Piedlourde
curious - 05 Mar 2004 14:58 GMT
I mentioned the other day that I thought that they should prescribe LC eating for depression before they prescribe pills. I think that it helps to eat this way.  At least it has for me. PMS is waaaay down and much more under control at all times.  

I've found the opposite effect....LC helps, not hinders. I'm sure it has to do with the swings of sugars in my system.  I didn't know "why" before, though, and don't know "entirely" why now...I can just see a more even keel.

Becky P.
Debbie Cusick - 05 Mar 2004 15:19 GMT
Sorry, my experience is strictly anecdotal but for me LC really helps keep
depression at bay. I'm much more even-tempered and cheerful. When I
introduce carbs - particularly grains and sugars - I get majorly depressed.

Debbie

> Someone here mentioned depression as a side effect of low carbing.
>
> Does anyone have any more information on it?
 
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