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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / March 2004

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Induction, Take 2! Here we go again!

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Guy Smiley - 07 Mar 2004 23:32 GMT
Hello everyone. I posted here about a month ago. I went on Induction
for 2 weeks, lost 13 lbs, found my digestive system was waaaaay outta
whack (I have IBS), so I eased too many carbs back into my life. My
digstive system settled, but I regained some of the lost lbs.

Armed with a new bottle of Psyllium pills, and ready to east less
fatty stuff, I'm ready for another kick at the can. I will however,
start my morning with a bowl of All Bran, and after two weeks, begin
to introduce carbs back into my diet. I'm going to follow more of a
South Beach plan this time around. I think it will be more doable pour
moi.

Anyone else fall off the LC wagon only to jump back on again?

Guy Smiley
freeborn - 07 Mar 2004 23:58 GMT
> Hello everyone. I posted here about a month ago. I went on Induction
> for 2 weeks, lost 13 lbs, found my digestive system was waaaaay outta
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Guy Smiley

Doing it myself right now.
Lost a lovely 15 pounds and had a blast doing it for about 3 months.
Then I started going off the maintenance plan too often with my
deep adoration for high quality chocolates.
I'll have to look into the south beach plan .. new to me.

..........................
Mike - 08 Mar 2004 04:14 GMT
Umm, SB is not going to help you with your chocolate addiction.

You keep eating them your going to keep falling off.

> > Hello everyone. I posted here about a month ago. I went on Induction
> > for 2 weeks, lost 13 lbs, found my digestive system was waaaaay outta
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> ..........................
Christy - 08 Mar 2004 05:47 GMT
I'm back to Atkins too...did very well in the summer and fall...fell
off the wagon over the holidays and gained most of the weight back.
Lesson learned: if you go back to how you ate before you will have the
BODY you had before!!
I started again just yesterday and have already lost 3.8lbs!! Nice
incentive! Christy
JC Der Koenig - 08 Mar 2004 00:48 GMT
Why do you even bother? It's obvious you'll never make it.

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> Hello everyone. I posted here about a month ago. I went on Induction
> for 2 weeks, lost 13 lbs, found my digestive system was waaaaay outta
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Guy Smiley
Guy Smiley - 08 Mar 2004 01:07 GMT
>Why do you even bother? It's obvious you'll never make it.

Ahhh... a realist. Judging from your posts, you derive satisfaction
from belittling others. I find it pathetic that some people resort to
such actions in cyberspace... mostly because in real life, they're
without backbone.

So, reply as you wish. I find you predictable, and of little value to
this group.

Guy S.
JC Der Koenig - 08 Mar 2004 03:05 GMT
Why are you still fat if you have all the answers?

You might as well face it now, you make too many excuses to be successful
with any weight-loss program.

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> >Why do you even bother? It's obvious you'll never make it.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Guy S.
Mike - 08 Mar 2004 04:16 GMT
I have to agree with you, JC is too predictable and boring - has to be his
military training. I think he only has a few sayings in there that he just
repeats. Good old USA money spent well on a below average intelligence.

Just think of him as a drill sergent and the care of what he says goes away,
but you still get the jist of it - "don't give up on yourself".

Mike

> >Why do you even bother? It's obvious you'll never make it.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Guy S.
revek - 08 Mar 2004 04:36 GMT
Mike  burbled across the ether:
> I have to agree with you, JC is too predictable and boring - has to
> be his military training. I think he only has a few sayings in there
> that he just repeats. Good old USA money spent well on a below
> average intelligence.

Above average, actually.  JC is a high school algebra teacher.  That
says a *lot*, if you have any memory of what teenagers are like, the
school system is like, and what it takes to teach algebra to anybody and
make it stick.

> Just think of him as a drill sergent and the care of what he says
> goes away, but you still get the jist of it - "don't give up on
> yourself".

With a dash of "I really don't have the patience to sit here and listen
you find reasons not to try".  He's probably burn up his lifetime supply
hanging with 15 year olds all day.

