Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / March 2004
last one for j.c.
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katie k - 07 Mar 2004 22:17 GMT You think G-d doesn't care about you? In a way, enormously depressing. "I am alone and unloved in an uncaring world. There is not even an all-compassionate Deity to fall back upon. But then again, it lifts a great burden off my shoulders. The great inner turmoil which is the fate of conscientious man is removed from me. There is no struggle physical versus spiritual, selfishness versus selflessness.
If G-d doesn't care about me, He certainly doesn't care what I do. And so, there is no reason to struggle with myself or to repress any of my basest desires. Nobody cares what I do -- so why not do it? There is no fancy or indulgence I must repress -- save at most that which my fellow or society will not allow." (But then again, look at all those gay marriage licenses being given out today. Society itself frowns on practically nothing.)
Thus, in a way, we would just love to believe G-d has forgotten about us or given up on us. Nobody even wants me to behave. As ludicrous as this is from a theological standpoint -- that an all-knowing, all-loving and long-suffering G-d would somehow forget about us or give up on us, it is so enticing a belief, that in our insanity we sometimes convince ourselves it is the case. (The Theory of Evolution immediately comes to mind. There is no loving or caring G-d. Life is one big accident.) The world is empty and meaningless, but within it I am totally free.
We must never give up on ourselves. In addition, however, I believe it has important relevance to the subject of prayer.
It is possible to pray -- and to pray well -- and to fall into the exact same trap: I am a hopeless sinner who can turn only to G-d for salvation. Prayer is a form of self- deprecation before the L-rd: "Only You can help me, G-d. My life, my very existence is worthless and ineffectual. I pray to You and await Your salvation. I could never go on without You." Inspiring humility or hopeless laziness? Is prayer a means of giving up on ourselves and asking G-d to pick up the pieces Himself?
Equally sinister: Humbling oneself too much before G-d might be a means of self-debasement rather than self-improvement. As my teacher R. Yochanan Zweig (www.talmudicu.edu) observed, when we talk too freely and comfortably about how lowly we are, it becomes a means of getting used to ourselves - almost of telling G-d to accept us for whom we are. We almost would like to confide in our G-d -- as one confides in a psychologist -- telling Him how lowly we are so that we can relieve the guilt from our chests. Unfortunately, prayer is not the confessional. We do not pray to assuage ourguilt feelings, to talk ourselves into how wicked and irredeemable we are. Prayer must be our means of pulling ourselves out of it.
Perhaps for this reason R. Shimon warns us not to view ourselves as overly wicked. Although as he just stated we must pray intently and regularly, we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously! It is true that we require much Divine mercy and we have much to apologize for. But don't turn your life into a vicious cycle of sin - guilt - confession. Do not use prayer as a means of self-debasement. We pray because we require G-d's help, but as they say, the L-rd helps those who help themselves. And so, to state it moreaccurately, we pray because we know that we can do something about our faults -- and because we know that with G-d's help we will manage to get there.
JC: PLEASE consider how you speak and act...and the effect your hateful words have on others... you really can make a difference...
I wish you the best of luck... and that you will start to question the words you use...you can do better!
katie k
carla - 07 Mar 2004 23:04 GMT [snipperino]
I just have to say that I wish I could believe this would be the "last one for j.c." from you, katie, but I have to admit I am skeptical.
Somehow, it just hasn't seemed thus far like the motivation for your pursuit of him was really your concern for his mortal soul.
carla
Jean M. - 07 Mar 2004 23:19 GMT STFU, you batty bint. *PLONK*
Anthony - 08 Mar 2004 00:16 GMT > STFU, you batty bint. *PLONK* Roger that!!
Supergoof - 10 Mar 2004 04:26 GMT > STFU, you batty bint. *PLONK* *snort*
my sentiments exactly!
Flame wars I can tolerate, but bible-bashing really grates my arse.
Rachel (New Zealand)
JC Der Koenig - 08 Mar 2004 00:46 GMT You are vacuous in your tenacity, yet still a little interesting because of your eccentricity. Funny how things work out.
