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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / March 2004Let's talk supplements
Prior to LC, I rarely took supplements. Now, as part of an overall plan of improving my health, I'm taking some. I started with a basic multi and calcium, and have added a few others I learned about here and elsewhere in my 'net perusal. I thought it would be interesting to learn what supplements people are taking and gather them all in one thread for discussion. Here's what I take: * Multivitamin: One-a-Day Women * Calcium: 500 mg, because even the women's multi doesn't seem to have enough calcium. * Flax Oil Capsule: I wanted to boost my omega-3 fatty acids. * Glucosamine/chondroitin: I'm curious to see if it (along with the weight training) will help my crunchy knees * Chromium Picolinate: after doing some research I'm pretty sure this is useless, but I've got the bottle so I'll take it until I run out. It's a handful, but it's a good way to make sure I drink 12 oz. of water before leaving my house in the morning ... carla >I thought it would be interesting to learn what supplements people are >taking and gather them all in one thread for discussion. Hmm... In the AM I take a Kirkland (costco brand) "High Energy Pack" It has seven pills- 1000mg vitamin C w/ rose hips, 400 IU of vit. E, chromium picolinate, 100mg ginseng concentrate, a multivitamin/mineral, and two 600mg calcium tablets. I add flax seed and fish oil capsules, plus 1000mg of B5. I take the oils and B5 again in the evening, and sometimes add some melatonin. LCing since 12/01/03- Me- 5'7" 265/220/140 & hubby- 6' 310/239/180 > Hmm... In the AM I take a Kirkland (costco brand) "High Energy Pack" It has > seven pills- 1000mg vitamin C w/ rose hips, 400 IU of vit. E, chromium [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > LCing since 12/01/03- I wonder about the Chromium picolinate. See this: http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/ds/dsChromium.php Trouble with picolinate Chromium supplements come in several forms, never as pure chromium. You can buy chromium picolinate, chromium chloride, chromium nicotinate, and high-chromium yeast. Nicotinate and picolinate seem more easily absorbed than the others. There have been safety concerns about chromium picolinate, however, since laboratory studies have found that it could damage genetic material in animal cells, which suggests it might cause cancer. It seems to be the combination of chromium and picolinate that's the potential problem, not the chromium alone. Of course, what happens in a test tube or in lab animals might not happen in the human body. But the bottom line is that nobody knows whether chromium supplements, particularly in large doses over the long term, are safe or effective. In May, England's Food Standards Agency, a food-safety watchdog group set up by Parliament, concluded that chromium picolinate can potentially cause cancer, and warned consumers not to take it. Pat in TX || Hmm... In the AM I take a Kirkland (costco brand) "High Energy Pack" It || has seven pills- 1000mg vitamin C w/ rose hips, 400 IU of vit. E, [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] | | Pat in TX I don't know what the author of that article's agenda is, but it is very biased and unnecessarily negative about issues that are purely speculative. I put chromium picolinate's "potential to cause cancer" in the same category as that of saccharine in Sweet n' Low, and nitrites in bacon. Speculation, no foundation. People have been speculating about the cancer potential of these things for years, and not one single case has been documented in humans from these sources despite millions of consumers using the products daily. Here is a more balanced assessment of chromium froma reputable natural health website that compares the benefits to the possible drawbacks: http://tinyurl.com/2pg8r Personally I take 400 mcg daily; I believe that I'm realizing the benefits of chromium in combination with my other supplements.  SignaturePeter 270/228/180 website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo > I don't know what the author of that article's agenda is, but it is very > biased and unnecessarily negative about issues that are purely speculative. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Personally I take 400 mcg daily; I believe that I'm realizing the benefits > of chromium in combination with my other supplements. You do realize that the cite I gave was the University of California at Berkley and the one you gave was from a "natural health website"? They're not biased at all, right? Pat in TX || I don't know what the author of that article's agenda is, but it is very || biased and unnecessarily negative about issues that are purely [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] | | Pat in TX No need to get hostile over a difference of opinion! I guess I'm just a natural optimist. Interestingly, I have a sister who is the opposite of me -- she sees the dark side of everything, and we have many lively discussions! We are both diabetic and have genetic high cholesterol and triglyceride levels as well . I am able to control mine completely with diet and nutrition, holistically, no meds. She takes several medications for cholesterol and triglycerides, as well as two medications for diabetes. She follows the ADA diet, food exchanges and all, to a tee. Her blood lipids stay higher than normal despite all the drugs; her blood sugar remains out of control, and she continues to gain weight. She has diabetic neuropathy in her feet and pain in her thighs, and has recently begun to develop heart problems. She is approaching 300 pounds and continues to gain weight. In answer to your question, all I can say is that the natural, common sense remedies work beautifully for me, and my sister continues to worsen with her traditional, "scientific" chemical treatments. Thanks but no thanks, I'll lnot listen to the scaremongers. I'll go with what has proven to work for me! BTW, I have a very close friend who is a biochemist and works for the California university system. She was initially skeptical of my low-carb/nutritional approach, but has seen what it has done for me -- not just in weight loss, but in tremendous improvements in pverall physical and mental health. She now supports me 100%. As far as the Chromium Picolinate goes, you'lll note that even the negative articles/studies state that it has little effect on weight loss *in "healthy" individuals.