Btw, I never wrote that I didn't spend time in Iraq. Although it has nothing
to do with my patriotism, I was there back in 91/92. Also spent some time
with the AF at Khobar Towers. I was well impressed with their accomodations,
if not their military discipline.

?

Have all the opinions you like.  However, just because you hold an opinion
on a topic doesn't mean it's well informed.  Your comments show your
knowledge comes from anecdotes and association, not actual experience --
particularly regarding the AF.  I'm not tap dancing, I just don't value your
opinion.  Don't take it personally.  I have no desire to argue, or "fight"
with you or your husband.  My comment about your husband was merely to say
that, in a military discussion,  I have more respect for his opinion as a
military member than that of someone who is obviously not.  Your opinion is
your own, value it.  Just don't mistake it for more than it is.

I do recall the earlier discussion with the JC very well, but I don't think
you do.  For the record, JC brought up the subject of miltary service when
he called me a REMF -- a Vietnam era term for Rear Echelon Mother f.cker --
my reply was that unless he was posting from downtown Baghdad, he's got
nothing on me.  Patriotic or not, some idiot sitting on his a.s in Texas is
in no place to say anything negative.  Particularly since he has no clue
what I do or where I have been.  I explained that to you before.  Google on
it if you don't believe me, or look here:  http://tinyurl.com/29hqx.  I
agree, questioning someone's patriotism is out of line.   For you to now
imply the AF some how "easier" is just as much out of line.  What the hell
do you know about what I did or how I lived?   Consider your own double
standard.  Are  *you* questioning my patriotism now? (not that it matters,
btw).  Repeating platitudes you overheard about how "easy" the AF has it
doesn't mean they're true (back to that opinion thing).  To rate who has it
harder is a pointless endevour and real military people don't take it
seriously.  We joke about it a lot, but there's usually an underlying mutual
respect.   If you haven't lived it, don't pretend to understand.

I'm not sure you've made a point.  You've made a few humorous jabs at the
Air Force, but little in the way of substantiated points.  I never said you
were stupid -- just the opposite -- I gave you credit for your demonstrated
intelligence, just not on this topic.  I'm questioning why you are going
down this road to begin with.  Unfortunately, you've wandered into an area
where your knowledge level obvioulsy is far different from my own.  What I
know is based on over 20 years of training, education, and near daily
experience in the military.  Not bragging about it, it's just fact.
Whatever points you've made appear to be based on hearsay and gossip.  I've
chosen not to address your points because it would be a either fruitless
exercise or one requiring more effort than I care to expend.  I don't read
ADSL-C to discuss military doctrine or policy.

Are you calling me a liar pre-emptively?  Are you saying know what I'm going
to say will be false even before I say it? Are you saying that no other
service is open to any sort of criticism?  That's just naive.  You might
want to reword that.

I'm not sure what "facts" your referring too?  Was it when you said:

"The entire plushy lifestyle the airmen are taught to expect makes for
lousy discipline, soft personnel and rotten inter-branch cooperation
when needed.  It's sad to think how many potentially good military
folks get ruined by going AF."

Or was it your silly little generalization about "disassociation with ground
troops"?  Or when you said " The aircraft exist to support and protect the
ground troops, not the  other way 'round."  That's a lot of ill- informed
assertion, and awfully shy of facts.  Not much to respond to except it's
obvious you know little about the military and less about the Air Force.

Meaningless mantra was the whole point.  As were your comment abouts about
the AF.  This conversation has been lacking in intelligence since JaCkass
made the lame push-up jab and you threw in the silly comment about the
Coasties.  Not a whole lot of intelligence from the outset in my book.
That's why I'm wondering why you chose to engage in it.  Am I giving you to
much credit?

I'm not stopping you from discussing anything.  I too will discuss what I
please.  That's the beauty of usenet, aint it :) I also try to stick to
topics I know about,  differentiate fact from opinion, and avoid subjects I
know nothing about.  I'm merely suggesting that you stick to your strengths.
Trying to debate the relative merits of specific services is not something I
find productive in real life with other military members, let alone with
civilians on usenet.   For now, you're showing up with a knife to a
gunfight.  I just choose not to play.

Oh yeah.  I've already stated that I'm an active duty member in the AF with
over 20 years in uniform.  I'm not gonna tell you what I do or where I work.
It's neither relevent nor appropriate for usenet. Leave it at that.

Tom