> You think G-d doesn't care about you? In a way, enormously depressing. > "I am alone and unloved in an uncaring world. There is not even an [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > katie k Clark Mertz - 08 Mar 2004 01:07 GMT This is not a defense but I have to admit that I check at least two times a day to see what the "JC" response is to posts on this NG. Perhaps I am a little depraved but the simple, in your face "eat less exercise more" is the best advice I have seen here, even with the additional comments that can be too personal sometimes. It is rather interesting seeing how people react. Maybe I'm too cynical. We all want it easy, don't we?
Mertz
> You are vacuous in your tenacity, yet still a little interesting because of > yaour eccentricity. Funny how things work out. [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > > > katie k marengo - 08 Mar 2004 05:08 GMT | You are vacuous in your tenacity, | yet still a little interesting | because of your eccentricity | Funny how things work out. Hey, that was downright poetic!
 Signature Peter website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo
JC Der Koenig - 08 Mar 2004 12:35 GMT Shhhh. She'll think I'm writing love letters.
> | You are vacuous in your tenacity, > | yet still a little interesting > | because of your eccentricity > | Funny how things work out. > > Hey, that was downright poetic! Linda Harms - 08 Mar 2004 18:04 GMT > | You are vacuous in your tenacity, > | yet still a little interesting > | because of your eccentricity > | Funny how things work out. > > Hey, that was downright poetic! Worthy of Sondheim. I'd like to hear it set to music.
 Signature ************************************ Linda Harms New York, NY
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
Macbeth, Act 5 Scene 5
Linda Harms - 08 Mar 2004 18:07 GMT > You are vacuous in your tenacity, yet still a little interesting because of > your eccentricity. Funny how things work out. I have the feeling that she thinks she is writing to J(esus) C(hrist).
 Signature ************************************ Linda Harms New York, NY
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
Macbeth, Act 5 Scene 5
JC Der Koenig - 09 Mar 2004 02:46 GMT Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also.
 Signature Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)
Becky P.
> > You are vacuous in your tenacity, yet still a little interesting because of > > your eccentricity. Funny how things work out. > > I have the feeling that she thinks she is writing to J(esus) C(hrist). marengo - 09 Mar 2004 04:16 GMT | Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also. or (J)oan (Cr)rawford
Peter website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 09 Mar 2004 05:36 GMT > | Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also. > > or (J)oan (C)rawford or (J)ames (C)aan.
JC Der Koenig - 09 Mar 2004 11:51 GMT > > | Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also. > > > > or (J)oan (C)rawford > > or (J)ames (C)aan. or J(immy) C(liff).
marengo - 09 Mar 2004 13:25 GMT |||| Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also. ||| [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | | or J(immy) C(liff). (J)immy (C)arter?
 Signature Peter website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo
Pat Paris - 09 Mar 2004 15:44 GMT On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:25:00 GMT, "marengo" wrote"
>|||| Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also. >||| [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >(J)immy (C)arter? (J)ackie (C)han.
marengo - 09 Mar 2004 17:39 GMT | On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:25:00 GMT, "marengo" wrote" | [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] || | (J)ackie (C)han. (J)ohnn (C)ash
 Signature Peter website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo
Clayton McGow - 10 Mar 2004 00:01 GMT > | On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:25:00 GMT, "marengo" wrote" > | [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > (J)ohnn (C)ash Bah! It's (J)ulia (C)hild
-- Clayton McGow mrwilder@atoznet.com
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JJ - 10 Mar 2004 00:37 GMT >>> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:25:00 GMT, "marengo" wrote" >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Bah! It's (J)ulia (C)hild Well, might this be the final word? Is there not a website for everything?
http://www.mausworks.com/Acro_All_Night/nebljc.html
 Signature JJ.
marengo - 10 Mar 2004 00:35 GMT |||| On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:25:00 GMT, "marengo" wrote" |||| [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] | | http://www.mausworks.com/Acro_All_Night/nebljc.html LMAO!
 Signature Peter website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo
Marsha - 11 Mar 2004 01:55 GMT > Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also. Et tu, Brute?
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