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Weight Loss Forum / Low Carb / March 2004went off LC plan, now afraid of being T2...
Hi, after 4 months I decided to go off-plan for one day - I planned it for a long time and deffered it for more than month, but in the end I did it today. (Just to suggest it was not cheating, I just wanted to have this experience and even if I am not at my target yet, I am pretty close and my BMI is already about 24 (down from 29)). So today I started with slice of bread, 22g of sugar-full candy and then a couple of unfreezed christmas cookies, then some grapes and mandarines. I would estimate it to ~100g high GI food. Then I have gone for usuall morning walk with our dogs - and soon after started to feel dizzy like being drunk 2 hours later, my hands started to shake a little (but I was not dizzy anymore). OK, off-plan is off-plan, so for lunch I had only meal I was really craving - beans+onions+chicken, with some beer. As soon as during the lunch, I started sweating a lot and felt really bad. OTOH, it stopped 40 minutes later and now I am OK, just my hands are starting to shake a little bit again and also some muscles are shaking too. During 4 months, I think my daily average was about 60g carbs/day. Actually, now thinking about it, I can remember some of these syndroms before I started LC, but I did not considered them as something not normal. Now some hypothesis of what hapened - I was feeling dizzy in the begining because after 4 months, my body was not ready to release as much insulin so my BG gone up. Also, brain was switching from ketones to glucose. 2 hours later, insulin was overshoot, so my BG went down (anyway I did not felt any cravings, so I am not sure this theory is right...). As for sweating during meal, I believe it can be associated with suddendly high insulin production (my body perhaps learns quite fast :). As I am now, things may be somewhat normalized, anyway I really wonder when I will start craving more food - for me that would be a sign proving my theories to be right. So if I am right, I am "only" experiencing metabolic syndrom. I must say I experienced several hypos before LC, but not too much often. If I am wrong, then hand-shaking is actually caused by high BG rather than low - that would indicate T2... not that it would change a lot, but it might be hard to find a doctor in my counter who would supported me in treating T2 by LC. For those suggesting to see a doctor - you are right, I have blood tests sheduled for june. I will ask for blood glucose and h1bac eventually, or perhaps GTT. Well, as for other experiences, I hoped that carb-up might improve my excersise capacity - but it apparently did not happened - still at 25 pushups, unable to go higher... (but maybe I had to wait longer to recharge my glycogen stores...) So this is my story :) I am quite unsure I will be able even to finish this off-plan day, I want my veggies, fat and protein back! More important, I want my stable "LC body" back, without sweating, shaking and feeling dizzy... Mirek P.S.: I apologize for my grammar, I was not born in english speaking country and most of my language knowledge came from reading c.s. literature :) Mirek, When you low carb and then reintroduce a lot of carbs suddenly, your body will be highly insulin resistant. This is true even of normal people. The effect wears off in 2 days or so. According to Lyle MacDonald's book, the explanation may have something to do with your body not making some enzymes it needs to digest the carbs. It starts making them again, and you are fine. The best approach to carbing up is to go slowly!! Add 10 grams a day for a week then add 10 more. If you're impatient, add 20 grams a day more each week The feeling you get is probably an insulin surge. The shakiness also happens when you get a reactive low after the insulin takes care of things. That you did so well on a low carb diet suggests that you may have marginal blood sugar, but I would not panic. http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/risk.htm discusses how to test your own blood and what to look for. Give yourself a few days of carbing up before you test to let your body acclimate. -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.2. Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes, strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > country and most of my language knowledge came from reading c.s. > literature :) > When you low carb and then reintroduce a lot of carbs suddenly, your body > will be highly insulin resistant. This is true even of normal people. The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > do with your body not making some enzymes it needs to digest the carbs. It > starts making them again, and you are fine. Well, actually now 2 hours after that "crash" I fell OK again, although not so good as during LC. So maybe there is some insuline sensitivity left in my tissues after all, but I definitely experience insulin/blood swings. Having "LC-stable body" is much better. > The best approach to carbing up is to go slowly!! Add 10 grams a day for a > week then add 10 more. If you're impatient, add 20 grams a day more each > week Actually, since the begining I take my LC WOE as kind of experiment too. So I just needed "more data", and that included "shock" carb-up. Now I know what happens and will be prepared better next time... So I would say it really was valuable experience. > The feeling you get is probably an insulin surge. The shakiness also > happens when you get a reactive low after the insulin takes care of things. OK, that is what I thought. Thank you for calming me down :) > That you did so well on a low carb diet suggests that you may have marginal > blood sugar, but I would not panic. Yes, that is probably true. Last time tested (one year before LC), my BG was higher, but within that "safe" range. > http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/risk.htm discusses how to test your > own blood and what to look for. Yes, you excellent