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OT:Sarge Post-Op Update

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Carmen - 17 Mar 2004 01:51 GMT
Hello,
Well, we're back from the hospital and Howard's surgery went well.
The surgeons left as much of the forearm as they could, and went to
great lengths to do all they could to try and prevent phantom pain
(pain that is felt in the part of the body that is no longer there).
They used a technique that involved batheing the nerve bundle with a
constant catheter of local anesthetic before, during and two days
after the surgery.  Studies show that there's a lower incidence of
phantom pain in people who're treated this way.  The proposed reason
is the nerves don't ever experience the trauma of the surgery and
therefore don't develop a "memory effect".

He's healing at lightspeed, and at two days post surgery the surgeons
(as well as myself) were really pleased with how well the wound was
doing when it was time to take the dressing off.  He had a brief
episode of fever, but that was the only untoward part of his hospital
stay.  He was operated on Tuesday morning and released Saturday
morning.  He's driving again (he'd practiced doing it one-handed for
over a month before surgery), his pain is getting better every day and
except for not being able to tie his shoes yet he's pretty much self
sufficient.  The mental part of the healing process is also going
pretty well - he finally made himself look at the stump and dealt well
with that.  He's also had no problems with public jaunts - thank
goodness for his strong sense of self.  :-)

Next step is chemo (he's got an appointment with his oncologist in
Ohio next week to plan that), and the myoelectric prosthetic fittings
will begin within a month or so as well.

Overall, things are going well.  Since some of you are probably
wondering but might not want to ask, the hand served as an excellent
teaching tool for the interns in the orthopedic arena.  Eisenhower is
a teaching hospital, and in addition to using the hand to teach I saw
several other examples.  In one case an anesthesiology tech was
teaching nurses (the anesthetic for the nerves is something that one
isn't likely to see where insurance is running the show so he had to
explain what it was for).

Thank you all for the good wishes and prayers.  I do think they helped
it go so well.  :-)

Take care,
Carmen
Susan - 17 Mar 2004 01:58 GMT
>Thank you all for the good wishes and prayers.  I do think they helped
>it go so well.  :-)
>
>Take care,
>Carmen

Carmen, if you're going to have bad news and a tough surgery, it sure as heck
pays to get great care and to have the mental and physical toughness to put it
behind you quickly.

Wishing for all good things to come for both of you.

Susan
Nancy Howells - 17 Mar 2004 02:17 GMT
> Hello,
> Well, we're back from the hospital and Howard's surgery went well.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> Take care,
> Carmen

As bad as the situation is, it's good that it's going well - hang in
there.  You're in my prayers.

Signature

Nancy Howells (don't forget to switch it, and replace the ;) to send mail).

TayaFaire - 17 Mar 2004 02:18 GMT
I'm so happy to hear that things are going so well.  Sarge must be a very
special person to have such strength to get through this ordeal.  He is an
example to us all and you are also Carmen.  I believe that all things happen
for a reason and hopefully this will lead to better things for others.  It
also is a true testament to what is possible if we have faith and hold onto
the strength that He gives us.  Please let Sarge know he will continue to be
in my thoughts and prayers.  :o)

Kelly
The Queen of Cans and Jars - 17 Mar 2004 02:19 GMT
> Overall, things are going well.

and thank dog for that.
Carol Ann - 17 Mar 2004 02:32 GMT
:: Well, we're back from the hospital and Howard's surgery went well.
:: The surgeons left as much of the forearm as they could, and went to
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
:: Take care,
:: Carmen

I'm so glad that Sarge is healing well.  My prayers continue to be with you
adn your family.

~Carol Ann
www.lowcarblosers.com ~ Home of the Monthly Weightloss Challenge
Marsha - 17 Mar 2004 02:34 GMT
> Hello,
> Well, we're back from the hospital and Howard's surgery went well.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> is the nerves don't ever experience the trauma of the surgery and
> therefore don't develop a "memory effect".

Isn't that remarkable!

> morning.  He's driving again (he'd practiced doing it one-handed for
> over a month before surgery), his pain is getting better every day and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> with that.  He's also had no problems with public jaunts - thank
> goodness for his strong sense of self.  :-)

Good planning.

> Overall, things are going well.  Since some of you are probably
> wondering but might not want to ask, the hand served as an excellent
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> isn't likely to see where insurance is running the show so he had to
> explain what it was for).

:-)

> Thank you all for the good wishes and prayers.  I do think they helped
> it go so well.  :-)

God speed, Carmen.