Signature

revek   www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html  lowcarbing since June
           2002 5'2" 41 F  165+/too much/size seven petite please
Bureaucracy is a challenge to be overcome by a righteous attitude,
tolerance for stupidity and a bulldozer when necessary.

Guy Smiley - 08 Mar 2004 10:06 GMT
>Above average, actually.  JC is a high school algebra teacher.  

That might explain it then. Kinda like the Schoolmaster in Pink
Floyd's The Wall. Get beat up at home (or in this case, at school),
and then take it out on the kids (or in this case, by insulting people
in a newgroup of all things).

These days, poor treatment of kids can cost a teacher. He/she can be
warned/reprimanded/suspended/fired. Some frustrated teachers might
just have to find some other outlet for their frustrations. I'm not
bashing the profession. In fact, I'm a teacher-administrator myself,
and teach high school calculus.

It's a shame to have a person so critical in a forum where people are
looking for advice and encouragement. Anyhoo... some people are what
they are.  

Well, back on the wagon for me.

Guy S.
JC Der Koenig - 08 Mar 2004 12:38 GMT
Can you do the calculus of the killfile?

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> >Above average, actually.  JC is a high school algebra teacher.
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Guy S.
Guy Smiley - 08 Mar 2004 21:07 GMT
>Can you do the calculus of the killfile?

No "limits" to what you have to offer. You badger your kids that much
too?
JC Der Koenig - 09 Mar 2004 02:54 GMT
> >Can you do the calculus of the killfile?
>
> No "limits" to what you have to offer. You badger your kids that much
> too?

I normally don't need to, as they are made of sterner stuff.
Mark - 08 Mar 2004 16:26 GMT
Hi folks,

      I'd like to respond to the original posts regarding falling off
induction. There is no question regarding the immediate weight lose of
Akins or SB diets. For that matter, any other program that starts with
an induction type phase.
      However, with all these type plans, there are a couple
important things to consider.

1. realise that that original weight lose is only a % of fat lose -
the rest is water and muscle(usually. A persons goal whould be soley
Fat lose.

2. Many people have the same problem of falling off - trying again or
jumoing to a new diet plan because of the inherit problems associated
with going "cold turkey" so to speak with eating patterns and tastes
that you have developed over a life time.

That is why a program that is based on a more balanced , synergistic
diet and  health plan is more successful long term.

A.It combines common sense eating habbits tailored to you personally
that gradually bring you to the exact eating plan (not diet) that is
correct for you.

B. It acknowledges that exercise is a componet of overal success and
health. Again starting at what works for you and build upon that.

C. A plan that sees vitamins and supplements as aids - not the answer.
For example , it is very hard to get all our nutrition from todays
processed foods so a vitamin supplement may be suggested. But the plan
does not suggest product a for loosing weight or increasing your
metabolism soley. Again your goal is to develope a lifestyle that
feeds upon itself. In other words , your results and improved health,
energey and mental clarity make you want to go to the next step.

I can go on and on but... Anyway I hope my input helps someone to
reach their goals and I would be happy to respond to any comments.

Thanks Mark
Prior personal trainer
Bob in CT - 08 Mar 2004 16:33 GMT
> Hi folks,
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> A.It combines common sense eating habbits tailored to you personally
> that gradually bring you to the exact eating plan (not diet) that is

I consider a low carb diet a great "eating plan."

> B. It acknowledges that exercise is a componet of overal success and
> health. Again starting at what works for you and build upon that.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Thanks Mark
> Prior personal trainer

Induction is useful because it breaks (or helps to break) the sugar
addiction.  Induction isn't meant to be followed forever.

Signature

Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Jean M. - 08 Mar 2004 16:48 GMT
>That is why a program that is based on a more balanced , synergistic
>diet and  health plan is more successful long term.

As opposed to low carb? Cites, please.
revek - 08 Mar 2004 18:27 GMT
Mark  burbled across the ether:
> Hi folks,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>        However, with all these type plans, there are a couple
> important things to consider.

> 1. realise that that original weight lose is only a % of fat lose -
> the rest is water and muscle(usually. A persons goal whould be soley
> Fat lose.

