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last one for j.c.

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katie k - 07 Mar 2004 22:17 GMT
You think G-d doesn't care about you? In a way, enormously depressing.
"I am alone and unloved in an uncaring world. There is not even an
all-compassionate Deity to fall back upon. But then again, it lifts a
great burden off my shoulders. The great inner turmoil which is the
fate of conscientious man is removed from me. There is no struggle
physical versus spiritual, selfishness versus selflessness.

If G-d doesn't care about me, He certainly doesn't care what I do. And
so, there is no reason to struggle with myself or to repress any of my
basest desires. Nobody cares what I do -- so why not do it? There is
no fancy or indulgence I must repress -- save at most that which my
fellow or society will not allow." (But then again, look at all those
gay marriage licenses being given out today. Society itself frowns on
practically nothing.)

Thus, in a way, we would just love to believe G-d has forgotten about
us or given up on us. Nobody even wants me to behave. As ludicrous as
this is from a theological standpoint -- that an all-knowing,
all-loving and long-suffering G-d would somehow forget about us or
give up on us, it is so enticing a belief, that in our insanity we
sometimes convince ourselves it is the case. (The Theory of Evolution
immediately comes to mind. There is no loving or caring G-d. Life is
one big accident.) The world is empty and meaningless, but within it I
am totally free.

We must never give up on ourselves. In addition, however, I believe
it has important relevance to the subject of prayer.

It is possible to pray -- and to pray well -- and to fall into the
exact same trap: I am a hopeless sinner who can turn only to G-d for
salvation. Prayer is a form of self- deprecation before the L-rd:
"Only You can help me, G-d. My life, my very existence is worthless
and ineffectual. I pray to You and await Your salvation. I could never
go on without You." Inspiring humility or hopeless laziness? Is prayer
a means of giving up on ourselves and asking G-d to pick up the pieces
Himself?

Equally sinister: Humbling oneself too much before G-d might be a
means of self-debasement rather than self-improvement. As my teacher
R. Yochanan Zweig (www.talmudicu.edu) observed, when we talk too
freely and comfortably about how lowly we are, it becomes a means of
getting used to ourselves - almost of telling G-d to accept us for
whom we are. We almost would like to confide in our G-d -- as one
confides in a psychologist -- telling Him how lowly we are so that we
can relieve the guilt from our chests. Unfortunately, prayer is not
the confessional. We do not pray to assuage ourguilt feelings, to talk
ourselves into how wicked and irredeemable we are. Prayer must be our
means of pulling ourselves out of it.

Perhaps for this reason R. Shimon warns us not to view ourselves as
overly wicked. Although as he just stated we must pray intently and
regularly, we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously! It is true that
we require much Divine mercy and we have much to apologize for. But
don't turn your life into a vicious cycle of sin - guilt - confession.
Do not use prayer as a means of self-debasement. We pray because we
require G-d's help, but as they say, the L-rd helps those who help
themselves. And so, to state it moreaccurately, we pray because we
know that we can do something about our faults -- and because we know
that with G-d's help we will manage to get there.

JC: PLEASE consider how you speak and act...and the effect your
hateful words have on others... you really can make a difference...

I wish you the best of luck... and that you will start to question the
words you use...you can do better!

katie k
carla - 07 Mar 2004 23:04 GMT
[snipperino]

I just have to say that I wish I could believe this would be the "last one
for j.c." from you, katie, but I have to admit I am skeptical.

Somehow, it just hasn't seemed thus far like the motivation for your pursuit
of him was really your concern for his mortal soul.

carla
Jean M. - 07 Mar 2004 23:19 GMT
STFU, you batty bint. *PLONK*
Anthony - 08 Mar 2004 00:16 GMT
> STFU, you batty bint. *PLONK*

Roger that!!
Supergoof - 10 Mar 2004 04:26 GMT
> STFU, you batty bint. *PLONK*

*snort*

my sentiments exactly!

Flame wars I can tolerate, but bible-bashing really grates my arse.

Rachel
(New Zealand)
JC Der Koenig - 08 Mar 2004 00:46 GMT
You are vacuous in your tenacity, yet still a little interesting because of
your eccentricity. Funny how things work out.

