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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / March 2004Part of the aggresssive attack
In light of the slow-down, I'm on a new tack. Aggressive. So, this I have planned the following: a. Since aspartame stalls some folks, and I've still been using it (due to no affect earlier in the game), I'm axing aspartame for awhile to see if that does it. b. If that doesn't do it, I'm on to axing caffeine. This is gonna be painful, because I like my coffee, and have been drinking coffee since Iw as quite young. c. If neither of those work, I'm upping the exercise ante quite a bit, somehow (time issues, but it'll be worth it). d. If none of that works, I'm going to do two weeks of low-fat high-carb and see if that breaks it, and then I'm going back to low carb. Finally, last but not least, though by FitDay I'm currently taking in 1800 calories and not going anywhere, if all of the above fails, I'm cutting, slashing, going lower. So, beginning today, no aspartame. 347/260/??? Since 8/5/02  SignatureNancy Howells (don't forget to switch it, and replace the ;) to send mail). :: In light of the slow-down, I'm on a new tack. Aggressive. :: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] :: -- :: Nancy Howells (don't forget to switch it, and replace the ;) to send mail). Sounds to me like you have it all worked out, Nancy. I wish you the best! ~Carol Ann www.lowcarblosers.com ~ Home of the Monthly Weightloss Challenge This is what I'd do.... 1) Cut cals to about 1500 per day. 2) Up the exercise a bit. Find the time. You can't give up coffee! No way! And I just can't buy the aspartame stalls stuff. :: In light of the slow-down, I'm on a new tack. Aggressive. :: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] :: Nancy Howells (don't forget to switch it, and replace the ;) to send :: mail). :: This is what I'd do.... :: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] :: You can't give up coffee! No way! And I just can't buy the aspartame :: stalls stuff. I couldn't give up coffee either! I did use Splenda! ~Carol Ann www.lowcarblosers.com ~ Home of the Monthly Weightloss Challenge > This is what I'd do.... > > 1) Cut cals to about 1500 per day. > 2) Up the exercise a bit. Find the time. Definitely cutting cals will happen. The exercise is a bit touch and go. Yes, I'm posting right now - as I also am listening to lesson tapes to make lesson plans for the kiddies (so technically I'm working). I've not had a day off in over 70 days - I get one on the 27th, (WOO HOO) and then it's back into the boiler for another month and a half. I'm sticking to a 5-6 day a week exercise plan, but I'm giving up practice time to do it, and it's getting obvious. Had a rehearsal today, couldn't sing a high c - very bad. Need it for Friday, so... Will definitely have to do more exercise, but truly am uncertain as to when - giving up sleep right now is NOT an option. SignatureNancy Howells (don't forget to switch it, and replace the ;) to send mail). Excuses won't cut it. SignatureMost of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :) Becky P. > > This is what I'd do.... > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Will definitely have to do more exercise, but truly am uncertain as to > when - giving up sleep right now is NOT an option. :: In article <105bbqotjn37q2a@corp.supernews.com>, "Roger Zoul" :: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] :: today, :: couldn't sing a high c - very bad. Need it for Friday, so... I hear that. I'm part of a wind quintet...we were performing in the library last week...an Anton Reicha piece...and the beginning, the oboe had the lead...then the french horn picks it up....and then....well, then there was me....and I flubbed up my solo! Dammnit.. .I wanted to crawl away and hide some where...and that was the easiest solo in the piece, too, but on that one I was the only one playing...I should have had it completely finger memorized...so I get what you're saying... Can you sing while marching in place? Is there anyway you can insert pockets of exercise throughout your day so you can do those things yet still get some time in? You may have to be "unusual" and be "driven" to make it happen, but I'd bet if you focus in on how to make it work you'll find a way.... :: Will definitely have to do more exercise, but truly am uncertain as :: to when - giving up sleep right now is NOT an option. Nope...you need your sleep, so you're going to have to be creative... > I hear that. I'm part of a wind quintet...we were performing in the library When I read "wind quartet", I immediately envisioned 4 guys farting to the tune of something or other like Peter Sellers and some other guys doing "The Raspberry Song" :-) I am SO juvenile! SignatureSaffire 205/166/125 - 5'2.5" Atkins since 6/14/03 Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333 > > I hear that. I'm part of a wind quintet...we were performing in the > > library [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Raspberry > Song" :-) I am SO juvenile! I just lost it, majorly... I don't think I'll ever think of anything with the word "wind" in it the same way again. LIke "wind ensemble." Eeeeee.... or would that be "weeeeeeeeeeeeee?" SignatureNancy Howells (don't forget to switch it, and replace the ;) to send mail). Instead of all this low fat high carb esoterics, can you try this: spend 500 calories per day exercising (walking) limit your calories to, say, 1600 per day. stay low carb as usual i > In light of the slow-down, I'm on a new tack. Aggressive. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > 347/260/??? > Since 8/5/02 > In light of the slow-down, I'm on a new tack. Aggressive. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > 347/260/??? > Since 8/5/02 Sounds like a plan, though I don't buy that aspartame and coffee actually stall people. What kind of exercise do you do now? Maybe you don't need _more_ exercise, maybe you just need _different_ exercise. If you're doing mostly cardio, try doing weight lifting, and vice versa. Ideally you should get both. How long have you been in a slow-down? Are you slowed in both weight loss and inch loss? And how slow is "slow" for you? SignatureMichelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws. > > In light of the slow-down, I'm on a new tack. Aggressive. > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > in > both weight loss and inch loss? And how slow is "slow" for you? I've been losing inches, while not losing pounds. Slow means "dead in the water, same weight" for at least two months - I think perhaps three, but I'd have to check. Things had been slowing to around 2 pounds per month for awhile before that. Exercise: I started the major slow-down when I starteded adding weight training - hm. I don't know about the aspartame, but I've been seeing some blood glucose weirdnesses with diet coke - severe and sudden dips in blood glucose. No hunger, but going from 90 to 65 in a half hour. This leads me to suspect either the asparatame or the caffeine - and that it's causing me to dump insulin. SignatureNancy Howells (don't forget to switch it, and replace the ;) to send mail). > > Sounds like a plan, though I don't buy that aspartame and coffee actually > > stall people. What kind of exercise do you do now? Maybe you don't need [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > This leads me to suspect either the asparatame or the caffeine - and > that it's causing me to dump insulin. Just as a fyi, I found that when I ditched the diet coke, my weight went up about five lbs, and I couldn't shift that weight or any of the rest for that matter until just recently when I've started adding the caffeine back. That said, if it's causing you insulin swings it's definitely worth experimenting with giving it up. Despite what people say, I found caffeine detox unpleasant but by no means intolerable. Martha SignatureBegin where you are - but don't end there. > > In light of the slow-down, I'm on a new tack. Aggressive. > > > > So, this I have planned the following: [snips] I agree with Luna and Roger. I know that people claim aspartame is a staller, but I can't understand how it could be *if* you are counting calories. I can understand that sweet food can screw with the satiety mechanism, so if you are the kind of dieter who instead of counting calories can just force yourself to stop eating at satiety (I am not) then maybe cutting aspartame helps. But if you are eating fewer calories than you are burning, I don't see how consuming a bit of aspartame can rewrite the laws of physics. In a similar vein, I would cut off my arm before giving up coffee! :-) I don't have a lot of it compared to some - just a mugful of half caf, half decaf each morning - but that one mugful means a lot to my day. Allathat said, those are my priorities, not yours - I'd increase exercise and cut calories before giving up aspartame and coffee (in fact, that's what I did beginning a few weeks ago, and it's worked well for me), because even if the aspartame and coffee do make a difference I think the return is going to be much higher on the other changes. But it sounds like you have done your own cost/benefit analysis. So, whatever you decide to do, good luck to you - and congratulations on taking the bull by the horn! Making any changes at all is so hard when you've already changed so much. carla >I agree with Luna and Roger. I know that people claim aspartame is a >staller, but I can't understand how it could be *if* you are counting [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >calories than you are burning, I don't see how consuming a bit of >aspartame can rewrite the laws of physics. It does seem odd, but for some people there's more going on than just calorie consumption. Atkins himself advised against diet sodas and the like because he was of the opinion that some people have an insulin response to artificial sweeteners, much the same as if they were eating sugar -- their brain/body, for some reason, registers it as carbohydrate and generates insulin anyway, resulting in fat storage. Many people here on this newsgroup have reported stalls from ingesting citric acid. Again -- from a calorie standpoint, it makes no sense. But like I said -- it's not always about calories. Dawn :: On 15 Mar 2004 13:24:01 -0800, cmtlevy@yahoo.com (carla) announced in :: front of God and everybody: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] :: as carbohydrate and generates insulin anyway, resulting in fat :: storage. While this may indeed be true, I think the equation is more complex than this....for example, if consuming AS results in cravings, which