Water/fat/muscle loss happens with ALL diets regardless of whether they
have an induction phase or not, and protien sparing diets (like Atkins
and SB) ususally don't have the muscle loss of other diets because you
are getting enough protien.

> 2. Many people have the same problem of falling off - trying again or
> jumoing to a new diet plan because of the inherit problems associated
> with going "cold turkey" so to speak with eating patterns and tastes
> that you have developed over a life time.
> That is why a program that is based on a more balanced , synergistic
> diet and  health plan is more successful long term.

1.  What do you mean by "balanced"?  Discuss why Atkins or SB is not
'balanced'.
2.  If your diet consisted of junk before you decided to lose weight,
then any change in your eating habits to something healthier, regardless
of 'balance' is going to take time to adjust to.

> A.It combines common sense eating habbits tailored to you personally
> that gradually bring you to the exact eating plan (not diet) that is
> correct for you.

Sounds like many lowcarb plans to me.

> B. It acknowledges that exercise is a componet of overal success and
> health. Again starting at what works for you and build upon that.

Ditto.

> C. A plan that sees vitamins and supplements as aids - not the answer.
> For example , it is very hard to get all our nutrition from todays
> processed foods so a vitamin supplement may be suggested.

Your two scentences contradict each other.  You may have meant to say
something else, but you didn't.

But the plan
> does not suggest product a for loosing weight or increasing your
> metabolism soley.

Lowcarb plans do not do this.  That is a personal decision.  You see it
more often in folks who are still 'dieting' rather than making a
lifetime change.

I get the impression that 1 you are not fully aware of what a lowcarb
plan entails-- any lowcarb plan.  I suggest you research them all.  And
the studies.  www.lowcarbresearch.org/results.asp  Don't rely on the
media to tell you what a lowcarb plan is.  And 2, you are drumming up
business for yourself Mr Personal Trainer, but perhaps I'm wrong.  If
you are not, you should try a different approach to helping people.

> Thanks Mark
> Prior personal trainer

Do you know MU?

Signature

revek   www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html  lowcarbing since June
           2002 5'2" 41 F  165+/too much/size seven petite please
Let's just say that if complete and utter chaos was lightning, he'd be
the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper
armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'. - Rincewind Expaining
Twoflower, Terry Pratchett, The Color Of Magic

Mark - 09 Mar 2004 04:53 GMT
> Mark  burbled across the ether:
> > Hi folks,
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> and SB) ususally don't have the muscle loss of other diets because you
> are getting enough protien.

A more synergistic health plan , along the lines of 40/40/30 (then
modified to suite personal needs) coupled with exercise would not
cause muscle or water loss.

> > 2. Many people have the same problem of falling off - trying again or
> > jumoing to a new diet plan because of the inherit problems associated
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> 1.  What do you mean by "balanced"?  Discuss why Atkins or SB is not
> 'balanced'.

SB is more liberal with carbs which I think is important.

> 2.  If your diet consisted of junk before you decided to lose weight,
> then any change in your eating habits to something healthier, regardless
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Sounds like many lowcarb plans to me.

  low carbs is not the end all to weight problems. It does not work
for everyone.

> > B. It acknowledges that exercise is a componet of overal success and
> > health. Again starting at what works for you and build upon that.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Your two scentences contradict each other.  You may have meant to say
> something else, but you didn't.

man - I feel on the defense here. Anyway - as I reread what I said -
I feel my intent is explained. Some plans use vitamins and supplements
as aids. As opposed to a plan whose "diet pill" is the product and the
weight lose plan.
> But the plan
> > does not suggest product a for loosing weight or increasing your
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> more often in folks who are still 'dieting' rather than making a
> lifetime change.

correct - I was just making a point - not saying low carb plans do
this.

> I get the impression that 1 you are not fully aware of what a lowcarb
> plan entails-- any lowcarb plan.  I suggest you research them all.  And
> the studies.  www.lowcarbresearch.org/results.asp  Don't rely on the
> media to tell you what a lowcarb plan is.  And 2, you are drumming up
> business for yourself Mr Personal Trainer, but perhaps I'm wrong.  If
> you are not, you should try a different approach to helping people.