* An overweight individual is not "healthy," and this is the type of person that chromium indeed does have beneficial effects for. Including helping to reduce blood serum LDL cholesterol, raising HDL cholesterol, and helping to increase insulin sensitivity. You are right, a normal-weight, ("healthy") person probably will not lose weight or realize other significant health benefits from taking chromium supplements. Of course as with anything else, YMMV. If someone wants to stop taking Chromium Picolinate because of one article, I guess that's entirely up to them. And I wish them well. :) SignaturePeter 270/228/180 website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo :: Pat wrote: :::: I don't know what the author of that article's agenda is, but it [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] :: her thighs, and has recently begun to develop heart problems. She :: is approaching 300 pounds and continues to gain weight. I've heard this several times now...I don't see why see doesn't adopt your approach....what has she to lose (beyond the weight, I mean)? :: In answer to your question, all I can say is that the natural, :: common sense remedies work beautifully for me, and my sister :: continues to worsen with her traditional, "scientific" chemical :: treatments. Thanks but no thanks, I'll lnot listen to the :: scaremongers. I'll go with what has proven to work for me! The thing is, can you be sure what is working and what is not? That, imo, is the problem with supplements. :: BTW, I have a very close friend who is a biochemist and works for the :: California university system. She was initially skeptical of my :: low-carb/nutritional approach, but has seen what it has done for me :: -- not just in weight loss, but in tremendous improvements in :: pverall physical and mental health. She now supports me 100%. I support you 100% too, but I'm still not sure which supplement is really doing anything, and I take a bunch too (and I'm not sure they're doing jack for me, either, but I just say "what they hey, I ain't dead yet") :: As far as the Chromium Picolinate goes, you'lll note that even the :: negative articles/studies state that it has little effect on weight :: loss *in "healthy" individuals.* An overweight individual is not :: "healthy," and this is the type of person that chromium indeed does :: have beneficial effects for. Why is it that an overweight person is not "healthy"? Please comment further on that. Surely, one can see the many pitfalls associated with such a statement. Including helping to reduce blood serum :: LDL cholesterol, raising HDL cholesterol, and helping to increase :: insulin sensitivity. You are right, a normal-weight, ("healthy") :: person probably will not lose weight or realize other significant :: health benefits from taking chromium supplements. If a normal weight person has high LDL and low HDL and is starting to become insulin resistant, why not? Many people simply have bad cholesterol regardless of weight and diet. :: Of course as with anything else, YMMV. If someone wants to stop :: taking Chromium Picolinate because of one article, I guess that's :: entirely up to them. And I wish them well. :) I take supplements mainly because I still believe in miracles (call me stupid if you want)....the same reason I'm a LCer....LC is a miracle for me. [snip] > As far as the Chromium Picolinate goes, you'lll note that even the negative > articles/studies state that it has little effect on weight loss *in > "healthy" individuals.* An overweight individual is not "healthy," and this > is the type of person that chromium indeed does have beneficial effects for. [snip] The studies that I read didn't make the distinction between "healthy" and "unhealthy" the way you are making it - rather, they said that chromium might be beneficial for *diabetics* who don't get enough chromium in their diets. I am not diabetic, and my understanding was that the population studied (diabetics in China) have a significantly different diet from the typical diet in the U.S. - and that in the U.S., one is likely already getting enough chromium. As I recall, this was information I found on the WebMD website. I am sure that, like many things metabolic, the effect of the supplement depends on many variables and is yet poorly understood. I'm taking chromium now but I am going to stop when I run out. I don't see any evidence that it's doing anything for me, nor do I see any evidence that it should be. But that's just me and my decision. carla > > As far as the Chromium Picolinate goes, you'lll note that even the > negative [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > carla It sounds to me that there is more 'faith' than objectivity going on with many people when it comes to such supplements. Pat in TX :::: As far as the Chromium Picolinate goes, you'lll note that even the :::: negative articles/studies state that it has little effect on [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] :: It sounds to me that there is more 'faith' than objectivity going on :: with many people when it comes to such supplements. Of course....it's the nature of the game.... [I wrote:] > > The studies that I read didn't make the distinction between "healthy" and > > "unhealthy" the way you are making it - rather, they said that chromium [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > > But that's just me and my decision. [Pat wrote:] > It sounds to me that there is more 'faith' than objectivity going on with > many people when it comes to such supplements. I'm not sure if your comment was meant to mean that I was showing more faith than objectivity, or if you were referring to others - I hope you weren't referring to me because I thought my position was fairly rational. :-) At any rate, however, I rather agree with you, but I think it's the nature of the beast - what evidence exists is confusing and inconclusive, because it is very hard to isolate single variables in this kind of study. So even if one wants to be objective it's difficult to do so. I have a very rational friend who swears that chromium picolinate reduces her cravings. She knows what the evidence is, and says that even if it's a placebo effect it seems to work for her so she's just going to keep taking it. carla cmtlevy@yahoo.com (carla) wrote in news:7a12959.0403181439.64082765 @posting.google.com: > I thought it would be interesting to learn what supplements people are > taking and gather them all in one thread for discussion. Thanks for starting this thread; I'm curious about what others do too. What I take: fish oil vitamin E glucosamine-chondroitin multivitamin calcium fiber tabs acidophilus potassium And I'm going to add