Marsha/Ohio
Tara. - 17 Mar 2004 09:05 GMT
> Hello,
> Well, we're back from the hospital and Howard's surgery went well.

Glad to hear things are off to a flying start.  Best of luck with the chemo.

--
Tara
www.dazzled.com/lowcarb - my homepage
Saffire - 17 Mar 2004 09:09 GMT
> Thank you all for the good wishes and prayers.  I do think they helped
> it go so well.  :-)

I'm glad to hear things went so well, Carmen.  Sarge sounds like a remarkable
man.  Your mention of phantom pain made me smile at a memory.  My elderly mother-
in-law had to have her leg amputated.  Later she was telling me about the
"fantasy pain" she kept having.  I informed her that it was "phantom pain", not
"fantasy pain" and that "fantasy pain" usually involved leather, whips and spike
heels.  She liked that one :-)

Signature

Saffire
205/165/125  -  5'2.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

revek - 17 Mar 2004 12:42 GMT
Carmen  burbled across the ether:

I'm very glad that things went well for you and Sarge.  Sending healing
vibes your way.

Hugs to both of you.
Signature

revek   www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html  lowcarbing since June
           2002 5'2" 41 F  165+/too much/size seven petite please
Just remember, if the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.

Jean B. - 17 Mar 2004 14:53 GMT
> Hello,
> Well, we're back from the hospital and Howard's surgery went well.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> Take care,
> Carmen

Well, I saw your name in another thread and was going to ask.  I'm
glad things are going as well as they are.  I have been thinking
about both of you--and did remember the date of the surgery,
because it was my mom's b'day.  Hugs to both of you.
Signature

Jean B.

Cheri - 17 Mar 2004 20:55 GMT
I'm so glad that things went as well as they could. I've been thinking
about you, but afraid to ask. Thanks for letting us know, and make sure
to take care of yourself through all of this too Carmen.

--
Cheri
Type 2, no meds for now.

>> Hello,
>> Well, we're back from the hospital and Howard's surgery went well.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>> Take care,
>> Carmen
martymkm@webtv.net - 17 Mar 2004 15:11 GMT
Hello,
Well, we're back from the hospital and Howard's surgery went well. The
surgeons left as much of the forearm as they could, and went to great
lengths to do all they could to try and prevent phantom pain (pain that
is felt in the part of the body that is no longer there). They used a
technique that involved batheing the nerve bundle with a constant
catheter of local anesthetic before, during and two days after the
surgery. Studies show that there's a lower incidence of phantom pain in
people who're treated this way. The proposed reason is the nerves don't
ever experience the trauma of the surgery and therefore don't develop a
"memory effect".
He's healing at lightspeed, and at two days post surgery the surgeons
(as well as myself) were really pleased with how well the wound was
doing when it was time to take the dressing off. He had a brief episode
of fever, but that was the only untoward part of his hospital stay. He
was operated on Tuesday morning and released Saturday morning. He's
driving again (he'd practiced doing it one-handed for over a month
before surgery), his pain is getting better every day and except for not
being able to tie his shoes yet he's pretty much self sufficient. The
mental part of the healing process is also going pretty well - he
finally made himself look at the stump and dealt well with that. He's
also had no problems with public jaunts - thank goodness for his strong
sense of self. :-)
Next step is chemo (he's got an appointment with his oncologist in Ohio
next week to plan that), and the myoelectric prosthetic fittings will
begin within a month or so as well.
Overall, things are going well. Since some of you are probably wondering
but might not want to ask, the hand served as an excellent teaching tool
for the interns in the orthopedic arena. Eisenhower is a teaching
hospital, and in addition to using the hand to teach I saw several other
examples. In one case an anesthesiology tech was teaching nurses (the
anesthetic for the nerves is something that one isn't likely to see
where insurance is running the show so he had to explain what it was
for).

--------------------------------

Carmen, you have a truly remarkable man there. And you're not to shabby
yourself!
<G> I'm so glad all went well. I wish all the best for both of you.

Regards; Marty
RRzVRR - 17 Mar 2004 15:17 GMT
> thank goodness for his strong sense of self.  :-)

And the support of a strong woman.

> Overall, things are going well.

Keep us posted.

Signature

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April Goodwin-Smith - 17 Mar 2004 23:10 GMT
> Hello,
> Well, we're back from the hospital and Howard's surgery
> went well.  <snip>

Excellent!

Best wishes to the pair of you!