Well - heres the thing. DO you see any advertisement from me anywhere
trying to promote something or myself - No. In fact , I made a point
of printing "prior" personal trainer. Additionally, a person does not
get certified as a personal trainer with the training certifications I
have without much much more knowledge than low carb diet plans. As far
as experince in what I'm talking about with low carb diets - I was a
competitive body builder in my twenties. I did well winning Mr. Ct and
2nd in Northeast. Do you know the dietary knowledge and discipline it
takes to get to 4% bodyfat. I've been there and have helped othere
also. I went to your link - my hats off to your accomplishments but
please - you telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about is
comical. Sorry - but your comments were aggressive when I was simply
trying to help.

> > Thanks Mark
> > Prior personal trainer
>
> Do you know MU?
JC Der Koenig - 09 Mar 2004 05:13 GMT
> A more synergistic health plan , along the lines of 40/40/30 (then
> modified to suite personal needs) coupled with exercise would not
> cause muscle or water loss.

Could you be more wrong on this point?

It doesn't seem possible.
jpatti - 09 Mar 2004 14:39 GMT
> Hi folks,
>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> Thanks Mark
> Prior personal trainer

Mark, you seem to miss entirely the point of both a low-carb diet
generally and of induction specifically.

Induction allows the biochemistry to flip-over from primarily
insulin-driven to glucagon-driven and that is the point of induction,
not weight loss.  Sure, there's a bunch of weight loss, and you're
right, it's mostly water as losing glycogen stores causes a lot of
water loss.  Though I don't see how there would be muscle loss if one
is getting adequate protein which all low-carb plans include.  But
that is because the *point* of induction is not fat loss; the point of
induction is to *prepare* for fat loss by flipping the biochemistry.

Saying you don't lose much fat on induction is like saying you don't
get much driving experience by taking a bus.  No kidding!

Induction is not itself the weight-loss portion of the Aktins program.
Atkins identifies the phase after induction which he calls OWL -
"Ongoing Weight Loss" - and the instructions involve increasing the
carbs in small increments weekly until out of ketosis, then backing up
to the previous week's level of carbs for weight loss.  Doing so
allows you to tailor your own weight-loss plan and also lets you know
what you need for maintenance.  Thus each person's "low carb" diet is
tailored specifically to them both for the weight loss and maintenance
phases.

I'm not an At-kid, I don't even care for Aktins much.  But the whole
notion that he propounds some fad one-size-fits-all diet is just
wrong.  The one-size-fits-all bit is just for two weeks and is
*preparatory* to the weight loss portion of the diet.

The other low-carb diets I am familiar with are Protein Power and
Bernstein's Diabetes Solution.  PP has a really low low-carb phase
(similar to Aktins induciton), a medium-level low-carb phase (similar
to Atkins OWL) and a maintenance phase - with maintenance based on a
person's individual response to carbs as determined by body fat
percentages.

Bernstein's diet is based on blood sugar readings - again starting
with really low-carb and moving up based on what the individual can
handle and maintain their health.

Both of these, as well as Atkins, address individual biochemistry in a
way that saying 40/40/30 does not.  You are *claiming* that
individuals vary, but you gave specific numbers... 40/40/30 with no
advice about how to *really* determine what works best for the
individual if 40/40/30 doesn't happen to work, whereas it is *basic*
to all the low-carb diets I'm familair with that each individual has
to find their own best diet by making adjustments.

Further, if you did provide an adjustment mechanism and suggest I
begin at 40/40/30 as an average number and work from there, it'd be
extremely difficult for me to do so.  Why? Because at the level of
carbs, for me, I'd have constant cravings due to blood sugar issues.
It'd require a lot of willpower day-in and day-out for me to start at
that level and work downwards to my ideal carb level.  It'd be really
difficult to deal with those cravings for months on end until I found
what worked best for me.