folic acid. My dog and I share the bottles for the first 3 items on my list. Cate I've been taking tee Atkins Basic, Essential Oils and Dieter's advantage Vitamins since I started Atkins in Dec 2003. I decided to take a supplement to assure myself that I was getting all the nourishment I needed on this new-to-me way of life. I haven't been this faithful taking pills since birth control pills! The atkins vitamins seemed expensive, I tried to find a cheaper alternative, but they have everything in them and it limits how many pills I need to take a day. The Starter Kit at Wal-Mart seems to be the best price. I add left over herbs & misc. supp.s that I'm taking just to use them up before they expire that I have, like licorice root (digestion), ginseng, fenugreek. these just happen to be in the Atkins morning cleanse- for colon health, and keep my plumbing going. Start slowly on these till you know how many you need to stay regular. SignatureDiane Atkins since 12/4/2003 234/208/150 5"8 > cmtlevy@yahoo.com (carla) wrote in news:7a12959.0403181439.64082765 > @posting.google.com: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Cate | I've been taking tee Atkins Basic, Essential Oils and Dieter's | advantage Vitamins since I started Atkins in Dec 2003. I decided to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | pills I need to take a day. The Starter Kit at Wal-Mart seems to be | the best price. Consider these as replacements for Attkins viatamins. They are not on sale now but often are. Willvites Multi-Vitamin Multi-Mineral http://nt9.nyic.com/willner/descriptions/30439.htm Lipoxidant Complex http://nt9.nyic.com/willner/descriptions/30443.htm Kevin > Here's what I take: i take 800 mgs of Magnesium Citrate for pain a couple of tums per day for calcium :-p the rest i get from lots of fish, fresh veggies, fresh fruit, dairy products, and a moderate amount of whole or sprouted grains. -kelly > Prior to LC, I rarely took supplements. Now, as part of an overall > plan of improving my health, I'm taking some. I started with a basic [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > It's a handful, but it's a good way to make sure I drink 12 oz. of > water before leaving my house in the morning ... i take a daily multi (no iron), calcium, flax oil, fish oil and garlic. i take potassium occasionally as needed. | I thought it would be interesting to learn what supplements people are ------------------------- A few months ago my cousin turned me on to holistic healing through food and nutritional supplement choices. She lost more than 100 pounds a few years ago and has kept it off; she completely controls her formerly debilitating fibromyalgia through natural means. Some may laugh at all the supplements I take, but there is a specific reason and purpose for each. I've done substantial research and have tweaked dosages and frequency to meet my individual needs. In the past three months I've lowered my deadly levels of triglycerides, along with cholesterol and very high HbA1c and blood glucose all to near or within normal ranges through diet (low-carb) and nutritional supplements. By eating right and setting aside 5 minutes each morning and evening to take my fistful of supplements , I've managed to avoid taking any prescription meds for these conditions while conquering them and tremendously improving my overall health. On my last Dr. visit, she even told me that according to my tests I am "no longer considered to be diabetic." Of course I know that I have to maintain my regimen to keep it this way. Garlic (enteric coated) 800 mg Flax Oil Capsules (Omega 3) 12,000 mg Niacin (Timed-release) 500 mg High-Potency B-Complex: (B1-100 mg, B2-100 mg, B6-100 mg, B12,100 mcg, Biotin-100 mg, Pantheatic acid-100 , Folate-400 mcg) Grape Seed Extract 400 mg Selenium 60 mcg Green Tea Extract 500 mg Magnesium 400 mg Zinc 15 mg Calcium 1,000 mg Beta Carotene 15mg L-Carnitine 1,000 mg Vitamin C 2,000 mg Calcium 1000 mg Vitamin E 400 IU Chromium Picolinate 400 mcg Co-Enzyme Q10 (CoQ10) 300 mg Evening Primrose Oil 3,000 mg Alpha lipoic acic 900 mg - plus- a multivitamin! (to cover micronutients such as phosphorus that I do not get enough of in my lc diet) ----------------------------- Here are the changes in my blood lipids and BG since I started this regimen: 12/15/03 3/15/04 Weight: 270 228 ( -42 pounds !) Fasting BG: 135 90 (- 45 !) HbA1c: 9.0 6.0 (- 3.0!) Total Cholesterol: 234 188 (- 46 points!) HDL Cholesterol: 37 38 (+ 1) LDL Cholesterol: * 106 VLDL " * 44 Triglycerides: 625 219 (- 406 points!) * LDL and VLDL could not be measured previously because triglycerides were so high. --- Peter 270/228/180 website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo > | I thought it would be interesting to learn what supplements people are > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > 270/228/180 > website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo Can you comment on why you take these or what you consider these good for? I know I can search online but interested in your opinion. Grape Seed Extract 400 mg Evening Primrose Oil 3,000 mg Alpha lipoic acicd 900 mg Green Tea Extract Sid... | Can you comment on why you take these or what you consider these good for? | I know I can search online but interested in your opinion. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | | Sid... Hi Sid, Sure, be glad to comment. Let me emphasize first, though, that the supplements I've listed are what I've found work for me and my particular metabolism and health problems; I really believe that it's a YMMV thing for everyone. Also, the benefits of some of the supplements I take are just anecdotal and some are still being studied. For me, I've had a stroke so I try to find nutrients that not only help increase insulin sensitivity to help me lose weight, but also to improve circulation, lower blood pressure, and lower cholesterol. I'm certainly no medical doctor of expert of any sort and not qualified to give medical advice; but I do like to have a say in my own treatment. Every supplement that I take I've run by my doctor first to make sure that it's safe for me. (She told me last week that I'm a pain in the a.s! <g>) She's been amazed and delighted by the changes in me in past few months and said that I'm her "star" patient! Having said that, to anwer your question: Grape Seed Extract (GSE): Increases circulation, reduces blood pressure, increases HDL/reduces LDL cholesterol, lowers tryglycerides, improves night vision. There are many other alleged anecdotal benefits still being studied. Alpha Lipioc Acid: Very powerful antioxidant, many