April.
Put out the cat.
Signature

"Things that try to look like things often do look more
like things than things.  Well known fact."
Esmerelda Weatherwax  (Pratchett 1988)

eff - 18 Mar 2004 06:54 GMT
"Carmen" <carmensrt@hotmail.com> wrote...

Hey--I missed this yesterday.

Glad to hear things are going well (overall).  I've read and re-read your post.
You have an amazing capacity to pluck the positive out of really shitty
situations.  You understand that as bad as it sometimes gets, it could always be
worse.  I just love that about you.

All the best to you and yours.

eff
Alice Faber - 18 Mar 2004 16:15 GMT
> "Carmen" <carmensrt@hotmail.com> wrote...
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> All the best to you and yours.

You said it, and much more eloquently and succinctly than I could have.
Best of everything to Sarge and to Carmen.

Signature

AF

Martha Gallagher - 18 Mar 2004 21:37 GMT
> > "Carmen" <carmensrt@hotmail.com> wrote...
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> You said it, and much more eloquently and succinctly than I could have.
> Best of everything to Sarge and to Carmen.

What Alice said.

And let us know how we can help.

Martha

Signature

Begin where you are - but don't end there.

jamie - 18 Mar 2004 20:05 GMT
I'm so glad to hear that he's recovering from surgery so well.

Signature

 jamie  (jamiemck@newsguy.com)

         "There's a seeker born every minute."

Lorelei - 18 Mar 2004 21:41 GMT
Glad to here all is well Carmen. All is well here too.

Signature

Lori
220/156/150
LC since 1/17/03
Devoted wife of Curtis, Stage 4 Prostate cancer at age 40
http://community.webshots.com/user/lorismiller-date

> Hello,
> Well, we're back from the hospital and Howard's surgery went well.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> Take care,
> Carmen
revek - 19 Mar 2004 02:35 GMT
Lorelei  burbled across the ether:
> Glad to here all is well Carmen. All is well here too.

Good to hear it.  You don't share much (and that's ok) but I was
wondering.
Signature

revek   www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html  lowcarbing since June
           2002 5'2" 41 F  165+/too much/size seven petite please
USA Today has come out with a new survey: Apparently three out of four
people make up 75 percent of the population.

Carmen - 19 Mar 2004 17:10 GMT
Hi,

> Glad to here all is well Carmen. All is well here too.

I think about you and Curt a lot.  Cancer is such a crap shoot, and
you two got a nasty hand.  Take care of each other and yourselves.
Enjoy what there is to enjoy.

May Fate be kind.

take care,
Carmen
TdN - 19 Mar 2004 05:21 GMT
I am so glad to hear that the surgery went smoothly, and that Sarge's
recovery is progressing so well!  It sounds like he's getting great
care.

I hope your daughter is doing OK.  I know you are probably very
conscious of respecting her privacy on the NG, but do know that many
of us are thinking about her, too.  Parents are supposed to be
indestructible, after all, and it's scary when we realize they aren't.
I am definitely thinking of her as well as you and Sarge!

Best,

T.
Carmen - 19 Mar 2004 17:05 GMT
Hello all,
Once again the support is a wonderful source of strength for us.
Howard is still getting better all the time.  His stitches come out on
Monday, there's still no sign of phantom pain (I liked Saffire's
grandmother's "fantasy pain" <G>), and the overall pain level is
dropping.  We've gone out and done a few geocaches (the weather is a
gorgeous mid 60s to 70 degrees F - 18 to 21 C) and plan on going to a
hamfest on Saturday.  His coworkers and our friends have reacted well
so far - there've been a few of them that were visibly weirded out but
they took their cue from Howard and relaxed after a while.  Most
people seem surprised by how good he looks.   You'd think an
amputation would take more of a toll than it has on him.
Thank you for the kind words, prayers and good wishes.

Take care,
Carmen
JD - 19 Mar 2004 17:26 GMT
> Hello all,
> Once again the support is a wonderful source of strength for us.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Take care,
> Carmen

What's this going to do to his career? Is Uncle Sugar going to medically
retire him or are they going to find a way for him keep on serving?

JD
Carmen - 19 Mar 2004 18:41 GMT
Hi,

> What's this going to do to his career? Is Uncle Sugar going to
> medically retire him or are they going to find a way for him keep on
> serving?