then causes a person to want to eat more and they do, then I can see how a net increase in fat storage would come about. However, if the AS causes an insulin response without cravings, and the person still manages to eat less due to a LC WOE, then perhaps where may be a span of time where there is fat storage. However, I would argue that there would also be a span of time where fat would be mobilized and brought out of the cells to be used for fuel. The net increase in fat storage could be negative. :: Many people here on this newsgroup have reported stalls from :: ingesting citric acid. Again -- from a calorie standpoint, it makes :: no sense. But like I said -- it's not always about calories. Well, I'd still like to see some hard proof of it. <snip> > Many people here on this newsgroup have reported stalls from > ingesting citric acid. Again -- from a calorie standpoint, > it makes no sense. Do you (or any one else) have links to studies that show this, or even to a reliable on-line source that describes the action of citric acid in the body? I just tried googling, and all I got were links to opinion posts or sites selling something with citric acid in it. Citric acid is another thing that turns up in the oddest places. > But like I said -- it's not always about calories. That's a truth that seems to be true for me. April. Put out the cat. Signature"Things that try to look like things often do look more like things than things. Well known fact." Esmerelda Weatherwax (Pratchett 1988) > Do you (or any one else) have links to studies that show this, > or even to a reliable on-line source that describes the action > of citric acid in the body? I just tried googling, and all I > got were links to opinion posts or sites selling something > with citric acid in it. Citric acid is another thing that > turns up in the oddest places. Do a search on: krebs cycle ketone In short the idea is that too much dietary citric acid could disrupt the krebs cycle (also known as the citric cycle). SignatureRudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond. "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" -Emiliano Zapata Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm > > Do you (or any one else) have links to studies that show this, > > or even to a reliable on-line source that describes the action [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > In short the idea is that too much dietary citric acid could disrupt > the krebs cycle (also known as the citric cycle). For those of us who failed Bio-100 rather dramatically (our instructor kept patting me on the back as he handed back our quizzes), could someone provide the readers' digest explanation of what happens if the Krebs cycle gets disrupted and how much is too much? Thanks, Martha SignatureBegin where you are - but don't end there. >>> Do you (or any one else) have links to studies that show this, >>> or even to a reliable on-line source that describes the action [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks, > Martha Yes, I'd really like to know too. From experiment it seems like one diet soda a day is enough to stop weight loss for me--- and I'm addicted to the fizzy stuff. I've tried getting some club soda and davinci's and making my own but YECH. -- revek Just because you have a mind like a hammer doesn't mean you should treat everyone else like a nail - Terry Pratchett, Only You Can Save Mankind :: In news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0403171439080.21246-100000@adams.patriot.net, :: Martha Gallagher <marza@patriot.net> coded for transmition to space: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] :: addicted to the fizzy stuff. I've tried getting some club soda and :: davinci's and making my own but YECH. I too would appreciate knowing how a diet soda can stop fat loss in someone who is on calorie restriction. > I too would appreciate knowing how a diet soda can stop fat loss in someone > who is on calorie restriction. I think that its might be a matter of how efficient the fuel burning system could be. Intake too little fuel and the body will find a source to fuel its survival. But if all systems are working at peak efficiently to make use of FFA as a fuel you'll get better results. That said, I've looked and have yet to find any research on dietary citric acid and FFA use... then again there's a lot of research we'd all like to see happen but doesn't get funded because there's no one to profit from it. I think about issues like this in terms of the great water debate. Can you survive just fine on less than 8 glass of water a day? Sure. Can use lose BF even if you're slightly dehydrated? Yes. But if you're asking your body to perform at its peak efficiently at using fuel and taking care of waste, as in doing an aerobic activity, then the slightest level of dehydration will cause a decrease in your abilities. If someone is stalling and has already made the basic adjustments, then experimenting with limiting citric acid might be worth a try. Others on the NG have anecdotally felt it was worthwhile SignatureRudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond. "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" -Emiliano Zapata Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm :: Roger Zoul wrote: :: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] :: then experimenting with limiting citric acid might be worth a try. :: Others on the NG have anecdotally felt it was worthwhile Thanks, Rudy....I'll read those links to provided... DaVinci syrups have citric acid in them too. If citric acid really is the problem, you'd have to cut them out, too. -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.2. Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes, strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm > >>> Do you (or any one else) have links to studies that show this, > >>> or even to a reliable on-line source that describes the action [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > treat everyone else like a nail - Terry Pratchett, Only You Can Save > Mankind >DaVinci syrups have citric acid in them too. If citric acid really is the >problem, you'd have to cut them out, too. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? >Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm Ingredients on a label have to be listed in descending order of amounts, as I am sure you know. Looking at my Caffeine Free Diet Pepsi right now, Citric Acid and natural flavors are listed as the last ingredient. Some may be super sensitive to it I suppose. But how diet soda contributes to stopping fat loss is beyond me. Fat- 0g Carb- 0g Protein- 0g, There is sodium- 25g/Ltr, but that has never been a problem for me. My last BP was 107/70. I drink about 2 Ltrs a day of the stuff. Sleepy --------------------------------- The True Axis of Evil Bush - Cheney - Ashcroft - Rumsfeld --------------------------------- Hi, > For those of us who failed Bio-100 rather dramatically (our > instructor kept patting me on the back as he handed back our > quizzes), could > someone provide the readers' digest explanation of what happens if > the Krebs > cycle gets disrupted and how much is too much? In broad terms, what happens is if there's a bunch of citric acid hanging around the body it acts as a brake on the breakdown of glucose for energy (glycolysis) and acts as a cheerleader for the manufacture of glucose from other sources (gluconeogenesis) for future use. Because one of the end products from glycolysis - pyruvate - feeds into the beginning step of the citric acid cycle and then ends up as citric acid a lot of citric acid hanging around means that glycolysis isn't needed right then. Follow on from there with what can happen in the presence of plentiful glucose and you can see how that might be detrimental. As for how much is too much? I know nobody wants to see this but...it depends. I hope this helps a bit. Metabolism is just a real mess to attempt to explain in anything approaching a coherent fashion due to how miserably everything is interwoven and interdependent - and I have only the barest overview of the stuff. Blech. ;-) take care, Carmen > I hope this helps a bit. Metabolism is just a real mess to attempt to > explain in anything approaching a coherent fashion due to how > miserably everything is interwoven and interdependent - and I have > only the barest overview of the stuff. Blech. ;-) Ditto what Carmen wrote... understanding some of the details of the bodies chemical processes are difficult enough, explaining them takes on major effort... one that I would rather leave to the technical writers. I would highly encourage everyone to just keep reading about the technical details on by the body's fuel systems work because over time some of it does start to 'jell' and make some sense. Two places that make the krebs cycle a little easier to understand: 1) walks you through cell respiration: http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio104/cellresp.htm 2) gives you basic description with links to explain most terms: http://www.degussa-health-nutrition.com/degussa/html/e/health/eng/kh/l3.1.htm I don't begin to be an expert on the krebs cycle but my understanding on why some believe that too much dietary citric acid would be a problem lays within the cells/bodies numerous feedback systems. The body will halt of slow down production of substances that it has too much off to avoid toxicity (i.e. ketone production will be halted by an insulin release to prevent the bloods pH levels from going too high). By having a too much pyruvate, and in turn acetyl-CoA already the krebs cycle may slow or halt to keep from producing more. That inturn would slow glucose metabolism. Same thing Carmen said but from a different angle. SignatureRudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond. "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" -Emiliano Zapata Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm > By having > a too much pyruvate, and in turn acetyl-CoA already the krebs cycle may > slow or halt to keep from producing more. That inturn would slow > glucose metabolism. Same thing Carmen said but from a different angle. Replying to myself to add another thought. Since citric acid is water soluble then maybe a way to avoid having a high level of it within the body is to flush it out by drinking water. Again, I've never found any research on citric acid and fat loss. But if you're experimenting to find what might help you burn bodyfat better, then reducing citric acid and/or upping water intake my be worth a try. SignatureRudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond. "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" -Emiliano