times more potent than Vitamins C or E. In fact, besides its own benefits, it recycles C and E and enhances their effects also. Helps prevent cholesterol from oxidizing and forming plaque in the arteries. Assists the B vitamins in producing energy from the proteins, carbohydrates, and fats consumed through foods. (Indirectly helps weight loss and safely gives more energy). It has been shown to slow and prevent nerve damage caused by diabetic neuropathy; it reduces the numbness/tingling. I take ALA partly for this reason; I've had a stroke and am experimenting on myself to see if it can help alleviate some of my residual numbness/tingling in my right hand and foot. Also for its potent antioxidant effect. Evening Primrose Oil: It's a remarkably rich source of gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), an essential fatty acid that also has been proven to reduce and even *reverse* nerve-end damage! There have been some dramatic results in studies done with GLA in actually reversing diabetic neuropathy; they are even studying it as a possible treatment for MS because of this singular nerve-sheath healing property! It acts as an anti-inflammatory, and besides healing nerve endings has the potential to reverse many inflammation-related disorders, including difficult to treat auto-immune conditions such as eczema, rosacea, lupus symptoms, acne, and even alzheimer's memory loss! Because it promotes blood flow, it also helps a variety of other aliments, including making healthier hair and nails; even alleviating male impotency and female infertility. Here's the kicker: Studies have shown that taken together with Alpha Lipoic Acid, GLA's potential properties of remarkable healing of damaged nerves is greatly increased. And all this from a natural oil found in a flower! It's been used for centuries by Native Americans as a powerful healing balm. Green Tea Extract: Green tea has been proven to lower cholesterol and blood pressure, and again, contains a powerful anti-oxidant. It's been used for centuries in China for its medicinal purposes, and has far-ranging properties that are not just anecdotal anymore. Daily intake of green tea allegedly can help prevent many types of cancer -- as well as seemingly slow the aging process -- as shown by a large-scale study in China. Too many alleged benefits to go into here; I take it for its cholesterol and blood pressure benefits. Here's an excellent website for finding information on just about any type of nutritional supplement. They are not selling anything, they just provide a free service. Including an online whole health reference library with plain English information about just about everything associated with alternative/complementary medicine. http://www.wholehealthmd.com/reflib/0,1529,,00.html SignaturePeter 270/228/180 website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo > | Can you comment on why you take these or what you consider these good for? > | I know I can search online but interested in your opinion. [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > alternative/complementary medicine. > http://www.wholehealthmd.com/reflib/0,1529,,00.html Thanks for the info. I noted the site when you mentioned in a different post. I figured most of these were for the antioxidant benefits but I see that you have other particular reasons diabetes stroke and cholesterol. Sid... Peter, You do take a pretty comprehensive approach for cardiovascular health and general well being. Here are some of my thoughts. Kevin <snip> | Some may laugh at all the supplements I take, <snip> | Flax Oil Capsules (Omega 3) 12,000 mg My reading would suggest more benefit from 6000 - 8000 mg Fish Oil capsules and forgo the Flax oil. | Niacin (Timed-release) 500 mg Consider 500 - 1000 mg Inositol Hexanicotinate (flush free Niacin). Standard time release Niacin may be harmful especially if you were to take over 500mg. | High-Potency B-Complex: (B1-100 mg, B2-100 mg, B6-100 mg, | B12,100 mcg, Biotin-100 mg, Pantheatic acid-100 , Folate-400 mcg) B-complex is especially important as you raise the Niacin levels. Very good! <snip> | Co-Enzyme Q10 (CoQ10) 300 mg You have a larger budget then me! | Evening Primrose Oil 3,000 mg Consider Borage oil. <snip> Many people may want to consider two products that will cover many of the bases: Willvites Multi-Vitamin Multi-Mineral http://nt9.nyic.com/willner/descriptions/30439.htm Lipoxidant Complex http://nt9.nyic.com/willner/descriptions/30443.htm | Peter, | | You do take a pretty comprehensive approach for cardiovascular health and | general well being. Here are some of my thoughts. <snip> | My reading would suggest more benefit from 6000 - 8000 mg Fish Oil | capsules and forgo the Flax oil. You're right, except ... I can't stand the fishy-tasting belches all day after I swallow all those fish oil capsules! Been there, done that LOL. I settle for close to the equivalent of close to 1 tblsp of flax oil (14g). Seems to be working ok as a substitute, without the nasty side effect. || Niacin (Timed-release) 500 mg | Consider 500 - 1000 mg Inositol Hexanicotinate (flush free Niacin). | Standard time release Niacin may be harmful especially if you were to take | over 500mg. Again, you're absolutely right, exept ...in this case I'm taking what my doctor directly recommended. It's an Upsher-Smith brand "polygel"-coated, "controlled-release" nicotinic acid (niacin). This was suggeseted to help improve HDL/LDL ratios. <snip> || Co-Enzyme Q10 (CoQ10) 300 mg | You have a larger budget then me! Yep, it's pricey all right! But I found a great bargain at WalMart last month so stocked up on it. They were selling "Nature's Own" 150mg CoQ10 gel caps (30 per bottle) for $14.95. This is about half of the nearest cheapest price that I'd seen! Even 75mg CoQ10 is usually more expensive than this. When I buy my supplements, I also remind myself that all the ones that I take monthly still costs quite a bit less than one monthly prescription for statins and metformin! || Evening Primrose Oil 3,000 mg | Consider Borage oil. Actually, I have considered borage oil, and I may try it eventually. The main reason that I'm going with the Evening Primrose Oil for now is that the combination of that + the ALA is recommended in Dr. Bernstein's "Diabetes Solution" as his combination of choice for preventing diabetic neuropathy. As I mentioned in my post, I'm experimenting with its effect on the residual numbness/tingling from my stroke. (BTW, that was in 1998 and the neurologist claimed 5 years ago that I would have no further improvements. He said that all of the healing to damaged nerves and brain cells takes place in the first year after a stroke, after that it's a matter of learning to live with it. I've already proven him wrong several times over. I'm going to keep trying everything I can to continue the healing. I got excited when I read about the potential nerve-healing properties of the Evening Primrose Oil/ALA combination. If it doesn't make a difference in a couple of months I may try switching to a borage/ALA combination.) I appreciate your input; thanks! SignaturePeter 270/228/180 website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo >| Peter, >| [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >settle for close to the equivalent of close to 1 tblsp of flax oil (14g). >Seems to be working ok as a substitute, without the nasty side effect. I take generic Kirkland brand (aren't all vitamins made in only two places or something like that anyway?) fish oil capsules. 