He's over 20, (21 in June) so if he retired it'd be a regular
retirement.  He wasn't planning on retiring before the surgery and has
no intention of doing so now either.  We found out that amputation is
not necessarily a career ender - quite a surprise to us.  General
Tommy Franks has been an amputee (lower leg) since he was a
lieutenant.  One of our retired Army buddies saw him out running with
the prosthetic back when he was still in.
Nowadays they aren't automatically retiring folks with amputations.
They are required to go through an MEB, but if they can function
without the part (even if it's with a prosthetic) they can either
continue to serve in their present MOS or they may be reclassed to
another one if that's more sensible.  In Divarty there's two others
with Iraq amputations who're coming back to serve in 101st.
Howard would much rather continue to serve.  There's one more stripe
to earn yet.  :-)

Take care,
Carmen
JD - 20 Mar 2004 04:06 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Howard would much rather continue to serve.  There's one more stripe
> to earn yet.  :-)

That's cool. Only one stripe? You mean he's not going to shoot for the whole
enchilada and go for CSM?

JD
JC Der Koenig - 20 Mar 2004 04:52 GMT
> > Hi,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> JD

Why not a stripe and a couple of stars?
Carmen - 21 Mar 2004 14:19 GMT
Hi,

> > > Howard would much rather continue to serve.  There's one more
> > > stripe to earn yet.  :-)
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Why not a stripe and a couple of stars?

He's not a politician.  He tells the truth even if it makes himself
look bad.  It's part of why I love him, and a big reason he'd never
get near such an influential slot.  Thank Fate, God, or what have you
for *that*.  ;-)

Take care,
Carmen
JC Der Koenig - 21 Mar 2004 14:27 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> get near such an influential slot.  Thank Fate, God, or what have you
> for *that*.  ;-)

Sergeant Major is always a political position. First Sergeant is the highest
functional slot. IMHO, of course.
Carmen - 21 Mar 2004 18:41 GMT
Hi,

> > > > > Howard would much rather continue to serve.  There's one
> > > > >more stripe to earn yet.  :-)
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Sergeant Major is always a political position. First Sergeant is the
> highest functional slot. IMHO, of course.

True, but being selected for Sergeant Major is a much less political
process than CSM is, and *way* less than Sergeant Major of the Army
is.  That's why he's got a chance of seeing sergeant major based on
his merits, despite the lack of a.s kissing skills.  ;-)

Take care,
Carmen
Carmen - 21 Mar 2004 14:15 GMT
Hi JD,

> > Howard would much rather continue to serve.  There's one more
> > stripe to earn yet.  :-)
>
> That's cool. Only one stripe? You mean he's not going to shoot for
> the whole enchilada and go for CSM?

<laughing>  He is, and has been for some time.  I'll be happy to see
him make the highest *rank* he can hold as a noncomm, but his goal is
highest rank and higher slot within that rank.  He'd make a good CSM,
since that job is still caring for soldiers (the seniors usually).
I'm unsure whether his style will be seen as CSM material though.  His
leadership style isn't the typical sort one sees in a CSM.  It gets
the job done, and even troops he's hammered have thanked him for his
fairness upon his leaving a battery but he doesn't fit the CSM
profile.

Take care,
Carmen
martymkm@webtv.net - 19 Mar 2004 18:24 GMT
His stitches come out on Monday, there's still no sign of phantom pain
(I liked Saffire's grandmother's "fantasy pain" <G>)

--------------------------------

If it's even a tiny bit of consolation to Sarge, (if it works), he's
lucky that he had the procedure available to him that censures his
phantom pain. I lost my left ring finger in 1982 due to a dog bite and
wish they had it back then. To this day it causes me pain and
discomfort. It even itches at times! I can have an opaque drink of some
kind in my hand (where I can't actually see my fingers) and it feels
like it is actually still there. It's weird. I can only imagine what it
would be like for him had he not had this done to him....My thoughts are
with you both.

Best Regards; Marty
Carmen - 20 Mar 2004 03:03 GMT
Hi Marty,

> His stitches come out on Monday, there's still no sign of phantom
> pain (I liked Saffire's grandmother's "fantasy pain" <G>)
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> thoughts
> are with you both.

I'm sorry the phantom pain is dogging you.  There just doesn't seem to
be any effective way of stopping it.  The medical community now
realizes it's not psychological but physiological but that hasn't lead
to any breakthroughs yet.  He does feel like his hand is still there
sometimes, but it's "located" where his arm ends in the stump.  It
telescoped in.
If I see any promising stuff on phantom pain I'll send it your way.