page is well known to me. Thank you for doing great job helping us! Mirek I think it's wal-mart that sells the inexpensive BG meter and strips. Checking on your own can help ease your mind....and if you are pre-diabetic or whatnot, knowing asap is a good idea.... ::: When you low carb and then reintroduce a lot of carbs suddenly, ::: your body will be highly insulin resistant. This is true even of [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] :: :: Mirek > I think it's wal-mart that sells the inexpensive BG meter and strips. No wal-mart around :) I am in Czech republic (central Europe). > Checking on your own can help ease your mind....and if you are pre-diabetic > or whatnot, knowing asap is a good idea.... Actually, nothing bad happened since the lunch - after some more bread, cookies and definitely nonLC amount of high sugar fruits, I feel quite good. No more sweating and hand-shaking. So I have just panicked as usuall (last time I thought I have a gout :) Only difference I can mention right now is that my brain does feel somewhat different - not as focused as on LC. So perhaps these rumours about ketones being better fuel for brain are true. One thing is strange - I expected cravings and they did not come. I expected water gain and so far my weight if anything lowered. We will see tommorow - perhaps these "body confusion", "carb-up" and "reversal diet" theories really work... Mirek > We will > see tommorow - perhaps these "body confusion", "carb-up" and "reversal > diet" theories really work... They do for me. Mirek, I usually see the water weight gain the second and third day. But it is a very good idea when you maintain to maintain at the weight with the water rather than without. That way you don't make yourself crazy with the daily fluctuations that happen when you stay right at the edge of the level where water weight comes back on. -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.2. Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes, strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm > > I think it's wal-mart that sells the inexpensive BG meter and strips. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Mirek Question Jenny, Why would we *want* to carb up after being low carb for a long time? We would want to carb up after a long time of low carbing because: 1. Long time low carbing depresses the metabolism for some of us. I've run into this in the past, and it is happening to me again, 1 1/2 years in. If I don't carb up my metabolisms gets progressively slower. I recently completely 2 weeks of eating very low carb at a calorie level that is lower than my maintenance calories and not only didn't I lose a pound, I ended up feeling so dead it was not worth it. Dr. Bernstein acknowledges that this is a problem with long term low carbing and prescribes thyroid medicine for it. It would be better, I think to avoid taking out your thyroid if your blood sugar can take a rise. 2. Carbing up to moderate levels after you reach your goal can prevent long term diet burn-out. You may be enthusiastic about this WOE now, but in 2 or 3 years things change. What you don't want to do is crash off the diet and regain all the weight--a pattern reported by far too many once-successful low carbers. Controlled moderate carb-ups can prevent this from happening for many people. -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.2. Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes, strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm > Question Jenny, > Why would we *want* to carb up after being low carb for a long time? > We would want to carb up after a long time of low carbing because: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > low carbers. Controlled moderate carb-ups can prevent this from happening > for many people. Jenny, may I ask you, just what is wrong with a slowing down metabolism. What symptoms of it do you not like? i Ig, What symptoms I don't like are these: Over the last thee months I've been slowly gaining weight while eating at a calorie level that is the same or a bit lower than what I was eating all last spring when the weight was coming off and all summer and fall when I was maintaining. When I tried cutting my calories and carbs back even more for a quite a few weeks to see if I could knock off the weight, it did not result in any weight loss but it did result in my feeling like dead dog meat. My body seems to have decided sometime last winter that it needed to hibernate to conserve my remaining fat. I'm always falling asleep and freezing and my skin is drying out too. Classic thyroid symptoms. -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.2. Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes, strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm > > We would want to carb up after a long time of low carbing because: > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > i > We would want to carb up after a long time of low carbing because: > > 1. Long time low carbing depresses the metabolism for some of us. When I started lo-carbing, the twenty pounds that I had put on suddenly for no apparent reason (no one believed me, but then it turned out this is a common symptom of PCOS, which I have to some degree) came right off, and I maintained the weight easily for almost a year. But pretty much at the one-year anniversary of starting lo-carbing, five pounds popped back on when I wasn't doing much of anything different. Actually, I was hoping I was pregnant and started charting in FitDay, and I was surprised at how low my caloric intake was, and in the middle of all this, five extra pounds. So, Jenny, does carbing up for awhile and then going back low carb help with this? I'm on a meat/fat/egg fast right now for the Days of AF, to see if that will break through the stall...... >But pretty much at the one-year anniversary of starting lo-carbing, >five pounds popped back on when I wasn't doing much of anything >different. Actually, I was hoping I was pregnant and started charting >in FitDay, and I was surprised at how low my caloric intake was, and >in the middle of all this, five extra pounds. In "Permanent Results Without Permanent Dieting" (the Curves book, I see it at Costco all the time) he has an interesting process to raise your metabolism through gaining and losing 5 pounds repeatedly. I've seen it work for some people, you might want to check it out. > >>But pretty much at the one-year anniversary of starting lo-carbing, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > through gaining and losing 5 pounds repeatedly. I've seen it work for some > people, you might want to check it out. Would it be proper to say that this gaining/losing 5 lbs can be accomplished by period fasting? When I fast, I usually lose about 3 lbs if I fast for one whole day (36 hours meal to meal). I suppose that fasting for 2 days could make me lose 5 lbs. I fast every thursday. I do believe now that it does improve my insulin sensitivity. i >Would it be proper to say that this gaining/losing 5 lbs can be >accomplished by period fasting? I don't think so? I wish I still knew where my book was. He has a specific method of feeding up, and then losing while watching your weight VERY carefully. (as in EVERY day) Basically it takes you longer and longer to gain those 5 pounds (with the set amount of higher calories) until you just don't anymore. LCing since 12/01/03- Me- 5'7" 265/219/140 & hubby- 6' 310/238/180 Gaining and attempting to lose 5 real pounds would be a very dangerous strategy for a middle aged woman to try. I have been trying to lose 3 lbs for the past three months and finding it completely impossible. When I went off low carb a couple years ago I gained 10 lbs very quickly and they would not come off at all. Not even with a return to strict low carbing. I had to stay off low carb for almost a year to get back to where I could lose weight, and it was probably because I took a drug that helped for a while that I could lose. But meanwhile all the time I spent when I was fat with higher than normal blood sugars did a job on my blood pressure that has not reversed with weight loss. -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.2. Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes, strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm > >Would it be proper to say that this gaining/losing 5 lbs can be > >accomplished by period fasting? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Me- 5'7" 265/219/140 > & hubby- 6' 310/238/180 You can't lose 3 pounds? You've got to be an idiot.  SignatureMost of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :) Becky P. > Gaining and attempting to lose 5 real pounds would be a very dangerous > strategy for a middle aged woman to try. I have been trying to lose 3 lbs [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Me- 5'7" 265/219/140 > > & hubby- 6' 310/238/180 > Gaining and attempting to lose 5 real pounds would be a very dangerous > strategy for a middle aged woman to try. I have been trying to lose 3 lbs > for the past three months and finding it completely impossible. Reporting in on my "Days of Aunt Flo Meat Fast" -- DH and I each lost 4 lbs (though 2 lbs of mine was the weight I'd put on from the GTT, I think, which may not really count that much). I think we'll try this each month and see if we can break through our lowest weight -- we've both stalled out at a weight that we'd been at for awhile in the past. Lee, I had hoped that carbing up and keeping calories the same would avoid slow down, but clearly it hasn't. But even when I carb up, I don't go much over 80g because I try to keep my diabetic blood sugars normal. In the past when I ran into the same problem after 3 years of low carbing, I tried super-carbing up (with a diabetes med) and keeping calories low and put on 10 pounds so fast it wasn't funny. Then I put on another 10 pounds and ended up with out of control blood pressure. I don't want to try that again! My doctor took one look at me today and said I really did not look like myself at all, so he ordered a bunch of tests, including Free T3 and some stuff for the parathyroid (since I've been having a bunch o f bone problems). I'll know if they showed anything in a week. -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.2. Cut the carbs to respond to my email address! Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes, strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm > > We would want to carb up after a long time of low carbing because: > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > help with this? I'm on a meat/fat/egg fast right now for the Days of > AF, to see if that will break through the stall...... >Mirek, /snip/ >That you did so well on a low carb diet suggests that you may have marginal >blood sugar, but I would not panic. >http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/risk.htm discusses how to test your >own blood and what to look for. Here's a list of several kinds of hypoglycemia. It might be good to add "Relative Hypoglycemia" to your list. I've been confused because I can be feeling a rush or a crash at the same 'absolute' number, depending on whether the BG is going up or down. http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/articles/what_is_hypo.html There are several forms that the hypoglycemic syndrome can take and we will adopt Dr. Samra's classification; Type 1, Relative Hypoglycemia. Following ingestion of glucose the blood sugar level rises unusually high (due to insulin resistance) and then suddenly drops. The rate of descent should be over 2.6mm/L (45 mg/100mL) in any hour, or over 1.6mm/l (30mg/100mL) in any 1/2 hour. Type 2, Absolute Hypoglycemia. This is any blood glucose recorded below the lower limit of 3.4mm/L (60mg/100mL). Type 3, Combined Hypoglycemia. This is also known as Reactive Hypoglycemia. Here the blood sugar level not only drops suddenly, but goes below the lower limit. [snipping the rest] Skinny -- pre-diab hypo |
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