300 for $10, one in the morning, one at night. I've never had any kind of fishy taste. Never even thought about it until I read this post. LCing since 12/01/03- Me- 5'7" 265/219/140 & hubby- 6' 310/239/180 >A few months ago my cousin turned me on to holistic healing through food and >nutritional supplement choices. She lost more than 100 pounds a few years [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Some may laugh at all the supplements I take, but there is a specific >reason and purpose for each. I too have fibromyalgia and take several supplements so I can have an almost normal life. Vitamin C Vitamin B Complex Vitamin E with Selenium Alpha Lipoic Acid Zinc CoQ10 Cordyceps MSM Yeast Defense Michael's Water Balance Magnesium Potassium, as needed Digestive Enzymes Pro-Biotics (acidophilus +) Multi-vitamin and mineral I drink green tea every day and get my omega 3s from 2 T flax seed meal every day. Yvonne > I too have fibromyalgia and take several supplements so I can have an almost > normal life. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I drink green tea every day and get my omega 3s from 2 T flax seed meal every > day. so do you feel that all these supplements really help? have you ever stopped them, one at a time, then readded them, just to see? i'd have to, i'm too curious to take that many pills without knowing for sure that they're working. :-) i have fibro too and get a lot of pain control and excellent sleep with a very small dose of a tricyclic antidepressant. i'm trying the Magnesium for additional pain control because my doc suggested it, but i don't see any result so far. i'll give it a few weeks then stop it to see if there's a difference. i stopped my tricyclic for a few weeks and was in so much pain i couldn't get out of bed, so i know it works well. :-) and LC helps a lot with the digestive issues. yes, i fell off during xmas and found that out the hard way too. -kelly >so do you feel that all these supplements really help? have you ever >stopped them, one at a time, then readded them, just to see? >i'd have to, i'm too curious to take that many pills without knowing for >sure that they're working. :-) yep. At first I took several things at once, just for any improvement. Then I stopped them all and restarted one at a time. Several of those supplements are for specific problems. Example: Magnesium is for an irritable bladder. If I don't take those, I don't pee. Cordyceps is for energy. Much more effective than Nadh. >i have fibro too and get a lot of pain control and excellent sleep with a >very small dose of a tricyclic antidepressant. i'm trying the Magnesium for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >i stopped my tricyclic for a few weeks and was in so much pain i couldn't >get out of bed, so i know it works well. :-) Magnesium never touches my pain. I have a parkensonian response to Elavil so I take flexeril and benedryl to sleep, alternating the two to prevent tolerance. I take Ultram and Excedrin for pain. They don't completely take the pain away, but lower it enough that I can still function. >and LC helps a lot with the digestive issues. yes, i fell off during xmas >and found that out the hard way too. > >-kelly I still have IBS-C. But my episodes are not as severe. I no longer vomit (that is a major plus in my book). LC improved many of my health issues. I am thankful for anything I can get/do to lessen my illness. Yvonne > yep. At first I took several things at once, just for any improvement. Then I > stopped them all and restarted one at a time. Several of those supplements are > for specific problems. Example: Magnesium is for an irritable bladder. If I > don't take those, I don't pee. Cordyceps is for energy. Much more effective > than Nadh. cool, i'm glad they're working for you! > Magnesium never touches my pain. I have a parkensonian response to Elavil so I > take flexeril and benedryl to sleep, alternating the two to prevent tolerance. good plan. i get so sad seeing all the folks with fibro who are addicted to Ambien or something. Have you tried Melatonin? it used to work for me, but interacts poorly with one of my other medications, so i don' t take it anymore. i've also had some success with Valarian, which relaxes the muscles as well as the mind. > I still have IBS-C. But my episodes are not as severe. I no longer vomit > (that is a major plus in my book). yeah, in mine too! > LC improved many of my health issues. I am thankful for anything I can get/do > to lessen my illness. i hear that. -kelly >good plan. i get so sad seeing all the folks with fibro who are addicted to >Ambien or something. Have you tried Melatonin? it used to work for me, but >interacts poorly with one of my other medications, so i don' t take it >anymore. i've also had some success with Valarian, which relaxes the >muscles as well as the mind. >-kelly Ambien was my friend. Best sleep I've ever had with no hangover. Lasted 4 months. Then stopped working entirely. I've tried melatonin, no effect. And I can't get over the 'stinky gym sock' smell of valerian (Mom swears by it). Yvonne Cailleachschilde burbled across the ether: > I've tried melatonin, no effect. And I can't get over the 'stinky > gym sock' smell of valerian (Mom swears by it). I've probably asked you this before.... how much were you taking, and did you try it right after the Ambien stopped working? Signaturerevek www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html lowcarbing since June 2002 5'2" 41 F 165+/too much/size seven petite please I'm all for moderation. Moderation in everything, all the time. But I try not to take it to an extreme. Keith F. Lynch >I've probably asked you this before.... how much were you taking, and >did you try it right after the Ambien stopped working? If you did, I don't remember either. I tried 3 mg of melatonin, then 6. Yes, I tried it after the Ambien. Why? Is there a correlation? Yvonne Cailleachschilde burbled across the ether: >> I've probably asked you this before.... how much were you taking, and >> did you try it right after the Ambien stopped working? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I tried 3 mg of melatonin, then 6. Yes, I tried it after the Ambien. > Why? Is there a correlation? <shrug> Don't know. Did it not work because you didn't feel sleepy or didn't work because you couldn't fall asleep? Melatonin isn't supposed to make you *feel* all that sleepy, like benydril can-- just help your mind shut it's incessant nattering-- no, make that make it easy for you to let go of the nattering and ignore it long enough to fall asleep. Not quite the same thing. The instructions I have say to start with 1g and work your way up to 5g if you need it. I have no information on what drug interactions there are, if any (besides making a certain person's blood sugar rise)-- but there could be a kind of receptor saturation from taking the other stuff right before. Have you tried it again? Signaturerevek www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html lowcarbing since June 2002 5'2" 41 F 165+/too much/size seven petite please "It must be considered that there is nothing more difficult to carry out, nor more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to handle, than to initiate a new order of things. For the reformer has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order. This lukewarmness arising partly from fear of their adversaries, who have the laws in their favor; and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in anything new until they have had actual experience of it." -Niccolo Machiavelli, "The Prince", Chapter 6, 1537 >And I can't get over the 'stinky gym sock' >smell of valerian (Mom swears by it). >Yvonne Non-stinky valerian is available. It comes in the form of a double-coated tablet and even if you put your nose next to the opening of the bottle there isn't any smell to speak of. It is called VALERIAN NIGHTTIME by NATURE'S WAY. There may well be competing non-stinky products, especially from Europe. That was just one I happened to find and try a while ago. || I too have fibromyalgia and take several supplements so I can have an || almost normal life. || <snip> | so do you feel that all these supplements really help? have you ever | stopped them, one at a time, then readded them, just to see? | i'd have to, i'm too curious to take that many pills without knowing for | sure that they're working. :-) This is interesting to me, because I've thought about this myself. I've had such phenomenal results with the combination of low-carb eating and the nutritional supplements that I'm taking, that I wonder sometimes how much is the foods I'm eating, and which of the nutrients are actually helping my weight loss, improving my cholesterol and triglycerides and blood glucose. I've come to the conclusion though, in the old adage: "If it ain't broke,don't fix it!" I decided that since the combination works for me, I don't want to tempt fate by tinkering with it! I'm consider myself so fortunate to have found just the right foods/supplements combination to have such dramatic effects on my health! SignaturePeter 270/228/180 > This is interesting to me, because I've thought about this myself. I've had > such phenomenal results with the combination of low-carb eating and the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > fortunate to have found just the right foods/supplements combination to have > such dramatic effects on my health! in your case, i'd be inclined to agree. what i see too much of is people with fibro, popping supplements that don't seem to help, and continuing to suffer. or people with depression, popping prozac, still as depressed as they've ever been. i've never understood why people take medications/supplements that don't seem to help. i'm a PITA patient too. i want to know everything about a medication and how it works before taking it, and even then if it doesn't work, i'm in there asking for something that will. -kelly :: metta wrote: ::: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] :: fortunate to have found just the right foods/supplements combination :: to have such dramatic effects on my health! -- I'm glad you found what works for you....same for me and others....but the truth is, I don't think we really know what works. So stepping out on faith becomes the only option... This is what I have been taking: Centrum silver (generic) [no iron] Ca/Mg/Zinc Glucosamine/chonondrin MSM Potassium I've been considering adding an omega-3 supplement and maybe an omega-6 supplement, too. What can I take to get two birds, so to speak? I've also been considering adding chromium. What is reccomended? 400-600mcg/day? -- AmyB LC since 12/01/03 238/211/165 > Prior to LC, I rarely took supplements. Now, as part of an overall > plan of improving my health, I'm taking some. I started with a basic [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > carla | This is what I have been taking: | [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] | omega-6 supplement, too. What can I take to get two birds, so to | speak? There are products available that combine Omega 3 & 6. Generally speaking you can find the individual softgels less expensive. Kevin > There are products available that combine Omega 3 & 6. Generally speaking > you can find the individual softgels less expensive. couldn't you just eat more eggs and fish? -kelly || There are products available that combine Omega 3 & 6. Generally || speaking you can find the individual softgels less expensive. | | couldn't you just eat more eggs and fish? | | -kelly You have to eat A LOT of fish to equal the EPA and DHA contained in several fish oil softgels. I believe the same holds true for Borage oil versus vegetable sources. Also don't forget the amount of mercury in fish derived sources of Omega 3 which can be avoided with supplements. Kevin > You have to eat A LOT of fish to equal the EPA and DHA contained in several > fish oil softgels. I believe the same holds true for Borage oil versus > vegetable sources. so what am i missing out on by not taking this supplement? there are so many popular ones now, i can't keep up with what they all do. -kelly > > You have to eat A LOT of fish to equal the EPA and DHA contained in > several [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > so what am i missing out on by not taking this supplement? there are so > many popular ones now, i can't keep up with what they all do. http://www.fatsforhealth.com/introduction/index.php > > so what am i missing out on by not taking this supplement? there are so > > many popular ones now, i can't keep up with what they all do. > > http://www.fatsforhealth.com/introduction/index.php i'm sorry, i should have phrased that differently. i eat plenty of "fatty" fish, have a slice of sprouted flax seed bread each day, eat eggs and avocados and olive oil and all that yummy stuff. i have no family history of cardiovascular disease, rheumatoid arthritis, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, etc, and have never shown any risk factors for the above. do i really *need* a supplement for this? -kelly | i'm sorry, i should have phrased that differently. | [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] | | -kelly Well... depends... Are you a person who wears a seat belt just in case? Do you never ride a bicycle without a helmet? Are you satisfied with likely avoiding debilitating disease or do you want to try cutting edge ideas to live a healthier and longer life? No guarantees in any of this, YMMV. Kevin > Well... depends... > Are you a person who wears a seat belt just in case? Do you never ride a > bicycle without a helmet? Are you satisfied with likely avoiding > debilitating disease or do you want to try cutting edge ideas to live a > healthier and longer life? No guarantees in any of this, YMMV. how about this: i ride a motorcycle, but wear a helmet. i know it's a risky behavior and i take a moderate amount of precaution against injury. but no, i don't lock myself up in a bubble, hoping to avoid the flu. :-) -kelly ||| so what am i missing out on by not taking this supplement? there ||| are so many popular ones now, i can't keep up with what they all do. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] | | -kelly Well... depends... Are you a person who wears a seat belt just in case? Do you never ride a bicycle without a helmet? Are you satisfied with likely avoiding debilitating disease or do you want to try cutting edge ideas to live a healthier and longer life? No guarantees in any of this, YMMV. Kevin > > > so what am i missing out on by not taking this supplement? there are so > > > many popular ones now, i can't keep up with what they all do. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > do i really *need* a supplement for this? it's already been pointed out that you'd need to eat a fair amount of fish to equal what you get in the supplements. if you want to know more, do some research. links have been provided to you. > it's already been pointed out that you'd need to eat a fair amount of > fish to equal what you get in the supplements. i know that. and i understand that. my question was do i really need the amount i would get in supplements. sorry i wasn't more clear. > if you want to know more, do some research. links have been provided to > you. yes ma'am! -kelly > > it's already been pointed out that you'd need to eat a fair amount of > > fish to equal what you get in the supplements. > > i know that. and i understand that. my question was do i really need the > amount i would get in supplements. sorry i wasn't more clear. it's debatable whether there is any reason to take *any* supplement. in the end, it has to be a personal decision. myself, i prefer to take a few of them and err on the side of caution. your mileage, as always, may vary. > > if you want to know more, do some research. links have been provided to > > you. > > yes ma'am! ;) ||| You have to eat A LOT of fish to equal the EPA and DHA contained in ||| several fish oil softgels. I believe the same holds true for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | | http://www.fatsforhealth.com/introduction/index.php Here are a few selected resources but far from comprehensive: http://www.mercola.com/2002/mar/16/omega3.htm http://www.willner.com/referenc.htm http://www.drhoffman.com/page.cfm/293 Dr Hoffman is a very good source of information. If you have a chance listen to him on WOR radio over the internet or select a local radio station: http://www.drhoffman.com/page.cfm/53 Book: Dr Atkins Age Defying Diet Book: Dr Atkins Vita-Nutrient Solution Kevin I take daily: 1 generic multi-vitamin with no iron 2 fish oil capsules 1 low-strength aspirin 2 magnesium I have a problem with extrasystole, that is the reason for the magnesium. I've had the extrasystole for a lot of years, and have been told that it is nothing to worry about at all, but it is still very uncomfortable. With low-carb, the extrasystole seems to be more pronounced and occur more often. I don't know if it is just coincidence or if there is actually something about my low-carb diet that exacerbates the extrasystole. On low-carb, sometimes I get the extrasystole 30 times per minute or so, very uncomfortable! With the added magnesium, I go days without a single extrasystole beat. At first I was taking 3 magnesiums per day, but that would fairly consistently give me diarrhea. Two per day seems to be the magic key for me. Mark. > Prior to LC, I rarely took supplements. Now, as part of an overall > plan of improving my health, I'm taking some. I started with a basic [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > carla > I thought it would be interesting to learn what supplements people are > taking and gather them all in one thread for discussion. Low Carb Isopure (protein shake with supplements in it) Twinlab Dualtabs (multi-vitamin and mineral) Freeda timed release Vitamin C (Linus Pauling made it to his 90s) L-Glutamine (makes my brain work better) Vitamin D (I don't get much sun.) Aspirin (statistical cardiovascular benefit) Culturelle (acidophilus GG.) (displaces nasty flora & gives me more energy than my youth) I'm planning to add Walnut oil as an EFA source. (I hate fishy stuff, even in a capsule.) >I thought it would be interesting to learn what supplements people are >taking and gather them all in one thread for discussion. Multivitamin, no iron, no beta carotine B&C vitamins - C, niacin, B1, 2, 6, & 12 also - Aspirin, Lipitor, Altace, Metformin -- Jean M. New food of the week: water chestnuts Do away with flipfloping to e-mail. > Prior to LC, I rarely took supplements. Now, as part of an overall > plan of improving my health, I'm taking some. Notice the dichotomy there. It sounds like prior to going LC you were not yet as interested in general health issues. Since the typical low carb food has at