Whereas starting with an induction-like phase, during the first week,
your average person has severe cravings.  One has to "butch up" and
just get through that with willpower.  But once the biochemistry
flips, willpower isn't very necessary because the intense cravings go
away when you get off the blood sugar rollercoaster.  It becomes
pretty easy to manage one's eating when not dealing with intense
craving.  Thus induction facilitates a change in diet regardless of
whether dietary changes are for the purpose of weight loss,
blood-sugar control, or to deal with other health issues.

With low-carb, there's only a week of two of willpower needed to get
to a healthy diet, whereas starting at your diet (around 700 grams of
carb per day) and adjusting from there would take me a long time to
find I do best at around 30-50 g carb/day - a long time during which
I'd be suffering cravings and insane blood sugar readings.

And just *forget* low-fat... I did a year of that and *never* got over
craving.   I was ravenous all the time.  On low-carb, I have to remind
myself to eat... and some days when I get busy with life, I literally
forget all day long.  Today, I was up for 6 hours before remembering
that I should have some breakfast and dished up a bowl of garden salad
and egg salad.

The willpower issue is not trivial.  I can plan a week of my life to
be very focused on diet, but I can't plan for months of using a big
chunk of my psychic energy that way.  I have work, I have family, I
have a life... and to make healthy changes in my life for the long
haul, I need it to be easy for me to do.  Resisting temptation can't
be a big, hairy deal if I'm to be successful over the long run.

Same applies to exercise too.  I can't just do what *you* do for
exercise, not in the long run.  In the long run, it has to be
something that I enjoy, that I don't have to *force* myself to do
regularly.  Because some days, I just need to focus my energy on
something other than exercise... completing a work project, dealing
with a crisis my daughter is having, and on those days, exercise is
not going to happen unless it's *easy* to make myself go do it.

It's *not* a permanent lifestyle change if you have to grit your teeth
and summon all your resources to stick with it.  I can't "butch up"
every day of my life just to improve my health, rather I want the
improved health so I can live my life.  For me, low-carb and going to
the Y *are* lifestyle changes because they're easy to do.  I like my
breakfast today and will enjoy my swimming at the Y later... so even
my daughter calls hysterically before I complete this post, I'll have
the energy and focus to continue doing what I need to do for my
health, making her hysteria easier to deal with.

The "basic" low-carb diet is... eat enough protein to maintain your
lean body mass, eat enough carbs to best manage your personal health
goals, and get the rest of your calories from fat.  All of those
numbers must be determined for each individual because that's how
low-carb diets work.  Properly doing that, some individuals might very
well end up at 40/40/30, not because they're aiming at any particular
percentages, but because that might work best for them.  And all those
who do *not* do best at those percentages will *also* find out what
works best for them.
DG511 - 09 Mar 2004 18:07 GMT
>jpatti@ccil.org  (jpatti)

writes:

>Induction allows the biochemistry to flip-over from primarily
>insulin-driven to glucagon-driven and that is the point of induction,
>not weight loss.

This is the best description I've seen so far.  When my pants got tight, I
decided not just to lose weight, but to pay better attention to my health.  I
therefore didn't look for a weight loss program; I looked for a healthier way
of eating that I could carry forward the rest of my life.  I quit sugar
immediately -- probably the best thing I've ever done for myself -- and went
through an induction-like phase (I'm not a true Atkinsite) that solidified that
change by eliminating the remaining junk carbs in my diet.

I was at Whole Foods earlier today and realized I'd never before bought so many
fresh vegetables and so little sugar- and wheat-based junk.  And yeah, my pants
fit again, and I'm not really that concerned about getting to my goal weight
because I feel so much better.

People have to start understanding that low-carb is at least as much about
better health as it is about weight loss.  Is it better for people to lose
weight slowly on healthier foods or to lose it faster on the same old high-carb
junk food while they're starving themselves?  The answer seems obvious.

Daria
166/150/140
sugar-free since 2/1/04
low-carb since 2/17/04
Luna - 08 Mar 2004 01:42 GMT
Do you think he'll never make it because he failed once?  Or because he's
doing a more liberal plan than you are? I think neither of those are a
garauntee of future failure.  