Zapata Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm > > Do you (or any one else) have links to studies that show > > this, or even to a reliable on-line source that describes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > In short the idea is that too much dietary citric acid could > disrupt the krebs cycle (also known as the citric cycle). Thanks for this! I found this: http://www.bmb.leeds.ac.uk/illingworth/metabol/krebs.htm While it is interesting, I am completely baffleohed. However, I did glean on interesting tidbit: that citric acid is part of fat formation. Erm - do you know of a Krebs For Dummies site? :) Thanks, April. Signature"Things that try to look like things often do look more like things than things. Well known fact." Esmerelda Weatherwax (Pratchett 1988) > >I agree with Luna and Roger. I know that people claim aspartame is a > >staller, but I can't understand how it could be *if* you are counting [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > eating sugar -- their brain/body, for some reason, registers it as > carbohydrate and generates insulin anyway, resulting in fat storage. Yeah, I thought of this after I posted. I was too absolute; thanks for pointing out the insulin effects that I neglected to consider. I still think that reducing calories and increasing exercise is a higher percentage play, if you will, than cutting aspartame and caffeine, but as I said before each person needs to do the cost-benefit analysis for him or herself, and it's great that Nancy is willing to take steps to break her stall, so I wish her the best even if she's taking the steps in a different order than I would. carla > Atkins himself advised against diet sodas and the >like because he was of the opinion that some people have an insulin >response to artificial sweeteners, much the same as if they were >eating sugar -- their brain/body, for some reason, registers it as >carbohydrate and generates insulin anyway, resulting in fat storage. His "opinion" was wrong. Check with ASD. Sleepy --------------------------------- The True Axis of Evil Bush - Cheney - Ashcroft - Rumsfeld --------------------------------- Nancy, all of those sound like worthwhile experiments. You've done so much already--I know that you can get over this plateau. :) T. >Nancy Howells hnowells@earthwink.net writes: >b. If that doesn't do it, I'm on to axing caffeine. This is gonna be >painful, because I like my coffee, and have been drinking coffee since >Iw as quite young. I'm going to break with the pack on this one. I haven't been at this that long, but I think kicking the coffee habit helped. I tapered off instead of going cold turkey, and it wasn't that bad -- I had a mild headache on one of the transition days, but otherwise no problem. The coffee itself may not be a factor in your stall, but unless you drink it black with Splenda, it's a vehicle for dairy products carrying additional calories. That's why I eventually dropped the decaf, too. I'm drinking herb teas now, and probably will stay coffee-less until I get closer to goal weight. Anyway, it's worth a shot. If you find it too stressing to not have your daily coffee, you can add it back in. No one's forcing you to stick to the plan you laid out. As others have said, the additional exercise will probably be the most effective part of your plan. Good luck! Daria 166/148/140 sugar-free since 2/1/04 low-carb since 2/17/04 >In light of the slow-down, I'm on a new tack. Aggressive. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >to no affect earlier in the game), I'm axing aspartame for awhile to see >if that does it. I'm using Diabetisweet. I can't stand the after taste of splenda. It says it's a 1-1 ratio with sugar, but I'm using less than 1/2 with good results. >b. If that doesn't do it, I'm on to axing caffeine. This is gonna be >painful, because I like my coffee, and have been drinking coffee since >Iw as quite young. I'm not a big coffee drinker, so that wasn't a problem with me. How about switching to decaf? I drink constant comment green tea every morning. That gives me a nice warm cuppa to wake up by. >c. If neither of those work, I'm upping the exercise ante quite a bit, >somehow (time issues, but it'll be worth it). Are you lifting weights or even dumbbells? Building muscle will help burn fat faster than aerobic exercise. >d. If none of that works, I'm going to do two weeks of low-fat >high-carb and see if that breaks it, and then I'm going back to low [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >1800 calories and not going anywhere, if all of the above fails, I'm >cutting, slashing, going lower. It's doable. I've noticed lately my daily calories has been 1500-1700 a day. But then my activity level has been way down. >So, beginning today, no aspartame. > >347/260/??? >Since 8/5/02 Good luck, Nancy. May the whoosh fairy visit you soon. Yvonne >In light of the slow-down, I'm on a new tack. Aggressive. Hi Nancy! I don't have any suggestions, but I want you to know I'm rooting for you! You've been so successful already. Maybe your body is just resting up in preparation for a gigantic whoosh! :) Carol Signature227/222.5/150 Atkins since March 12, 2004 Type 2 Diabetic since May 15, 2001 |
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