least in theory enough nutrients it sohuldn't be strictly necessary to take supplements. Really, supplements are a general health issue for *everyone* not an issue specific to low carbers. I started taking supplements long ago, well before I started low carbing. My assortment has evolved over the years. One reason to supplement is modern argiculture methods. Fields are fertilized for maximum plant growth not maximum nutrition. You never know if the veggie you are about to eat is actually deficient in some of the minerals you think it should have, so minerals can be supplemented assuming you won't get enough from farmed food. You should know that the veggie you are about to eat is being selectively bred for production not for the amount of vitamins it carries, so vitamins can be supplemented assuming you don't get enough from farmed food. In both cases even if you eat good variety, just in case. My current multi is generic marked "compare with Theragram M". I consider Centrum to be on the border of acceptible and Theragram M is a step up, so I go for a generic equivalant. I looked around for ones without D or iron, and this one is missing one of the two. Close enough, shrug. There are 3-4 items that so much is needed they won't fit in a multi: C 500 mg. I should take more but it is far over the minumum. Cal/Mag/Zinc without D. The zinc part could fit in a multi but I'm male so I benefit from extra. 3 tablets of 333mg calcium with matching magnesium daily, 2 morning 1 night to aid digestion. Potassium - Lite Salt on the table. I try to use a tsp daily. 1 gram fish oil - In case I don't have enough seafood that week by mistake. E, Beta Carotene - Extra antioxidants beyond the multi. 500 mg niacin after reading about fine tuning cholesterol. Caprilic acid - I had a yeast overgrowth after antibiotics a while ago and this is supposed to keep it from ever coming back. :: carla wrote: ::: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] :: well before I started low carbing. My assortment has evolved over :: the years. True...but for many, going LC means paying attention to improving health. So, in that sense, taking supplements is part of improving health. It is no surprise that people who didn't formerly watch diet and get exercise, but who are now addressing those issues, would also now consider taking supplements. >True...but for many, going LC means paying attention to improving health. I think that may be because for many going LC was not *just* a weight-loss attempt, but a way to fix other problems. (cholesterol, blood pressure, blood sugar, acid reflux, you name it!) Some may "do Atkins" to drop 20lbs, and don't think beyond that. But many (and I'd say a higher concentration are here) were sick and tired of being sick and tired. So we're not just eating LC, we're exercising, taking supplements, and doing whatever else we can to improve our selves. Personally, I've been to hell, and am on the road back. I don't plan on visiting again in this lifetime. LCing since 12/01/03- Me- 5'7" 265/219/140 & hubby- 6' 310/238/180 > > Prior to LC, I rarely took supplements. Now, as part of an overall > > plan of improving my health, I'm taking some. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > general health issue for *everyone* not an issue specific to low > carbers. I agree with all of this. I used to try to take a multi even when I was not watching what I eat, but I could never get into the habit because I was generally less concious of what I was putting in my pie-hole. What's happened since then is that I am thinking more about my health, so in addition to changing the diet I have added the supplements. It is not at all a case of thinking I need the supplements now because something is missing from my diet that used to be there. carla After reading this thread, I decided to add a few supplements to my daily intake. Acidophilus, because we can all use good bacteria. Evening primrose oil, since I get plenty omega-3, but not enough omega-6. And Coenzyme Q10, just to see what it does. Not as expensive as I had thought. Costco has 120 50mg softgels for about $13. I'll take one twice a day and see if it makes a difference. It's funny, I was looking for one of those pill cases you can line up a day's pills in, and none were big enough! Oh well, better a handful of vitamins today than a truckload of prescriptions tomorrow, right? LCing since 12/01/03- Me- 5'7" 265/219/140 & hubby- 6' 310/238/180 > After reading this thread, I decided to add a few supplements to my daily > intake. Acidophilus, because we can all use good bacteria. > :-) > Evening primrose > oil, since I get plenty omega-3, but not enough omega-6. The omega-6 thought occurred to me too. I've been taking Flax Oil (and occasionally eating flax) so I know I have the omega-3's in hand, but I might add an omega-6 supplement as well. Mr. carla will laugh at me - he thinks my current small handful of supplements is bordering upon vitamin-weirdo territory already! :-) carla > > After reading this thread, I decided to add a few supplements to my daily > > intake. Acidophilus, because we can all use good bacteria. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > thinks my current small handful of supplements is bordering upon > vitamin-weirdo territory already! :-) you might want to check out something like the Total EFA - that way you aren't takeing sixty-gazillion extra capsules daily: http://www.webvitamins.com/product.aspx?id=4454 >Prior to LC, I rarely took supplements. Now, as part of an overall >plan of improving my health, I'm taking some. I started with a basic [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >carla You are correct about Chromium Picolinate being useless, bordering on dangerous. Some people I know have shown some results on Glucosamine, and IMO you would do better with plain ole Fish Oil for your Omega-3s. (I switched) Sleepy --------------------------------- The True Axis of Evil Bush - Cheney - Ashcroft - Rumsfeld --------------------------------- This psuedo-information/advice is coming from someone who doesn't know the difference between ephedra and ephedrine? Best to disregard it. > You are correct about Chromium Picolinate being useless, bordering on > dangerous. Some people I know have shown some results on Glucosamine, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Bush - Cheney - Ashcroft - Rumsfeld > --------------------------------- > IMO you would do better with plain ole Fish Oil for your Omega-3s. > (I switched) Why do you prefer Fish Oil to Flax Oil? carla |
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