> Why do you even bother? It's obvious you'll never make it.
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> >
> > Guy Smiley

Signature

Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

JC Der Koenig - 08 Mar 2004 03:06 GMT
I think you spelled "guarantee" wrong.

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> Do you think he'll never make it because he failed once?  Or because he's
> doing a more liberal plan than you are? I think neither of those are a
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> > >
> > > Guy Smiley
Luna - 08 Mar 2004 03:50 GMT
I think so too.  :o)  But can you answer the question?  I'd hate to think
that failing once means you'll never succeed. Isn't there some saying about
"try try again"?

> I think you spelled "guarantee" wrong.
>
> > Do you think he'll never make it because he failed once?  Or because he's
> > doing a more liberal plan than you are? I think neither of those are a
> > garauntee of future failure.

Signature

Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

JC Der Koenig - 08 Mar 2004 03:57 GMT
It's all about attitude. His is weak.

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> I think so too.  :o)  But can you answer the question?  I'd hate to think
> that failing once means you'll never succeed. Isn't there some saying about
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> > > doing a more liberal plan than you are? I think neither of those are a
> > > garauntee of future failure.
Luna - 08 Mar 2004 05:28 GMT
I think the willingness to try something that you once failed at actually
indicates a pretty strong attitude.  People get all gung-ho about low-carb,
thinking it will be an easy way to lose weight (because, face it, that's
how it's portrayed in the media) and then they make mistakes out of
ignorance of how the diet works. Imo, in that circumstance, the easy way
out would be to give up and blame the diet.   I think it takes a lot of
guts to come in here and say "I screwed up, but I'm going to try again."

> It's all about attitude. His is weak.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> > > > doing a more liberal plan than you are? I think neither of those are a
> > > > garauntee of future failure.

Signature

Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

JC Der Koenig - 08 Mar 2004 12:39 GMT
Taking wagers?

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> I think the willingness to try something that you once failed at actually
> indicates a pretty strong attitude.  People get all gung-ho about low-carb,
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> > > > > doing a more liberal plan than you are? I think neither of those are a
> > > > > garauntee of future failure.
Luna - 08 Mar 2004 15:22 GMT
Nah.  I don't make bets on anything.  I do remember reading that most
people who finally sucessfully quit smoking have failed at quitting several
times in the past, though. So I just wonder if it's the same sort of thing
with losing weight.  

> Taking wagers?
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> are a
> > > > > > garauntee of future failure.

Signature

Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

joann@macmail.com - 08 Mar 2004 14:58 GMT
> Why do you even bother? It's obvious you'll never make it.

You must be a very small, very, very bored little person judging from
the amount of time you have available to spend here insulting others.
At first I thought your behaviour here reminded me of the kind of
childish meanness that goes on in high school, but then I thought NO,
this is really VERY fifth grade.

Fortunately for most of us, no matter how much weight we lose, we'll
never be that small.
JC Der Koenig - 09 Mar 2004 02:50 GMT
I'm sure that I'm much smaller than you, and always will be. Unless you
decide to quit stuffing your pie hole with so much crap.

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> > Why do you even bother? It's obvious you'll never make it.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Fortunately for most of us, no matter how much weight we lose, we'll
> never be that small.
Jean M. - 08 Mar 2004 03:49 GMT
>Anyone else fall off the LC wagon only to jump back on again?

I have seen quite a few that are on their second ride here. I'm one of
them. Welcome back. Wasn't your wife doing lc, too?
Guy Smiley - 08 Mar 2004 09:54 GMT
>>Anyone else fall off the LC wagon only to jump back on again?
>
>I have seen quite a few that are on their second ride here. I'm one of
>them. Welcome back. Wasn't your wife doing lc, too?

My girlfriend, yes. We both fell off the wagon, and she's going to
follow more of a SB plan. Her uncle has lost over 100 lbs on Atkins,
and strongly recommended increasing the carbs after 2 weeks (as
outlined for OWL), to avoid the "stupids", and to help make the plan
easier to follow.