Take care,
Carmen
NOTE to nonamputees: 'Telescoping' describes a phenomenon where the
extremity that is no longer there is still sensed but has 'moved' to
the end of the residual limb (inside it).  In Howard's case he feels
like his hand is still there curled up into a fist inside the end of
the stump.  He even 'feels' the fingertips tingle like they're falling
asleep.  It's not painful but it is at odds with the physical reality.
martymkm@webtv.net - 20 Mar 2004 03:36 GMT
The medical community now realizes it's not psychological but
physiological but that hasn't lead to any breakthroughs yet.

--------------------------------

The Drs. tried to tell me it was all in my imagination back then. Yeah,
right....
Over the years I've learned to deal with it. One thing that's kind of
difficult is finding gloves that fit. :-/  It still gets cold just like
it's still there....
I'd sure appreciate any updates you could pass along to me.

Thanks; Marty
Carmen - 21 Mar 2004 18:56 GMT
Hi,
<Talking about Phantom Pain>
> The medical community now realizes it's not psychological but
> physiological but that hasn't lead to any breakthroughs yet.
> --------------------------------

> The Drs. tried to tell me it was all in my imagination back then.
> Yeah, right....
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> like it's still there....
> I'd sure appreciate any updates you could pass along to me.

Will do.  Much of what I've read suggests that phantom pain is the
result of the brain misinterpreting the nerve impulses coming up the
affected nerve as still having it's previous termination point - in
the case of your finger that would mean that impulses that reach the
end you still have of the nerve that used to supply the ring finger
(ulnar nerve) gets fed to the brain as coming from the location they
used to terminate in.  Perhaps the neuroma (the end of the nerve
that's left after healing) cannot discriminate properly between the
various sensations it gets (heat, cold, touch) and just sends "pain"
for everything.  If you think about it damaged muscle and skin can no
longer effectively transmit the right sensations so perhaps nerves do
the same thing.

Just a theory.  :-)

Take care,
Carmen
martymkm@webtv.net - 21 Mar 2004 23:41 GMT
Perhaps the neuroma (the end of the nerve that's left after healing)
cannot discriminate properly between the various sensations it gets
(heat, cold, touch) and just sends "pain" for everything. If you think
about it damaged muscle and skin can no longer effectively transmit the
right sensations so perhaps nerves do the same thing.

--------------------------------

I was told also that the muscles, tendons,  and nerves going to the
missing finger were attached to the neighboring ones so  I guess I got
an extra bonus. Lucky me! :-/

Best Wishes; Marty
TdN - 22 Mar 2004 16:31 GMT
> Over the years I've learned to deal with it. One thing that's kind of
> difficult is finding gloves that fit. :-/  It still gets cold just like
> it's still there....

!  The father of an elementary-school friend of mine had special
winter gloves with lambswool stuffed into the glove-finger that
corresponded to his missing finger.  I could never figure out why he
did that (he didn't wear a glove indoors), but now I know.

Thank you for solving a 30-year-old mystery!

Best,

T.
martymkm@webtv.net - 23 Mar 2004 06:56 GMT
T. wrote:
The father of an elementary-school friend of mine had special winter
gloves with lambswool stuffed into the glove-finger that corresponded to
his missing finger. I could never figure out why he did that (he didn't
wear a glove indoors), but now I know.
Thank you for solving a 30-year-old mystery!

--------------------------------

That's what I do, and to keep the empty part from just flopping around.
But doing this almost got my butt kicked. I had on a pair of new (very
stiff) leather gloves on a couple of winters ago and was driving around
doing errands, when I kept noticing the guy in front of me repeatedly
checking his rearview mirror, as if he was real angry about something.
See where this is going yet? Weeell, to make a long story short, my
recently stuffed finger was sticking straight up at him. Apparently he
thought I was giving him the finger. <G> Needless to say that's what he
gave me, along with a few obscenities screamed out his window! I just
scrunched up my shoulders at him as if to say, oh well....

Best Regards; Marty
JC Der Koenig - 23 Mar 2004 12:51 GMT
Now that's funny!

> T. wrote:
> The father of an elementary-school friend of mine had special winter
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Best Regards; Marty
Aramanth Dawe - 22 Mar 2004 05:21 GMT
>I lost my left ring finger in 1982 due to a dog bite and
>wish they had it back then. To this day it causes me pain and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Best Regards; Marty

My BIL lost part of one foot to gangrene as a complication of diabetic
neuropathy (T1 since his early teens) about 5 years before his death.
He often commented that since he hadn't felt his feet in years, so he
didn't think it would be a problem - but it was.  He had plenty of
phantom pain even though he couldn't feel that area pre-surgery or any
other part of his foot post-surgery!

Aramanth
 
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