> You think G-d doesn't care about you? In a way, enormously depressing.
> "I am alone and unloved in an uncaring world. There is not even an
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
>
> katie k
Clark Mertz - 08 Mar 2004 01:07 GMT
This is not a defense but I have to admit that I check at least two times a
day to see what the "JC" response is to posts on this NG. Perhaps I am a
little depraved but the simple, in your face "eat less exercise more" is the
best advice I have seen here, even with the additional comments that can be
too personal sometimes. It is rather interesting seeing how people react.
Maybe I'm too cynical. We all want it easy, don't we?

Mertz

> You are vacuous in your tenacity, yet still a little interesting because of
> yaour eccentricity. Funny how things work out.
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
> >
> > katie k
marengo - 08 Mar 2004 05:08 GMT
| You are vacuous in your tenacity,
| yet still a little interesting
| because of your eccentricity
| Funny how things work out.

Hey, that was downright poetic!
Signature

Peter
website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

JC Der Koenig - 08 Mar 2004 12:35 GMT
Shhhh. She'll think I'm writing love letters.

> | You are vacuous in your tenacity,
> | yet still a little interesting
> | because of your eccentricity
> | Funny how things work out.
>
> Hey, that was downright poetic!
Linda Harms - 08 Mar 2004 18:04 GMT
> | You are vacuous in your tenacity,
> | yet still a little interesting
> | because of your eccentricity
> | Funny how things work out.
>
> Hey, that was downright poetic!

Worthy of Sondheim.  I'd like to hear it set to music.

Signature

************************************
Linda Harms
New York, NY

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Macbeth, Act 5 Scene 5

Linda Harms - 08 Mar 2004 18:07 GMT
> You are vacuous in your tenacity, yet still a little interesting because of
> your eccentricity. Funny how things work out.

I have the feeling that she thinks she is writing to J(esus) C(hrist).

Signature

************************************
Linda Harms
New York, NY

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Macbeth, Act 5 Scene 5

JC Der Koenig - 09 Mar 2004 02:46 GMT
Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also.

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> > You are vacuous in your tenacity, yet still a little interesting because of
> > your eccentricity. Funny how things work out.
>
> I have the feeling that she thinks she is writing to J(esus) C(hrist).
marengo - 09 Mar 2004 04:16 GMT
| Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also.

or (J)oan (Cr)rawford

Peter
website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 09 Mar 2004 05:36 GMT
> | Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also.
>
> or (J)oan (C)rawford

or (J)ames (C)aan.
JC Der Koenig - 09 Mar 2004 11:51 GMT
> > | Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also.
> >
> > or (J)oan (C)rawford
>
> or (J)ames (C)aan.

or J(immy) C(liff).
marengo - 09 Mar 2004 13:25 GMT
|||| Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also.
|||
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
|
| or J(immy) C(liff).

(J)immy (C)arter?
Signature

Peter
website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Pat Paris - 09 Mar 2004 15:44 GMT
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:25:00 GMT, "marengo" wrote"

>|||| Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also.
>|||
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>(J)immy (C)arter?

(J)ackie (C)han.
marengo - 09 Mar 2004 17:39 GMT
| On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:25:00 GMT, "marengo" wrote"
|
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
||
| (J)ackie (C)han.

(J)ohnn (C)ash
Signature

Peter
website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Clayton McGow - 10 Mar 2004 00:01 GMT
> | On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:25:00 GMT, "marengo" wrote"
> |
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> (J)ohnn (C)ash

Bah! It's (J)ulia (C)hild

--
Clayton McGow
mrwilder@atoznet.com

Check out our NEW Pocket Breathalyzer
   http://www.BeforeYouDrive.com
JJ - 10 Mar 2004 00:37 GMT
>>> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:25:00 GMT, "marengo" wrote"
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Bah! It's (J)ulia (C)hild

Well, might this be the final word?  Is there not a website
for everything?

http://www.mausworks.com/Acro_All_Night/nebljc.html

Signature

JJ.

marengo - 10 Mar 2004 00:35 GMT
|||| On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:25:00 GMT, "marengo" wrote"
||||
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
|
| http://www.mausworks.com/Acro_All_Night/nebljc.html

LMAO!
Signature

Peter
website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Marsha - 11 Mar 2004 01:55 GMT
> Could be J(ulius) C(easar) also.

Et tu, Brute?
 
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