Guy S.
Christy - 08 Mar 2004 18:45 GMT
Well, well, well...I see that JC is still here...boring us all with
his "wit". Really, JC, what is the point?? Are you just rude and
insulting in all situations? Please don't reply, as I don't care. Your
responses are always about the
same.....callous....rude...negative...unhelpful...

LUNA- Glad you are still here..and your latest photo shows how well
you are doing!!! I do agree that as with quitting smoking, to lose
weight you may have to have a few false starts but are more likely to
lose if you keep going at it.

For the others who aren't perfect like someone else thinks he is, at
least we are back on the program! Good luck to all.............CP
Luna - 08 Mar 2004 20:16 GMT
> Well, well, well...I see that JC is still here...boring us all with
> his "wit". Really, JC, what is the point?? Are you just rude and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> For the others who aren't perfect like someone else thinks he is, at
> least we are back on the program! Good luck to all.............CP

Before you start praising me, I do agree with JC that there are certain
attitudes that seem to indicate a lack of commitment and a propensity for
failure.  I just don't think the OP had that attitude, or if he did it
wasn't evidenced in that particular post.

Signature

Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Guy Smiley - 08 Mar 2004 21:11 GMT
>Before you start praising me, I do agree with JC that there are certain
>attitudes that seem to indicate a lack of commitment and a propensity for
>failure.  I just don't think the OP had that attitude, or if he did it
>wasn't evidenced in that particular post.

I agree with you (regarding JC's point). I'm not on a variation of
Indiction that includes a bowl of All Bran in the morning, but the
rest is pure Induction.

Guy S.
Bear - 08 Mar 2004 22:39 GMT
Hey there Guy- Did you mean you are on a variation of induction that
includes All Bran?
Just want to clarify if its a typo.
Oh, and BTW  I tried this diet a year ago and made it only less than a week.
I'm doing great this time around. The smoking analogy was a good one. It
took an entire year of quitting and starting again and again. That was over
20 years ago and I haven't smoked since. You can do it. Hang in there.
Signature

Bear
Grrrrrrrrrrrr  :o)
297/268.5/210
Highest weight   353
http://home.earthlink.net/~polarbear50/index.html

> I agree with you (regarding JC's point). I'm not on a variation of
> Indiction that includes a bowl of All Bran in the morning, but the
> rest is pure Induction.
>
> Guy S.
JC Der Koenig - 09 Mar 2004 02:53 GMT
> >Before you start praising me, I do agree with JC that there are certain
> >attitudes that seem to indicate a lack of commitment and a propensity for
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Indiction that includes a bowl of All Bran in the morning, but the
> rest is pure Induction.

For a supposed educator, your English is very weak. Is it your second
language?
JC Der Koenig - 09 Mar 2004 02:51 GMT
What's your biggest problem Christy, being fat or being stupid?

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> Well, well, well...I see that JC is still here...boring us all with
> his "wit". Really, JC, what is the point?? Are you just rude and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> For the others who aren't perfect like someone else thinks he is, at
> least we are back on the program! Good luck to all.............CP
Christy - 10 Mar 2004 00:01 GMT
I repeat:

CALLOUS...RUDE...NEGATIVE...UNHELPFUL.......

I thought this forum was for "support" !?!?!?!?!
JC Der Koenig - 10 Mar 2004 02:45 GMT
I support your weightloss, not your idiocy.

Signature

Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

> I repeat:
>
> CALLOUS...RUDE...NEGATIVE...UNHELPFUL.......
>
> I thought this forum was for "support" !?!?!?!?!
Cate - 08 Mar 2004 22:34 GMT
> Anyone else fall off the LC wagon only to jump back on again?

No, but I do have IBS and know of what you speak. (Though I wish to god I
didn't.) I've had great success by adding two acidophilus tabs and two
fiber tabs to my vitamin assortment every morning. I also take a holiday
from vinegar-based dressings (because of the acid) when it flares up.

Good luck to you.

Cate
 
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